PapaDragon wrote: flamming_python wrote:...making native language lessons in the schools of various republics non-obligatory for Russians...
As it should be
Do Latvians force their own people to learn Russian?
Do Turks force their own people to learn Kurdish?
Do Greeks force their own people to learn Turkish?
Do Chinese force their own people to learn Uighur?
It's Latvian land, so no they shouldn't force their own people to learn Russian. But having some Russian-language lessons or some schools at least for Russians can't hurt.
The f*ck is the division between Russians and Latvians anyway? Only the social order that the Latvian elites have themselves constructed, and the paranoia about a Russian invasion.
But if Russia does invade for no reason, then the fault lies with Russia, not with how Latvian society is ordered. That I can't blame the Latvians for in all honesty. But still, they should respect the Russian language and try to build up a unified society with it included.
No the Turks don't force their own people to learn Kurdish, they call the Kurds Mountain Turks, force them to learn only Turkish and have been fighting a brutal war against Kurdish seperatists for 50 years, while enforcing a social order of militant nationalism on their own population; that then works wonders when these Turks emigrate to Europe.
A war that could probably have been avoided I should say, if the Turks thought up of something smarter, instead of hardcore Turk nationalism and assimilation.
During the days of the Ottoman Empire, Islam united the Turks and the Kurds and the Kurds served as some of the Sultan's most loyal troops. Of course with the collapse of that empire, the Turks were left with a much reduced territory, while the religious idealism that guided the empire naturally collapsed with it, so the Turks needed something new. They set about towards a course of ethnocracy and naturally the Kurds were alienated and adopted the same mindset, dressed up later in the colors of socialism thanks to Soviet support for the PKK, but the essence remained the same; it was tribal warfare. Kurds now cause as many problems in Europe as Turks do.
Although the decisions of the Turks were logical I can't help but think that socialism should have been tried for instead, and if it failed - just let the Kurds seperate. Who needs these problems.
About Greeks and Turks I don't know, my impression is that they all just ethnically cleansed each other from everywhere already.
The Chinese should probably institute some Uighur lessons for Chinese in Uighurstan, and grant the Uighurs the freedom to practice their religion without restrictions. At the end of the day this will facilitate the movement of the Uighur people towards China, not drive them away and make them more and more conscious of their ethnic and religious identity which is what's happening now.
It's mind-boggling that this abomination existed for so long
It's mind-boggling how some people think that forced assimilation measures can still work in the 21st century and won't lead to greater blowbacks than the benefits of what they were trying to achieve. Unfortunately some people clearly do think so.
Tribalism is not statehood
Any region east of Volga that would try to secede would never be anything more than poor man's version of Kyrgyzstan
You might think that but China's economic output is now creating its own dynamics. Russia should think about its own model of statehood and its plan of economic development carefully before potentially drawing constituent people's to think that maybe they can benefit by serving as a fulcrum between Russia and China, and do a better job at preserving their own cultures and languages while at it.
There is a reason why Central Asia is a shithole and always will be, economy doesn't care about ''culture''
Without support system of a civilized nation it will be nothing more than a primitive wasteland same as Rockies in North America or Tibet in China
The era of greatest Central Asian prosperity was probably during the Silk Road. That's China to the Middle East, and China to Europe for you. The Middle East is also rising up economically. So again I would be careful with your self-assured predictions. A classic symptom of imperial hubris.
Of course if the NATO-Turkey plan of inciting pan-Turkic sentiment in Central Asia succeeds, then it will be aimed at China first and foremost, although it won't mean anything good for Russia either. It would also mean however, that the Silk Road will have to go through Russia instead; at least for what concerns China-Europe.
flamming_python wrote:
Policies of assimilation in USSR worked perfectly: all Russians in Ex-Soviet states have been completely assimilated by local population as was the plan of the CPUSSR
In regards to the Caucasus/Asian states, in most of them Russians have been chased out by elites paranoid about them being wielded as a tool by Moscow.
Still there's a considerable community left in Uzbekistan and Kyrgyzstan, while Kazakhstan is still full of them and the entire kaleidiscope of other ex-Soviet ethnicities too; who for most intents and purposes can be counted as Russians as their greatest threat to survival is Kazakh nationalism, that Moscow is capable of tempering for the time being.
As for the others; Moldova still has plenty, the Baltics still have plenty, the Ukraine still has tons. They have not been assimilated. In some cases they have adopted the identities of their parent states. But that's normal, the main thing is that their language is not under serious assault. In East Ukraine where it is, and the people there are conscious of the fact that they live on their own land and not someone else's - there is a lot of discontent.
What parallel realty do you live in?
Russia is the only place in existence where these degenerate traitors still exist, all other nations have purged this
Not at all. In fact most of the Soviet patriots I have found in real life and the internet are not ethnic Russians and/or are not from Russia.
This freak show was already tried and failed miserably and you want to do it again?
How many of their own people are Russian commies willing to throw in the mass grave in the service of their socialist cult? (rhetorical question, history has showed that they are willing to kill every last Russian in the name of messiah Marx)
What you have to understand is that Russia and in fact the entire ex-Soviet world, is now going through the 'Bourbon syndrome'.
Much as how the Bourbon monarchy was reinstated in France following Napoleon, capitalism and autocrat splendor has been reinstated in the ex-USSR. And people are increasingly conscious of the fact, that all these revivals of national identities, rewrittings of histories, funding of religions, etc... all these new mosques, cathedrals, statues, parades, etc... bring nothing more for them materially, in fact only causing bloodshed, while their rulers and upper classes are enriching themselves beyond belief, while keeping an atmosphere of social repression. This repression is weakest in Russia out of all these countries, but it's still there and the anticipation is we have no control over our destinies and all tools for feedback towards the elite are themselves owned by the elites and failing to fulfill their functions.
In other words much in the same manner as how the Bourbon dynasty started to repeat the same material conditions and social contradictions that led to the 1st French Revolution in the first place, so too are we.
And the fact is that Trotsky predicted this about the USSR, and many socialists pretty much predicted the character of counter-revolution.
And now we're all reverting to things that have been tried before and have met their failure. Russian chauvinism, Ukrainian Nazism, Baltic Nazism, Pan-Turkism (Golden Horde). Radical Islamism has now been knocked out of the game I suspect for a good while, now that people have seen with their own eyes its inevitable conclusion (ISIS).
That the first attempt at creating a fundamentally new type of society failed means rather nothing to me. The 1st French Revolution inevitably led to anarchy, debate, and contradictory decisions - then Napoleon appearing on the horizon, declaring 'The revolution is over. I am the revolution'. Who then proceeded to implement the revolution entirely by himself, as he himself understood it - and all the yearnings, social changes and ideas that constitute a revolution. In any revolution there are plenty of them, and 1 man no matter who cannot possibly understand and appease all of them. Napeoleon failed, the monarchy was reinstalled, the monarchy repeated the previous monarchies mistakes, the monarchy was replaced by a constitutional monarchy - a borgouise-aristocrat union, the borgouise-aristocrat union failed and was finally replaced with a full-on borgouise republic.
We've had our revolution, we've had our Napoleon (Stalin) and our 1st 'republic'. We've had our monarchy reinstalled, and initially completely friendly to the West as intended. 'Alas', our monarchy is now repeating the previous monarchies' mistakes.
The most logical progression is to try for a borgouise - proletariat union.
Putin has served beautifully in this regard, completely isolating the Russian borgouise/oligarchs from the borgouise internationale (the West). Now our rulers and elites, have no-one else to turn to, but their own people if they want support for the coming confrontation.
As for Marx, understand one simple thing. Some people might regard him as a prophet, but that's only due to the influence of Marxist-Leninism which was a specific rewrite of Marxism intented to attempt to install socialism in a backwards feudal society.
In reality he's just a person who wrote a bunch of what I consider scientific papers. And although his logic in places has been criticized in the 150 years since, and there is scope for correction - his premises have not been abrogated. No-one has managed to form a better theory of social-economic progression or disprove his despite his books having been written in the mid 19th century.
All that we've had since is the sort of ideological, borgouise, liberal/Christian-value claptrap that exactly Marx called out for what it was in his own time.
That you view this current borgouise-capitalist mess, and the regurgitation of backward social orders, empires and ideologies in the world ad naseum - as the final end point of civilizational development, is your problem PD. Personally I think you are just lacking a little imagination.
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