Mistral News thread

Serbia Forever 2 wrote:I don't think Russia should buy this ship. Russia should use the money on it's air force or air defense. Navy should be the last focus. Or build their own ship, givening jobs to it's people, besides Russis makes better ships than France.

Oh and Turck, Russia is not worse than West in every sector. Only some in navel sector. Russia overall though is the most powerful country on earth!

Also it's building five new aircraft carriers! How many is Turkey building?

Serbia, I wouldn't start this dialouge with Turk , its useless! Save your time!

Moscow could hold tender for helicopter carrier - source
RIA Novosti
22/12/200914:49
MOSCOW, December 22 (RIA Novosti) - Russia could soon call a tender to buy a Mistral-class helicopter carrier, a defense industry source said on Tuesday.

He said "companies from several countries" would participate in the tender, mentioning specifically France, The Netherlands, and Spain.

He also said consultations were ongoing with France on the possible sale of a French warship.

"The Russian side reiterated its position that it needs not just one warship but technology to enable it to build such ships at Russian shipyards," he said.

He said consultations would continue not only with France but also with a number of other countries that had the relevant technology.

The chief of the General Staff earlier said that Russia would decide by the end of 2009 whether to purchase a Mistral-class amphibious assault ship from France.

The Defense Ministry has said a final decision should be based on "a thorough assessment of the effectiveness of [French] technology in the framework of domestic shipbuilding program."

Industry officials have said it is "senseless and wrong" to speak of buying weapon systems for the Navy without obtaining appropriate advanced technology for their subsequent production in Russia.

Deputy Prime Minister Igor Sechin said in late November that Russia could build its own helicopter carrier on a par with the French Mistral-class warship, and that the Defense Ministry could contract the United Shipbuilding Corporation to build it.

The Russian military earlier announced that it was considering buying one of the Mistral-class ships, worth 400-500 million euros (around $600-$750 mln), and potentially building three or four vessels of the same class in partnership with the French naval shipbuilder DCNS.

A Mistral-class ship is capable of transporting and deploying 16 helicopters, four landing barges, up to 70 vehicles including 13 battle tanks, and 450 soldiers. The vessel is equipped with a 69-bed hospital and can be used as an amphibious command ship.

Many Russian military and industry experts have questioned the financial and military sense of the purchase.

Russia's current arms procurement program through 2015 does not provide for construction or purchases of large warships, so the acquisition of a French warship is more likely under a new program, through 2020, which has yet to be developed.



http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/russia/2009/russia-091222-rianovosti04.htm

France approves sale of Mistral warship to Russia

RIA Novosti

08/02/201018:33

PARIS/MOSCOW, February 8 (RIA Novosti) - France has agreed to sell Russia a Mistral-class amphibious assault ship and received an order to build another three, Radio France Internationale reported Monday.

"It's no longer one command ship, but four," Jacques de Lajugie, head of international sales at the French Defense Ministry, was quoted as saying.

He added, however, that the new order was being examined "on a technical level" and needed to be "vetted at a political level."

Originally it was thought Russia would buy one of the vessels and build up to four more under license.

Moscow has yet to officially confirm the agreement.

The radio station said the report coincided with the Defense Ministry's announcement earlier on Monday that French arms sales reached 7.95 billion euros in 2009, 21% higher than 2008.

Russian industry officials have said it would be "senseless and wrong" to speak of buying weapon systems for the Navy without obtaining appropriate advanced technology for their subsequent production in Russia.

Deputy Prime Minister Igor Sechin said in late November that Russia could build its own helicopter carrier on a par with the Mistral-class warship, and that the Defense Ministry could contract the United Shipbuilding Corporation to build it.

The Russian military earlier announced that it was considering buying one of the Mistral-class ships, worth 400-500 million euros (around $600-$750 million), and potentially building three or four vessels of the same class in partnership with the French naval shipbuilder DCNS.

A Mistral-class ship is capable of transporting and deploying 16 helicopters, four landing barges, up to 70 vehicles including 13 battle tanks, and 450 soldiers. The vessel is equipped with a 69-bed hospital and can be used as an amphibious command ship.

Many Russian military and industry experts have questioned the financial and military sense of the purchase.

Russia's current arms procurement program through 2015 does not provide for construction or purchases of large warships, so the acquisition of the French warship is more likely under a new program, through 2020, which has yet to be finalized.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/russia/2010/russia-100208-rianovosti01.htm

Russia still weighing Mistral warship options - security chief

RIA Novosti

09/02/201016:45

MOSCOW, February 9 (RIA Novosti) - The Russian leadership is still considering whether to buy a Mistral-class amphibious assault ship from France or to build a similar ship domestically, Russia's top security official said Tuesday.

France said on Monday it had agreed to sell Russia a Mistral-class warship, worth 400-500 million euros (around $600-$750 million), despite concerns of some of Russia's former Soviet bloc allies, including those now in NATO, that the sale could threaten regional security.

"We could build a ship of this class on our own, but this will take time, or we could buy it abroad, but it will cost a lot of money," Secretary of Russia's Security Council Nikolai Patrushev said at a news conference in RIA Novosti.

"It would be premature to speculate now about which decision will be adopted, but both of them should be studied," Patrushev said.

A source close to the Kremlin said on Tuesday the decision on Mistral would be taken on the highest political level in the near future, possibly before the visit of Russian President Dmitry Medvedev to France at the beginning of March.

A Mistral-class ship is capable of transporting and deploying 16 helicopters, four landing barges, up to 70 vehicles including 13 battle tanks, and 450 soldiers. The vessel is equipped with a 69-bed hospital and can be used as an amphibious command ship.

Despite strong opposition in the Russian defense industry, the military has insisted Russia needed Mistral-class warships to modernize its aging fleet of combat surface ships.

"If a positive decision is taken, the first vessels of this class will be deployed in Russia Far East to strengthen the Pacific Fleet which has suffered the most in the 1990s due to the lack of funds for ship repairs," a Russian military source told RIA Novosti on Tuesday.

The military has also said a Mistral-class warship would have allowed the Russian Navy to conduct a more efficient operation in the Black Sea during the Russia-Georgia war.

However, some military experts say Russia has no need for such a vessel, and many believe that Russia simply wants to gain access to advanced naval technology that could be used in potential future conflicts with NATO and its allies.

If the deal goes through, it would be the first sale of a major piece of military equipment by a NATO member to Russia.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/russia/2010/russia-100209-rianovosti02.htm

French president defends sale of Mistral warship to Russia

RIA Novosti

09/02/201012:47

MOSCOW, February 9 (RIA Novosti) - French President Nicolas Sarkozy has defended his decision to allow the sale of a Mistral-class amphibious assault ship to Russia by saying it would not threaten regional security, the Daily Herald reported.

The potential sale has alarmed some of Russia's former Soviet bloc allies, including those now in NATO, especially after the Russia-Georgia conflict over South Ossetia in August 2008.

Sarkozy told U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates at a brief meeting on Monday that in his opinion the sale did not pose a military problem because Russia should be treated as a real partner.

"One cannot expect Russia to behave as a partner if we don't treat it as one," Sarkozy said.

Russia earlier announced that it was considering buying one of the Mistral-class ships, worth 400-500 million euros (around $600-$750 million), and potentially building three or four vessels of the same class in partnership with the French naval shipbuilder DCNS.

A Mistral-class ship is capable of transporting and deploying 16 helicopters, four landing barges, up to 70 vehicles including 13 battle tanks, and 450 soldiers. The vessel is equipped with a 69-bed hospital and can be used as an amphibious command ship.

The Russian military has claimed that a Mistral-class warship would have allowed the Russian Navy to conduct a more efficient operation in the Black Sea during the Russia-Georgia war.

However, many experts believe that Russia simply wants to gain access to advanced naval technology that could be used in the future in potential conflicts with NATO and its allies.

French Defense Minister Herve Morin said on Monday it was time to turn the page on Cold War-era antagonisms with Russia and start a new relationship with Moscow through new exchanges.

If the deal goes through, it would be the first sale of a major piece of military equipment by a NATO member to Russia.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/news/2010/02/mil-100209-rianovosti02.htm

France expects Russian decision soon on buying Mistral warship

RIA Novosti

18/02/201012:09

NEW DELHI, February 18 (RIA Novosti) - French naval shipbuilder DCNS said on Thursday it expected to receive a final answer from Russia soon on buying a Mistral-class helicopter carrier.

"The company is interested in cooperation with Russia. Now we are waiting only for a political decision. We believe we'll receive an answer from Moscow soon," Benoit de la Bigne, a DCNS executive, said.

The Russian military earlier announced that it was considering buying one of the Mistral-class amphibious assault ships, worth 400-500 million euros (around $540-$675 mln), and potentially building three or four vessels of the same class in partnership with the French naval shipbuilder DCNS.

A Mistral-class ship is capable of transporting and deploying 16 helicopters, four landing barges, up to 70 vehicles including 13 battle tanks, and 450 soldiers. The vessel is equipped with a 69-bed hospital and can be used as an amphibious command ship.

Many Russian military and industry experts have questioned the financial and military sense of the purchase.

Russia's current arms procurement program through 2015 does not provide for the construction or purchases of large warships, so the acquisition of a French warship is more likely under a new program, through 2020, which has yet to be developed.

The executive also said that India was displaying interest as well in buying a Mistral-class warship.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/russia/2010/russia-100218-rianovosti02.htm

Russia to use Mistral-class carrier as command ship - source

RIA Novosti

26/02/201013:24

MOSCOW, February 26 (RIA Novosti) - If Moscow buys a Mistral-class helicopter carrier from France, it will be used principally as an amphibious command ship, a Russian Defense Ministry source said on Friday.

The official said the Mistral was basically a "force projection" command ship for various task groups or combined-arms forces operating at sea.

He stressed that from the Russian Navy's perspective, the ship's capability for amphibious assault operations is an important but not principal function.

The Russian military earlier announced that it was considering buying one of the Mistral-class amphibious assault ships, worth 400-500 million euros (around $540-$675 million), and potentially building three or four vessels of the same class in partnership with the French naval shipbuilder DCNS. The French government has approved the sale but Russia has not yet made a final decision.

There are concerns that Russia could use the warship for amphibious assault operations against Georgia, and the Russian military has said such a vessel would have allowed the Russian Navy to conduct a more efficient operation in the Black Sea during the August 2008 Russia-Georgia war

Speaking in London on February 18, Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili criticized the French authorities for approving the possible sale to Russia.

A Mistral-class ship is capable of transporting and deploying 16 helicopters, four landing barges, up to 70 armored vehicles including 13 battle tanks, and 450 personnel.

Many Russian military and industry experts have questioned the financial and military sense of the purchase, and some believe that Russia simply wants to gain access to advanced naval technology that could be used in the future in potential conflicts with NATO and its allies.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/russia/2010/russia-100226-rianovosti04.htm

Moscow continues talks with Paris on warship deal

RIA Novosti

26/02/201019:16

February 26 (RIA Novosti) - Moscow and Paris have yet to clinch a deal on the purchase of a French warship and it will not be signed during the Russian president's visit to France on March 1-3, a source in the Russian Defense Ministry said Friday.

The official said Russia would like to buy one Mistral-class ship and that "subsequently, we would like to use their know-how, jointly with France, to build another three."

"We would like to buy such a helicopter carrier and continue cooperation... and continue building [such ships] here [in Russia]," he said.

The Russian military earlier announced that it was considering buying one of the Mistral-class amphibious assault ships, worth 400-500 million euros (around $540-$675 million), and potentially building three or four vessels of the same class in partnership with the French naval shipbuilder DCNS. The French government has approved the sale but Russia has not yet made a final decision.

The Defense Ministry source said earlier in the day that if Moscow buys a Mistral-class carrier from France, it will be used principally as an amphibious command ship. He said the Mistral was basically a "force projection" command ship for various task groups or combined-arms forces operating at sea.

He stressed that from the Russian Navy's perspective, the ship's capability for amphibious assault operations is an important but not the principal function.

There are concerns that Russia could use the warship for amphibious assault operations against Georgia, and the Russian military has said such a vessel would have allowed the Russian Navy to conduct a more efficient operation in the Black Sea during the August 2008 Russia-Georgia war

Speaking in London on February 18, Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili criticized the French authorities for approving the possible sale to Russia.

A Mistral-class ship is capable of transporting and deploying 16 helicopters, four landing barges, up to 70 armored vehicles including 13 battle tanks, and 450 personnel.

Many Russian military and industry experts have questioned the financial and military sense of the purchase, and some believe that Russia simply wants to gain access to advanced naval technology that could be used in the future in potential conflicts with NATO and its allies.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/russia/2010/russia-100226-rianovosti02.htm

Russian lawmaker questions plans for Mistral purchase

RIA Novosti

10/03/201016:51

MOSCOW, March 10 (RIA Novosti) - Plans to buy an expensive helicopter carrier from France could hinder the development of Russia's defense industry, a Russian lawmaker said on Wednesday.

The Russian military has announced that it was negotiating the purchase of a Mistral-class amphibious assault ship from France, worth 400-500 million euros (around $540-$675 million), and potentially building three or four vessels of the same class in partnership with the French naval shipbuilder DCNS.

"Can't we build ships ourselves anymore?" Svetlana Savitskaya, an MP from the communist faction, queried at a parliament session.

The former Soviet cosmonaut accused the government officials of lobbying the deal in favor of foreign manufacturers and said Russia had vast experience in manufacturing sophisticated military equipment, including ships and nuclear submarines.

"A slow process of purchases of military hardware abroad has started, which could have a negative impact on Russia's defense potential," Savitskaya said, adding that Russia has already bought reconnaissance drones from Israel while domestic companies have not been able so far to develop comparable equipment.

In response to Savitskaya's criticism, Russian Deputy Prime Minister Sergei Ivanov said Russia had no choice at present but to buy certain types of weapons and military hardware that the domestic industry cannot produce.

"Why not, if the Russian defense industry is incapable of making such a product?" Ivanov retorted.

"Unfortunately, we are lagging behind in certain areas including construction of surface ships," he said, adding that it was inappropriate to compare a nuclear submarine with the Mistral.

Ivanov also said that despite the overall growth of production in the defense sector, Russian companies did not produce enough components to meet the needs of the domestic defense industry.

"The defense sector uses 35% of Russian-made components and 65% of components purchased abroad," he said.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/russia/2010/russia-100310-rianovosti02.htm

"Global warming between France and Russia

Iranian nuclear program, European security and trade agreements appear in the agenda of the first state visit in Paris of the Russian president.

In the agenda: the Iranian nuclear program, the entrance of Russia to the World Trade Organization and the revision of the European Pact of security. They also planned to discuss a new agreement of partnership and cooperation between Moscow and the European Union, intended to replace the one who expired in 2007. " It is important for us to understand their opinion on the subject ", explains a adviser of the Kremlin, Sergueï Prikhodko.

Paris wants to sell a Mistral in Moscow

.../...

France seems besides definite to sell in Moscow one of its Mistral, a helicopter carrier which can transport about forty heavy tanks and welcome a headquarter. If this project is confirmed, it will be the first time which a country of the NATO gives up of the military equipment sensitive to Russia. Minister of Defence, Hervé Morin, pleaded this way: " Russia changed and we have to change our glance towards the Russians ", he said to his European colleagues, gathered combined to Palma of Majorca, last Thursday.../..."
FRANCE-SOIR 02-28-2010

Is Russia really going to buy this Mistral? What say the Russian newspapers about this?

Cléo wrote:

Is Russia really going to buy this Mistral? What say the Russian newspapers about this?

The negotiations are still ongoing. Russia wants to buy one and license produce three. France wants to build two and license in Russia two more. Whatever the outcome, Russia will get 4 Mistral BPC.

Russia will only buy fully-equipped Mistral from France - Gen. Staff chief

RIA Novosti

25/03/201018:32

MOSCOW, March 25 (RIA Novosti) - The chief of the Russian General Staff said Thursday that Russia would only buy a fully-equipped Mistral-class amphibious assault ship from France.

Russia is negotiating the purchase of a Mistral-class ship from France, worth 400-500 million euros (around $540-$675 million). Russia could also use French technology later to build another three such vessels in Russia in partnership with the French naval shipbuilder DCNS.

"Russia's leadership and Defense Ministry have a clear position on the issue. Should a final decision be made on Mistral, we will purchase this ship only if it is fully equipped - with all control and navigation means and armaments," Army General Nikolai Makarov told the Rossiiskaya Gazeta Nedelya government weekly.

"The only exception is helicopters. They will be domestically made. Everything else is to be made to their standards completely," he said.

But the French Defense Ministry on Thursday reiterated that if the deal is struck, Mistral-class vessels would be delivered without armaments.

"The president said publicly in front of his Russian counterpart what the scope for negotiations was," spokesman Laurent Teisseire was quoted by AFP as saying.

French President Nicolas Sarkozy said March 1 at a joint press conference with his Russian counterpart Dmitry Medvedev that Mistral is "a helicopter carrier we will create for Russia without military equipment."

A Mistral-class ship is capable of transporting and deploying 16 helicopters, four landing barges, up to 70 armored vehicles including 13 battle tanks, and 450 personnel.

Many Russian military and industry experts have questioned the financial and military sense of the purchase, and some believe that Russia simply wants to gain access to advanced naval technology that could be used in the future in potential conflicts with NATO and its allies.



http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/russia/2010/russia-100325-rianovosti02.htm

U.S. urges more discussions of Russian-French Mistral deal

RIA Novosti

30/03/201005:42

WASHINGTON, March 30 (RIA Novosti) - A possible deal between Russia and France on the purchase of a Mistral-class amphibious assault ship should be thoroughly analyzed, a U.S. deputy secretary of state said.

"I think this is an issue that the President has paid some attention to. But I think this is the question that we need to discuss with our French colleagues — how best to promote stability in the region," James Steinberg told a media briefing in the Foreign Press Center.

He added such deals are a domestic matter of any country, and the U.S. wanted just to "make sure that there was full exploration of all the consequences."

Discussions on the matter should be held not only between the U.S. and France, but also at the NATO level, he added.

U.S. President Barack Obama and French President Nicholas Sarkozy are scheduled to meet on Tuesday.

Russia is negotiating the purchase of a Mistral-class ship from France, worth 400-500 million euros (around $540-$675 million). Russia could also use French technology later to build another three such vessels in Russia in partnership with the French naval shipbuilder DCNS.

French President Nicolas Sarkozy said March 1 at a joint press conference with his Russian counterpart Dmitry Medvedev that Mistral is "a helicopter carrier we will create for Russia without military equipment."

A Mistral-class ship is capable of transporting and deploying 16 helicopters, four landing barges, up to 70 armored vehicles including 13 battle tanks, and 450 personnel.

Many Russian military and industry experts have questioned the financial and military sense of the purchase, and some believe that Russia simply wants to gain access to advanced naval technology that could be used in the future in potential conflicts with NATO and its allies.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/news/2010/03/mil-100330-rianovosti02.htm

I think it is a good idea.

First of all the Soviets were always happy to license produce things and save their own money they would have needed to develop their own version of.
They produced lots of trucks designed by Ford and of course the DC-3 transport aircraft was produced as the Li-2 or something from memory.

Second if Russia really wants to be a global power then it needs global reach and the only way to get that is through your navy.

Britain didn't become a great power and then develop its navy and the same for the US.

With the performance of air defence systems on navy vessels improving all the time to have a competant navy you need aircraft.

Aircraft extend the distances you can see and the distance you can punch and add a very large and flexible layer to the defence of surface vessels.

BTW to the Turk who thinks buying off the shelf shows weakness name one country that does not do that.

Even the US that spends a large fraction of a trillion dollars every year on "defence" has an Italian pistol (Barretta), a Swedish disposable AT rocket launcher (AT4), is introducing a Belgian GPMG (M240 aka FN MAG), its much vaunted MBT has British Armour and a German gun and Belgian machinegun.

The Russians are saving money by buying off the shelf and are getting a proven design that can do the job they want it to do.

With earthquakes and floods and tidal waves and other disasters around the place having this vessel will be rather useful in lots of situations... especially in places where the west is not so welcome like Myanmar or even Venezuala just to name two countries.

I have read reports of the Kirov class vessels being refurbished with new weapons and new sensors, they would be very good examples for the basis of a carrier group.

Even just ripping out the 20 silos for the enormous Granit missiles you could probably get 80 launchers for Clubs there which could be used against ship, land and submarine targets depending upon the missile type used.

...buying these Mistral class vessels is a statement that the Russian Navy is not going to stay a coastal force largely armed with corvettes.

For this alone I think this purchase is worth a cheer.

Talks on Mistral ship purchase still underway - Russian Defense Ministry

RIA Novosti

07/04/201019:32

MOSCOW, April 7 (RIA Novosti) - Russia and France have not yet agreed on the purchase of a French helicopter carrier for the Russian Navy, a Russian deputy defense minister said on Wednesday.

Russia is negotiating the purchase of at least one Mistral-class amphibious assault ship, worth 400-500 million euros (around $540-$675 million) and plans to build three more vessels of the same class in partnership with the French naval shipbuilder DCNS.

"We are still in talks on a wide range of issues related to the purchase of French ships of this class. Primarily, these are questions of the cost, quantity, and onboard equipment," Vladimir Popovkin said.

Popovkin reiterated that Russia wanted to buy only one ship and build three more under the French license at Russian shipyards, while France planned to sell two vessels and license the construction of the remaining two ships.

"For example with the controversial Mistral, our condition is that one ship will be constructed there [in France], and the assembly of the remaining ships at our shipyards with the transfer of technology, and not just a hull, but with all the 'goodies,'" he said.

Many Russian military and industry experts have questioned the financial and military sense of the purchase, but Popovkin disagreed that the Mistral was useless for the Russian Navy.

Russia has at least four islands in the Pacific Ocean which are still disputed with Japan as well as the Kaliningrad exclave surrounded by NATO countries. In case of a potential threat to these regions, Mistrals could be used to transfer military forces to the conflict zones, he said.

"All of the decisions have been thought through. Unfortunately, the military is the type of area where we can not disclose our [military] plans or information on gaps which need to be filled," Popovkin said.

The future of the deal is still unclear because France is unlikely to agree on transferring sensitive technology that Russia could use in potential conflicts with NATO and its allies.

Director of the Center for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies (CAST) Ruslan Pukhov said on Wednesday that France would never sell the Mistral with its naval tactical data system SENIT 9 because it provides links to NATO data exchange formats.

"This system could not be sold in any case, because it contains a software which gives an opportunity to control NATO military forces," Pukhov said, adding that Russia would most likely have to install its own electronic equipment on the Mistral ships.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/russia/2010/russia-100407-rianovosti01.htm

The Russians probably don't really need the NATO based command and control system as they have developed a system, I believe it is called Sigma, for large vessels that combines air, surface and subsurface data for the management of naval forces.

It is supposed to be going to be fitted to the Kuznetsov along with some major changes according to one report I have read.
The upgrade is supposed to be rather along the lines of the Admiral Gorshkov upgrade but even more indepth and includes catapaults for larger aircraft and the removal of the Granit missiles to make the hangar area bigger.

Obviously if they plan to have future carrier designs they need to keep pilots and crews trained in the operation of aircraft carriers so obviously keeping the Kuznetsov in service will be critical.

It might even become nuclear powered which will save enormous amounts of space, which will be needed for aircraft fuel and ammo etc.

Kuznetsov upgrade link: http://en.rian.ru/analysis/20100406/158454665.html

Russia to build port facilities for Mistral ships

RIA Novosti

08/04/201013:05

MOSCOW, April 8 (RIA Novosti) - Russia will have to build port facilities if it decides to purchase a French Mistral helicopter carrier for the Russian Navy, Russian Deputy Defense Minister Vladimir Popovkin said.

Russia is negotiating the purchase of at least one Mistral-class amphibious assault ship, worth 400-500 million euros (around $530-$660 million) and plans to build three more vessels of the same class in partnership with the French naval shipbuilder DCNS.

"We do not have port infrastructure for aircraft carriers, but we plan to build it [for Mistral type ships]," Popovkin said. "If we reach an agreement [with France], we'll do everything, if not, we won't."

Popovkin also said Russian Kamov helicopters (Ka-52, Ka-226) will be based on Mistral ship, if the country decides to go ahead with the purchase.

He noted that Russia wanted to buy only one ship and build three more under French license in Russian shipyards, while France planned to sell two vessels and license the construction of the remaining two.

Many Russian military and industry experts have questioned the financial and military advantages of the purchase, but Popovkin disagrees that the Mistral would be useless for the Russian Navy.

Russia has at least four islands in the Pacific Ocean which are still disputed with Japan as well as the Kaliningrad exclave surrounded by NATO countries. If these regions come under threat, Mistrals could be used to transfer military forces to the conflict zones, he said.

The future of the deal is still unclear because France is unlikely to agree to transferring sensitive technology that Russia could use in potential conflicts with NATO and its allies.

Director of the Center for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies (CAST) Ruslan Pukhov said on Wednesday that France would never sell the Mistral with its naval tactical data system SENIT 9 because it provides links to NATO data exchange formats.

"This system could not be sold because it contains software which allows the control of NATO military forces," Pukhov said, adding that Russia would most likely have to install its own electronic equipment on the Mistral ships.


http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/russia/2010/russia-100408-rianovosti09.htm

Mistral - Japan's answer to the eternal question kurilian Well, Kaliningrad, he will also help, if that

Newspaper Kommersant№ 61 (4361) on 08.04.2010

A military official confirmed the fact appear earlier information that the ship type Mistral appear primarily in the Baltic Sea and the Pacific
Photo: Alexander Koryakov / Kommersant

открыть галерею ...открыть галерею ...открыть галерею ...
Almost a year after the beginning of history with the purchase of Russia from the French Mistral class amphibious assault ship the Ministry of Defence finally tried to clearly explain why they are in fact the country and its armed forces. Yesterday, Deputy Defense Minister of arming Vladimir Popovkin said that Mistral is necessary for the safety of the Kuril Islands and the Kaliningrad exclave of cover.

Universal amphibious assault ship Mistral - displacement of more than 21 thousand tons, hull length 210 m, the speed of full speed - over 18 knots, cruising range - up to 20 thousand miles. Helicopter can take on up to 900 paratroopers, 16 helicopters and landing craft, 13 tanks and 70 vehicles. Its approximate cost - € 400-500 million

Mr Popovkin yesterday reiterated that a political decision on the purchase of a French ship taken, negotiations are going. But not yet been determined, even the format of the transaction: "1 +3" (one buy and three Mistral build under license in Russia) or "2 +2". The contract price was previously estimated by experts at about € 1,5 billion However, according to Mr. Popovkin, it is not about the billions, and hundreds of millions of euros. " The expert community is mostly sharply critical of the deal, pointing out that the Mistral, designed for long-distance ocean operations and radically different from the standards of the Russian Navy, will be useless. But the deputy minister yesterday for the first time explained why, in fact, this ship needs a Russian naval forces.

"We in the Far East have a question not settled the islands from the standpoint of Japan, from our point of view, all agreed ... we have a special Kaliningrad region, which has no direct connection", - said Vladimir Popovkin. According to him, Mistral class ships will bring back the troops and military equipment in case of need. Otherwise, he said, on the Kuril Islands, for example, will have to "deploy factions there and keep thousands of soldiers, officers and weapons." Thus, a military official confirmed the fact appear earlier information that the ship type Mistral will appear primarily in the Baltic Sea and the Pacific.

In addition, Mr. Popovkin stressed that all decisions on the procurement of weapons abroad were the result of analysis conducted by the military, which showed "a sequence where we need to close the hole." And all future contracts for the import of arms should be, he said, involve and technology transfer, including in the case of Mistral. However, as noted by the Director of the Centre for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies Ruslan Pukhov, in the case of a positive decision on its acquisition Russia will still be sold without the main thing - combat information management system SENIT9, as it includes software to manage the diverse forces of NATO countries.

Ivan Konovalov

http://www.kommersant.ru/doc.aspx?DocsID=1350291

I think what he means it with all the advanced medical setup, I rather doubt the Russians want a battle management system that is compatible with NATO but not with their own setup.

I understand the new Russian system is called Sigma and unifies the data collected from all sensors on the vessel from air, sea and undersea like the AEGIS system and allows communication and commands be shared between vessels.

They might like a look at the NATO system but the Mistral vessels they want in service will likely use Russian sensors and weapons and aircraft.

If France installs the SENIT 9 command system, there is no fear that Russia will tap into Link 16. You have to have Link 16 data links in order to do anything with it. We want it to run the Thales tri-dimensional MRR3D-NG Multi Role Radar as that is the heart of sensor equipment.

Glad to hear it is a Thales system that will be useful for the Russian navy, because Thales have a good record of cooperation with Russia.

Will be interesting to see if this deal meets Russian and French expectations.

Russia to buy French warship by yearend - federal agency

RIA Novosti

21/04/201013:36

MOSCOW, April 21 (RIA Novosti) - Russia will sign an agreement with France on the purchase of a Mistral-class helicopter carrier by yearend, the head of the Federal Service for Military and Technical Cooperation said on Wednesday.

Russia has negotiated the purchase of at least one Mistral-class amphibious assault ship, worth 400-500 million euros (around $540-$675 million) and plans to build three more vessels of the same class in partnership with the French naval shipbuilder DCNS.

France insists on selling two vessels and building another two in Russia.

"The agreement on the purchase of a Mistral-class ship is due to be signed by yearend," Mikhail Dmitriev said, adding that the French side is more optimistic and believes that a contract could be ready for signing as early as September.

A Mistral-class ship is capable of transporting and deploying 16 helicopters, four landing barges, up to 70 armored vehicles including 13 battle tanks, and 450 personnel.

Many Russian military and industry experts have questioned the financial and military sense of the purchase, and some believe that Russia simply wants to gain access to advanced naval technology that could be used in the future in potential conflicts with NATO and its allies.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/russia/2010/russia-100421-rianovosti01.htm

From what I have read the air defence of the Mistral is pretty weak.

I wonder how the Russian navy will approach this issue.

They could replace the French armament with the Russian equivelent, AFAIK it is basically 50 HMGs and a turret launcher for MANPADs, which the Russian Navy have shown their own versions of.
Or they might improve the air defence with Kashtan-M or Palma.

I remember reading somewhere they were talking about a new replacement for Klintok (a naval version of the land based TOR) that had active radar homing that could therefore be used in a fire and forget mode that allowed more targets to be engaged at once.
Perhaps based on the 40km range missiles of the S-400 system?

Or perhaps the Morfei missile based on a new AAM and land based SAM with IIR seeker and 10-12km range, which would make it something like Sea RAM.

Mistral isn't intended to enter high threat areas without air warfare ships. Russian doctrine places more emphasis on self-defence than French ships. Most obvious would be replacing the 4 corners French weapons with Kashtan CIWS modules. That would be far better than what is on it today. If it is needed a Klinok battery could also be added if you are willing to cut into deck and hanger space. I think 4X Kashtan would be enough as that is the cheapest and most cost efficient way to upgrade Mistral. Klinok batteries are expensive and there would only be room for one channel of fire.

French warships for Russia may be armed with Ka-52 helicopters

RIA Novosti

21:0912/05/2010 MOSCOW, May 12 (RIA Novosti) - Russian Ka-52 Alligator helicopters may be the best choice to arm Mistral helicopter carriers, which Russia plans to purchase from France, the chief of Russian helicopter holding said on Wednesday.

Russia negotiates the purchase of at least one Mistral-class amphibious assault ship, worth 400-500 million euros (around $530-$660 million) and plans to build three more vessels of the same class in partnership with a French naval shipbuilder.

The director of the Federal Service of Military-Technical Cooperation in April told RIA Novosti the political decision on the Mistral's purchase had already been taken.

"The French have said the Ka-52 could be the best helicopter for the aircraft carriers [helicopter carriers]," Andrei Shibitov said while answering a question on which helicopter may be used on the Mistral. Two other types of helicopters were tested on the Mistral when the ship made a short port call in Russia in 2009, he added.

The Ka-52 is armed with a 30-mm cannon, Vikhr (Whirlwind) laser guided missiles, rockets, including S-24s, as well as bombs.

The Ka-52 is a modification of the basic Ka-50 Hokum model. The development of the Ka-52 started in 1994 in Russia, but its serial production began only in 2008.

The helicopter is also equipped with two radars, one for ground and one for aerial targets and a Samshite nighttime-daytime thermal sighting system.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/russia/2010/russia-100512-rianovosti06.htm