Talking bollocks thread #4

Not surprised that their was a right wing conspiracy to prevent the transfer of power in Brazil:



https://www.yahoo.com/news/brazilian-senator-says-ex-president-130735869.html

This author makes a good point about Communists are hated far more than nazis:



https://beyondhighbrow.com/2023/02/06/which-does-the-west-hate-more-nazis-and-fascists-or-communists/

Flaming Python wrote:As the daughter of the defense minister yes she should stay inside the country and be more solemn in general, not only for appearance reasons but as a security measure too.

But in terms of being just a citizen of the country she hasn't done anything that anyone else hasn't.

King Zhou of Shang ordered the subordinates to make a pair of chopstick made from ivory.

One of the court magistrate then made a comment: the king did not use wood chopsticks, but ivory chopsticks. Ivory chopsticks could not be coupled with jitney bowls and dishes, they had to be coupled with golden, silver foodwares decorated with gems. Expensive foodwares would not be used for rice, bread or vegetable, but for panther fetus, bear's hand, dragon's liver, or monkey's lips. The king having such food would not live in a humble villa, but in majestic, gigantic palaces, built by the corpses and bones of thousands of people.

The court magistrate predicted that Shang dynasty wouldn't last long, therefore he voluntarily resigned his posts and made his escape from the Shang's upper circle.

As predicted, king Zhou became one of the most notorious tyrant in Chinese history. The Shang dynasty collapsed quickly under his rule.

=o0000o=

Duke Huan of Qi asked Guan Zhong: "My court magistrates and the aristocrats have been used many purple clothes recently. The purple dye is very expensive, you know."

Guan Zhong replied: "Well if Your Majesty did not use purple clothes then nobody will."

The Duke then discarded all of his purple clothes in his inventory, and intentionally told other people how he disliked the purple color, how the purple color made him feel uncomfortable. Quickly, purple clothes fell out of use in Qi.

Is that all butthurt about the kids can be explained by any reasonable means other than blah blah blah?
Yes, people with a solid and stable income can afford worldwide trips.
Yes, people who have power & contacts can locate their kids in the most exclusive positions.
Yes, they will be even more wealthy than their parents.
That is how it works, it is called wealth accumulation.
Every single person should be devoted to that, no matter the existing status.
The butthurt means that you are not a part of that.
Sorry.
Don't waste your time on the internet forum, go and do some productive things.

Sounds like youre neoliberal trash.

Go talk about "wealth accumulation" to the low income russian men risking their lives on the frontline. If the family of the defence minister whose defence ministry caused things like the retreat from chernigov and sumy, lack of drones, lying about 70% modern equipment, etc wants to live in opulence, then the defence minister doesnt deserve to be a defence minister.

Also peskov and soloviev's children are spoiled brats giving western propaganda ammo. This is why we need stalinism. If youre a civil servant, youre should be lower middle class out of solidarity with the proletariat that risks its lives and produces wealth for the country.

Also FU again for justifying nepotism

Post flamming_python Today at 3:54 am

A lil' bit of Ukro-madness

This shitshow started to piss off the people a while ago already.
The point is that they are bringing this brothel along with them, everywhere they go.
It can be irrelevant in shitholes like Paris, they are used to living in a fukin Africa (with all the respect to Africa), but not here.
The last show of geriatric medicine here in Poland already raised tons of noise among normal people.
Like questions arose if we are still in Poland, as the ukro flags were all over there, not the Polish.
Of course covered by the MSM yet there was a juicy pic of a guy showing his two middle fingers to Grandpa Joe while standing 10m from him

@Alamo
One "slight" problem with Little Lord Fauntelory silver spooned arseholes getting all the money, jobs, contacts, decent education and positions.
Any country rapidly turns into a garbage-ocracy.

"Wealth accumulation" is fine if you have brains and ability and hard work.
If you're some retarded prick with a rich daddy or great great great x 25 granddaddy, like in England, the whole country will turn to shit. Run by fuckwits, for fuckwits.

Nothing noble about that "wealth creation" because its wealth suppression and wealth misappropriation, the exact opposite of wealth creation.
Its usually the reason why empires collapse.

Why should normal people pay huge chunks of their income in taxes, only for some arsehole to get a giant inheritance tax free, or near enough?

Countries become run by lazy, jumped up, low IQ idiots. And out of greed and fear, they suppress genuine talent and ability. Count Fuckwit runs a whole region and trillion ruble empire. And the man who SHOULD be doing that ends up in a call centre. Not exactly an intelligent way to run a country. Simple a corrupt and diseased way. Precursor to the deaths of empires (see Romanov, Spain, British empire, US empire and many more).

Even plenty of US oligarchs admit that nepotism is a disaster and have actually excluded their own children either totally or in large part from their wills.

If Putin wants to **** up his legacy its simple. Just turn Russia into a Tsarist/British style twat-ocracy.

@Alamo
One "slight" problem with Little Lord Fauntelory silver spooned arseholes getting all the money, jobs, contacts, decent education and positions.
Any country rapidly turns into a garbage-ocracy.

"Wealth accumulation" is fine if you have brains and ability and hard work.
If you're some retarded prick with a rich daddy or great great great x 25 granddaddy, like in England, the whole country will turn to shit. Run by fuckwits, for fuckwits.

Nothing noble about that "wealth creation" because its wealth suppression and wealth misappropriation, the exact opposite of wealth creation.
Its usually the reason why empires collapse.

Why should normal people pay huge chunks of their income in taxes, only for some arsehole to get a giant inheritance tax free, or near enough?

Countries become run by lazy, jumped up, low IQ idiots. And out of greed and fear, they suppress genuine talent and ability. Count Fuckwit runs a whole region and trillion ruble empire. And the man who SHOULD be doing that ends up in a call centre. Not exactly an intelligent way to run a country. Simple a corrupt and diseased way. Precursor to the deaths of empires (see Romanov, Spain, British empire, US empire and many more).

Even plenty of US oligarchs admit that nepotism is a disaster and have actually excluded their own children either totally or in large part from their wills.

If Putin wants to **** up his legacy its simple. Just turn Russia into a Tsarist/British style twat-ocracy.

Problem is that a lot of people put in all this work and ingenuity and successfully amass fortunes, setting up successful companies or occupying positions at the top of career ladders - exactly because they want to pass wealth and prosperity down to their kids.

When it's not for women, it's for the kids.

If you remove inheritance you'll remove a huge amount of possible motivation.

A man by himself without a family actually needs rather little from life in comparison.

Still, no-one's talking about abolishing the principle of meritocracy here.

... and, surprise surprise, the idea of not accumulating wealth is one of the pillars of this whole "woke" shit that is being carried.
Just ... lease!
Don't buy. Don't own. Don't accumulate.
Lease.
Be free.
Let the others worry about this ugly thing of ownership. Let them choke with wealth.
Go and be a free birdie! Gender fluid, of course.

No Neoliberalism is nepotism  and is Woketardism.

The only decent way to accumulate wealth is turn earn it honesty through talent and hard work.
Not by being a slothish dickwad with a corrupt rich great great granddaddy.

Jsut as Klaus Schwab says "YOU will own nothing and be happy".
"You will be free but not free with money because that's bad for the planet and economy, you will be free to cut off your dick and go round as a tranny".
The YOU being the masses.
Schwab will take everything the masses own, and hand them to his scummy kids, scummy grandkids and great great x 25 grandkids.

The exact opposite of meritocracy. An evil and diseased form of feudalism aka fascism.
Not exactly something to celebrate.

Building wealth for kids doesnt mean allowing kids to live opulently. Sukhoi, Gorshkov,Korolev, Mikoyan, Gryazev and Shipunov also worked for the wealth of their kids, but they didnt drive mercedeses and allow their kids to party in the west.

Also stop conflating civil servants in the defence ministry with company owners. The former has no right to live opulently.

@Flamming
You're advocating the exact OPPOSITE of meritocracy.
Check out ANY country that has had nepotism at work and you see how organs of power and businesses beyond the smallest tend to be owned.

Your post doesn't even make any sense.
So people without kids don't work hard? Or people who fell out with their kids? People who don't want kids don't work hard? Absolutely ridiculous.

And how does only giving substantial money to trust fund kids motivate a population, let alone allow it to progress properly?

How many of the 99% say "ohh I'm gonna work really hard in the shitty call centre today because Little Lord Fauntleroy says nepotism is good for the economy"? And how is Little Lord Fauntleroy going to work hard if he can sit on his fat, upper class faggot arse all day and do nothing, yet still have a fortune come in to him? He's NOT!

Likewise you've completely ignored my point about wealthy, self made oligarchs admitting that massive inheritance is disastrous for countries.

Check out how ultra nepotistic 19th century Spain collapsed. Britain owned half the world 70 yrs ago, now is flooded with the worst criminal trash of the 3rd world and fucked up beyond repair. I live in Britain, and British citizens can see as much as any country in the World how much the silverspoon culture fucks up a country.

Really, you are arguing black is white.

That's not feudalism, it's normal capitalism

Earn your money from controlling other peoples labour and leave them with only a fraction of what their own efforts produced. By virtue of the fact that you were the one with the starting capital and had employed everyone initially.
I haven't read any of Klaus Schwab's whatever, and it doesn't interest me to do so. So I can't really comment on any specifics.

But generally the form of capitalism we have in the world, aside from moving to a global model driven by Western efforts, which makes it more exploitative - is also becoming less exploitative simultaneously due to technological progress. We now have a situation where tons of people have the skills (programmers, graphic designers, etc...), mainly computer-related ones, to start production with no starting capital.. not physical production, but intellectual or software production. And by doing so profit from exclusively their own labour with no intermediaries. Or get together with like-minded and complementary specialists and distribute their earnings equally, again with minimum starting capital, and with their main investment just being the amount of time and labour each has contributed. All this is in all essense a microcosm of the socialist economy growing within a greater capitalist economy, and according to which more and more people start to earn their living by without realizing it, calling people who work 9 to 5 jobs 'wage slaves'.
It's even possible to start small-scale physical production at minimal cost now as well, due to the advent of affordable 3D printers, CNC machines and so on. You can even rent such machines out at whatever venue, just paying for the time and electricity. Although large-scale or complicated production still requires huge capital investment of course.

Hence why you are surprised by Klaus Schwab's honesty. But really all he's alluding to is the same capitalism that has traditionally existed for the last 200-300 years, nothing new.

However as for passing down wealth and property to your kids - in any sort of future economic system it will still be a thing, you can bet on it. Nor is there any reason to fight against it. The most basic social unit is the family; which comes before society at large and the economy, government or whatever else. The family typically operates according to communism as it always has - from he who has to he who needs.

Building wealth for kids doesnt mean allowing kids to live opulently. Sukhoi, Gorshkov,Korolev, Mikoyan, Gryazev and Shipunov also worked for the wealth of their kids, but they didnt drive mercedeses and allow their kids to party in the west.

I agree, especially for while the kids are still growing up and finding their own place in life. But that's something for the parents to decide.
Do you insist on the rest of society interfering in family workings? Should the government interfere?

Also stop conflating civil servants in the defence ministry with company owners. The former has no right to live opulently.

When it comes to the highest-level civil servants such as government ministers then it's basically the same skill-set as the CEOs or heads of departments on the chair-boards of multinationals. And with even more responsibility.
So yeah, they do deserve generous compensation, and should be able to decide what to do with their earnings as they please. After all if you don't give them that, then any top corporation would be glad to hire them instead for key positions.

@Flamming

Well you are so far away from reality, I don't know where to start.
Either YOU are one of the Little Lord Fauntleroy types, living off daddy's millions.
Or you have been truly brainwashed. (Marx might have been a twat but the "false class consciousness" argument might well be relevant here).
Or you have no self respect and are basically some form of cuck to the overlords.
I'm not sure which.

BTW I'm not some sort of cloth cap Communism. I work in the financial markets and have seen the difference between inbred, contemptful, inherited money gobshites (including some of my own relatives) and self made, hardworked, well adjusted, talented people. And Britain where I live is the epitomy of the type of lack of society you are advocating.

Feudalism is NOT Capitalism.
Feudalism destroys market efficiency all the time, every time.
Perverted capitalism destroys market efficiency.

Your defence of Schwab is absolutely jawdropping. Its like turkeys voting for Christmas.
I suggest you read up on that POS. Because he's one of the key reasons his gang are trying to eliminate Russia.

Ultimately it comes down to this.
Do you want intelligent, hardworking talented individuals making key decisions/performing difficult and ultra skilled work for the benefit of the vast majority ?

Or do you want a lazy, low IQ, talentless moron performing those same acts and decisions for the benefit purely of the 0.01% who have never worked hard, never developed a skill and never given a **** about the World outside of their inbred, cousin marrying, cocksucking own group?

Your problem is that you don't know how to read, or can't understand what you're reading.
As a result you just attack everyone you see.

Where did you see a defense of Schwab?
You got that from when I said that what your quotation of his words were describing is not feudalism, but capitalism - and that for most of the last 200-300 years of capitalism in fact have ordinary people not owned much of anything either, and that it had only gotten better due to state capitalist programs such as mass housing or investment into schools & education (by now largely now all defunct), or socialism organically taking hold little by little for certain professions such as in the IT sphere; as a result representing a haven where ordinary specialists can earn a good living in today?

Where the hell - did you see me arguing for nepotism, and against meritocracy and all the rest of it?
You got all that, from me arguing that passing down one's possessions to one's children is a family matter and in fact represents a very fundamental social behavior that has been around from before societies and civilizations even formed?

Calm down, and sober up.

How long before that O/T stuff gets shifted to Talking Bollocks thread?

@Flamming

Some daft comments in there. And as for the "sober up" etc, I think you can do better.

For what its worth, on most topics I think you're a very good poster.
One of the best here in fact... IMO. But on this topic, you're WAY wide of the mark.
Perhaps its because if you are in Russia, you won't see the harm of multi-generational inheritance (because Russia has only been a so called "free market" since 1991). Britain on the other hand has been nepotism based since the year dot. Same thing in other monarchies, more and more in the US and "old money" countries like France. Although less so than say Britain, the epitomy of nepotism.

Nobody is advocating stopping people handing down modest amounts of personal possessions etc.
What we're completely against is handing down large fortunes tax free, handing down positions of influence and over-privilege. And relegating the talented and hard working to the shit and crumbs.

If people aren't paid according to what they do, according to effort and talent then societies become stagnant, diseased and die. The examples are all around. Why are some of the World's wealthiest billionaires in Neoliberal America so vehemently against turning their kids into trust fund/inheritance kids?

Read back what you have been saying. Then I think you will understand my posts.
Anyway, its off topic.

@Flamming

Some daft comments in there. And as for the "sober up" etc, I think you can do better.

For what its worth, on most topics I think you're a very good poster.
One of the best here in fact... IMO. But on this topic, you're WAY wide of the mark.
Perhaps its because if you are in Russia, you won't see the harm of multi-generational inheritance (because Russia has only been a so called "free market" since 1991). Britain on the other hand has been nepotism based since the year dot. Same thing in other monarchies, more and more in the US and "old money" countries like France. Although less so than say Britain, the epitomy of nepotism.

Britain - is a country which hasn't had a revolution since the English civil war, and where property rights have been respected since the Magna Carta

There is very little risk of a country like Russia, with its comparatively far greater instability over the previous centuries thus far, ever settling into class-divisions and old-money dynasties like Western Europe has any time soon, with all the social ills of spoilt kids and secret pedophile societies that it brings with it.. although actually those last 2 don't really require multiple generations of inherited wealth I'm afraid.
Even if Russia has finally hit upon the sweet spot where it can develop unmolested and without major social upheavals for at least this century. Which I hope for myself, but there is no reason to assume as yet either.

And perhaps now it's all a moot point, given that the accelerating development of technology has accelerated the development of society, politics, history all along with it. It may be that the world will change too much from generation to generation, amassing and losing fortunes will become a common-place occurrence and social mobility will increase far beyond anything that was known in the previous century and certainly in the 19th century and before.

Nobody is advocating stopping people handing down modest amounts of personal possessions etc.
What we're completely against is handing down large fortunes tax free, handing down positions of influence and over-privilege. And relegating the talented and hard working to the shit and crumbs.

You rally against what you see are social ills but you fail to understand the cause. You only blame the symptoms, and then try to figure out ways to prevent them, as that unworkable Italian law Rodion citated a few posts back, which amounts to nothing more than casting stones at a flowing river in a bid to stop it.
The problem is not inherited wealth. Inheritance is natural. The problem so to speak, is that the economic system allows such amounts of wealth to be accumulated in the first place, and to be translated subsequently into corrupt political power.

If people aren't paid according to what they do, according to effort and talent then societies become stagnant, diseased and die. The examples are all around. Why are some of the World's wealthiest billionaires in Neoliberal America so vehemently against turning their kids into trust fund/inheritance kids?

Naturally, they have accumulated an amount of money impossible for themselves to spend, impossible for their families to ever spend, and so for the welfare of their own lineage, they figure out something else to do with it. Because they realize that power corrupts, and that if they pass on this amount of money to their offspring, it'll be like playing a video game with all cheats and god mode enabled. Sure it's pretty cool at first but ultimately you get bored of it quick, because all the challenge, accomplishment, and all the building of skills required for that - simply disappears. And you're left with an empty experience.
As you would have an empty experience of life too and not build character, if you had all cheats on too and unlimited wealth and so on.

IMO though, none of this would be a problem in the first place were people only able to earn based off their own work, and not those of others. You'd still be able to get rich, but you'd have to be very smart or hard-working or original, probably all 3, and you would never be able to earn disgraceful riches that you have no personal use for.
If we get to that stage, that is to say socialism, then the people with the old money will not be a factor. They will keep their wealth but after several generations of spending it but not being able to reinvest what they inherited and get rich of the percentages, or use it to buy high positions they're not qualified for - they will have to start earning themselves, and using their own skills and hard work if they want to keep living well.
But honestly all this stuff is super speculative and doesn't justify too much discussion.

@FP
One of the biggest problems for development of Russia are oligarchs and their descendants. And if situation with private oligarchs with their mostly I'll gotten gains is pretty self-explanatory, situation is not much better with state oligarchs and bureaucrats and their children. Most well known examples being Patrushev's son, Bortnikov's son or Rogozin's son, which was CEO of Ilyushin at the age of 30. And these are most well known examples. I don't have to tell you that this examples of nepotism won't lead to anything good in the long run.

One of the biggest problems for development of Russia are oligarchs and their descendants. And if situation with private oligarchs with their mostly I'll gotten gains is pretty self-explanatory, situation is not much better with state oligarchs and bureaucrats and their children. Most well known examples being Patrushev's son, Bortnikov's son or Rogozin's son, which was CEO of Ilyushin at the age of 30. And these are most well known examples. I don't have to tell you that this examples of nepotism won't lead to anything good in the long run.

You really don't have to tell me.

In olden times the nobles or their sons were expected to be the first to head into battle, or later on, to be educated as officers and do much the same thing

The modern-day equivalent though is just useless from every angle, they're not even good for setting an example during wartime. They all skip off to Dubai or smooch off some state companies.

I would say the opposite folks.
It is not an oligarchy that is part of the problem, but the instability of the regime and law system that allows them to influence the processes.
Not addressing Russia, because Russian problems are much more trivial than let's say Murican ones.

People who are yapping about nepotism mix the things, first of all.
If you are a wealthy person, you can deliver your family the best the money can buy.
That applies to education, first of all.
But not only.
Wealthy persons are usually surrounded by equality, and that is not because they are snobs.
They are doing that because the other way is stressful and potentially risky.
So, when your children are grown enough to end up in education at come fine college, and are ready to go forward - what would you do?
Well, you are going for lunch with your friend or business partner you know, asking him/she if there is any job your kid would fit in.
It has nothing to do with nepotism. It is just a case of wider opportunities that are granted to successful people.

So from my life experience, the ones who whine laudest about that, are the ones who simply haven't developed their potential to the level when they can secure their own families.
As easy as that.
No big blah blah blah is needed to describe people being jealous.

I think what you are trying to say that it is not just what you know but more who you know that allows you to get on in life.

The thing is that you don't get rich by working most of the time.

The number of jobs where you earn really big money are rare and either given on merit or blood... a lot of horse trading is done in the background.

Of course that CEO of a major company like a bank does not earn that big money, but they get it because they have to be paid more than the little guys who actually do all the work.

In fact when those banks got bailouts from governments because they were too big to fail the CEOs didn't lose their bonus payments because bonus payment are part of their salary and even when you **** up so bad the company should go under but it does not because the government bails you out you still get all your bonuses... but obviously a few hundred branches of your bank get closed down so you can pretend you are saving money too.

The thing is that some people working for companies are worth what they get paid and the rest are not... most of the people who are manager or above don't warrant what they get and those on the coal face actually earning the money and working with the customer likely don't earn enough.

The problems of western business is that millionaires and billionaires who invest in companies with no other contribution other than buying shares can make good money for essentially doing nothing.

There should be laws that require company executives to put money back into the company in the form of increased wages for the bottom 3 or 4 wage ranges whenever there is a profit and when they have a hard year a pay cut for the top 3 to 4 wage ranges should allow them to continue just fine... but companies are pyramid schemes to create a class system of managers and separate them from the people with the skills.

If you get elected president of any country and your wife and adult children and other family members get jobs in the government... that is just wrong... but then the US system is broken... you get to be a diplomat if you donate enough money to the winner... the bigger the donation the better place you get to be diplomat for... one of our US diplomats started as US ambassador to some place in Africa and she complained that she wanted an english speaking country because of her substantial contribution to the campaign fund so we got her...

That is all you need to know about US diplomacy...