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    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #5

    dino00
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    Post  dino00 on Wed May 15, 2019 11:14 pm

    marcellogo wrote:
    And not, it's not 76 until 2027, it's as usual an order "in the framework"of the SAP 2018-2027, every five years there is a review, so next one SAP will be the 2023-2032.cheers  

    That's what I said 2018-2027, there is no armament program for 2028.
    What do you mean by it's not 76 until 2027?, for now is.
    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon on Thu May 16, 2019 1:53 am

    Isos wrote:Good start. If the production goes better than expected just stop SU-30SM.

    Nope, Su-30SM stays. It's cheap twin seat multirole.

    Su-35 is one that will be getting the axe, it was a stopgap from the get go.

    Cyberspec
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    Post  Cyberspec on Thu May 16, 2019 2:58 am

    I guess the nay sayers who were babbling on about how the Su-57 is a failed project will have to eat a big shit sandwich now...

    So basically, they forced Sukhoi to lower the price substantially before upping the order
    kvs
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    Post  kvs on Thu May 16, 2019 4:08 am

    dino00 wrote:
    marcellogo wrote:
    And not, it's not 76 until 2027, it's as usual an order "in the framework"of the SAP 2018-2027, every five years there is a review, so next one SAP will be the 2023-2032.cheers  

    That's what I said 2018-2027, there is no armament program for 2028.
    What do you mean by it's not 76 until 2027?, for now is.

    He means it could be 76 for the current 5 year period. Even if this is not the case there is nothing stopping the order from being increased in 2022.

    medo
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    Post  medo on Thu May 16, 2019 5:13 am

    Russia alredy ordered 15 Su-57. With those additional 76, RuAF will order 91 Su-57 jets. Enough for three regiments.
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    Tingsay

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    Post  Tingsay on Thu May 16, 2019 5:47 am

    Good news.

    No more Su-35s please. Go Su-57 all the way.
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    Gazputin

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    Post  Gazputin on Thu May 16, 2019 6:18 am

    this will probably be signed at the Expo in June

    I know I sound like a broken down record ….
    they did not "beat Sukhoi down in price"
    they gave Sukhoi a sensible order quantity to negotiate the production volume required to get the component price they need
    from their component suppliers

    you guys are so absolutely naïve …. seriously
    the Sukhoi factory is not a "factory"
    it is a final assembly line …
    where multiple sub-assemblies from component suppliers are "joined together"
    do you idiots get it yet ?
    Sukhoi make the "glider" as they call it …. but all the bits bolted into the "glider" are from somewhere elese ….

    the 75-76 …. will be over a 5 year period … I can guarantee you …
    it was a negotiation tool …… for Sukhoi to negotiate with its component suppliers
    not the reverse as you idiots believe …. seriously
    I'm really getting bored with you "experts"

    and this nonsense about dumping Su-30s ….. idiots
    it is a completely different machine
    but far more importantly ….. built in a different factory …. huullllloooooo

    the biggest question for the Su-30 is …. will the ramp up in the MC-21 ….. effect the Yak factory's ability to build
    not only Su-30s but also Yak-130s … ?
    why do you idiots think they are currently loading up the Yak factory with Su-30 and Yak-130 orders whilst the MC-21 is in the approvals stage
    Su-57 has absolutely nothing to do with the Su-30 ….. the MC-21 does

    why do you idiots think Putin is loading up the Tupolev factory with Tu-160 and Tu-214 AWACs orders ?
    …. whilst they develop a supersonic airliner … open your eyes ….

    and why do you think are looking at Il-400-500 s with massive load carrying compartments for Roscosmos rockets etc
    at VASO whilst they work on the CR-929 ….

    its all about factories …. and retaining skilled and experienced staff
    factories are machines that thrive on consistent volume …. but most of all … on volume

    how many times do I have to say this …. the aircraft you guys are so utterly obsessed with is just the "pointy end" of a huge milplex ….








    Cyberspec
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    Post  Cyberspec on Thu May 16, 2019 7:42 am

    Tingsay wrote:Good news.

    No more Su-35s please. Go Su-57 all the way.

    Why?....Su-35 is a sexy beast Smile
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    ATLASCUB

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    Post  ATLASCUB on Thu May 16, 2019 8:31 am

    About time.
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    Post  Gazputin on Thu May 16, 2019 9:01 am

    of course they will build the Su-35 …. until Su-57 has been in production for 2 years at least
    oh ! but why ! I hear the cretins howl ! …….

    ok for you dumb-arses …. the Su-35 has probably covered its initial capital costs
    so all volume flows directly to the bottom line …. that for you morons is …. called profit
    positive cashflow …..

    yes dumb-arses …. you have an initial capital cost …. that will require typically a 2-3 yr payback period to break even ….
    so ….. for all you dumb-arse little Napoloens and Hitlers ….
    the positive cashflow from the Su-35 …. will fund the Su-57 production line ….
    yes dumb-arses ….. you need a payback …. and the positive cashflow from the Su-35 will fund the Su-57 production line

    it isn't a "war" …. it is an economic war you morons …..
    seriously …. you guys are so fn dumb ….

    you guys are so fn boring …. seriously



    Vladimir79
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    Post  Vladimir79 on Thu May 16, 2019 9:06 am

    Gazputin wrote:this will probably be signed at the Expo in June

    I know I sound like a broken down record ….
    they did not "beat Sukhoi down in price"
    they gave Sukhoi a sensible order quantity to negotiate the production volume required to get the component price they need
    from their component suppliers

    its all about factories …. and retaining skilled and experienced staff
    factories are machines that thrive on consistent volume  …. but most of all … on volume

    how many times do I have to say this …. the aircraft you guys are so utterly obsessed with is just the "pointy end" of a huge milplex ….

    With a 43% drop in aerospace production there should be enough fake engineers looking for a job. They can turn that welding shack into a proper production line now or maybe they will continue to underinvest and leave bolts hanging out of the skin of the aircraft.
    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible on Thu May 16, 2019 9:20 am

    Ah yes. The man who can't tell difference from sensor prods used for tests vs bolts.

    Not surprised.  Continues to make himself look foolish.

    You don't have to cry anymore. The orders are jumping back up. 75 for Su-57, 10 new Tu-160, 10 more upgraded and now 110 for Mi-28NM and 100 for Ka-52. Prospect for more Su-30SM as well for more MiG-31 upgrades as well as slow introduction of new MiG-35's. Only one not sure about is Tu-214 orders
    Vladimir79
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    Post  Vladimir79 on Thu May 16, 2019 9:28 am

    miketheterrible wrote:Ah yes. The man who can't tell difference from sensor prods used for tests vs bolts.

    Not surprised.  Continues to make himself look foolish.

    You don't have to cry anymore. The orders are jumping back up. 75 for Su-57, 10 new Tu-160, 10 more upgraded and now 110 for Mi-28NM and 100 for Ka-52.  Prospect for more Su-30SM as well for more MiG-31 upgrades as well as slow introduction of new MiG-35's.  Only one not sure about is Tu-214 orders

    What Mi-28NM would that be?  I don't count upgraded cockpit displays as aircraft production.  Let me know when real orders exist for new aircraft.
    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible on Thu May 16, 2019 10:39 am

    Vladimir79 wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:Ah yes. The man who can't tell difference from sensor prods used for tests vs bolts.

    Not surprised.  Continues to make himself look foolish.

    You don't have to cry anymore. The orders are jumping back up. 75 for Su-57, 10 new Tu-160, 10 more upgraded and now 110 for Mi-28NM and 100 for Ka-52.  Prospect for more Su-30SM as well for more MiG-31 upgrades as well as slow introduction of new MiG-35's.  Only one not sure about is Tu-214 orders

    What Mi-28NM would that be?  I don't count upgraded cockpit displays as aircraft production.  Let me know when real orders exist for new aircraft.

    Sure, MAKS 2019. Was mentioned in kommersant.

    Dunno what part about ordering new Mi-28NM and Ka-52 has anything to do with cockpit displays. It's a whole fricking bird.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Thu May 16, 2019 10:42 am

    But only at the beginning of the flight. Maneuvers and flight in the atmosphere limit speed very much. In the terminal phase of the Avangard, probably a few Machs fly

    The Russians stated it accelerated to mach 27 inside the atmosphere... an unpowered falling warhead would slow down as it entered the atmosphere, but this clearly doesn't... that is what makes it different from standard reentry vehicles... and makes it hard for ABM systems to target.

    These are the laws of physics. The warhead flying in the atmosphere and maneuvering faster loses energy.

    Those same laws of physics state you can't run fast enough to fly so you can't fly... ever been on an aeroplane or helicopter?

    Avangard is reported to have accelerated to mach 27 inside the atmosphere...

    Regarding those claiming they can stop buying Su-35s, no.

    Su-35s are F-35 hunters... with their wing mounted L band radars they are very well equipped to detect low rcs targets like F-35s and various stealthy weapons the west might want to use.

    They are a numbers aircraft that would be ideal to use together with Su-57s to deal with enemy air forces... they add value to each other... the Su-35 is not stealthy but can carry rather more weapons and is cheaper to buy and likely to operate than any stealth design...
    Isos
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    Post  Isos on Thu May 16, 2019 11:43 am

    Only one not sure about is Tu-214 orders

    There is a nice french article in a blog about that plane the tu-204.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/redsamovar.com/2016/11/19/analyse-le-tu-204-echec-commercial-ou-bonne-a-tout-faire/amp/

    It basically says the commercial variants are total failures because it was not optimized for actual companies but for soviet ones.

    However the plane is awsome that's why russian air force will use it as plateform for every specialized job like command post, elint, GRU sigint, Putin's plane, ASW, AWACS that's why it ends up being produced in quite significant quantities.

    Tu-214 has a 10 000km range which translate into 10+ hours in the air. For ASW, ELINT and ASW it is a must have.
    verkhoturye51
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    Post  verkhoturye51 on Thu May 16, 2019 12:40 pm

    Ah yes. The man who can't tell difference from sensor prods used for tests vs bolts.

    Not surprised.  Continues to make himself look foolish.

    You don't have to cry anymore. The orders are jumping back up. 75 for Su-57, 10 new Tu-160, 10 more upgraded and now 110 for Mi-28NM and 100 for Ka-52.  Prospect for more Su-30SM as well for more MiG-31 upgrades as well as slow introduction of new MiG-35's.  Only one not sure about is Tu-214 orders

    Dmitry Gorenburg said that udner previous SAP helicopters have been purchased massively and now the army is already saturated with them. So what's your interpretation of this further purchases, is this some extreme expansion in capabilities or just normal modernization/replacing older aircraft?
    dino00
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    Post  dino00 on Thu May 16, 2019 2:11 pm

    Gazputin wrote:of course they will build the Su-35 …. until Su-57 has been in production for 2 years at least
    oh ! but why ! I hear the cretins howl ! …….

    ok for you dumb-arses …. the Su-35 has probably covered its initial capital costs
    so all volume flows directly to the bottom line …. that for you morons is …. called profit
    positive cashflow …..

    yes dumb-arses …. you have an initial capital cost …. that will require typically a 2-3 yr payback period to break even ….
    so ….. for  all you dumb-arse little Napoloens and Hitlers  ….
    the positive cashflow from the Su-35 …. will fund the Su-57 production line ….
    yes dumb-arses  ….. you need a payback …. and the positive cashflow from the Su-35 will fund the Su-57 production line

    it isn't a "war"  …. it is an economic war you morons …..
    seriously …. you guys are so fn dumb ….

    you guys are so fn boring …. seriously  




    Your posts are very informative...when you are sober.

    Vladimir79
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    Post  Vladimir79 on Thu May 16, 2019 2:19 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:

    Sure, MAKS 2019. Was mentioned in kommersant.

    Dunno what part about ordering new Mi-28NM and Ka-52 has anything to do with cockpit displays. It's a whole fricking bird.

    I am sure I said "real orders", not announcements of fairy tales from another failed GPV revision.
    dino00
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    Post  dino00 on Thu May 16, 2019 2:31 pm

    The contract for 76 Su-57 fighters worth up to 170 billion rubles can be signed on MAKS-2019 - the newspaper

    Moscow. 16th of May. INTERFAX - A contract for the purchase of 76 fifth-generation fighters of the Su-57 worth about 170 billion rubles can be signed at the MAKS-2019 air show in August, the Kommersant newspaper reported on Thursday, citing sources.
    "The contract is estimated at up to 170 billion rubles, which makes it the largest in aviation history and guarantees full utilization of the capacity of the Komsomolsk-on-Amur Aviation Plant (KnAAZ - Sukhoi branch, included in OAK-IF) for at least a decade" - says the material.
    “The cost of the contract, estimated at 160-170 billion rubles, is reduced not only because of decisions to change the internal layout of the Su-57 and the unification of technical solutions, but also because production has become mass-produced,” Kommersant writes. referring to the top manager of one of the defense industry enterprises.
    According to the source of the publication, theoretically, the KnAAZ production line allows to produce at least seven to eight Su-57 fighters annually.

    https://www.militarynews.ru/story.asp?rid=1&nid=508325&lang=RU

    Did I made the math right $34.6 million? attack Change internal layout? Only 7 or 8 annually?
    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Thu May 16, 2019 3:19 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    ult wrote:Straight from Putin.

    New contract for 76 Su-57 till 2028 will be signed soon. Plus weapons and ground infrastructure under the same contract.

    https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/6434341


    I wonder what new talking point among reddit stealth fanboys will be after this Cool

    Its MOD tradition to have small contracts initially for deep testing of vehicles, to find and iron out kinks before eventually signing bigger contracts later. We've seen both Armata and Su-57 go through this cycle, but don't expect people with gold fish memory to end the narratives... Wink
    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible on Thu May 16, 2019 4:13 pm

    Since some people are pessimistic for no reason what so ever:

    https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/3968914

    The President gave the military "Dry"
    The defense Ministry is preparing to acquire 76 new su-57

    Yesterday, Vladimir Putin announced the purchase of the Ministry of defence 76 of the latest su-57, which should come into service three air regiments to 2028. The contract, according to “Kommersant”, is estimated to be worth up to 170 billion rubles, making it the largest in the history of aviation and will guarantee full utilization of capacity of the Komsomolsk-on-Amur aviation plant for at least a decade. The agreement may be signed in the presence of the President at the MAKS-2019.

    About the readiness of the military to buy a large batch of new aircraft Vladimir Putin said at a meeting on the development of military aviation, held in Sochi. He recalled that during 2013-2018, the troops received more than a thousand new and upgraded aircraft and helicopters, the fleet HQs updated by 65%. Now, the President said, you need to start the serial purchase latest models of aircraft, including fighters of the fifth generation su-57. "By 2028 (them.— “B”) you need to completely re-equip three aircraft regiment HQs," said Putin, stressing that the state armament programme until 2027 planned purchase of only 16 such aircraft. By working with industry the cost of the aircraft has decreased by almost 20%, which will allow you to purchase during the same time period 76 fighters, said the President.

    Work on the su-57 (prospective airborne complex of frontline aviation) was started in 2002. Two years later, the aircraft was presented to the President in the layout. In 2010, Mr Putin said that the first phase of the plane spent about 30 billion rubles, to complete the work, he said, required the same amount. The timing of his entering the army and planned to purchase the number of machines is constantly changing. The state program of armaments for 2011-2020 years involved the purchase of 52 serial su-57 (delivery of the first two in 2015). Later, the military admitted that due to the unstable economic situation, the Department is ready to take only 15 of these machines, two of which will be in 2017 (see “Kommersant” on March 24, 2015). In the end, the first contract for a pair of su-57 was signed only in August 2018: by its terms, the first car to be handed over to the military in 2019. During the existence of the program was built ten prototypes su-57.

    According to a top Manager of one of the enterprises of defense industry, a contract to supply the defense Ministry 76 su-57 may be a record in the history of the United aircraft Corporation (UAC). The contract value is estimated at 160-170 billion rubles., reduced not only because of the decisions to change the internal layout of the su-57 and unification of technical solutions, but also due to the fact that the production began production, says the source “b”: cash in on military contracts due to the low (3-5%) profitability and it won't work, but it ensures the load capacity of the Komsomolsk-on-Amur aviation plant for a decade. Theoretically its production line allows to produce annually at least seven or eight of these machines, the first batch of which will be equipped with engines of the first stage (AL-41F1), and then the second ("article 30"). Komsomolsk-on-Amur enterprise taking into account the internal and export orders to the fighters of the previous generation su-35 becomes the most downloaded of all the plants of the KLA, said a senior official of the government. According to him, the contract can be signed in the presence of Vladimir Putin at the MAKS-2019, which will be held in Zhukovsky near Moscow from 27 August to 1 September.

    Yesterday the President said that by 2028 the troops must be 100 combat helicopters Mi-28NM — improved operating results in the Syrian version of the already consisting on arms of the Russian space forces hundreds of Mi-28N. This contract and the concurrent signing of the agreement on 114 combat helicopters Ka-52 will give the CPU load under the current state program of armaments, two companies included in "rostec" holding "Helicopters of Russia" — "Rostvertol" (Rostov) and "Progress" (Arsenyev). According to the source “Kommersant” in the aviation industry, the combined value of these agreements is estimated at the level of 180-190 billion rubles.

    Who am I going to believe? President of Russia or some yahoo that left the country 20 years ago and doesn't know the basics of PPP that even high school students know?
    Dorfmeister
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    Post  Dorfmeister on Thu May 16, 2019 4:36 pm

    Isos wrote:There is a nice french article in a blog about that plane the tu-204.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/redsamovar.com/2016/11/19/analyse-le-tu-204-echec-commercial-ou-bonne-a-tout-faire/amp/

    The article is getting a bit aged by now and lack technical details, I'll rewrite and expand it this year Wink

    (Sorry for the off topic)
    marcellogo
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    Post  marcellogo on Thu May 16, 2019 7:10 pm

    dino00 wrote:
    Gazputin wrote:of course they will build the Su-35 …. until Su-57 has been in production for 2 years at least
    oh ! but why ! I hear the cretins howl ! …….

    ok for you dumb-arses …. the Su-35 has probably covered its initial capital costs
    so all volume flows directly to the bottom line …. that for you morons is …. called profit
    positive cashflow …..

    yes dumb-arses …. you have an initial capital cost …. that will require typically a 2-3 yr payback period to break even ….
    so ….. for  all you dumb-arse little Napoloens and Hitlers  ….
    the positive cashflow from the Su-35 …. will fund the Su-57 production line ….
    yes dumb-arses  ….. you need a payback …. and the positive cashflow from the Su-35 will fund the Su-57 production line

    it isn't a "war"  …. it is an economic war you morons …..
    seriously …. you guys are so fn dumb ….

    you guys are so fn boring …. seriously  




    Your posts are very informative...when you are sober.


    His post are useful eveb when drink, you have just to pardon insults.
    dino00
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    Post  dino00 on Thu May 16, 2019 7:57 pm

    marcellogo wrote:
    dino00 wrote:
    Gazputin wrote:of course they will build the Su-35 …. until Su-57 has been in production for 2 years at least
    oh ! but why ! I hear the cretins howl ! …….

    ok for you dumb-arses …. the Su-35 has probably covered its initial capital costs
    so all volume flows directly to the bottom line …. that for you morons is …. called profit
    positive cashflow …..

    yes dumb-arses …. you have an initial capital cost …. that will require typically a 2-3 yr payback period to break even ….
    so ….. for  all you dumb-arse little Napoloens and Hitlers  ….
    the positive cashflow from the Su-35 …. will fund the Su-57 production line ….
    yes dumb-arses  ….. you need a payback …. and the positive cashflow from the Su-35 will fund the Su-57 production line

    it isn't a "war"  …. it is an economic war you morons …..
    seriously …. you guys are so fn dumb ….

    you guys are so fn boring …. seriously  




    Your posts are very informative...when you are sober.


    His post are useful eveb when drink, you have just to pardon insults.

    Yeah, you're right they are useful, we have to filter through the insults.
    End Off Topic PAK-FA`S to everyone I pay!

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