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Log inult wrote:Another render.
https://www.business-gazeta.ru/article/475280
I think it is the same thing shown in that banner shown to Putin months earlier, but it is just badly drawn.
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Project 23900 "Ivan Rogov" Amphibious assault ship
owais.usmani- Posts : 1786
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- Post n°26
Re: Project 23900 "Ivan Rogov" Amphibious assault ship
owais.usmani Mon Jul 20, 2020 3:10 pm
I think it is the same thing shown in that banner shown to Putin months earlier, but it is just badly drawn.
ult- Posts : 837
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owais.usmani wrote:
I think it is the same thing shown in that banner shown to Putin months earlier, but it is just badly drawn.
It could be badly drawn in terms of lighting, materials and so on. I believe the overall shapes and proportions are right. But some moron has mirrored the image when they put it on banners today.
LMFS- Posts : 5102
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dino00 wrote:Is this?
Seems definitely an evolution of that design.
PapaDragon- Posts : 13278
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- Post n°29
Re: Project 23900 "Ivan Rogov" Amphibious assault ship
PapaDragon Mon Jul 20, 2020 3:41 pm
Names are bit of a disappointment, what happened to Sevastopol?
It kinda looks like that previous image but this is by far dumbest possible angle they could have picked (does it have a full flight deck or just landing pads in the front and back?)
Did they say anything about the size?
ult- Posts : 837
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PapaDragon wrote:
Names are bit of a disappointment, what happened to Sevastopol?
It kinda looks like that previous image but this is by far dumbest possible angle they could have picked (does it have a full flight deck or just landing pads in the front and back?)
Did they say anything about the size?
It has a full deck. The angle is just bad.
PapaDragon- Posts : 13278
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- Post n°31
Re: Project 23900 "Ivan Rogov" Amphibious assault ship
PapaDragon Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:21 pm
Well that was absolutely miserable choice of image
Hopefully some internet folks will put together better pic based on this (it's too much to hope that anything remotely useful will be released by official sources so I won't bother waiting)
Isos- Posts : 11302
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It's like they changed the picture with Microsoft Word by stretching it.
Anyway IMO it's just a basic illustration of a helicopter carrier which has nothing to do with the real design.
Anyway IMO it's just a basic illustration of a helicopter carrier which has nothing to do with the real design.
Rodion_Romanovic- Posts : 2419
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- Post n°33
Re: Project 23900 "Ivan Rogov" Amphibious assault ship
Rodion_Romanovic Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:52 pm
PapaDragon wrote:
Names are bit of a disappointment, what happened to Sevastopol?
It kinda looks like that previous image but this is by far dumbest possible angle they could have picked (does it have a full flight deck or just landing pads in the front and back?)
Did they say anything about the size?
Ivan rogov was the name of the previous class of large landing ships (14000 tons displacement) built in Kaliningrad in soviet times...
So maybe the next ship built will be called Aleksandr Nikolayev....
And...shame for sevastopol, but probably it will be used for another ship soon (maybe a 22350M frigate/destroyer) or even a nuclear submarine (the name Vladivostok has been used for the latest yasen class submarine)..
By the way... should we change the thread name to Ivan Rogov instead of Priboy?
PapaDragon- Posts : 13278
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- Post n°34
Re: Project 23900 "Ivan Rogov" Amphibious assault ship
PapaDragon Mon Jul 20, 2020 11:16 pm
Largest ships they laid down since the Cold War are named after some pretty irrelevant people all things considered, apparently one was in charge of logistics and other was political officer
Wasn't there anyone else whose name they could have used? Not a single WW2 soldier, pilot or sailor was available? Not a single commander from that war? Or any other one? It's not like they have shortage of options
This whole thing feels as clunky as that Rotterdam-class looking image
Even names of small cities like Novorosiysk and Sochi would seem more appropriate than this
George1- Posts : 18323
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Laid down the universal landing ships "Ivan Rogov" and "Mitrofan Moskalenko" project 23900
On July 20, 2020, at the Zaliv Shipyard LLC in Kerch, in the presence of the President of the Russian Federation Vladimir Putin, the official laying ceremony for the Russian Navy of the Ivan Rogov and Mitrofan Moskalenko universal landing ships of project 23900 (serial numbers 01901 and 01902) took place. Project 23900 was developed by Zelenodolsk Design Bureau (ZPKB, a part of Ak Bars Shipbuilding Corporation).
Together with the general director of the Zaliv plant, Igor Obrubov, President of the Russian Federation Vladimir Putin installed a mortgage board for the Ivan Rogov universal landing craft (UDC) section (serial number 01901).
Deputy Prime Minister Yuri Borisov, Deputy Minister of Defense Aleksey Krivoruchko, Commander-in-Chief of the Navy Nikolay Evmenov installed a mortgage board in the section of the Mitrofan Moskalenko UDC (serial number 01902).
In addition, the head of state watched the laying of the project 885M nuclear submarines Voronezh and Vladivostok in Severodvinsk, as well as the frigates Admiral Yumashev and Admiral Spiridonov of project 22350 in St. Petersburg. Presentations were made by the Director General of PO Sevmash Mikhail Budnichenko and the Minister of Industry and Trade Denis Manturov.
At the ceremony of laying the UDC, Vladimir Putin said:
I congratulate you and your colleagues from St. Petersburg and Severodvinsk on a great event, on a very important and significant step in the development of the Navy.
Today, at the three leading shipyards of Russia, six new ships of the far sea zone are simultaneously laid. Here, in Kerch, these are two universal landing ships, in St. Petersburg at the Severnaya Verf shipyard, two frigates, and in Severodvinsk, at the Sevmash enterprise, two nuclear submarines.
By tradition, the landing ships and frigates of the new generation will bear the names of our famous military leaders and naval commanders who have done a lot to strengthen the Navy. These are “Ivan Rogov” and “Mitrofan Moskalenko”, “Admiral Yumashev” and “Admiral Spiridonov”. And nuclear submarines are named after the cities of military glory - "Voronezh" and "Vladivostok".
The new ships will be equipped with advanced weapons, control and long-distance communication systems. They will significantly strengthen the combat potential of the Navy and increase its strategic capabilities.
The Navy has always reliably defended the borders of Russia. And today he plays an extremely important role in ensuring the security of Russia, stands firmly on guard of national interests, and helps maintain a strategic balance and stability in the world.
There are now about 60 of our ships and support vessels in key regions of the World Ocean. Almost half of them are in the far sea zone. And such long sea voyages, the demonstration of the Russian flag have been held in recent years on an ongoing basis.
Russia has one of the longest coastlines and access to three oceans, so we will continue to pursue the development of a modern combat-ready fleet, build ships equipped with advanced weapons and equipment.
I would like to note that over the past eight years, the fleet has included more than 200 ships, boats and vessels of various classes. It is necessary to continue to consistently carry out the measures of the state armament program, so that by 2027, the share of modern ships in the Navy will exceed 70 percent.
For all Russian shipbuilders, this is a very serious and big task. Already, industry enterprises are loaded with orders for years to come. And you need to make the most of your powerful scientific, industrial, personnel potential to create the latest ships of all types.
I want to sincerely thank you and your colleagues for their conscientious work. We are proud of the professionalism and skill of those who are building a domestic fleet in Kerch and Severodvinsk, in St. Petersburg and Kaliningrad, in Bolshoy Kamen, in Vladivostok, in Nizhny Novgorod, in Zelenodolsk, in Astrakhan, and in our other enterprises.
Thanks to you - shipbuilders, naval sailors - our country is among the world's leading maritime powers, and Russian ships effectively solve the entire range of tasks. It should be and always will be.
I am sure that your work teams will fulfill their tasks with high quality and on time.
I wish you success, and the future crews of the ships that we are starting to build worthy service for the good of Russia!
Answering the questions of the workers of the Zaliv shipyard after the ceremony, Vladimir Putin, in particular, said:
Question: Does the state have plans to continue the construction of these ships?
Vladimir Putin: You know, in such an updated form these are the first ships. Therefore, we also have a test program, a program of even additional design work, a study of how they will behave. Therefore, yes, we plan to do this according to the results of the application practice.
They are good, modern. We even think - I don’t know if the minister in St. Petersburg hears me now - we even planned to remake something there and use them for other purposes. Almost the same, only for other purposes. Now I will not talk about it yet.
On the part of bmpd, we recall that in May 2020, the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation signed a contract with Zaliv Shipyard LLC for the construction of the first two Russian universal amphibious assault ships (UDC) of project 23900 for a total of about 100 billion rubles. Ak Bars Shipbuilding Corporation JSC (SKAB) controls Zaliv Shipbuilding Plant LLC through a "gasket" in the form of B.Ye. Butomy ”(existing at the same address as LLC“ Zaliv ”Shipbuilding Plant).
The materials on the 23900 project developed by the ZPKB were first publicly demonstrated during a visit by President of the Russian Federation Vladimir Putin on January 9, 2020 to an exposition dedicated to the prospects for the development of the Russian Navy, in the building of the Black Sea Higher Naval Order of the Red Star of the P. .Nakhimov in Sevastopol.
https://bmpd.livejournal.com/4091593.html
Last edited by George1 on Tue Jul 21, 2020 12:15 am; edited 1 time in total
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Rodion_Romanovic- Posts : 2419
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- Post n°36
Re: Project 23900 "Ivan Rogov" Amphibious assault ship
Rodion_Romanovic Mon Jul 20, 2020 11:47 pm
PapaDragon wrote:
Largest ships they laid down since the Cold War are named after some pretty irrelevant people all things considered, apparently one was in charge of logistics and other was political officer
Wasn't there anyone else whose name they could have used? Not a single WW2 soldier, pilot or sailor was available? Not a single commander from that war? Or any other one? It's not like they have shortage of options
This whole thing feels as clunky as that Rotterdam-class looking image
Even names of small cities like Novorosiysk and Sochi would seem more appropriate than this
Maybe they plan to lay down soon 22350M, leader class cruisers and aircraft carriers... if we wait 5 more years for the carrier the name of Kiev for the first one could be a possibility
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George1- Posts : 18323
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Project 23900 ships names are the same as those of soviet project 1174 LSD ships
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_Rogov-class_landing_ship
Does this means anyrhing about the class of the ship?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_Rogov-class_landing_ship
Does this means anyrhing about the class of the ship?
dino00- Posts : 1677
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George1 wrote:Project 23900 ships names are the same as those of soviet project 1174 LSD ships
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_Rogov-class_landing_ship
Does this means anyrhing about the class of the ship?
This shouldn't be an LSD if it's what you questioning
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SeigSoloyvov- Posts : 3699
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- Post n°39
Re: Project 23900 "Ivan Rogov" Amphibious assault ship
SeigSoloyvov Tue Jul 21, 2020 1:08 am
The ships have been laid down so now starts a very very long road.
Good luck to em.
Apparently the hull can have 20 choppers max, I feel they should have made 25 the min amount. Considering this is a 25k ton ship, 20 feels like too little.
Good luck to em.
Apparently the hull can have 20 choppers max, I feel they should have made 25 the min amount. Considering this is a 25k ton ship, 20 feels like too little.
Last edited by SeigSoloyvov on Tue Jul 21, 2020 1:14 am; edited 2 times in total
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- Post n°40
Re: Project 23900 "Ivan Rogov" Amphibious assault ship
SeigSoloyvov Tue Jul 21, 2020 1:11 am
Isos wrote:It's like they changed the picture with Microsoft Word by stretching it.
Anyway IMO it's just a basic illustration of a helicopter carrier which has nothing to do with the real design.
It's a computer-generated image which is just weird, teenagers can make better images.
Isos- Posts : 11302
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SeigSoloyvov wrote:The ships have been laid down so now starts a very very long road.
Good luck to em.
Apparently the hull can have 20 choppers max, I feel they should have made 25 the min amount. Considering this is a 25k ton ship, 20 feels like too little.
That's 20 kamov (ka-27 or ka-52). They are big.
If they use ka-62 or other smaller chopper like ansat-2rc they can easily carry 30 or more of them.
SeigSoloyvov- Posts : 3699
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- Post n°42
Re: Project 23900 "Ivan Rogov" Amphibious assault ship
SeigSoloyvov Tue Jul 21, 2020 1:32 am
Isos wrote:SeigSoloyvov wrote:The ships have been laid down so now starts a very very long road.
Good luck to em.
Apparently the hull can have 20 choppers max, I feel they should have made 25 the min amount. Considering this is a 25k ton ship, 20 feels like too little.
That's 20 kamov (ka-27 or ka-52). They are big.
If they use ka-62 or other smaller chopper like ansat-2rc they can easily carry 30 or more of them.
Unlikely, as the Russians stated max of 20 with a MIX all of all those choppers.
The wording was quite clear,.
KA-62 is a civilian version of the KA-60, also only the airforce is getting those.
Do you mean like a KA-31? because the difference in length between those are like only 12ft that sounds like a lot, but when you are on a ship where things need to go in exact places, 12ft is hardly any change.
GarryB- Posts : 39018
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If it was a pure aircraft carrier a general rule of thumb is an aircraft per thousand tons, but considering this is basically a landing ship that will have armour and naval infantry brigades as well as helicopters I think 20 will be fine.
The new Minoga helicopter should have been revealed by the time these ships hit the water, so it should be interesting.
The fact that they call it the Ivan Rogov suggests it is more about a landing craft that something to carry around helicopters anyway.
Helicopters are very very useful, but landing boats and armoured vehicles even more so...
I would think the modular nature and the new Russian engines would make the rather small and light Ka-226 a rather interesting candidate for service on such ships... I can't see these ships being used separately in different simultaneous landings so effectively they will likely be based together and used together which means 40 helicopters and four naval infantry brigades...
The new Minoga helicopter should have been revealed by the time these ships hit the water, so it should be interesting.
The fact that they call it the Ivan Rogov suggests it is more about a landing craft that something to carry around helicopters anyway.
Helicopters are very very useful, but landing boats and armoured vehicles even more so...
I would think the modular nature and the new Russian engines would make the rather small and light Ka-226 a rather interesting candidate for service on such ships... I can't see these ships being used separately in different simultaneous landings so effectively they will likely be based together and used together which means 40 helicopters and four naval infantry brigades...
marcellogo- Posts : 638
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- Post n°44
Re: Project 23900 "Ivan Rogov" Amphibious assault ship
marcellogo Tue Jul 21, 2020 11:14 am
PapaDragon wrote:
Largest ships they laid down since the Cold War are named after some pretty irrelevant people all things considered, apparently one was in charge of logistics and other was political officer
Wasn't there anyone else whose name they could have used? Not a single WW2 soldier, pilot or sailor was available? Not a single commander from that war? Or any other one? It's not like they have shortage of options
This whole thing feels as clunky as that Rotterdam-class looking image
Even names of small cities like Novorosiysk and Sochi would seem more appropriate than this
Well, consider how USN named a whole class of very important ships after a comedian.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Hope-class_vehicle_cargo_ship
And how the recently burned down Bonhomme Richard is named after the french edition title of a book.
PapaDragon- Posts : 13278
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- Post n°45
Re: Project 23900 "Ivan Rogov" Amphibious assault ship
PapaDragon Tue Jul 21, 2020 2:41 pm
marcellogo wrote:...Well, consider how USN named a whole class of very important ships after a comedian.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Hope-class_vehicle_cargo_ship
And how the recently burned down Bonhomme Richard is named after the french edition title of a book.
Bob Hope-class are definitely not very important ships especially considering what else USA was building and operating
And Bonhomme Richard was not just a book, it was the name of very first ship USN was operating even before USN was officially created, name doesn't get more important than that
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Isos- Posts : 11302
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Who cares about the names. The fact that they hide the design is more important.
PapaDragon- Posts : 13278
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- Post n°47
Re: Project 23900 "Ivan Rogov" Amphibious assault ship
PapaDragon Tue Jul 21, 2020 3:38 pm
Isos wrote:Who cares about the names. The fact that they hide the design is more important.
They don't hide the design, they are just too incompetent to commission a usable image
Isos- Posts : 11302
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PapaDragon wrote:Isos wrote:Who cares about the names. The fact that they hide the design is more important.
They don't hide the design, they are just too incompetent to commission a usable image
The image has nothing to do with their design. There is no pantsir or ak-630 on it.
IMO it could be that the design is too close to Mistral design from which they received ToT from french NavalGroup (plans of the design notably) but they signed to destroy the documents and not use them. It could be that they are affraid of french bringing the case to the justice.
ult- Posts : 837
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Isos wrote:
The image has nothing to do with their design. There is no pantsir or ak-630 on it.
IMO it could be that the design is too close to Mistral design from which they received ToT from french NavalGroup (plans of the design notably) but they signed to destroy the documents and not use them. It could be that they are affraid of french bringing the case to the justice.
There is pantsir near the crane, and in front of Ka-52. Look again. Also I bet this is what it will look like in the end. Also the only thing in common with Mistral is that they are both ships.
PapaDragon- Posts : 13278
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- Post n°50
Re: Project 23900 "Ivan Rogov" Amphibious assault ship
PapaDragon Tue Jul 21, 2020 5:01 pm
Isos wrote:....
IMO it could be that the design is too close to Mistral design from which they received ToT from french NavalGroup (plans of the design notably) but they signed to destroy the documents and not use them. It could be that they are affraid of french bringing the case to the justice.
Russia got to keep the blueprints according to contract and can use them however they see fit
They agreed for French to not deliver the ships (and got to pick end customer who had to buy helicopters from them)
Russia could build Mistrals identical to French ones and nothing would be out of order
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