Su-27: News

@franco

At the time of the start of the SVO, there were 20 units (on the list in service with the Russian Aerospace Forces) Su-27, 10 pcs. Su-27UB, 47 pcs. Su-27SM and 24 pcs. Su-27SM3. In addition, a number of Su-27P aircraft are in storage.

According to official data, by the end of 2020, the almost complete decommissioning of the Su-27P and Su-27SM aircraft, which were ending their flight life, was expected. Naturally, with the beginning of the SVO, the aircraft continued to serve, which was repeatedly recorded by both our and Western media.

@Isos

They have not replaced them at all.

They have to increase production to at least 15 su-35 annually every year and at least 12 su-57 per year if not more. This way they will get 150 more su-35 and 120 su-57 in 10 years.

I don't really like the su-30 but if its price is as low as the 16 million $ claimed in that article from few months ago then they should make a total of 300 of them as a multirole jet. According to that article su-35 is 2 times more expensive than su-30 and su-57 is slightly more expensive than su-57... For such price su-30 is very good but if it is any more expensive su-35 is a better choice.

Once su-75 is ready stop both su-35 and su-30 and buy only su-75 and su-57.

250 su-35, 120 su-57, 300 su-30 in 10 years is a good deal. Then from 2027, su-75 will start being produced and they can get some 48-96 till 2032 if they produce 10-20 per year, depending on the production.

@sepheronx
Honestly, if it is true how Wagner took over older Su-24's and now operate them in the SMO, it would be interesting to give them the Su-27's and see what they can do. What they come up with in terms of upgrades, maintenance and use in the battlefield.
Or
Hand these over to allies like Syria which needed the jets.

@sepheronx

I agree with isos here. Russia needs to increase its airforce numbers considerably, considering that neighbors and enemies alike are increasing theirs. And with russias large airspace , it only makes sense.

@Isos

Well they will have to increase number of regiments.

China is producing hundreds of jets. Nato is also fielding a shitton of f-35.

Those 100 su-35 are not enough. Even less when you see the size of Russia. The minimum would be to have 600-700 fighters in total. Not including bomberz like su-34 or interceptors like mig 31 which is also decreasing in numbers.

The su-27SM could definitly go to Syria which desperatly need fighters. Su-27P are useless and too old. They reached their end. Gift them 12 Su-27SM + 12 mig-29SMT and a couple of the first variants of Su-30 for training.

@Isos


Posts : 10339

160 Mig-31 ? I thought they planned only 90 or so.

170 su-57 would be good but looking at the orders, 24 then 78 till 2027 means you will get 170 of them in 25 years. And tge link showed its 3 times more expebsive even in rubles.

200 su-35 will happen they already order 140 in total out of which 110 delivered.

They order less su-30 than su-35 and may stop it but your 160 figure isn't biased they already have around 100 of them.

But when you compare to the 500+ J-11 China is fielding, it becomes pathetic. Not to mention that they still lack a good stock of air to air missiles for those su-30/35. R-77M isn't ready and r-37 is big and they hardly have more than few tens of them that they will need for the mig-31 also. Meanwhile China and nato are having huge stocks of pl-15/21 and aim-120D/Meteor. R-77-1 is already outmatched.

Su-75 for carriers is a wet dream. They made it clear carriers aren't for tomorrow and they won't put a fighter that isn't in service with the airforce directly on a carrier. Even if they start the carrier in 2023 it will take 15-20 years to finish it and finish its testing at best. Until then they will have a next gen sukhoi or su-57 that will be mastered by then.

Isos wrote:170 su-57 would be good but looking at the orders, 24 then 78 till 2027 means you will get 170 of them in 25 years. And tge link showed its 3 times more expebsive even in rubles.

Isos wrote:But when you compare to the 500+ J-11 China is fielding, it becomes pathetic. Not to mention that they still lack a good stock of air to air missiles for those su-30/35. R-77M isn't ready and r-37 is big and they hardly have more than few tens of them that they will need for the mig-31 also. Meanwhile China and nato are having huge stocks of pl-15/21 and aim-120D/Meteor. R-77-1 is already outmatched.

@GarryB


The Russian AF does need more aircraft, but will do that in two ways to make it affordable... the first will be the introduction of a light fighter, whether that is the MiG-35 or not remains to be seen, we have seen the Checkmate but it has not flown yet so we can know MiG has rivals for that role and that the Russian military probably does not want a Sukhoi monopoly on fighters and strike and CAS aircraft in Russia, which is in favour of any entry MiG might put forward.

The MiG-35 or its 5th gen equivalent are obviously the numbers aircraft, and in addition drones like the S-70 will help fill out numbers where needed without having to spend 120 million per aircraft and 90K pounds per flight hour in operating costs like the F-35.

The new generation of Russian Air to air missiles are likely being perfected and will be in service by the time we find out what will replace the MiG-35... note the Su-27 had a long gap between starting production and getting into service because Soviet industry had problems producing its radar and IRST systems... so it is not surprise their might be early model MiG-35s with early model sensors... once they are in serial production new radars can be fitted easily enough and they can already use a wide range of weapons... including compatibility with the R-37M.

The low opinion in the west is ironic because they tested and practised against downgraded export model East German MiG-29Bs and now they think they can beat them... but every model since then has been upgraded and improved and it is currently a very different aircraft... but the west lives in the past...

And the Su-30 costing half what the Su-35 costs wont last when they upgrade the aircraft with Su-35 systems to make it essentially a two seat Su-35.

This will not happen, MiG-35 is for export, Russia does not want ligth aircraft, for that have missile tantical regiments and drones

@Isos


Edit: Just yesterday Choigu said they need to rise the number of personnel from around 1 million to 1.5 million people. That's a 50% increase. I guess that implies a 50% increase in the ar force since more people on the ground need more aircraft in the sky.

GarryB wrote:
Not every mission requires super long range heavy fighters, and missions to patrol an area to protect it from air attack requires aircraft to remain locally and cruise around looking for targets... a smaller lighter cheaper fighter can do that better than a bigger heavier more expensive fighter.

Lighter fighters make good sense, the analogy is similar for an aircraft carrier... it has physical limitations as to how many aircraft you can carry... there are also limitations on how many aircraft you can launch and recover within a given time period so having millions of fighters does not help if you can only get a dozen or so airborne every 10 minutes.

Fighting in the Ukraine is not the same as WWIII because HATO has a lot more planes that will be more difficult to dominate compared with what the Ukraine had.

Besides it would balance out a monopoly that Sukhoi currently enjoys that is not healthy... Su-57, Su-35, Su-30, plus medium strike Su-34, and light CAS Su-25... do they need more work?

The Su-17M4 and MiG-27M and MiG-27K and the Mig-23 and MiG-21 were available in enormous numbers, and while their swing role capacity was not amazing for the latter fighters, the former Su-17 and MiG-27s were very capable aircraft in their area of attack...

Talk about the Su-75 being the solution, well the MiG-35 is the non stealthy equivalent and could be put into production now... by the time the Su-75 gets into serial production for the export market the MiGs problems could be all sorted out and it could be a very good solid reliable aircraft that is cheap to operate but capable for what it does.

OK, just try to convince Shoigu

Isos wrote:
But when you compare to the 500+ J-11 China is fielding, it becomes pathetic. Not to mention that they still lack a good stock of air to air missiles for those su-30/35. R-77M isn't ready and r-37 is big and they hardly have more than few tens of them that they will need for the mig-31 also. Meanwhile China and nato are having huge stocks of pl-15/21 and aim-120D/Meteor. R-77-1 is already outmatched.

With missiles and drones, half of tactical aviation is redundant.

HATO has a lot more planes that will be more difficult to dominate 

Isos, the J16 can be shot down as easily as Ukrainian su27, by s400 or s350 from world record 250km range

Even at low altitude

Such a plane has no business flying over s400 /s350 coverage

Only stealth fighters have yet to be tested against these air defense systems

By the time S500 comes online, the R77m will be redundant on Russian borders , this will probably touch stealth fighters at 300km ranges

@Arkanghelsk

When Su75 are introduced, what would be the organizational process?

Would they create new regiments?

Because if so it would make sense to get a light fighter into service now to fill out those regiments and have them train and fly in a light fighter with similar characteristics to Su75, so that by 2040 they are ready to introduce the plane into the new regiments

Isos wrote:Eurofighter, f-16, f-18 are being replaced by 5th gen fighters. Mig-35 came way to late. It should have been ready in 2010.

Isos wrote:
And frankly we still want to see the difference with mig-29M. For me it's the same plane overall.