Il-112V/Il-212 light military transport

JohninMK wrote:

George1 wrote:It looks terrific!

Form over function currently.

Cargo
It’s important to understand what an airlifter might be called upon to move. The ADF moves its stores on standard 463L pallets which are 2.24 m by 2.74 m in plan
view and typically 1.75 to 2.05 m high, with the C-17 able to transport pallets up  to 3.04 m high and the C-130 up to 2.44 m high, subject to being within applicable
weight limitations. Ideally, pallets should be able to be transferred from C-17 to C-130J to BFA without having to break them down and repack the contents, a task that consumes time and manpower. For moving personnel, there are different  seating configurations that can be employed, and assumptions have to be made
about the total all-up weight of troops and their personal equipment.
In terms of floor area, the C-27J can accommodate three 463L pallets, with room for an additional ‘half pallet’. The total cargo capacity in volume is around 44 m3, with a
maximum ceiling height of 2.6 m and a height of 2.44 m at the wing spar, offering a maximum pallet height of 2.11 m. The C-295 is longer but narrower and the cargo  space has a lower maximum ceiling height of 1.9 m and a usable height of 1.5 m,  although the greater floor area can accommodate the footprint of up to five pallets.
According to Airbus, the C-295 has a cargo volume of just under 40 m3, excluding the ramp area.
Due to clearance requirements, neither aircraft can accommodate the maximum  pallet height of 2.44 m that a C-130 can carry.5
As such, pallets intended for transfer  to the BFA from the other airlifters will have to either be packed to a lower total
height (and hence volume) or broken down and repacked in theatre. However, there
s an additional constraint for the C-295 in terms of clearance around the pallets—the standard pallet footprint is a snug fit, leaving little room for personnel to move
around. The C-27J can accommodate pallets of up to 2.1 m in height and its width should accommodate a standard pallet with the necessary clearance.
A more serious limitation due to the C-295’s lower cabin height is the size of objects that can be accommodated. This is probably most significant in the case of vehicles. The ADF’s new cross-country vehicle, the Mercedes-Benz G-Wagon will be fielded in a number of variants and configurations, but all will be around 2.0 m or more in height and so won’t fit in the C-295’s cargo space. Some variants won’t fit into the C-27J either, but the basic 4 x 4 and 6 x 6 mobility variants will. Others, such as the reconnaissance and surveillance or ambulance models would require some disassembly and/or a multi-role aircraft lift. (Or could be air dropped from a C-130 if necessary.) Similarly, there are a number of vehicles under consideration
for the future ‘protected mobility vehicle - light’ (the Army’s proposed light armoured vehicle for operations in areas with a threat from mines, small arms fire or improvised explosive devices), most of which are too tall for the C-295 cargo space

GarryB wrote:Nice. Should be an excellent replacement for the An-24 and An-26...

I believe that the size and appearance of the il112v have been so chosen to allow the transport of the loads and vehicles that the Russian military needs, and not for standard pallets...

What do you mean by standard pallets?

HATO standard or Russian standard or international standard?

I would suspect they designed their plane to carry Russian and probably International standard loads... do you think the market within HATO for a new Russian transport plane warrants consideration for carrying HATO standard stuff?

Aircraft in this weight class would not be able to carry their new armoured vehicles like Kurganets or Armata or Boomerang, though the Tigr and other light vehicles could be carried I would guess.

GarryB wrote:

Off topic start
There are also other sizes used in other countries, such as the Australian 1165 × 1165 mm (45.9 × 45.9 in) (is it used also in NZ, Garry?),

Not off topic at all.

This is a transport plane, and it will be designed to carry the pallets the Russian military uses... which is most likely properly metric...ie the 1 x 1.2m you mention above...

Anyway,  what I meant is that apparently the main concern for the C295 is to transport pallets, and the cargo shape and size has been optimised for that, while probably the russian military is more interested in vehicles and other special equipment.

I would think they would be able to manage to get a design that allows both shifting the stuff they want but also to accommodate their own standard loads as well.

Foreign pallets not fitting would not be a huge concern really...

but unfortunately the Tigr is about 7 tons heavy (there are lighter vehicles, anyway) ... maybe in an upgraded version of the il-112v with increased payload....

They have those new lightweight 4 wheel vehicles designed to operate from Hips... I would suspect they could probably carry two of those without problems...

The Il-112V can hardly replace the An-24 for two simple reasons

The Russian Air Force does not operate any An-24
Also the An-24 is a passenger plane, not a military freighter

But the An-24 is in use in at least four Russian airlines, so if they adopt an Il-112 based passenger version of the Il-112v you could say that in a way it was a replacement... because it is intended to replace the An-26 and the An-26 is very similar to the Il-112V.... so similar in fact that the Il-112V being used to replace the An-26 could in fact be adapted to also replace the An-24 also in use by Russian organisations including the Navy... perhaps and likely a few other government departments.

I mean the whole purpose of the programme was to replace the old light Antonovs in Russian service and Russian use... no point in making a plane only for the Russian AF to only replace the An-26.

dino00 wrote:The source reported the postponement of the second flight of the Il-112V to February

Dec 8 - RIA Novosti. The second flight of the new Il-112V military transport aircraft, almost two years after the first lift into the air, was again postponed and is now scheduled for February 2021, a source in the aircraft industry told RIA Novosti.

"The second flight of the Il-112 has been postponed again and will not take place until the end of this year. The most optimistic terms for the continuation of flight tests are February 2021," the agency's interlocutor said, answering the relevant question.

According to him, the postponement of the resumption of flight tests of the Il-112V is partly due to the fact that "the main forces of PJSC Ilyushin have been thrown on the topic of the Il- 114-300."

The interlocutor clarified that for the second flight, the main systems were improved and the weight of the aircraft was reduced by almost two tons. "Previously, it was planned to complete work on lightening the structure of the aircraft and lift it into the air for the second time by the end of 2019, then everything shifted to the beginning of this year, then to April, then to the summer and at the end of this year," the source said.

https://ria.ru/20201208/ispytaniya-1588139761.html

GarryB wrote:They would only realise the prototype was tail heavy with testing, so an emergency solution is to use ballast to allow conventional flight so other tests could be performed but the use of ballast is a temporary thing to allow testing of other things.

A redesign would be needed so the design was balanced and did not need ballast or dead weight to restore performance.

Once identified it should not be that hard to fix it, which means ballast can be removed too.

lancelot wrote:

GarryB wrote:They would only realise the prototype was tail heavy with testing, so an emergency solution is to use ballast to allow conventional flight so other tests could be performed but the use of ballast is a temporary thing to allow testing of other things.

A redesign would be needed so the design was balanced and did not need ballast or dead weight to restore performance.

Once identified it should not be that hard to fix it, which means ballast can be removed too.

They should have realized that sooner. There is software to simulate mass distribution in vehicles including aircraft.
Ansys is one. There is more to software than CAD.