Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #6

LMFS wrote:Maybe it is my imagination, but I would say the radar blocker is visible in this picture

That's about as close of a view of that "weapon's bay" and one thing for certain is they were right about the 101KS-P in that chart previously posted with all the sensors and that looks to be the Posadka landing device and their description is:

which comprises a small infrared imaging sensor to aid in low-level flying and landing; it is fitted in the forward section of the canoe shaped underwing missile bay.

You can certainly see that and the sensor looks a bit different than the drawing on the chart but that's ok. At least the whole thing is very noticeable. But the rest of that weapons bay doesn't show any signs of doors that open up at all. I was really hoping to see something definitive that would be convincing once and for all, but it yet eludes us again! Do you see it still as a weapon's bay even now that you get a pretty good look at it and it doesn't have any seams that show where panels would open and close? I really am trying to see it and be 100% convinced like you fellas. Looks more like a cover or a cap of some sorts.

You see that gap under the wing? The whole thing is a lid and opens donwards.

Gomig-21 wrote:That's about as close of a view of that "weapon's bay" and one thing for certain is they were right about the 101KS-P in that chart previously posted with all the sensors and that looks to be the Posadka landing device and their description is:

which comprises a small infrared imaging sensor to aid in low-level flying and landing; it is fitted in the forward section of the canoe shaped underwing missile bay.

You can certainly see that and the sensor looks a bit different than the drawing on the chart but that's ok.

It is just a small aperture right at the front of those bays, I don't see any specially noticeable difference to what we had already seen about it

 At least the whole thing is very noticeable.  But the rest of that weapons bay doesn't show any signs of doors that open up at all.  I was really hoping to see something definitive that would be convincing once and for all, but it yet eludes us again!  Do you see it still as a weapon's bay even now that you get a pretty good look at it and it doesn't have any seams that show where panels would open and close?  I really am trying to see it and be 100% convinced like you fellas.  Looks more like a cover or a cap of some sorts.

Seriously? There is a very noticeable gap at the top of the bay in that very picture. The hinges are placed at the lower side of the door, so when it opens it works as an additional barrier to prevent ingestion of the rocket gases by the plane's engine. There are tons of pictures in the web showing the bay door's gap and even the door itself:





The patent I already mentioned:

Hole wrote:You see that gap under the wing? The whole thing is a lid and opens donwards.

Yep, I did notice the gap for sure.  I think because a few years ago the general consensus was that it opened with double doors like it shows in this image.  And so looking for the gap at the bottom of that V bay and not seeing one raised the question.  



So we're saying the whole V-shaped cover is hinged at the opposite side of that gap to the bottom of the wing and the entire V opens towards the engine or center of the aircraft?  That does seem like it would be the only way knowing and seeing everything we can so far, aside from any information from patents or anything like that. Although the info LMFS is posting suggests something else, it seems.

LMFS wrote:It is just a small aperture right at the front of those bays, I don't see any specially noticeable difference to what we had already seen about it

I was just making note of it that it's actually visible in that pic you posted.  In the graph it showed the sensor or lens or aperture whatever you call it as squared or rectangular when it's actually round.  But that's hardly a big deal.  That's pretty cool that they took advantage of a spot like that to make important use out of it.  Plus I think it gives the bay a solid front end and if we look at one of the pics from the first flight when the composites and other panel materials were differentiated by the yellow and light blue color, you can see the back end of the bay also has a solid end to it and the door is in between.  Makes sense.

LMFS wrote:Seriously? There is a very noticeable gap at the top of the bay in that very picture. The hinges are placed at the lower side of the door, so when it opens it works as an additional barrier to prevent ingestion of the rocket gases by the plane's engine. There are tons of pictures in the web showing the bay door's gap and even the door itself:





The patent I already mentioned:

Mmm...so you're saying (and that bottom patent is also suggesting the same thing it seems) that the hinges are at the bottom of the V shape right at the point? So only the outside half of the bay opens and swings downward at the bottom of the bay while the missile gets extended outward until it clears the bay and then gets fired? That makes sense. That's why I was looking for a gap of some kind at the bottom of that V shape where the hinges would be but couldn't see any. Maybe it's just a super tight joint.

Gomig-21 wrote: In the graph it showed the sensor or lens or aperture whatever you call it as squared or rectangular when it's actually round.  

This?



101KS-P is identical to all pictures, round

Mmm...so you're saying (and that bottom patent is also suggesting the same thing it seems) that the hinges are at the bottom of the V shape right at the point?  So only the outside half of the bay opens and swings downward at the bottom of the bay while the missile gets extended outward until it clears the bay and then gets fired?  That makes sense.  That's why I was looking for a gap of some kind at the bottom of that V shape where the hinges would be but couldn't see any.  Maybe it's just a super tight joint.

Yes that's how it works

Apparently the second "first" serial has flown for the first time in Komsomolsk on Amur:

http://www.komcity.ru/news/?id=39314

EDIT: I remove the picture, since it was confirmed that it is an old one

https://www.militarynews.ru/story.asp?rid=0&nid=540554&lang=RU

So the new Su-57 engine has a 50 year life span?

thegopnik wrote:https://www.militarynews.ru/story.asp?rid=0&nid=540554&lang=RU

So the new Su-57 engine has a 50 year life span?

I assume that is a misinterpretation, they mean that the engine is a clean sheet design and the new basis of the fighter engines for the next 50 years, a bit like the AL-31 has been the basis until now. Operational life of engines is measured in thousands of flight hours, not in years since it depends on how intensively they are used. 4000 h for izd. 117S for instance means 20 years at 200 h per year.

LMFS wrote:

thegopnik wrote:https://www.militarynews.ru/story.asp?rid=0&nid=540554&lang=RU

So the new Su-57 engine has a 50 year life span?

I assume that is a misinterpretation, they mean that the engine is a clean sheet design and the new basis of the fighter engines for the next 50 years, a bit like the AL-31 has been the basis until now.

It definitely means they can be modernized a half-century from now, but if they can get a proper spin-detonation engine off the ground than that engine will definitely replace the current (and future second stage) Su-57 engines.

magnumcromagnon wrote:
It definitely means they can be modernized a half-century from now, but if they can get a proper spin-detonation engine off the ground than that engine will definitely replace the current (and future second stage) Su-57 engines.

The most logical evolution would be the three-stream VCE, I don't know if it can be obtained as a modification of izd. 30 or will be a totally new design. It should appear way before 50 years, actually by 2030 US will have them operating or close to it.

Arrow wrote:So the US continues to lead the way in jet engines?

I am assuming he is talking about this https://www.geaviation.com/military/engines/ge-adaptive-cycle-engine and we don't even know how much of an improvement the izdelie 30 has over the older engine. or for the matter of fact that Russia is the only country that had undergone projects for aircrafts to maintain combat capabilities like using radars in hypersonic speeds while the U.S. has not introduced that AFAIK.

@thegopnik:

Russia is also working on the three stream engine, confirmed by Marchukov. We do not know how far they are in the development, but what they said leads to think they are at the stage of calculations. And also as you say, we do not know how good izd. 30 is, but we know it has the highest specific thrust globally and a low SFC, so how far they are behind US is very relative or even pure speculation.

LMFS wrote:@thegopnik:

Russia is also working on the three stream engine, confirmed by Marchukov. We do not know how far they are in the development, but what they said leads to think they are at the stage of calculations. And also as you say, we do not know how good izd. 30 is, but we know it has the highest specific thrust globally and a low SFC, so how far they are behind US is very relative or even pure speculation.

Provide sources of the magical three stream engine from the U.S. and Russia. Besides high speeds fuel efficiency is also a part of the izdelie 30 design. And if they were making a magical three stream that can be for a separate design than a 5th or 6th gen aircraft

This is pointless it is like comparing fruits to vegetables. The Su-57 1st stage engine in fuel efficiency is better than the F-22 and in terms of size and weight. F-35 in size, weight and engine design cannot be compared to those two aircrafts. Do you know which particular aircrafts will have this 3 stream engine that you speak of?

A three stream engine is a VCE with two bypass circuits, the US adaptive engine is one of them. Still not operational on any aircraft but US has had a series of demonstrators and risk reduction programs and seems to be pretty far along the path to production. As said they need these engines because platform wise they have been surpassed clearly by the Su-57. It is expected that they will be used by F-35 and NGAD

Arrow wrote:Russia is behind the USA in typical jet engines, but in scramjet technology it is the leader.

With no aircraft engine to compare this is the drawn conclusion? We cant even have data access to the ADVENT or the Izdelie 30 in fuel efficiency and range and I am tired of running into the same glownigger with multiple user accounts on multiple forums.

Flight tests of the second production Su-57 fighter have begun

As reported on October 31, 2020 by the web resource komcity.ru , in Komsomolsk-on-Amur, the second production prototype (aircraft T-50S-2, serial number 51002) of the fifth generation Su-57 fighter, built by Komsomolsk-on-Amur, made its first flight Aviation Plant named after Yu.A. Gagarin (KnAAZ - a branch of PJSC "Company" Sukhoi "as part of PJSC" UAC "of the State Corporation Rostec). The second serial sample of the fifth generation Su-57 fighter (T-50S-2 aircraft, serial number 51002) during the final assembly stage in the workshop of the Komsomolsk-on-Amur Aviation Plant named after Yu.A. Gagarin (KnAAZ - a branch of PJSC "Company" Sukhoi ". Komsomolsk-on-Amur, 12.08.2020 (c) PJSC" United Aircraft Corporation "



According to reports in the profile group of the social network VKontakte , in fact, on October 31, not the first, but the fourth flight of the second production model of the Su-57 took place.

Recall that in August 2018, at the Army-2018 International Military-Technical Forum, the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation and PJSC Sukhoi Company signed a contract to supply the Armed Forces with the first two serial fifth-generation fighters Su-57 (in the guise of T- 50S - T-50S-1 and T-50S-2) with engines of the "first stage" ("product 117"). Terms of contract execution - 2018-2020, with delivery of one aircraft in 2019 and 2020. In June 2019 at the International military-technical forum "Army-2019" Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation and PJSCfor the supply to the Armed Forces, a total of 76 fifth-generation serial fighters Su-57 (including the first two aircraft contracted in 2018). The deadline for the execution of the contract is 2027.

The first production aircraft Su-57 (aircraft T-50S-1, serial number 51001, tail number "01 blue"), built by KnAAZ, made its first flight in Komsomolsk-on-Amur in early December 2019 and was planned to be handed over to the Ministry of Defense On December 27, but on December 24, 2019, at the final stage of factory tests, it crashed as a result of an accident, due to, presumably, a failure in the aircraft control system.

The loss of the first production prototype of the Su-57 entailed major litigation at the personal level, including a change in the management of PJSC Sukhoi Company. According to available information, Sukhoi will be forced to compensate for the loss at its own expense by manufacturing another plane to replace the crashed one.

Now, flight tests have begun on the second of the two production prototypes of the Su-57 contracted in 2018. It should be transferred to the Russian Ministry of Defense by the end of the year.

https://bmpd.livejournal.com/4176213.html

Tass vs interfax  

The first serial Su-57 is planned to be handed over to the RF Ministry of Defense in November - source

https://www.militarynews.ru/story.asp?rid=1&nid=540962&lang=RU

Source: the first serial Su-57 will be handed over to the Ministry of Defense in December

The interlocutor of the agency clarified that the supply of fighters with a second stage engine is planned to begin in 2022.

https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/9891981

dino00 is the fastest gun hahaha

The real news here is that they plan to start deliveries of 2nd stage engines already in 2022? That is two years before we were expecting

As we keep on saying, Russia is seriously accelerating military development and procurement. In this case,not even one squadron of the Su will be completed when they start switching to the second stage engine. Impressive.

Some details:

in 2021 - four more such aircraft," the source said.

According to him, in the future, the rate of delivery of the Su-57 to the military department will increase up to 15 vehicles per year. "As a result, the contract for 76 Su-57s signed in 2019 until 2028 will definitely be fulfilled on time," the source said.

The amount for 2021 corresponds to the numbers we had already, the 15 per year is a bit beyond the 12 or one sqd per year we saw at KnAAZ.

PhSt wrote:This is probably a dumb question, but why are they calling the new engines (with serrated nozzles) 2nd stage? is there like a 3rd stage engine? are the 2nd stage engines only temporary? a stop gap?

They call it second stage just because it comes after the first

It is planed to be the definitive engine for the Su-57, at least that we know.

But this shitty F-35´s will have to do the jobs that for example Buk/Tor/Pantsir (air defence) and Tornado-S/2S35 (fire support) are doing in Russia.