Russia Defence Forum

Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


+46
TMA1
ucmvulcan
Arkanghelsk
caveat emptor
nomadski
GunshipDemocracy
Backman
franco
Begome
JohninMK
sepheronx
Kiko
Flanky
Atmosphere
Singular_Transform
mnztr
Mindstorm
thegopnik
lyle6
AlfaT8
medo
flamming_python
RTN
Tsavo Lion
Viktor
Arrow
marcellogo
william.boutros
auslander
Cyberspec
kvs
magnumcromagnon
dino00
LMFS
Hole
George1
jhelb
AJ-47
miketheterrible
PapaDragon
Swede55
Isos
d_taddei2
GarryB
Tingsay
The-thing-next-door
50 posters

    Russian defence against drone swarms

    jhelb
    jhelb


    Posts : 1086
    Points : 1187
    Join date : 2015-04-04
    Location : Previously: Belarus Currently: A Small Island No One Cares About

    Russian defence against drone swarms - Page 7 Empty Re: Russian defence against drone swarms

    Post  jhelb Fri Dec 13, 2019 5:47 pm

    Turkey is getting military drones armed with machine guns

    https://www.newscientist.com/article/2227168-turkey-is-getting-military-drones-armed-with-machine-guns/

    Imagine a swarm of these drones attacking a target. The target will be a toast.

    Russia,China can probably defend themselves from these attacks but what about other countries like Venezuela, Syria ? Already US tried to kill the Venezuelan leader by using a drone.
    Isos
    Isos


    Posts : 11302
    Points : 11272
    Join date : 2015-11-06

    Russian defence against drone swarms - Page 7 Empty Re: Russian defence against drone swarms

    Post  Isos Fri Dec 13, 2019 5:52 pm

    jhelb wrote:Turkey is getting military drones armed with machine guns

    https://www.newscientist.com/article/2227168-turkey-is-getting-military-drones-armed-with-machine-guns/

    Imagine a swarm of these drones attacking a target. The target will be a toast.

    Russia,China can probably defend themselves from these attacks but what about other countries like Venezuela, Syria ? Already US tried to kill the Venezuelan leader by using a drone.

    The drone is 25kg. At the first shot it will start turning because of the machine gun recoil. It sucks.
    GarryB
    GarryB


    Posts : 39028
    Points : 39524
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Russian defence against drone swarms - Page 7 Empty Re: Russian defence against drone swarms

    Post  GarryB Sat Dec 14, 2019 12:39 am

    Lots of issues there... such a system would need to be manually controlled to prevent it just shooting everyone and anyone... a flight of them murdering civilians would be a war crime... that is something the US gets away with all the time but I doubt Turkey could get away with that.

    If it needs to be directed then it will not so much be an autonomous drone and more a remote control drone.

    Just looking at it I would say it was a .223 calibre weapon so while it talks about accuracy at 200m with such a short barrel (as used on their LMG versions of the Minimi as used in Afghanistan and Iraq) it was found 200m was the effective range of the round... if it is hovering to fire accurately then at 200m from the targets it could easily get small arms return fire that would bring it down fairly easily too.

    Those new airburst 30mm cannon shells they were developing would be ideal to kill this sort of target... the accuracy of the gun gets it close to the target and the remote detonation system makes it explode nearby sending fragments to shatter the drone with perhaps one shot because it does not need to make contact to get a kill like a rifle bullet would.

    Such things would be useful in specific cases but it is hardly going to be significant on the battlefield.
    jhelb
    jhelb


    Posts : 1086
    Points : 1187
    Join date : 2015-04-04
    Location : Previously: Belarus Currently: A Small Island No One Cares About

    Russian defence against drone swarms - Page 7 Empty Re: Russian defence against drone swarms

    Post  jhelb Sun Dec 15, 2019 12:31 pm

    GarryB wrote:Such things would be useful in specific cases but it is hardly going to be significant on the battlefield.

    The US Navy is now working on a Program To Project False Fleets From Drone Swarms. I'm hoping the Russian Navy will develop some counter measure against this up coming threat

    https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/29505/the-navys-secretive-nemesis-electronic-warfare-capability-will-change-naval-combat-forever

    GarryB
    GarryB


    Posts : 39028
    Points : 39524
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Russian defence against drone swarms - Page 7 Empty Re: Russian defence against drone swarms

    Post  GarryB Mon Dec 16, 2019 12:43 am

    I am sure the Russians are very aware of most secret US programmes designed to attack Russia...

    The Amusing thing about this sort of venture... even assuming it worked... making Russia think it is under mass drone attack is most likely to cause them to both mobilise to stop the attack but also to strike back at where they think the attack came from... which is fine for people sitting in Washington, but when the fake drone swarm seems to take off from Poland and Russia launches a nuclear armed Iskander to vapourise the base it came from there might be some red faced Americans, and Poles with burned off faces of course...

    That sounds like an excellent system that will be well worth the money they spend on that...
    medo
    medo


    Posts : 4342
    Points : 4422
    Join date : 2010-10-24
    Location : Slovenia

    Russian defence against drone swarms - Page 7 Empty Re: Russian defence against drone swarms

    Post  medo Thu Dec 26, 2019 3:45 pm

    d_taddei2
    d_taddei2


    Posts : 2948
    Points : 3122
    Join date : 2013-05-11
    Location : Scotland Alba

    Russian defence against drone swarms - Page 7 Empty Re: Russian defence against drone swarms

    Post  d_taddei2 Tue Mar 17, 2020 10:43 pm

    to combat swarms and drones in general, i think you need a multitude of systems as having a layered and different methods of taking them out makes it difficult for the enemy to deploy a drone that can get through these systems. there is no question one of the best methods is EW systems, but this has to no just be limited to bigger systems but also personal systems. Next you have the large calibre AA guns, from 57mm upwards to even the 100mm sa-ir mass shrapnel or even EMP rounds. for the more high tech, expensive and larger drones you will have various missiles , fired from various platforms such as aircraft land based systems. The aircraft itself doesnt have to be high tech, a Yak-130 armed with a small radar, gun pods, AA missiles, and EW warfare pod to not only protect itself but also to shut down drones, and they could be guided by larger radars or AWACS towards drones and then there smaller radar then locks on to it, and then its goodnight drone. You could have yak-130 on standby ready to combat drone threats. another useful platform would a Mi-17 EW version, having the ability to hover would be a bonus. Russia has many options on the table.
    magnumcromagnon
    magnumcromagnon


    Posts : 8138
    Points : 8273
    Join date : 2013-12-05
    Location : Pindos ave., Pindosville, Pindosylvania, Pindostan

    Russian defence against drone swarms - Page 7 Empty Re: Russian defence against drone swarms

    Post  magnumcromagnon Fri Apr 17, 2020 7:42 pm

    Rostec has developed a radar station to detect miniature drones

    Moscow. October 10th. INTERFAX - Holding Roselektronika has developed a radar station for the detection of small unmanned aerial vehicles, the press service of the state corporation Rostec.
          "Holding" Roselektronika "state corporation" Rostec "has developed a radar station for the detection of small drones at a distance of 7.5 km. The equipment is built entirely on the domestic electronic component base and has no analogues in Russia," - said in a statement.
          To date, the first samples of equipment have been created, and field tests of the radar station have been conducted.
          According to the state corporation, the target radio illumination station (ROC) is capable of detecting and tracking small and low contrast targets with an effective dispersion area of ​​30 square centimeters, a wide speed range and the ability to fly at low and very low altitudes.
          "When an object is detected, the equipment transmits information to the control tower or to the control center," the press service said.
          It is noted that the multi-channel Ka-band radar has small dimensions - 325x240x230 mm.
          "The Russian Orthodox Church is located on a rotary device that provides visibility in all directions. The station can be controlled either manually from a laptop or automatically," the message said.
          According to the executive director of Rostec Oleg Yevtushenko, whose words are given in the message, modern small-sized drones have a large list of functions and can pose a great threat, so the new development has a great prospect.
          “This is not only about special drones made in an industrial environment. It can be a toy copter from a children's store or a craft made by handicrafts. Traditional radar methods do not provide reliable detection of UAVs with a small reflective surface. The development of our holding“ Roselectronika ”successfully solves this task. Of course, the novelty will be in demand among both special and civil customers, "said Yevtushenko.
          The complex was developed by specialists of JSC "NPP" Salute "(part of the" Russian Electronics ") in conjunction with ICD" Torch "(included in the group of EKR" Almaz-Antey ").

    https://www.militarynews.ru/story.asp?rid=1&nid=519026&lang=RU
    dino00
    dino00


    Posts : 1677
    Points : 1714
    Join date : 2012-10-12
    Age : 36
    Location : portugal

    Russian defence against drone swarms - Page 7 Empty Re: Russian defence against drone swarms

    Post  dino00 Fri Apr 17, 2020 8:05 pm

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    Rostec has developed a radar station to detect miniature drones

    Moscow. October 10th. INTERFAX - Holding Roselektronika has developed a radar station for the detection of small unmanned aerial vehicles, the press service of the state corporation Rostec.
          "Holding" Roselektronika "state corporation" Rostec "has developed a radar station for the detection of small drones at a distance of 7.5 km. The equipment is built entirely on the domestic electronic component base and has no analogues in Russia," - said in a statement.
          To date, the first samples of equipment have been created, and field tests of the radar station have been conducted.
          According to the state corporation, the target radio illumination station (ROC) is capable of detecting and tracking small and low contrast targets with an effective dispersion area of ​​30 square centimeters, a wide speed range and the ability to fly at low and very low altitudes.
          "When an object is detected, the equipment transmits information to the control tower or to the control center," the press service said.
          It is noted that the multi-channel Ka-band radar has small dimensions - 325x240x230 mm.
          "The Russian Orthodox Church is located on a rotary device that provides visibility in all directions. The station can be controlled either manually from a laptop or automatically," the message said.
          According to the executive director of Rostec Oleg Yevtushenko, whose words are given in the message, modern small-sized drones have a large list of functions and can pose a great threat, so the new development has a great prospect.
          “This is not only about special drones made in an industrial environment. It can be a toy copter from a children's store or a craft made by handicrafts. Traditional radar methods do not provide reliable detection of UAVs with a small reflective surface. The development of our holding“ Roselectronika ”successfully solves this task. Of course, the novelty will be in demand among both special and civil customers, "said Yevtushenko.
          The complex was developed by specialists of JSC "NPP" Salute "(part of the" Russian Electronics ") in conjunction with ICD" Torch "(included in the group of EKR" Almaz-Antey ").

    https://www.militarynews.ru/story.asp?rid=1&nid=519026&lang=RU

    WOW Shocked

    Russian Orthodox Church lol1
    PapaDragon
    PapaDragon


    Posts : 13278
    Points : 13320
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Russian defence against drone swarms - Page 7 Empty Re: Russian defence against drone swarms

    Post  PapaDragon Fri Apr 17, 2020 8:27 pm

    dino00 wrote:
    WOW Shocked

    Russian Orthodox Church lol1

    RPC

    Stealth technology is nothing compared to power of Jesus angel

    thegopnik likes this post

    medo
    medo


    Posts : 4342
    Points : 4422
    Join date : 2010-10-24
    Location : Slovenia

    Russian defence against drone swarms - Page 7 Empty Re: Russian defence against drone swarms

    Post  medo Fri Apr 17, 2020 9:27 pm

    станция радиоподсвета цели (РПЦ)

    RPC is radio target iluminator. I wonder where Google translator find Russian Orthodox Church located on rotating device.... This church must be realy interesting. lol1
    medo
    medo


    Posts : 4342
    Points : 4422
    Join date : 2010-10-24
    Location : Slovenia

    Russian defence against drone swarms - Page 7 Empty Re: Russian defence against drone swarms

    Post  medo Fri Apr 17, 2020 9:31 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    dino00 wrote:
    WOW Shocked

    Russian Orthodox Church lol1

    RPC  

    Stealth technology is nothing compared to power of Jesus  angel


    Amen. Nothing can compare, specially when preast is rotating. thumbsup
    magnumcromagnon
    magnumcromagnon


    Posts : 8138
    Points : 8273
    Join date : 2013-12-05
    Location : Pindos ave., Pindosville, Pindosylvania, Pindostan

    Russian defence against drone swarms - Page 7 Empty Re: Russian defence against drone swarms

    Post  magnumcromagnon Fri Apr 17, 2020 9:43 pm

    medo wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    dino00 wrote:
    WOW Shocked

    Russian Orthodox Church lol1

    RPC  

    Stealth technology is nothing compared to power of Jesus  angel


    Amen. Nothing can compare, specially when preast is rotating.  thumbsup

    Russian defence against drone swarms - Page 7 Source
    magnumcromagnon
    magnumcromagnon


    Posts : 8138
    Points : 8273
    Join date : 2013-12-05
    Location : Pindos ave., Pindosville, Pindosylvania, Pindostan

    Russian defence against drone swarms - Page 7 Empty Re: Russian defence against drone swarms

    Post  magnumcromagnon Tue Apr 28, 2020 11:31 pm

    "#Avtomatika demonstrated advanced complexes to counteract drones

    A full-scale demonstration of developments took place at the Kudinovo landfill in Kaluga Oblast. Concern presented complexes like Rubezh-Avtomatika an Sapsan-Bekas, radio interception and monitoring means."

    Russian defence against drone swarms - Page 7 ETfMM_uXsAIFUM1?format=jpg&name=large

    https://twitter.com/Rostec_Russia/status/1240685145255849984
    magnumcromagnon
    magnumcromagnon


    Posts : 8138
    Points : 8273
    Join date : 2013-12-05
    Location : Pindos ave., Pindosville, Pindosylvania, Pindostan

    Russian defence against drone swarms - Page 7 Empty Re: Russian defence against drone swarms

    Post  magnumcromagnon Tue Aug 04, 2020 6:14 pm

    The calculation of the newest radar "Casta" Southern Military District discovered a drone "enemy" near Rostov
    In the field, the servicemen complied with the standards for the deployment of the station, and also worked out various inputs for detecting air objects, determining the range, flight altitude and route characteristics.


    Specialists of the air defense of the 150th motorized rifle division of the Southern Military District (YuVO) operated the newest radar station (radar) "Kasta" on a tactical-special exercise for detecting and tracking air targets of a conditional enemy in the Rostov region

    In the field, the servicemen complied with the standards for the deployment of the station, and also worked out various inputs for detecting air objects, determining the range, flight altitude and trail characteristics.

    Particular attention was paid to the development of tasks for the detection of air objects, including airplanes, helicopters, unmanned aerial vehicles and winged missiles, flying at low altitudes and extremely low altitudes, against the background of intense local reflections from hydromagnets.

    To simulate an air target, a complex with an unmanned aerial vehicle was used.

    In addition, the calculation of the Kasta radar station performed the transmission of coordinates to the command post of the anti-aircraft missile subunit, equipped with the Tor-M complexes, with the further destruction of the drone by electronic launches.

    More than 300 military personnel were involved in the exercise, and more than 50 units of special equipment were also involved.

    https://tvzvezda.ru/news/forces/content/20208420-a0cg5.html

    Mobile radar asset designed specifically against small aerial objects (drones) that fly extremely slow and low altitude, and integrates in SHORAD IAD to aid in drone destruction.
    kvs
    kvs


    Posts : 15138
    Points : 15275
    Join date : 2014-09-11
    Location : Turdope's Kanada

    Russian defence against drone swarms - Page 7 Empty Re: Russian defence against drone swarms

    Post  kvs Tue Aug 04, 2020 6:18 pm

    The above is rather relevant information for all the stealth fanbois. In principle, a drone can be made as stealthy
    as possible since it is small and all the stealth tricks are maximally effective. In the real world, the pig does not fly.

    medo
    medo


    Posts : 4342
    Points : 4422
    Join date : 2010-10-24
    Location : Slovenia

    Russian defence against drone swarms - Page 7 Empty Re: Russian defence against drone swarms

    Post  medo Tue Aug 04, 2020 10:30 pm

    Who would think, that radar based on ancient P-15 would still be effective against drones.
    magnumcromagnon
    magnumcromagnon


    Posts : 8138
    Points : 8273
    Join date : 2013-12-05
    Location : Pindos ave., Pindosville, Pindosylvania, Pindostan

    Russian defence against drone swarms - Page 7 Empty Re: Russian defence against drone swarms

    Post  magnumcromagnon Wed Aug 05, 2020 2:27 pm

    medo wrote:Who would think, that radar based on ancient P-15 would still be effective against drones.

    Yeah the radar dishes did look like they were originally from the 60's. Wink
    kvs
    kvs


    Posts : 15138
    Points : 15275
    Join date : 2014-09-11
    Location : Turdope's Kanada

    Russian defence against drone swarms - Page 7 Empty Re: Russian defence against drone swarms

    Post  kvs Wed Aug 05, 2020 4:32 pm

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    medo wrote:Who would think, that radar based on ancient P-15 would still be effective against drones.

    Yeah the radar dishes did look like they were originally from the 60's. Wink

    Physics is still physics. In spite of all the western bleating about Russian inferiority, competent researchers can develop ways
    to use the same dish to do more than what it was used for during the 1950s. In fact, you see more than one dish, which
    means that a wider band of frequencies is used.

    The Soviet and even the post collapse Russian education system with its rigorous mathematics and hard science is paying
    off. Touchy feely western participation trophy "education" is not.

    LMFS likes this post

    Hole
    Hole


    Posts : 10753
    Points : 10731
    Join date : 2018-03-24
    Age : 47
    Location : Scholzistan

    Russian defence against drone swarms - Page 7 Empty Re: Russian defence against drone swarms

    Post  Hole Wed Aug 05, 2020 7:23 pm

    New computers and algorithms work wonders. Very Happy
    magnumcromagnon
    magnumcromagnon


    Posts : 8138
    Points : 8273
    Join date : 2013-12-05
    Location : Pindos ave., Pindosville, Pindosylvania, Pindostan

    Russian defence against drone swarms - Page 7 Empty Re: Russian defence against drone swarms

    Post  magnumcromagnon Wed Aug 05, 2020 7:30 pm

    Hole wrote:New computers and algorithms work wonders. Very Happy

    That's why I always stress the importance of command posts. They've shown to even make the likes of MANPADS and ATGMs capable of defeating cruise missiles. They gave new life for ancient SAMS like S-75/125/200 in Syria.
    flamming_python
    flamming_python


    Posts : 9019
    Points : 9081
    Join date : 2012-01-30

    Russian defence against drone swarms - Page 7 Empty Re: Russian defence against drone swarms

    Post  flamming_python Fri Aug 28, 2020 3:20 pm

    Hole wrote:Russian defence against drone swarms - Page 7 Pischa10
    Pischal-PRO

    Have a bit more info on this

    From https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/9290673

    "Rostec's Automatics concern has brought to market the most powerful hand-held system for fighting unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVS), said Vladimir Kabanov, General Director of Automatics.
    "The Pishchal-PRO anti-UAV complex is positioned on the market as the lightest and at the same time powerful manual complex, both for individual and as part of other complexes of application. Yes, there are a lot of manual complexes on the market, but our complex "Pishchal-PRO" is the best in its class," Kabanov said.
    The "uniqueness "Squeaked" is this: weighing in at 4 kg, low power, number of concurrent ranges of opposition, we have achieved a range of action in 2000 m, what is the best indicator for systems of this type," — said Kabanov. He stressed that Pishchal-PRO does not pose any threats to the operator's health and has a medical certificate of user safety.

    GarryB likes this post

    magnumcromagnon
    magnumcromagnon


    Posts : 8138
    Points : 8273
    Join date : 2013-12-05
    Location : Pindos ave., Pindosville, Pindosylvania, Pindostan

    Russian defence against drone swarms - Page 7 Empty Re: Russian defence against drone swarms

    Post  magnumcromagnon Tue Oct 13, 2020 8:44 pm

    Radiation effects of High-Power Microwave(HPM) pulse on the UAV's datalink and Ground Control Station(GCS) antenna.
    Russian defence against drone swarms - Page 7 Ej8wbPjXcAAENLb?format=png&name=large
    Russian defence against drone swarms - Page 7 Ej8wbNJWsAAL_w5?format=png&name=large
    Russian defence against drone swarms - Page 7 Ej8xai8XYAARc49?format=png&name=small

    Apparently the effects on a drone's circuit board.
    Russian defence against drone swarms - Page 7 Ej8wbOPXcAAnT1_?format=png&name=small

    GarryB, ahmedfire and LMFS like this post

    Isos
    Isos


    Posts : 11302
    Points : 11272
    Join date : 2015-11-06

    Russian defence against drone swarms - Page 7 Empty Re: Russian defence against drone swarms

    Post  Isos Tue Oct 13, 2020 8:53 pm

    So if they use for exemple the Irbis radar and focus the beam like when it tracks one target (max power at very small era) and move it randomly in the air, if it "touches" an UAV it should be enough yo damage it.

    Using L band radars should be even better.

    The main issue is that it needs to be a very focus beam.
    magnumcromagnon
    magnumcromagnon


    Posts : 8138
    Points : 8273
    Join date : 2013-12-05
    Location : Pindos ave., Pindosville, Pindosylvania, Pindostan

    Russian defence against drone swarms - Page 7 Empty Re: Russian defence against drone swarms

    Post  magnumcromagnon Tue Oct 13, 2020 9:06 pm

    Isos wrote:So if they use for exemple the Irbis radar and focus the beam like when it tracks one target (max power at very small era) and move it randomly in the air, if it "touches" an UAV it should be enough yo damage it.

    Using L band radars should be even better.

    The main issue is that it needs to be a very focus beam.

    Indeed, except it doesn't necessarily need to be a focus beam it could be a pulse of a (much) higher power emission for a (very) short period of time. The massive boost of power emitted wouldn't be good for the longevity of the system in a continuous manner, but it be would OK for a fraction of a second output.

    Sponsored content


    Russian defence against drone swarms - Page 7 Empty Re: Russian defence against drone swarms

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Thu May 02, 2024 9:41 pm