Russian Radar systems

[quote="Austin"]

victor1985 wrote:

Austin wrote:Came across this info on upgraded radar for patriot using GaN module , Does Russia have any GaN project for AESA , I believe so far they are all using GaA TR module

what is so special at those Gan modules?
if it is about weight well i think that doesnt matter for a truck like s400.....maibe for a handheld radio or something.... [/quote

Lighter Weight , Long Life , Twice the Power Output , Twice the Range , Cheaper atleast once it goes into production

Not cheaper.

It is a nice update to the emitors of the AESA radars, the GaAs has lower efficiency than the GaN, it means smaller size, less power and less cooling requirements.

It is not so critical in the land based radadars, it is good to have on airborne radars.


However he stealth anyway pushed up the wavelenght, that push down the emitter module count in the radars, so the benefit smaller or marginal than it should be say 30 years ago.

Additionaly the stealth put more emphasis onto the receiver logic , that is the critical infrastructure part now.

That is the reason why Russia spent a lot of money into the Elbrus cpu development, that is more critical than the GaN for the radars.


I think they will work in the comming years on the GaAs anyway, they need that for the MRAM spin transfer torque mechanism .

And at the moment the biggest priority for russia is to manufactre high speed spaceborn cpus an memories.

Singular_trafo wrote:

Austin wrote:

victor1985 wrote:

Austin wrote:Came across this info on upgraded radar for patriot using GaN module , Does Russia have any GaN project for AESA , I believe so far they are all using GaA TR module

what is so special at those Gan modules?
if it is about weight well i think that doesnt matter for a truck like s400.....maibe for a handheld radio or something.... [/quote

Lighter Weight , Long Life , Twice the Power Output , Twice the Range , Cheaper atleast once it goes into production

Not cheaper.

It is a nice update to the emitors of the AESA radars, the GaAs has lower efficiency than the GaN, it means smaller size, less power and less cooling requirements.

It is not so critical in the land based radadars, it is good to have on airborne radars.


However he stealth anyway pushed up the wavelenght, that push down the emitter module count in the radars, so the benefit smaller or marginal than it should be say 30 years ago.

Additionaly the stealth put more emphasis onto the receiver logic , that is the critical infrastructure part now.

That is the reason why Russia spent a lot of money into the Elbrus cpu development, that is more critical than the GaN for the radars.


I think they will work in the comming years on the GaAs anyway, they need that for the MRAM spin transfer torque mechanism .

And at the moment the biggest priority for russia is to manufactre high speed spaceborn cpus an memories.

i have a question :
as far as i know the radio antenna (some of them) has sensitivity to one direction..... if we have 2 antennas with the most directivity in diferent direction ....the waves that are hitting those two antennas ....are registered as different in the two antennas? because like this you can see wich waves are moving according to a direction of a plane .....

If GaN is more useful for airborne radars than ground based radars then where's the advantage for Russian IADS new radars ?

victor1985 wrote:
i have a question :
as far as i know the radio antenna (some of them) has sensitivity to one direction..... if we have 2 antennas with the most directivity in diferent direction ....the waves that are hitting those two antennas ....are registered as different in the two antennas? because like this you can see wich waves are moving according to a direction of a plane .....

Directional antenna, like a yagi will increase the gain, and decrease the sensitivity to a narrow angle.

If you have tow antennas the challange will be to make a receiver that syncronised to be capable to see the phase shift between the same wave.

It is a bit hard to do cheap at home, but there area few example of RTL sdr projects where the guy made from RTL dongles a phase array radar sensor , by synronishing the clock of all dongle.

max steel wrote:If GaN is more useful for airborne radars than ground based radars then where's the advantage for Russian IADS new radars ?

In ariborne aplications the weight ,cooling requirements and power consumption quite important.

With a ground radar not.

The Russian Micron has GaN manufacturing capability, but as I read they need a new plant to manufacture those.

I think it was meant Nebo-M radar, not Nebo-U, which is different. On the picture is Nebo-M.

Are these radars powerful than Duga radar in Chernobyl. An over-the-horizon radar system over 10 MW power

max steel wrote:Are these radars powerful than Duga radar in Chernobyl.  An over-the-horizon radar system over 10 MW power

Not as powerfull but mobile!

Mobility is an issue many lose sight off but as it does not correlate with the technical carateristics of the system but makes a whole strategy of use around and for Russia one

that is most important.

any idea what is it ?

Руско „невидљиво око” и за америчке невидљиве авионе B-2 и F-22

MINISTRY OF DEFENCE OF RUSSIA INTRODUCES A NEW SYSTEM OF SURVEY AT THE END OF 2013.

Систем који има ознаку МИИС способан је да прати авионе и бродове на растојањима од неколико хиљада километара, а да при том сам остане непримећен
УВОЂЕЊЕ многопозиционог извиђачко-информативног система (МИИС) почеће крајем 2013. године.

Извор из Министарства одбране РФ саопштио је да се тренутно усаглашавају техничка документација и обим финансирања пројекта.

Саговорник, који МИИС назива „невидљивим оком”, рекао је да је систем способан да прати авионе и бродове на растојањима од неколико хиљада километара. То је толико ефикасан систем праћења какав Русија није имала.

Представник Министарства одбране је прецизирао да су све техничке карактеристике МИИС поверљиве, иако је објашњив систем његовог рада. „Сви цивилни и војни објекти и у ваздуху имају емитују неколико радио таласа. То су радари, комплекси система навигације GPS и ГЛОНАСС, радио висиномери” - рекао је извор из министарства одбране.

„Пошто МИИС једноставно слуша простор и не зрачи, то значи да протвник не зна да је откривен” - истиче извор. Он је још додао да се ни амерички авиони B-2 и F-22, који су иначе неприметни, неће моћи сакрити од овог система.

Да би се елементи „свевидећег ока” поставили - довољно је неколико десетина квадратних метара простора. У основи: за антену. Постављени систем биће неприметан како за ваздушно тако и за космичко извиђање.

Извор је такође саопштио да су прва испитивања МИИС обављена пре три године. Тада су „на нишану” система - који је постављен у Московској области - били авиони и бродови руске Ратне морнарице.

„Свевидеће око” пратило је тада објекте који су летели над Баренцовим морем. Кад су састављене координате систем је погрешио за само неколико метара.

Постоји и аналог МИИС, његовим пројектовањем се бави британска компанија BAE Systems.

Овај податак познат је од августа месеца ове године, али су и карактеристике британског система су такође под ознаком тајности.

New Russian radar capable of spotting stealth aircraft being deployed;

http://en.ria.ru/science/20160702/1042341025/russia-podsolnukh-radar-f35.html

Anyone have heard of Sunflower radar?
Russia have the ability to see over the horizon without any external aid ,like patrol aircrafts
or boats. The radar will detect not only planes beyond the horizon line of sight.. about ~50km.
but also all the way to 450km ,by sending a signal that follows the curvature of the water surface.

This is truly a major development in radar technology , when radars can up to 300 boats and planes movements. up to 450km away and without any deployment of airforce or navy to extend the radar view. This means Russia right now have complete full monitoring capabilities of anything that happens in Baltic sea ,caspian sea or black sea in the water or above it, up to 450km distance from the radar. really interested stuff. and if all that was not good enough
to deter mass waves of surprise attacks ,flying low. Sunflower radars can also see F-35.

apparently the Sunflower radar is already operating in Sea of Okhotsk, the Sea of Japan and the Caspian Sea.

http://sputniknews.com/military/20160710/1042734198/f35-engine-radar.html


Wondering if NATO also developed and in service over the horizon surface wave radars.
This technology can also significantly save a lot of money in patrols , since the radars will keep
updated Russia with every movement in the water and over it up to 450km away.

Yes Sunflower is younger brother of Container OTH radar

Austin wrote:Yes Sunflower is younger brother of Container OTH radar

This I put up so that some of you can have a smile. It is the infamous David Axe on the Sunflower. You will enjoy the comments. Just wish Milatrov was still here with his gems of Serbian SAM wisdom.

https://warisboring.com/dont-sweat-russia-s-stealth-fighter-detecting-new-radar-94ce6fc66883#.9f6ku5upo

JohninMK wrote:

Austin wrote:Yes Sunflower is younger brother of Container OTH radar

This I put up so that some of you can have a smile. It is the infamous David Axe on the Sunflower. You will enjoy the comments. Just wish Milatrov was still here with his gems of Serbian SAM wisdom.

https://warisboring.com/dont-sweat-russia-s-stealth-fighter-detecting-new-radar-94ce6fc66883#.9f6ku5upo

Ooh god, not this BS argument again, "so you can see our uber-stealth fighters, but you can't target us, because reasons", this pathetic excuse isn't exclusive to Mr.Axe here, it has become quiet common, it came from Military and Defense industry officials desperately trying to save there a$$.

Russian scientists have increased the accuracy of the optical radar (LIDAR) 10 fold

franco wrote:New Russian radar capable of spotting stealth aircraft being deployed;

http://en.ria.ru/science/20160702/1042341025/russia-podsolnukh-radar-f35.html

I found this photo about that radar.



It looks realy different.

65th Anniversary of Radar Troops;

http://function.mil.ru/news_page/country/more.htm?id=12106257@egNews

General VKS explained how the radar troops recognize aircraft stealth

https://life.ru/t/%D0%B7%D0%B2%D1%83%D0%BA/948211/ghienieral_vks_obiasnil_kak_radiotiekhnichieskiie_voiska_raspoznaiut_samolioty-nievidimki

To detect aircraft with reduced visibility, radar troops of the Russian Federation using locators that are effective in the centimeter, decimeter and meter wavelengths, said the head of the radio Life forces VKS Russian Major-General Andrew Coban.

- To date, the aircraft carried out under the "Stealth", it is not difficult to detect the object for radio engineering troops. We discover them by means of radar. Due to what is achieved?

This is achieved through the use of radar raznodiapazonnyh. Technology "Stealth", they are effective in the centimeter wavelength range, in the decimeter wavelength range, but this efficiency is significantly reduced in the meter band. Physics can not be fooled. We use multi-band means, one such means, as I said, are radars "Sky-M" and the entire range radars "Heaven", such as "Sky-Y", "Sky-PA", "Sky-MM". All these multiband radar, so through the use of multi-band, integrated application of radar, we can detect all aircraft, including those carried out by "stealth" technology, - said Andrey Coban.

He also noted that the radar troops detect aircraft not only near the borders of Russia, but also at a great distance from them.

- On -TERM means the radar can detect objects at low, medium and high altitudes with serious boundaries detection. They are measured in hundreds of kilometers. Equipment and structure of radio troops can detect airborne targets, including reconnaissance aircraft, not only approaching the state border of the Russian Federation, but also far beyond the borders - said Coban.

December 15, 2016 marks 65 years since the founding of the Russian troops VCS radio. Radio engineering troops give out information about the beginning of the air attacks of the enemy, the combat information for the anti-aircraft missile forces and air defenses, as well as information for call control, air defense units and divisions.

The technology "Stealth" - a set of methods to reduce the visibility of combat vehicles in different areas of the detection range.

can someone tell me , at what range a NEBO M complex can detect an f22 or an f35? or at least if it can detect it from a reasonable distance?
also , can someone explain how does that ''multispectral queing" thing works ?
thank you

HM1199 wrote:can someone tell me , at what range a NEBO M complex can detect an f22 or an f35? or at least if it can detect it from a reasonable distance?
also , can someone explain how does that ''multispectral queing" thing works ?
thank you

Without any trouble, from 100s of kilometres.

The the wavelength works together, say if you see strong response from the NEBO,and very weak from the fire control radar then it is a stealth aircraft : )


It is works like the colours, the black and white picture carry less data and information than a colour one.

thanks for the answer singular transform , and can the Nebo-M generate a missile guiding track at long distances as well?

Singular_Transform wrote:

HM1199 wrote:can someone tell me , at what range a NEBO M complex can detect an f22 or an f35? or at least if it can detect it from a reasonable distance?
also , can someone explain how does that ''multispectral queing" thing works ?
thank you

Without any trouble, from 100s of kilometres.

The the wavelength works together, say if you see strong response from the NEBO,and very weak from the fire control radar then it is a stealth aircraft : )


It is works like the colours, the black and white picture carry less data and information than a colour one.

From million miles. It actually can detect aircraft flying in Mars orbit.