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    Tu-160 "White Swan"

    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Tue 22 Oct 2019, 22:47

    Hole wrote:21.10.2019 (19:52)
    The Russian Aerospace Forces air group consisting of two Tu-160 strategic missile carriers, Il-62 and An-124 Ruslan military transport aircraft will visit the Republic of South Africa
    Bad news for the RN on & around the Falklands! If Russia decides to help Argentina, the UK will have more trouble defending them.
    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK on Tue 22 Oct 2019, 23:30

    Power projection?

    The US has carriers and Russia has Tu-160s. Similar numbers too Laughing
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    Post  PapaDragon on Tue 22 Oct 2019, 23:37

    Tsavo Lion wrote:....Bad news for the RN on & around the Falklands! If Russia decides to help Argentina, the UK will have more trouble defending them.

    Argentinians cried 'Uncle' back when I was still in daycare, that story over

    Isos
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    Post  Isos on Wed 23 Oct 2019, 01:39

    ult wrote:
    Isos wrote:With only around 15 tu-160 in service they shouldn't send them around the world and risk losing them.

    Doesn't stop US with only 21 B-2 from sending them to the U.K.  dunno

    https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2019/08/27/b-2-stealth-bombers-deploy-to-europe/

    It's an operational deployement in a friendly country. Tupolevs trip will be for useless diplomacy (not like they would sell any tupolev to South Africa nor would they make a military alliance with them).

    Those tu-160 will fly in the south hemisphere where there are few airports that can hadlle them in case of emergency landing and I wouldn't trust the countries for giving it back if it happens.


    I remember an accident when a chinese fighter collided with a US P-3 (or another maritime surveillance plane) and the US plane had to land in China. It was returned into pieces ...
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    Post  Isos on Wed 23 Oct 2019, 01:42

    Tsavo Lion wrote:
    Hole wrote:21.10.2019 (19:52)
    The Russian Aerospace Forces air group consisting of two Tu-160 strategic missile carriers, Il-62 and An-124 Ruslan military transport aircraft will visit the Republic of South Africa
    Bad news for the RN on & around the Falklands! If Russia decides to help Argentina, the UK will have more trouble defending them.

    It's south Africa not south america.


    In that case Russia risk using experience of using them up to that point and from that point risk loosing all the new tactics it will develop while using them all the time.

    Planes are replaceable but pilot operational experience and his training in using them are not and when the point in time comes that requires their experience and tactics you will have the planes and no one to use them.

    African airspace has no value for tu-160 pilots. Their main mission is to launched nuclear missile 2000km away from the country being targeted. All the potential countries that they would target are Europeans, China, US and Israel. Training around and in Russia is enough.
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    Post  GarryB on Wed 23 Oct 2019, 02:22

    They weren't in a position to do otherwise... but with Brexit and the terrible state of the british navy... would it be able to defend the Falklands again?

    Boris might use it as a unifying moment to cement his position in power, or he might be the one in charge when they lose the Malvinas.

    Both countries could probably do with a win like this to boost morale in their countries respectively... and the seriously Russophobic British would become an easy target for Russian trolling... perhaps Argentina might want to lease some Su-24s with upgrades and some Su-35s to support them... they could test the new RVV-BD missiles for instance...
    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Wed 23 Oct 2019, 03:37

    It's south Africa not south america.
    from there, armed with LR AShMs, they could effectively close the S. Atlantic/Indian Ocean to British/US shipping to/from the Falklands & Australia/NZ.
    Tu-160s in Cuba/Venezuela could also prevent them from using the Panama Canal to go around the Cape Horn.
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    Post  ult on Wed 23 Oct 2019, 17:30

    Arrival.

    Isos
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    Post  Isos on Wed 23 Oct 2019, 17:57

    Tsavo Lion wrote:
    It's south Africa not south america.
    from there, armed with LR AShMs, they could effectively close the S. Atlantic/Indian Ocean to British/US shipping to/from the Falklands & Australia/NZ.
    Tu-160s in Cuba/Venezuela could also prevent them from using the Panama Canal to go around the Cape Horn.

    What are you smocking ? South Africa is full of british poeple. They would destroy any russian plane on the land if it tries to target british assets.

    You can't close half of the world to US and british with 2 tu-160. Get realistic a little bit.
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Wed 23 Oct 2019, 21:21

    What are you smocking ? South Africa is full of british poeple. They would destroy any russian plane on the land if it tries to target british assets.
    so is Argentina, but they didn't aid the UK in 1982. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_Argentines

    They could send more than 2 + a dozen Tu-95/142s & fighter/support aircraft. Videos:
    https://iz.ru/935519/2019-10-23/opublikovano-video-dozapravki-tu-160-po-puti-v-iuar


    Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Wed 23 Oct 2019, 22:25; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : add link)
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Thu 24 Oct 2019, 05:51

    There would not be much value in basing a White Swan all the way down there, but in terms of impressing the locals with an aircraft they would otherwise never get a chance to see up close, and to talk cooperation and trade and military deals it is a very good ice breaker and conversation starter.
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Thu 24 Oct 2019, 06:48

    They r conducting familiarization flights via Iran, over the Arabian Sea & Indian Ocean, in case they r needed there later, besides the White Swan diplomacy.
    It will take a long time to sail Poseidons there from Kola & Kamchatka!
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    Post  Boshoed on Thu 24 Oct 2019, 09:18

    Isos wrote:
    Tsavo Lion wrote:
    It's south Africa not south america.
    from there, armed with LR AShMs, they could effectively close the S. Atlantic/Indian Ocean to British/US shipping to/from the Falklands & Australia/NZ.
    Tu-160s in Cuba/Venezuela could also prevent them from using the Panama Canal to go around the Cape Horn.

    What are you smocking ? South Africa is full of british poeple. They would destroy any russian plane on the land if it tries to target british assets.

    You can't close half of the world to US and british with 2 tu-160. Get realistic a little bit.

    I'm sorry, I don't understand what you mean by British People would destroy any Russian plane if targeted British assets, I'm a South African, and I know for a fact us engelsmanne are nowhere near that organized, most of us don't care about England anyway.

    It's good to see these TU-160's here, Pretoria and Johannesburg are extremely high in altitude and hot climates,so this would be a good chance to test the TU-160's in these conditions.
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    Post  Isos on Thu 24 Oct 2019, 22:23

    https://mobile.twitter.com/krakek1/status/1176499165133770753


    Nice thread with pictures about a supersonic missile called meteorit and launched by soviet union. It seems there were some 60 tests. The missile could fly around 3000km. Kh-55 was a temporary solution. Its rcs was reduced to 10 db which isn't stealth at all but it had a towed decoy. Anyway a supersonic missile was totally safe from nato defences back in the days and even today they would have hard time intercepting it.
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    Post  GarryB on Sun 27 Oct 2019, 07:34

    Jhelbs post and my reply moved for off topic:

    http://www.russiadefence.net/t3708p25-russian-engagement-in-africa
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    Post  Viktor on Sat 09 Nov 2019, 21:27

    we all knew Tu-160 can do it and now it happened  

    Tu-160 outrun F-35 (with ease so it seems Very Happy )

    Fast and the Furious, Japanese drift: "Outdated" Tu-160 overtook American fighters
    https://tsargrad.tv/news/trojnoj-forsazh-japonskij-drift-ustarevshie-tu-160-obognali-amerikanskie-istrebiteli_225037
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    Post  GarryB on Sun 10 Nov 2019, 05:23

    The amusing thing is that they would even struggle with the Bear let alone Backfire or Blackjack... the F-35 is effectively a subsonic aircraft because the time needed in straight level flight in full AB will dramatically reduce its effective interception range...
    Hole
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    Post  Hole on Sun 10 Nov 2019, 10:29

    New reports suggest that full AB is not very likely. Overheating of the tail structure! Very Happy
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    Post  kvs on Mon 11 Nov 2019, 05:52

    God, the inanity. The flight characteristics of the Tu-160 are not outdated. In fact, the F-35 with its load of contradictory
    parameters including stealth, has sub-par flight characteristics. Recall that the F-117A was a flying coffin because its designers
    chose to make it as stealthy as possible. This necessitated computer assistance to the pilots and even that did not make the
    aerodynamics of this POS good enough.

    We see here the clear progression of "moron disease" in the west. Some two bit jets with half the range of the F-18, decided
    to take on a strategic supersonic bomber with designed features well above of the interceptors. There is the expected
    moron surprise that the Tu-16 could easily outrun the interceptors.
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    Post  GarryB on Mon 11 Nov 2019, 06:43

    Hahahaha... you made a typo there but the amusing thing is that you are probably still right... the F-35 would probably struggle to catch Tu-16s as used by the Chinese too...

    The F-35 neither has the flight range nor the speed to be a useful interceptor, yet in replacing the F-16 and F-18 and in some cases the F-15 that is exactly what it needs to be able to do.

    The problem is that the conflicting requirements to carry internal weapons makes the aircraft a flying brick... and this is what I have been talking about regarding the PAKDA being a flying wing but also being able to supercruise being useful when the next gen western interceptor will be transonic at best most of the time.

    Of course the ability to supercruise for the PAK DA will be improved by it being a low drag flying wing design, but then made much more difficult because to be a strategic range flying wing it wont be slim like the S-70... it will need to be quite chunky to carry all that fuel and that internal heavy payload to strategic ranges so supercruising would be rather less likely unless they really go overboard in terms of engine power... and why would they... who needs high speed when they already have White Swans?
    dino00
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    Post  dino00 on Thu 28 Nov 2019, 10:36

    Source: the first modernized Tu-160M ​​passed for testing

    MOSCOW, Nov 28 - RIA News. The first modernized Tu-160M bomber was handed over to the flight test station for ground and flight tests, a source in the Russian military-industrial complex told RIA Novosti on Thursday.
    "On November 28, the first deeply modernized strategic missile carrier bomber Tu-160M ​​was transferred from production departments to the flight test station KAZ named after SP Gorbunov to work out the stage of factory ground and flight tests," the agency’s interlocutor said.

    According to him, after the completion of ground tests, the Tu-160M ​​will be transferred to the flight test phase.

    https://ria.ru/20191128/1561694119.html
    George1
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    Post  George1 on Thu 28 Nov 2019, 14:02

    dino00 wrote:Source: the first modernized Tu-160M ​​passed for testing

    MOSCOW, Nov 28 - RIA News. The first modernized Tu-160M bomber was handed over to the flight test station for ground and flight tests, a source in the Russian military-industrial complex told RIA Novosti on Thursday.
    "On November 28, the first deeply modernized strategic missile carrier bomber Tu-160M ​​was transferred from production departments to the flight test station KAZ named after SP Gorbunov to work out the stage of factory ground and flight tests," the agency’s interlocutor said.

    According to him, after the completion of ground tests, the Tu-160M ​​will be transferred to the flight test phase.

    https://ria.ru/20191128/1561694119.html

    Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu said at a meeting in Kazan in January that the first serial-produced heavily upgraded Tu-160M strategic bomber would arrive for the troops in 2021. The defense chief specified that the bomber’s production had restarted at the Kazan Aviation Enterprise.

    https://tass.com/defense/1093669

    so it is of new production, not old modernized. Excellent russia
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    Post  wilhelm on Thu 28 Nov 2019, 18:08

    I hope so..but beware.
    I have realised that a lot of the confusion surrounding these projects are about translation from one language to another.
    One could look at those statements together and say it is the first serially produced modernisation, for the existing fleet.
    Confusing...
    dino00
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    Post  dino00 on Thu 28 Nov 2019, 19:55

    George1 wrote:
    dino00 wrote:Source: the first modernized Tu-160M ​​passed for testing

    MOSCOW, Nov 28 - RIA News. The first modernized Tu-160M bomber was handed over to the flight test station for ground and flight tests, a source in the Russian military-industrial complex told RIA Novosti on Thursday.
    "On November 28, the first deeply modernized strategic missile carrier bomber Tu-160M ​​was transferred from production departments to the flight test station KAZ named after SP Gorbunov to work out the stage of factory ground and flight tests," the agency’s interlocutor said.

    According to him, after the completion of ground tests, the Tu-160M ​​will be transferred to the flight test phase.

    https://ria.ru/20191128/1561694119.html

    Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu said at a meeting in Kazan in January that the first serial-produced heavily upgraded Tu-160M strategic bomber would arrive for the troops in 2021. The defense chief specified that the bomber’s production had restarted at the Kazan Aviation Enterprise.

    https://tass.com/defense/1093669

    so it is of new production, not old modernized. Excellent russia

    It's not George, the one built from "scratch" should go to the troops in 2022, this is the modernised one, I will search...


    Last edited by dino00 on Thu 28 Nov 2019, 20:05; edited 1 time in total
    dino00
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    Post  dino00 on Thu 28 Nov 2019, 20:05

    You can see this post
    http://www.russiadefence.net/t1229p850-tu-160-and-tu-95ms-blackjack-and-bears#263719

    http://www.russiadefence.net/t1229p800-tu-160-and-tu-95ms-blackjack-and-bears#244919

    What I interpret is modernised 2021 for vks, built from new 2022

    They're producing both at the same time

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