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    T-90 Main Battle Tank

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    Mike E

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    Re: T-90 Main Battle Tank

    Post  Mike E on Mon Apr 04, 2016 1:24 am

    What do you mean by 'disable'? 

    Like the T-90A - MS could easily pop smoke and simply avoid the missile - which is notably slow. 

    If it impacts from the same angle as the T-90 in Syria, it would probably hit Relikt and stand little chance of penetrating.
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    GarryB

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    Re: T-90 Main Battle Tank

    Post  GarryB on Mon Apr 04, 2016 12:04 pm

    Even the old original SHTORA should defeat a wire guided ATGM system... it simply overwhelms the gionometer in the ATGM launcher so it cannot track the missile anymore. IF it cannot track the missile it cannot guide the missile to the target so the missile will live up to its name and miss(ile).

    http://fofanov.armor.kiev.ua/Tanks/EQP/shtora.html



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    nemrod

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    Re: T-90 Main Battle Tank

    Post  nemrod on Mon Apr 04, 2016 1:13 pm

    Thx for your answers.

    Mike E wrote:
    What do you mean by 'disable'? 

    By disable, I mean unable to fight, if not completely destroyed. I have no confidence on photos showed, exhibited by western medias, that only dream to debunk russian technology, as it was with soviet's technology. As "Gur Khan attacks" 's blog -that is my new favourite-, even RPG-7 could destroy the M1 -U can notice that as Zaloga's stupid fantasies, in his ugly book M1 Abrams vs. T-72 Ural - Operation Desert Storm at Osprey publishing, the M1 Abrams is invulnerable, nothing could stop it. The facts, and the pictures we were witnessed during US occupation in Iraq, and Saudi's occupation in Yemen proved the total contrary -poor Zaloga!-. Even an old 60's era AT-4 spigot could easily destroy, and burn any western tanks, whatever it is the M1-A2, Leopard, Challenger,  or the AMX-40 Leclerc. Then let's leave Zaloga in his bubble, as he worked for the military complex, without objectives other than to serve US soap's propaganda. - and indeed it was the case in Iraq, chiefly in Falludjah. Consequently I supposed that the TOW-2 too, could destroy the T-90. But the Shtora could change all. If the missile's signal is jammed, indeed, the missile could not reach the tank, or has less chances to reach it.
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    Werewolf

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    Re: T-90 Main Battle Tank

    Post  Werewolf on Mon Apr 04, 2016 6:40 pm

    That BGM-71E that was used already had Tandem HEAT warhead and could not penetrate nor disable 1992 model which has same armor layout as T-72B, it certainly could not do anything to an T-90A nor T-90SM/AM with or without ERA.

    GarryB wrote:Even the old original SHTORA should defeat a wire guided ATGM system... it simply overwhelms the gionometer in the ATGM launcher so it cannot track the missile anymore. IF it cannot track the missile it cannot guide the missile to the target so the missile will live up to its name and miss(ile).

    That was a good one. Laughing

    By disable, I mean unable to fight, if not completely destroyed. I have no confidence on photos showed, exhibited by western medias, that only dream to debunk russian technology, as it was with soviet's technology. As "Gur Khan attacks" 's blog -that is my new favourite-, even RPG-7 could destroy the M1 -U can notice that as Zaloga's stupid fantasies, in his ugly book M1 Abrams vs. T-72 Ural - Operation Desert Storm at Osprey publishing, the M1 Abrams is invulnerable, nothing could stop it. The facts, and the pictures we were witnessed during US occupation in Iraq, and Saudi's occupation in Yemen proved the total contrary -poor Zaloga!-. Even an old 60's era AT-4 spigot could easily destroy, and burn any western tanks, whatever it is the M1-A2, Leopard, Challenger, or the AMX-40 Leclerc. Then let's leave Zaloga in his bubble, as he worked for the military complex, without objectives other than to serve US soap's propaganda. - and indeed it was the case in Iraq, chiefly in Falludjah. Consequently I supposed that the TOW-2 too, could destroy the T-90. But the Shtora could change all. If the missile's signal is jammed, indeed, the missile could not reach the tank, or has less chances to reach it.

    130 put of service, 80 M1 Abrams have been destroyed, they just love to use different terms for such facts like "damaged beyond repair" like the data file from US with a very cocky name something like the lines "M1 Abrams the best" which was a report of its performance in Desert Storm has shown how many have been put out by weapons that have not been in use for decades and have been extinct on all battlefields where russians have used their tanks or other users of export models.

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    nemrod

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    Re: T-90 Main Battle Tank

    Post  nemrod on Mon Apr 04, 2016 11:17 pm

    Ugly video from terrorists.

    It seems this tank was hit, but crew seems to be OK. What I don't understand, why did not the shtora jam the TOW-2 ? If the signal was jammed, the missile could not hit the tank. I suspect one of the reason is the fact that team was not enough trained to use in effective way, as the T-90 is recent in Syrian's conflict. Or did the Shtora fail ? If not jammed ?



    Werewolf wrote:
    130 put of service, 80 M1 Abrams have been destroyed, they just love to use different terms for such facts like "damaged beyond repair" like the data file from US with a very cocky name something like the lines "M1 Abrams the best" which was a report of its performance in Desert Storm has shown how many have been put out by weapons that have not been in use for decades and have been extinct on all battlefields where russians have used their tanks or other users of export models.

    To Werewolf.
    I used to beware about the DoD's figures. Most of the time these figures due lobby of US military, or US military complex for commercial reasons are false. I heard in other free forums wrote by veterans, at least 200 M1 Abrams were destroyed. At least 500 M1 were sent back to US. Indeed, most of the time, they invoked "mechanical faillures", as you said "damaged beyond repair" etc...I know that RPG-7 is not enough to destroy an M1 Abrams, nevertheless it could easily disabled it, by hitting its for example its chenilles. Before 2000's I remember that palestinian destroyed, and burned a Merkava by only a simple RPG-7. Nevertheless, a thing is sure the RPG-29 could destroy any tank in the world, including of course the M1 Abrams, and the T-90 itself.

    Generally the tank in urban area is extremely vulnerable, whatever it is, even though it is the T-90 or Armata.


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    Werewolf

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    Re: T-90 Main Battle Tank

    Post  Werewolf on Mon Apr 04, 2016 11:28 pm

    nemrod wrote:Ugly video from terrorists.

    It seems this tank was hit, but crew seems to be OK. What I don't understand, why did not the shtora jam the TOW-2 ? If the signal was jammed, the missile could not hit the tank. I suspect one of the reason is the fact that team was not enough trained to use in effective way, as the T-90 is recent in Syrian's conflict. Or did the Shtora fail ? If not jammed ?

    Shtora does not work with opened hatches aswell the pictures from the damaged T-90 1992 version shows the right (from tanks position) being shot by projectile/shrapnel and it is pretty centered so i would guess that they tried to blind Shtora with sniper fire prior to TOW2 (BGM-71E-3b)
    engagement.


    nemrod wrote:
    To Werewolf.
    I used to beware about the DoD's figures. Most of the time these figures due lobby of US military, or US military complex for commercial reasons are false. I heard in other free forums wrote by veterans, at least 200 M1 Abrams were destroyed. At least 500 M1 were sent back to US. Indeed, most of the time, they invoked "mechanical faillures", as you said "damaged beyond repair" etc...I know that RPG-7 is not enough to destroy an M1 Abrams, nevertheless it could easily disabled it, by hitting its for example its chenilles. Before 2000's I remember  that palestinian destroyed, and burned a Merkava by only a simple RPG-7. Nevertheless, a thing is sure the RPG-29 could destroy any tank in the world, including of course the M1 Abrams, and the T-90 itself.

    Generally the tank in urban area is extremely vulnerable, whatever it is, even though it is the T-90 or Armata.



    You don't need to tell me that. I already had an thread about Yugo/Serbian war in 1999 about the losses of NATO aircrafts which were several times beyond what US has admitted. Like always US denies any destroyed equipment or dead soldiers where it can deny it, that reason is for the indoctrinated superiority to keep their troops fed with that lie so the moral is high aswell indoctrination of a fascist narcisstic spirit of US Americans to believe they are superior aswell the constant Islambashing and Muslimphobia and hatred that is spread since 2001 to keep the muslims as non humans in the scums heads, because it is easier to kill someone that you do not see as a human and that is why they indoctrinate them with the very same methods of the Untermensch propaganda.

    The losses of Apaches in Iraq were only and exclusivley Apaches have been reported crashed without enemy engagement is already a lie aswell the figures, the tank losses are just a fraction of the actual losses.
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    nemrod

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    Re: T-90 Main Battle Tank

    Post  nemrod on Tue Apr 05, 2016 12:10 am

    Thx Werewolf for your answer.
    Werewolf wrote:
    You don't need to tell me that.
    OK, it is seen for the next time Very Happy
    Werewolf wrote:
    The losses of Apaches in Iraq were only and exclusivley Apaches have been reported crashed without enemy engagement is already a lie aswell the figures, the tank losses are just a fraction of the actual losses.

    If you have links to provide please, do not hesitate.

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    VladimirSahin

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    Re: T-90 Main Battle Tank

    Post  VladimirSahin on Sun Apr 10, 2016 4:44 am

    Lads, I've been looking for articles regarding purchase of T-90AMs I thought it was announced they'd be bought. Any news regarding it?
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    Mike E

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    Re: T-90 Main Battle Tank

    Post  Mike E on Sun Apr 10, 2016 4:56 am

    It was announced a while ago (with the T-90M models at Army-2015) and later reinforced at RAE. 

    Nothing new since then, I suspect;
    - Delays from Armata and B3 upgrading. 
    - It simply hasn't been put into motion yet. 

    I wouldn't worry - worst case scenario we get more T-14's instead.
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    VladimirSahin

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    Re: T-90 Main Battle Tank

    Post  VladimirSahin on Sun Apr 10, 2016 5:01 am

    Mike E wrote:It was announced a while ago (with the T-90M models at Army-2015) and later reinforced at RAE. 

    Nothing new since then, I suspect;
    - Delays from Armata and B3 upgrading. 
    - It simply hasn't been put into motion yet. 

    I wouldn't worry - worst case scenario we get more T-14's instead.

    I see, Thanks for the info. It's just I want some T-90Ms in service Very Happy when are the first T-14s being brought into service?
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    Mike E

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    Re: T-90 Main Battle Tank

    Post  Mike E on Sun Apr 10, 2016 5:20 am

    If I had to guess - mid to late 2017 is the most likely date. It's been known for a while that 2016 would be full of testing and trials. Assuming they are finished early-17, then...mid that year. 

    Could be early next year if we are lucky. 

    (And 2S35 should be in service by the end of this year - maybe atop the Armata chassis.)

    Austin

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    Re: T-90 Main Battle Tank

    Post  Austin on Sat Apr 23, 2016 8:57 am

    Can any one answer this query

    1 ) Any internal picture of how ammo is stored inside the turret of T-90 tanks , I believe 22 are in autoloader the rest are stored in turret.

    2 ) In case of T-90MS , 22 are in autoloaded , but 18 are stored externally isnt that a draw back as they cannot be loaded without going out and cannot be accessed externally ?
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    Mike E

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    Re: T-90 Main Battle Tank

    Post  Mike E on Sat Apr 23, 2016 9:06 am



    2) 8 of those 18 rounds are kept in-vehicle adjacent to the carousel, being protected by armoured boxes. 


    Generally, 30 rounds is more than enough.

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    Re: T-90 Main Battle Tank

    Post  Austin on Sat Apr 23, 2016 9:17 am

    Mike E wrote:
    2) 8 of those 18 rounds are kept in-vehicle adjacent to the carousel, being protected by armoured boxes. 

    Any images on how they look like

    Also if they how to load it in the autoloader how do they do it ? is it time consuming affair ?
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    GarryB

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    Re: T-90 Main Battle Tank

    Post  GarryB on Sat Apr 23, 2016 2:34 pm

    The 22 rounds in the under floor autoloader have an armoured plate over the top so any turret penetration will not effect the ammo with a shower of sparks and hot fragments.

    the 8 further rounds stored in the hull are reportedly in a small armoured box behind the turret ring in front of the engine.

    The remaining 13 rounds are in the rear turret bustle separated from the crew compartment.

    Generally in combat it is not direct contact with enemy all the time and during a lull in the fighting the tank can withdraw to a safe area with cover where the crew can retrieve the rounds from the rear turret bustle and load them into the autoloader and internal ammo box.

    It means they don't have to fully withdraw to the staging area for a reload.

    With accuracy improvements and improved sensors 43 rounds is a lot of fire power on its own.

    the alternative of having live rounds in the crew compartment is a death sentence for the crew if the vehicle is penetrated.


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    Re: T-90 Main Battle Tank

    Post  Austin on Sat Apr 23, 2016 7:16 pm

    Thanks Garry but its total 40 rounds not 43.

    Do you have any pictures of the armoured box where the Ammo is stored behind the turret ring in front of engine ? Does the T-90 tank also stores it similarly ?

    How does one reload the round in the autoloader ? Any videos and is it a simple affair ?
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    GarryB

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    Re: T-90 Main Battle Tank

    Post  GarryB on Mon Apr 25, 2016 6:14 am

    43 for the standard T-90...

    I have not seen any videos of reloading the autoloader but each component is handed into the turret to a crewman sitting in the commanders seat with the shield protecting him from the gun breach open. Very simply a propellent charge and a single round are handed in one at a time to be loaded into the under floor magazine with the type of ammo recorded in the autoloader system so when a type of round is selected for loading the mechanism can spin around to the correct position for that type of round to be loaded (and the propellent stub).

    Loading rounds stored internally would obviously be easier, but still relatively slow...


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    Zivo

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    Re: T-90 Main Battle Tank

    Post  Zivo on Mon Apr 25, 2016 8:49 pm

    Check this out. A really cool interactive panoramic view of the T-90 for the V-Day rehearsal.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9MM0WDe9eA
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    Werewolf

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    Re: T-90 Main Battle Tank

    Post  Werewolf on Mon Apr 25, 2016 8:56 pm

    WTF 360°?
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    AlfaT8

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    Re: T-90 Main Battle Tank

    Post  AlfaT8 on Tue Apr 26, 2016 3:17 am

    Werewolf wrote:WTF 360°?

    +1 WW, first time i ever heard that.
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    Dima

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    Re: T-90 Main Battle Tank

    Post  Dima on Tue May 10, 2016 8:06 pm

    In the morning when I read Aldin's post I didn't understand what he meant by his below post, but now I get why it was... Hope it is true and there was not much of a damage.

    Aldin Abazović ‏@Ald_Aba 20 hours ago
    Southern #Aleppo #Syria - #Russia #SAA T-90 21_6 active again..
    https://twitter.com/Ald_Aba/status/729788187573428225

    Btw, from the videos posted it looks like the tank was having its back/side exposed to the terrorists LOS. Hope the crew is safe.


    SouthFront: Militants use US-made BGM 71 against Russian-made T-90 in Aleppo province
    https://www.almasdarnews.com/article/southfront-militants-use-us-made-bgm-71-russian-made-t-90-aleppo-province/

    On May 10, the Free Syrian Army released a video, claiming that they destroyed a Russian-made T-90 with a US-made anti-tank missile, BGM-71 TOW. The incident allegedly took place near Humayra, 10 kilometers south of Aleppo City.

    Pro-militant sources that the battle tank has been destroyed.

    Other sources report that this T-90 has been observed active in Southern Aleppo after the event:





    Anyway waiting to hear more on the strike and the assessment. But like the previous successful strike on T-90 (means in cases where the TOW actually managed to get a contact on the tank), in this case also there is not much footage release from the terrorists side.
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    Dima

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    Re: T-90 Main Battle Tank

    Post  Dima on Thu Jun 02, 2016 8:28 pm

    This new development is probably a direct result of T-90s successful campaign in Syria. Any idea when Algeria ordered these...maybe it came with T-90s that were shipped to Algeria recently?


    Shtora countermeasures seen on Algerian T-90
    Jens Kastner (INS), London - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly

    A photograph released by Algeria's Ministry of National Defence (MDN) on 26 May confirms it is now operating T-90 tanks with the Shtora countermeasures system.

    The photograph shows Chief of the National People's Army Lieutenant General Ahmed Gaid Saleh inspecting the 26th Armoured Regiment during a visit to the 3rd Military Region, which covers the western provinces of Bechar and Tindouf on the Moroccan and Mauritanian borders.

    The Shtora can be identified by the presence of two infrared emitters fitted either side of the tank's main gun. These are designed to deceive the guidance systems on some types of anti-tank guided weapons (ATGWs). The Shtora was previously only seen on Russian tanks before October 2015, but some Syrian forces may now be operating a small number of T-90s fitted with the system.

    Russia delivered 185 T-90s to Algeria in 2006-08 and 187 in 2012-13, according to information submitted by Moscow to the UN Office of Disarmament Affairs.

    The Shtora may only be fitted to a more recent consignment of T-90s. Photographs circulated in December 2015 showing T-90s being unloaded in Oran from a roll-on/roll-off cargo ship that had sailed from Ust-Luga on Russia's Baltic Sea. The same ship made the same voyage a second time in March.

    No T-90s were seen in the Algerian television coverage of an exercise held earlier in Gen Saleh's five-day visit to the 3rd Military Region. This reportedly featured units from the 40th Mechanised Division, which were equipped with extensively upgraded T-55 tanks, upgraded BMP-1 infantry fighting vehicles, D-30 and BM-21 Grad artillery, and air defence systems including ZSU-23-4 Shilka self-propelled anti-aircraft guns and the more advanced Pantsyr-S1.
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    Dima

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    Re: T-90 Main Battle Tank

    Post  Dima on Thu Jun 02, 2016 9:05 pm

    Ok...Shotra probably came along with the last shipment in Dec 2015. Shotra was not visible in those pics....  

    Hassan Ridha ‏@sayed_ridha
    Russia sending T-90s to Algeria
    https://twitter.com/sayed_ridha/status/678878279311298560



    From Algerian thread posted by berhoum in Feb 2016

    volna

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    Re: T-90 Main Battle Tank

    Post  volna on Fri Jun 03, 2016 3:51 am

    Why not put the emitter outside the ERA cover just like the Oplot tank?
    I thought it's the better way.
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    KoTeMoRe

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    Re: T-90 Main Battle Tank

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Fri Jun 03, 2016 8:31 am

    volna wrote:Why not put the emitter outside the ERA cover just like the Oplot tank?
    I thought it's the better way.

    It is outside the EraCover...


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