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    Tu-160 "White Swan"

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Fri Jan 26, 2018 8:26 am


    There should have been 4 unfinished frames left, this one is built from one of those so 3 more remaining

    After that they will be making them from scratch

    No.

    There were four left after production stopped but they completed two of those in the late 1990s. The two remaining were not built because the ability to work on large titanium structures was lost as the forge was in the Ukraine.

    The two remaining aircraft have now been completed and are the new Tu-160Ms being shown as new models, so they will likely look very similar to the old models.

    New aircraft produced now will be from scratch builds so may have more changes made in the design.

    Do new Tu-160Ms extend the bomb bay and revise the rotated launchers for longer missiles like Kh-101/102?

    The two original bomb bays of the Tu-160 were huge already... something like 9 metres long each so there is no need to make them longer for the Kh-101/102.

    Do they have the revised engines in production yet? I heard they plan to order 10 for the first batch and produce 50 in total.

    AFAIK the NK-32 was put back into production but work was being done to upgrade it completely... with all the upgrades and new technology they have applied to their other engines like the PD series (PD14 etc).

    The NK-32 will be upgraded to create the 35-50 ton thrust PD-35 which will be used on the new PAK DA, but also on a new large transport aircraft family including a replacement for the engine currently on the An-124... I suspect one with AB will be used on the Tu-160M2.

    I hope it can also be adapted to upgrade the Tu-22M3M too.
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    Post  Cyberspec Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:21 am

    Regarding the civilian version of the Tu-160, there's an bmpd article about it (quoting Kommersant) below

    Arrow https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3065109.html

    According to Rogozin there's an interest for such an aircraft in the business jet category from super wealthy individuals (mostly Arab Sheiks) so we might see it being developed. But so many changes would be required that it probably won't look much like a Tu-160....they're talking about a new wing, removal of the bomb bay etc....it's estimated price is 140 - 150 million Euros per plane

    Some are even proposing making a bizz jet out of the Su-34 which they say would be much more affordable
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    Post  d_taddei2 Fri Jan 26, 2018 10:30 am

    More on the civvie version

    http://tass.com/defense/986944
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    Post  PapaDragon Fri Jan 26, 2018 2:46 pm

    '
    Sounds a bit silly but hey, if sheiks want to pay for it then what the hell..
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    Post  mnztr Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:11 am

    Can such a beast possibly meet noise and emissions regs anywhere in the known world? I have never has the privilege to see the TU-160 in full afterburner glory but even when I see videos I feel the need to protect my ears.

    PapaDragon wrote:'
    Sounds a bit silly but hey, if sheiks want to pay for it then what the hell..
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    Post  JohninMK Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:18 am

    This is the proposed colour scheme Smile

    Tu-160 "White Swan" - Page 23 DUe8qRzXcAA3ANT
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    Post  Big_Gazza Sat Jan 27, 2018 4:02 am

    Aeroflot cargo deliver... express packages delivered within the hour, daily to major US cities... Twisted Evil
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    Post  GarryB Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:55 am

    Can such a beast possibly meet noise and emissions regs anywhere in the known world? I have never has the privilege to see the TU-160 in full afterburner glory but even when I see videos I feel the need to protect my ears.

    You see lots of photos of the Tu-22M3 in full AB on takeoff with a lovely blue glow and you suspect the very similar engines of the Blackjack would look the same, but in fact the AB on the Blackjack looks white...
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    Post  mnztr Sat Jan 27, 2018 3:10 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    Can such a beast possibly meet noise and emissions regs anywhere in the known world? I have never has the privilege to see the TU-160 in full afterburner glory but even when I see videos I feel the need to protect my ears.

    You see lots of photos of the Tu-22M3 in full AB on takeoff with a lovely blue glow and you suspect the very similar engines of the Blackjack would look the same, but in fact the AB on the Blackjack looks white...

    They both look magnificent, of course the Mig-25 with ABs is still my fave, but they have to be incredibly noisy. If a tiny F-16 with AB is loud, those 4x NKs must be deafening!!
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    Post  Isos Sat Jan 27, 2018 6:43 pm

    What's the point of making it a buisness jet ? It's supersonic only with afterburners so its range will be lower if used all the way.
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    Post  PapaDragon Sat Jan 27, 2018 7:00 pm

    Isos wrote:What's the point of making it a buisness jet ? It's supersonic only with afterburners so its range will be lower if used all the way.

    Ask the sheiks

    Although I doubt anything will become of it, too whacky

    Still, Aeroflot having one of those like on the pic would result in massive amount of brag rights Very Happy
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    Post  mnztr Sat Jan 27, 2018 8:51 pm

    Isos wrote:What's the point of making it a buisness jet ? It's supersonic only with afterburners so its range will be lower if used all the way.

    Are you 100% sure about that? Also does it need FULL afterburner? with its massive range it can probably still have useful range at supersonic speed. Concorde used about 4800 gallons per hour in cruise
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    Post  George1 Sun Jan 28, 2018 1:11 am

    First Tu-160M2 takes flight, production contract for ten aircraft signed

    The first Tu-160M2 aircraft (serial number 08-04, Pyotr Deynekin) was demonstrated publicly during president's visit to the Gorbunov Aviation Plant in Kazan. The aircraft reportedly conducted its maiden flight in late December 2017. Also during the visit the ministry of defense and PAO Tupolev signed a contract to build ten Tu-160M2 aircraft. The cost of the ten-year contract is said to be 160 billion rubles (about $3 billion).

    It is not clear if Pyotr Deynekin is included in the initial order of ten planes. It appears to have been assembled from an unfinished plane left over from the Soviet days. However, it may be considered Tu-160M2 if it is eventually equipped with new avionics. It seems that the Tu-160M2 project is largely a plan to re-start the production of Tu-160 bombers "from scratch."

    UPDATE: Things may be a bit more complicated - Pyotr Deynekin is a Tu-160M, not M2 (h/t DS). Which seems reasonable - it is very much an old Tu-160 design. It gets an "M" when it gets some new avionics. The contract signed in Kazan also appears to cover the construction of Tu-160M, but at some point after 2020 these planes will be converted to Tu-160M2 (and presumably new ones would be built as M2). Other sources say that Tu-160M is a "deep modernization" of Tu-160, which means that these are not new planes. This would mean that the contract would cover only modernization and not a new construction. In this case, production of Tu-160M2 would be covered by a different contract.

    http://russianforces.org/blog/2018/01/first_tu-160m2_takes_flight_pr.shtml
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    Post  d_taddei2 Sun Jan 28, 2018 9:30 am

    There has been recent calls for a concorde type plane to come back so I don't see why not. If you consider that Russia already has a working aircraft conversion to civilian airline wouldn't take long. On the other hand any aircraft manufacturer now would have to design a plane from scratch and would take years and years before ready they could save time and money by buying Russian tu-160 airliner the only real obstacle is politics. I actually think it would be a success but only a handful would be built. And rich chinese businessmen could fly from China to Moscow very fast. Might even find a presidential aircraft design am sure Putin would love it.
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    Post  GarryB Sun Jan 28, 2018 11:28 am

    With its wings swept back it is rather low drag so while it might use ABs to break the speed of sound it can likely cruise supersonically in dry thrust so its range would be rather good anyway.

    With the new engines being developed and a redesign with new materials I would suspect the new aircraft to be both lighter and with more engine power, so higher speed flight should be possible.

    Note the original Tu-144 burned a lot of fuel because it needed full AB all through the flight, but the last model Tu-144 had the same NK-32 engines of the Tu-160 and it did not need AB to maintain supersonic flight.
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Wed Jan 31, 2018 1:16 am

    I'm sure, if SSJ variant is built, 1-2 will be reserved for Air Force 1/VIP duty, just in case! Russia orders first 10 Tu-160M2 bombers
    http://www.janes.com/article/77448/russia-orders-first-10-tu-160m2-bombers

    I think most, if not all of those will all be brand new, not modernized from Tu-160Ms. The modernization is a different contract; it'll put some of them off the line & increase wear & tear on those staying on active duty. Plus, some Tu-160Ms will be needed for NAF &/ other specialized variants before new 1s r built for those missions.
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    Post  GarryB Wed Jan 31, 2018 3:44 am

    The two rebuilds will likely be used for testing, and the first ten built from scratch will likely incorporate changes needed or wanted to improve the design.

    If they can finish the last two then they can build from scratch so the first ten can be built no problem.

    The question is, will they change the design... will it have the under nose optical system?

    Will there be any other changes in design?

    Will it have the same hooded flaps over the air intake like the Su-57?
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    Post  AMCXXL Wed Jan 31, 2018 6:19 am

    Tsavo Lion wrote:I'm sure, if SSJ variant is built, 1-2 will be reserved for Air Force 1/VIP duty, just in case! Russia orders first 10 Tu-160M2 bombers
    http://www.janes.com/article/77448/russia-orders-first-10-tu-160m2-bombers

    I think most, if not all of those will all be brand new, not modernized from Tu-160Ms. The modernization is a different contract; it'll put some of them off the line & increase wear & tear on those staying on active duty. Plus, some Tu-160Ms will be needed for NAF &/ other specialized variants before new 1s r built for those missions.

    The existing 16 Tu-160 will be modernized to Tu-160M(1)
    The contract is for 10 new built Tu-160M2, included a couple with a stored airframe that probably are for test and instruction, and other 8 for a new squadron
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    Post  d_taddei2 Wed Jan 31, 2018 9:38 am

    So that's $270mn per aircraft I would imagine will come down once full scale production comes into force. But it's still cheaper than if any western nation wanted to produce such aircraft. In fact the Usa lancer B1B was rumoured to cost $280mn per aircraft in the 90's and put the cost much higher if one were to be built today and the lancer is nothing compared to the Tu-160M2
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy Wed Jan 31, 2018 10:50 am

    GarryB wrote:With its wings swept back it is rather low drag so while it might use ABs to break the speed of sound it can likely cruise supersonically in dry thrust so its range would be rather good anyway.

    With the new engines being developed and a redesign with new materials I would suspect the new aircraft to be both lighter and with more engine power, so higher speed flight should be possible.

    Note the original Tu-144 burned a lot of fuel because it needed full AB all through the flight, but the last model Tu-144 had the same NK-32 engines of the Tu-160 and it did not need AB to maintain supersonic flight.

    The madness behind Tu-160 in civil version can be explained then big Russian companies like Rosatom, Rosneft or Gazprom can use it as corpo jest. If they would carry missile inside and land in Cuba or Venezuela it is different story.
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    Post  GarryB Wed Jan 31, 2018 10:59 pm

    The shit Russia gets from the west you would think that is exactly what they would do... so in a way I would like to see them start acting the way the west claims they are... if you are doing the time you might as well do the crime.
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    Post  mnztr Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:46 am

    crazy orange/golden exhaust of the TU-160

    Anyone know why this is? I read somewhere there is a nitrogen rich additive added at full power to extend engine life. Anyone know what this is?
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    Post  Cheetah Thu Feb 01, 2018 3:08 pm

    That is correct.



    Specifically, go to 16:54
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    Post  KomissarBojanchev Thu Feb 08, 2018 3:16 am

    Would it be possible and useful to add stealthy heat dissipating exhausts on the Tu-160M2? Could radar blockers also be added in the intakes?
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    Post  George1 Sat Feb 10, 2018 1:19 pm

    And "a little bit" about Tu-160M2 bombers

    The magazine "Air & Cosmos" published an article "La Russie va augmenter sa flotte de bombradiers lourds". A number of its provisions are of unconditional interest to the domestic reader. Our blog provides a number of its provisions.

    So, it is noted that on January 25, 2018 in Kazan, in the presence of President Vladimir Putin, a new strategic bomber Tu-160 flew. The plane was rolled out on November 16, 2017, and in December it made its first flight. And the flight was demonstrative in front of the president. The aircraft was named "Peter Deinekin" in honor of the former commander of Long-Range Aviation and commander-in-chief of the Russian Air Force in 1992-1998. He died on August 19, 2017.

    Vladimir Putin met with the workers of the Kazan Aviation Plant (KAZ). On the same day, January 25, Ilyushin's KB reported that a prototype Il-78M-90A refueling aircraft took off in Ulyanovsk. According to the KB, in the long term it will become the main aircraft-refueler of the Russian Air Force. Similarly Tu-160, its first real flight took place on 19 January.
    weather conditions, but also in the absence of an aerodrome network. "

    Tu-160 "White Swan" - Page 23 5167764_original

    The new Tu-160 has a serial number 8-04 (so in the text - bmpd). This is the fourth aircraft of the eighth series and the 35th produced aircraft, without taking into account prototypes for ground tests. Production of the Tu-160 was carried out in Kazan in 1988-1994, after which four unfinished fuselage remained at the plant. The first of them, 8-02, was handed over to the military in 1999, followed by 8-03 in 2007, and 8-05 still remains at the enterprise. There are 16 Tu-160 aircraft (not including 8-04) in the Russian Air Force, all of them are part of the 121st heavy bomber regiment in Engels.

    To fulfill its main task - intercontinental flights as a carrier of strategic weapons, the Tu-160 speed at an altitude of 11-12 km is 0.77M, which allows to have a flight range of 12,300 km without refueling with six cruise missiles X-55. At the theater of military operations, the aircraft overcomes enemy air defense at a speed of 2000 km / h at high altitude. The range of flight at a speed of 1.5 M is 2000 km. A flight at a low altitude with a speed of 1030 km / h using the system of circumference is not applied. For the first time, the Tu-160 was used in combat conditions on November 17, 2015, when it launched X-101 missiles against targets in Syria.

    The new Tu-160M2 was built not only to increase the number of strategic bombers. The main goal is to prepare production at KAPO for the production of 50 aircraft at a rate of three aircraft per year. Aircraft of the new Tu-160M2 ("product 70M2") retain the old glider, but will be equipped with modernized engines, new airborne equipment and weapons. The first new Tu-160M2 is planned to be launched in the air in 2021. The resumption of production of new Tu-160M2 will preserve the serviceability of the existing Tu-160 fleet, which lacks spare parts for planned repairs.

    The idea of ​​resuming production of the Tu-160 was announced in April 2015. The decision apparently was made some time before. Tu-160M2 is very important for Russians, and in the current situation, while other programs suffer from a lack of funding, this project seems to receive additional funding. Thus, of the 178 programs that were funded in the aviation industry in 2015, 54 were cut, and 16 new ones were opened. All of them were related to the project of resuming production of Tu-160M2.

    Maintaining the airworthiness of the Tu-160 fleet and the production of the Tu-160M2 require new engines. JSC "ODK-Kuznetsov" from Samara in August 2014 signed a contract for the production of NK-32 series 2 engines, recommencing it after a pause of 25 years. The engine NK-32-02 was developed in 1987, but its production was not carried out because of problems with financing. Modernization of NK-32-02 touched the compressor and turbine blades, internal aerodynamics, and also improved internal cooling. As a result, the consumption of kerosene decreased, and the take-off thrust of 25 tons remained unchanged. The Tupolev design bureau says that in tests with new engines and basic load (six cruise missiles, that is, a mass of nine tons), the Tu-160 can overcome 13950 km, that is, 1650 km more than the standard version. Now the engine for the Tu-160M2 is designated as NK-32-02M2.

    On October 23, 2014, the project of modernization of the control system and on-board equipment of Tu-160 combat units in the version of Tu-160M ​​(product of 70M) was approved. The new Tu-160M2 is very likely equipped with the same equipment. This new equipment for M / M2 options should be ready by 2020-2021.

    The existing on-board radar "Obzor-K" will be replaced by a new radar of Novella's family HB1.70, which JSC "Zaslon" is engaged in. Ulyanovsk KBP is developing a new cockpit with LCD monitors for the Tu-160M. The navigation system NO-70M with the inertial BINS-SP-1 system, the ANS-2009M astronavigation system, and the navigation computer will also be installed on the plane. Among other systems, the navigation radar DISS-021-70, the receiver of space navigation A737DP, the autopilot ABSU-200MT and the communication system C-505-70 are on display. The on-board defense complex "Redut-70M" is a completely new development, created specifically for the Tu-160M ​​/ M2. Research Institute "Kulon" is developing for this aircraft a system of state recognition of BKR-70M.

    Tu-160 "Valentin Bliznyuk" is a prototype of the Tu-160M. In 2006, this aircraft became the prototype of the modification of the Tu-160M1 "the first stage of modernization", in which there were elements requiring deep modernization, such as a "glass cabin" and a new radar. Earlier equipment was removed. For example, the modernized aircraft has wired portholes, which previously served as an optical sighting bomber sight in the nose fairing. Apparently, it was removed. Modernization of the first stage and other works are being carried out in Kazan. Since November 2014, five aircrafts have been upgraded to version M1, which were transferred to the VKS.

    Regardless of the modernization of equipment, Russian bombers receive new weapons. Since 2003, Tu-160 (and Tu-95MS) have been modified for the use of Kh-555 missiles, which are a non-nuclear version of the Kh-55 missile. Approximately since 2011, the aircraft can use up to 12 new missiles from the new generation nuclear weapon X-102 and its non-nuclear version X-101. The X-101/102 family rockets are about 1.4 m longer and 1 ton heavier than the X-55SM and X-555 missiles. It is also necessary to develop a new multi-position launcher (drum), which can take these new missiles in the bomb compartments. Initial problems with insufficient strength with a turn and drum mechanism were resolved during 2015. The Tu-95MS has a less bulky bomb compartment, so the X-101/102 missiles can only be used on them from external pylons. The maximum range of the X-101 is estimated at 3000-4000 km. The nuclear option is even greater.

    Specially for the Tu-160M ​​/ M2 and PAK DA, the company "Raduga" is developing an X-BD cruise missile, which is an X-101/102 version with increased range. Since the Tu-160 project is rooted in 1972, it then provided for the deployment of X-45 missiles with a length of 10.8 meters, and the size of the bomb compartment was subject to this. Armament was changed with the advent of X-55 missiles 6 meters in length, but the dimensions of the compartment did not change. The length of the X-101 is 7.4 meters, which means that there is still little room left in the compartment.

    Two other missiles are being developed for the Tu-160 and the PAK YES are X-SD and GZUR. X-SD is developed by Raduga, a subsonic cruise missile using the X-101 guidance system, but its hull is more modest in size, similar to the American JASSM AGM-158. The guidance system includes a combination of an inertial navigation system with correction for GPS / GLONASS in the march area and an electronic optical digital correlation system "Otblesk" (analogous to DSMAC) for the final section. R & D on X-SD began in the 1990s, but was stopped for several years. X-SD (or "product 715") has a length of approximately 6 meters and can be placed in the bomb compartments of Tu-22M3 and Tu-95MS bombers. Its mass is about 1600 kg. It is equipped with a low-resource engine product 37-04 of the Omsk Engine-Building Design Bureau with a thrust of 350 kg and has a range of 1500 km at a cruising speed of 700 km / h. The rocket body consists of inclined planes, which simultaneously reduces the radar visibility and allows it to be placed in a "drum" for six missiles.

    Tu-160M ​​/ M2 will be able to raise up to 12 X-SD missiles on two drum launchers. The purchase of X-SD missiles is provided for by the State Arms Program for 2018-2027. For cruise missiles, there are two possibilities to survive in the presence of a powerful air defense system - due to the low visibility of X-SD ("product 715") or high speed ("product 75"). The last missile is being developed jointly by the head enterprise of the Corporation "Tactical Missile Armament" in Korolev and the "Rainbow" from Dubna as part of the GZUR program (hypersonic guided missile). GZUR is a missile that achieves a speed of 6M and a range of 1500 km for a flight at high altitude, capable of hitting various ground targets. It is very likely that its main task is to combat surface targets. Its dimensions are estimated to be 6 meters long at a mass around 1500 kg. This missile will be equipped with the engine "product 70" developed by TMKB "Soyuz". In the series the rocket should go in 2020.

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3088196.html

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