Revisionism about WWII and USSR

They could at least document these women since their case is a war crime.

Tsavo Lion wrote:I bet not all of those raped were anti-semites. Don't paint them the same color. Most Germans didn't even know about the killings in concentration camps run by the SS.

In the end, they knew it was beyond hopeless they could not fight the United States and they knew it.

They also knew it before the war started their entire plan was based around one critical naval battle that would allow them to dominate but they knew in a sustained war against the US they would lose.

it is true the PM did say when the USSR entered the war, the situation was beyond feasible at that stage but the war was already over for them well beyond that point.

Trying to say the reason Japan surrendered was due to the USSR is nothing short of propaganda revisionist history.

The USSR never would have been able to threaten Japan mainland if the Navy was still intact,..

We dealt with the bulk of the Imperial Army, the USSR just cleaned up the scraps.

• Japanese medical data:
  
  
  
  • 455,700^[20]–700,000 military dead^[21]
    
  • 1,934,820 wounded and missing^[22]
    
  • 22,293+ captured^[c]
    
  • Total: 2,500,000+ military casualties (1937 to 1945 excluding Manchuria and Burma campaign)
    Japanese military casualties from 1937-1945 have been estimated at 1,834,000, of which 1,740,000 were killed or missing. Some 388,600 of these were incurred in China, another 210,830 in southeast Asia, and the rest in the Pacific. Of these, some 300,386 were naval fatalities, and some 334 Japanese warships were sunk during the war.
    
  • http://www.pwencycl.kgbudge.com/C/a/Casualties.htm
    
  
  
  

SeigSoloyvov wrote:There are no records nor proof Japan was ever willing to surrender until the Emperor overruled Tojo, what you are talking about is pure speculation that hasn't been proven at all.

I know the stories the one about how Japan in secret offered the US a deal and the other one about how they tried to use the USSR as a middle man, But both stories do not have any facial evidence behind them.

Don't quote Wikipedia to me as a source that place isn't reliable at all when it comes to numbers.

• 
  
  • Japanese military casualties from 1937-1945 have been estimated at 1,834,000, of which 1,740,000 were killed or missing. Some 388,600 of these were incurred in China , another 210,830 in southeast Asia, and the rest in the Pacific. Of these, some 300,386 were naval fatalities, and some 334 Japanese warships were sunk during the war.
    
  • http://www.pwencycl.kgbudge.com/C/a/Casualties.htm- this isn't  Wikipedia
    
  
  
  

For example the Chinese only killed about 200k, by 1944 many divisions have been removed from China to combat US operations.

kvs wrote:

SeigSoloyvov wrote:There are no records nor proof Japan was ever willing to surrender until the Emperor overruled Tojo, what you are talking about is pure speculation that hasn't been proven at all.

I know the stories the one about how Japan in secret offered the US a deal and the other one about how they tried to use the USSR as a middle man, But both stories do not have any facial evidence behind them.

You are a propaganda parrot with zero facts to back up your drivel.   You fob off the destruction of the 1 million man sized Kwantung army as if it was nothing because you are parroting your
beloved masturbatory chauvinist exceptionalist ubermenschen fantasy narratives.    

https://warfarehistorynetwork.com/2020/01/07/the-soviet-invasion-of-manchuria-led-to-japans-greatest-defeat/

As if some sunk carriers are anywhere close to this.    But yanqui self-declared ubermenschen must always denigrate the achievements of others and pump up their own irrelevant
"triumphs" such as Iwo Jima.    

What SS, the drone, fails to acknowledge is that Fat Man and Little Boy were not mass production bombs.   It was clear to all the general staffs in August of 1945 that these were
boutique weapons with no real battlefield application.  

SeigSoloyvov wrote:"The enemy has begun to employ a new and most cruel bomb, the power of which to do damage is, indeed, incalculable, taking the toll of many innocent lives. Should we continue to fight, not only would it result in an ultimate collapse and obliteration of the Japanese nation, but also it would lead to the total extinction of human civilization."

SeigSoloyvov wrote:Actually you just lied the USSR removed lots of their forces from the border seeing Japan was honoring its peace deal with the, this is well documented in history it wasn't until Germany was defeated they built them back up.- they sent only 3 divisions to fight Germans- see my earlier post: FYI, a far larger force remained there: ..of all the divisions transferred west after August 1941, only three rifle divisions originated with Siberian personnel and only two went into the Western Front defending Moscow. Where are the ‘newly arrived Siberian divisions being encountered all along the front protecting Moscow’? To fulfil this statement there would need to have been 10-20 Siberian divisions in Western Front. The only division which actually earned the reputation bestowed upon the Siberian divisions in 1941 was the 32nd Rifle Division which defended near Borodino in October 1941. Ironically this division was formed in 1922 in the then Volga Military District and only a portion of its personnel came from western Siberian oblasts. ..
Most sources claim the information from Sorge’s spy ring came in October 1941 at the earliest and November 1941 at the latest. Yet it is apparent that the decision to move the vast majority of available divisions west was made well before this time and no new rifle divisions were actually shipped after October.
Whichever way data is analysed, the whole Siberian transfer story is a myth in all respects: including timing, numbers, source of personnel and overall combat performance.
[url=http://www.operationbarbarossa.net/the-siberian-divisions-and-the-battle-for-moscow-in-1941-42/#Red Army Divisions Transferred West from June to July 1941]http://www.operationbarbarossa.net/the-siberian-divisions-and-the-battle-for-moscow-in-1941-42/#Red%20Army%20Divisions%20Transferred%20West%20from%20June%20to%20July%201941[/url]

Even if the few Siberian divisions exhibited a higher than average combat proficiency in the winter of 1941/42, their contribution was almost insignificant compared to the mass of newly mobilised units. There is no doubt that the 1941 Soviet mobilisation programme was simply the largest and fastest wartime mobilisation in history. The multitude of average Soviet soldiers from all over the USSR that made up these units saved the day, and definitely not the existing units transferred west after June 1941, or the mostly non-existent and mythical Siberian divisions.
[url=http://www.operationbarbarossa.net/the-siberian-divisions-and-the-battle-for-moscow-in-1941-42/#Where did the New Red Army Divisions Come From?]http://www.operationbarbarossa.net/the-siberian-divisions-and-the-battle-for-moscow-in-1941-42/#Where%20did%20the%20New%20Red%20Army%20Divisions%20Come%20From?[/url]

The Winter War with Finland had shown that the 1939 rifle division was too large and the 5/41 reorganization cut manpower from 18,800 to 14,400. Then, 3 divisions x14.4K troops=43.2K troops. Gen. Vlasov's ROA had a Corps of 50K(!) troops as of April 1945, mostly comprised of former Soviet POWs & deserters.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrey_Vlasov#Defection

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Liberation_Army

By August, Soviet strength in the Far East had doubled, from the former 40 divisions to 80 divisions with strong supporting forces. 
https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/meet-operation-august-storm-when-russia-crushed-japan-manchuria-112701?page=0%2C1

After the 3 divisions were transferred to the Western USSR in 1941, those remaining 40 divisions (x14.4K=576K troops) + Ks partisans being prepared to operate on occupied territory were just enough to defend against any Japanese invasion until 1945. But to invade Manchuria+Korea & defeat the Kwantung Army there needed 2x of that:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_invasion_of_Manchuria#Soviets

The # of troops sent to fight the Wehrmacht from the FE was only ~7.32% of the total personnel stationed there.
The bottom line is that during WWII China lost up to 20M people, 2nd only to the Soviet Union:
The scale of China’s involvement in the war was massive. Chiang, for example, fielded four million troops at the Nationalist’s height, while China as a whole lost an estimated 14 million in the war. Had China folded, Japan’s capacity to fight the U.S. or even the Soviets would have been vastly amplified. ..Had Chiang fallen and had China become pro-Japanese, then Japan would have had a perfect launch pad to attack the Soviet Union in the late 1930s, early 1940s. And he was much more worried about that. So it was a very practical, non-altruistic reason for Stalin to essentially give assistance to the Chinese nationalists during that period.
But the fact is that it was very helpful during the early campaign from battles including central China, in the Yangtze delta around Shanghai, and so forth. Although it was not able to prevent the Nationalists from having to withdraw to the interior of China, Soviet air force support and military assistance and material was important in making sure that the Nationalists at least managed to stand up against the Japanese.
https://psmag.com/news/china-lost-14-million-people-world-war-ii-forgotten-66482

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Sino-Japanese_War

https://www.britannica.com/event/Second-Sino-Japanese-War/Stalemate

If China had surrendered in 1938, Japan would have controlled China for a generation or more. Japan's forces might have turned toward the USSR, Southeast Asia, or even British India.
https://www.cnn.com/2015/08/31/opinions/china-wwii-forgotten-ally-rana-mitter/index.html

Despite the prolonged onslaught of Japan’s modern military machine for eight long years, a divided China, mostly on its own, put up a heroic fight against steep odds, pinning down 600,000-800,000 [NYT] of its troops and playing a crucial role in weakening Japan by inflicting heavy casualties on forces that were better armed, supplied and trained. The official death toll for Japanese soldiers killed in China between 1937 and 1945 is 480,000.
https://www.japantimes.co.jp/culture/2013/08/24/books/book-reviews/chinas-contribution-to-japans-defeat/#.XkrXqShKiyI

https://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/18/opinion/the-worlds-wartime-debt-to-china.html

He said simply put, with the USSR in the war it was beyond hopeless and they must surrender but he had already wanted to surrender along with most of their leader well before then.- yes, he took a stand, & it highlights the fact that most of his generals & admirals wanted to keep fighting.

The PM also said btw..
“The atomic bomb provided an additional reason for surrender as well as an extremely favorable opportunity to commence peace talks.”
Asada also is quoted and records back this up as saying
"“the emperor expressed his conviction that a speedy surrender was the only feasible way to save Japan.” Hirohito urged Togo to “do [his] utmost to bring about a prompt termination of war,”
"Now that things have come to this impasse, we must bow to the inevitable. No matter what happens to my safety, we should lose no time in ending the war so as not to have another tragedy like this.”
This was before the Soviets attacked. -on what date? pl. post ur sources. Historical records show once they knew it was an atomic bomb, the war cabinet wanted to surrender on favorable terms. Tojo however refused to do this.-so, they were split & didn't agree among themselves. Atomic bombings didn't convince all to surrender- u proved my point. 

I am getting tired of you ignoring historical facts. You clearly do not know the history and are posting links with inaccurate information attempting to justify your view. - the same can be said about ur posts. Japanese records show without a shadow of a doubt, it was the bombs that made Japan surrender the soviets coming into the war merely made certain Togo could not have his way.- again, that proves my point: the IJA defeat by the Red Army in China & Korea tipped the scale in favor of surrender!

Lieutenant-General Ikeda Sumihisa, director of the General Planning Agency, testified that “upon hearing of the Soviet entry into the war, I felt that our chances were gone.” Having served in the Kwantung Army, he knew its condition well. The Kwantung Army was no more than a hollow shell, largely because it had been transferring its troops, equipment, and munitions to the home islands since the latter part of 1944 in anticipation of the homeland defense.- the arms they dropped were given to Maoists who later used them to defeat the KMT & push the UN troops, mostly American, below the 38th parallel in Korea. 
The Emperor’s decision to surrender had been contested by many of his advisors, including the Imperial General Headquarters hierarchy and many junior officers who threatened violence against leading government officials if the war was not continued. Even the second atomic bomb had not dissuaded them from continuing the war. But when reports from the Kwantung Army began to arrive, reporting significant Soviet penetration in Manchuria and the situation as “obscure,” objections to surrender were far less convincing. ..
The Soviets’ Manchurian Campaign, August Storm, destroyed the last vestige of Japanese military power outside Japan, and put the final nail in the coffin of those Japanese militarists who, even after suffering two atomic attacks, intended to continue the war to the death. 
https://warfarehistorynetwork.com/2020/01/07/the-soviet-invasion-of-manchuria-led-to-japans-greatest-defeat/

Many Japanese leaders also testified to this, so the idea Japan was strong in China is a myth that has long been debunked. Japans General staff both confirmed it and war records show that to be the case.- they had their own ax to grind, to explain their quick defeat. The IJA had to fight KMT + the Communists & other guerillas in big areas they occupied. The US used B-29s to bomb them there as well.
Now who should I believe war records? and the men who were in charge of the Imperial Army at that time or some guy online who doesn't know what he is talking about and is posting inaccurate information via random articles.- don't believe the defeated generals who have their own agenda & excuses; the articles I post r not random, & they have references u can access.
When news of the Japanese surrender reached the world, Americans automatically and naturally assumed it was due to the detonation of the atomic bombs. Hundreds of thousands of soldiers, sailors, Marines, and airmen who were making preparations for an invasion believed that the atomic bomb had spared their lives. Because they were not privy to the information available at the highest levels of government, they had no idea that the Japanese had attempted to convey their wishes to surrender several months before the detonation of the bomb. In contrast, many U.S. leaders, particularly those closest to the fight against Japan, believed the use of the atomic bomb was unnecessary, that Japan was on the verge of surrender without it. Immediately after the cessation of hostilities, members of the United States Strategic Bombing Survey entered Japan and began a systematic survey of the Japanese cities that had been the targets. The survey concluded that even without the two bombs “air supremacy over Japan could have exerted sufficient pressure to bring about unconditional surrender and obviate the need for invasion, probably by November 1, certainly by the end of December 1945.” https://warfarehistorynetwork.com/2016/08/04/was-it-right-to-drop-the-atomic-bomb-on-hiroshima-nagasaki/

The quality of troops had fallen drastically, as all the best men and materiel were siphoned off for use in other theaters. These forces were replaced by militia, draft levies, reservists, and cannibalized smaller units, all equipped with woefully outdated equipment.[6] The Kwantung Army had also bacteriological weapons, prepared for use against Soviet troops (see Unit 731). The bulk of military equipment (artillery, tanks, aircraft) was developed in the 1930s, and very few of the soldiers had sufficient training or any real experience."- that's not relevant; Japan didn't surrender before that Army in Manchuria & Korea wasn't forced to surrender. Have a nice day & good night!

The bombs could not be an additional reason to the soviet invasion since the bombs came before the invasion..

The Yamato Dynasty: The Secret History of