Russian Assault Rifles/Carbines/Machine Guns Thread: #1

It's a light machine gun. Strengthened reciever, longer heavier barrel, RPD as in Ruchnoy Pulemet Dragunov, Not RPK (Ruchnoy Pulemet Kalashnikov)

If it is a light machine gun why did you call it a rifle?

Rifle is available in both calibres. Also NOT an RPK, ths is clearly a Dragunov design. So Ima call this RPD-400.

How come Kalashnikov suddenly rediscovered Dragunov? SVU-A was pretty much fully automatic SVD.

They have been upgrading the SVD just as much as the AK... the VS-121 is an example of this.

Also looks eerily like the Simonov prototypes, also property of Izhmash...I'd need a full strip to point out the innards, but clearly, it looks like Izhmash is going the Norinco route with a Kalashnistein of a rifle.

Even the most modern and radical looking super new stealth fighter has tires that would not look out of place on a 1960s design... not everything needs to be new. Some things already work fine.

GarryB wrote:

It's a light machine gun. Strengthened reciever, longer heavier barrel, RPD as in Ruchnoy Pulemet Dragunov, Not RPK (Ruchnoy Pulemet Kalashnikov)

If it is a light machine gun why did you call it a rifle?

Rifle is available in both calibres. Also NOT an RPK, ths is clearly a Dragunov design. So Ima call this RPD-400.

How come Kalashnikov suddenly rediscovered Dragunov? SVU-A was pretty much fully automatic SVD.

They have been upgrading the SVD just as much as the AK... the VS-121 is an example of this.

Also looks eerily like the Simonov prototypes, also property of Izhmash...I'd need a full strip to point out the innards, but clearly, it looks like Izhmash is going the Norinco route with a Kalashnistein of a rifle.

Even the most modern and radical looking super new stealth fighter has tires that would not look out of place on a 1960s design... not everything needs to be new. Some things already work fine.

Because I was adressing the AD 400 in my mind. Slip of tongue.
I don't disagree that things aren't radically new. The Ak receiver is testament to that.

sepheronx wrote:https://southfront.org/russia-defense-report-ak-12-or-ak-74m3/

Kote,  This I think was a poorly done video by southfront and I want your opinion.  Here is what I stated:

Just to mention yet again, which I did prior on this site, Budget cuts has not hit SAP2020 program. All procurement fall under SAP2020 and Putin himself stated that there is no cuts in procurement but a 5% cut in various other areas in the defense spending:http://russia-insider.com/en/putin-vows-defense-cut-wont-affect-procurement/ri13332
And those very knowledgeable in the Kalashnikov plant and its doings, state that there will be a release of very important info about new design or adjustments to show in the next coming months. ZID plant was recently modernized with newer equipment and other such stuff for production purposes and even at that, production capacity is currently full so unless they split the production with the KBP plant, there isn't any way they will make 50,000 a year.

I noticed I made a major error.  Ill fix it.

Edit:

Edit: I made a major error. ZID plant is the one making the AEK-971. Regardless both designs were chosen technically. And there was a major modernization of the Kalashnikov plant.

Procurement is still 23T Rubles.

I'm going to comment on the appropriate thread, but three points take into consideration.

1. There's a technical part and a procurement part. I can comment on the technical side of the issue (Who does what and when) more or less, I can't for sure comment on what the Russian MO will do.
2. The analysis of the situation regarding the small arms question, was way off on the the technical side of the deal. Every revealed detail so far clearly points to the following.
3. While the AK74MX is a possibility, it's still at a disadvantage if the modernization doesn't take on the small flaws of the AK system. So inherently the debate whereby the AK-12/A545 are required is non sense, they are required if you want a rifle that isn't half assed. Modernizing the AK74 will simply drag the current rifles a little further. Ok it's a nice clean job so far, because the rifles are more durable than the greed of an oligarch, but cui bono? Why not restarting with a redesign or hell a variation of what they already know.

In that aspect the AK-400 is clearly a midwife solution.

Also from what is going on, we can clearly see that ZID for all it prowess will be stuck with support weapons (PKP/PKM/Kord, KPV). And Izhmash with the individual weapons. Also the's going to be a real issue for Kalashnikov as the MO will probably split a deal. RPK/D-400 will be killed off for the Tokar and the A545 will be killed off for the AK-12. It's going to be a mess, since the AK-12 ultimately can do most of the things the RPK/D would, but in a totally illogical fashion IF the Tokar gets a GO, then the guys on the field might well find themselves with two completely new and non reciprocable systems to iron out. Although given this is Russia, the reciprocity can mostly be achieved by a hammer and file.

Because I was adressing the AD 400 in my mind. Slip of tongue.

I am not upset about it...

Just potential for confusion when you call a weapon a rifle and then describe it as being a LMG...

For those not familiar with Russian and Soviet designations, A means assault rifle like AK or AS, P means machinegun like Kalashnikovs machine gun the PK, RP means LMG, like RPD or RPK... SV are sniper rifles like SV-99 and SVD, and P means pistol like PM makarov, while PP means submachine gun like PPSh.
Note the attached letters relate to the designer... ie K in AK and RPK and PK is Kalashnikov, while M in PM is Makarov, PPSh is Shpagin, SVD is dragunov.

It is interesting that they are also using numbers... for the SV-98 and SV-99.

GarryB wrote:

Because I was adressing the AD 400 in my mind. Slip of tongue.

I am not upset about it...  

Just potential for confusion when you call a weapon a rifle and then describe it as being a LMG...

For those not familiar with Russian and Soviet designations, A means assault rifle like AK or AS, P means machinegun like Kalashnikovs machine gun the PK, RP means LMG, like RPD or RPK... SV are sniper rifles like SV-99 and SVD, and P means pistol like PM makarov, while PP means submachine gun like PPSh.
Note the attached letters relate to the designer... ie K in AK and RPK and PK is Kalashnikov, while M in PM is Makarov, PPSh is Shpagin, SVD is dragunov.

It is interesting that they are also using numbers... for the SV-98 and SV-99.

Well educated about designation of russian fire arms for a foreigner, i am impressed.

AN-94:

George1 wrote:Say Hello to My Little Friend: Russia Develops New Special Ops Machinegun

A research and development association affiliated with Russia’s Ministry of the Interior has launched a bidding process for the development of a new light machinegun.

The request for proposal for the development of this new weapon, codenamed Tokar-2, was published on the Russian government procurement official website. R&D costs totaled approximately $386,000.

The new 5.45mm machinegun, designated Kord-5.45,  is to be specifically designed as a lightweight and compact weapon for special forces to use during close quarters fighting, like storming enemy-held buildings and urban warfare.

The machinegun’s length (with folded stock and minus the flash suppressor) must not exceed 900mm with a long barrel and 750mm with a short barrel, and must weigh no more than 7 kilograms. The new weapon’s rate of fire is to be about 800-900 shots per minute, and it is to be fed both with ammo belts and 60-round ammo clips, as well as with ammo clips for AK-74 assault rifles and RPK-74 light machineguns.

The first prototypes of the Kord-5.45 are expected to be produced by the end of 2016.

Read more: http://sputniknews.com/military/20160517/1039729172/russia-special-forces-weapon-development.html#ixzz48uFrAdO6

Brothers, you already knew this, we spoke about this, numerous times. Prototypes have been put out and shown at least in three occasions, including one to Vova. And we have all seen "some" pictures. Tokar-2 is ZID going up the next level.

Let's go back to my opinion:

Old Commie wrote:Also from what is going on, we can clearly see that ZID for all it prowess will be stuck with support weapons (PKP/PKM/Kord, KPV). And Izhmash with the individual weapons. Also the's going to be a real issue for Kalashnikov as the MO will probably split a deal. RPK/D-400 will be killed off for the Tokar and the A545 will be killed off for the AK-12. It's going to be a mess, since the AK-12 ultimately can do most of the things the RPK/D would, but in a totally illogical fashion IF the Tokar gets a GO, then the guys on the field might well find themselves with two completely new and non reciprocable systems to iron out. Although given this is Russia, the reciprocity can mostly be achieved by a hammer and file.

Personally this spells doom for A545 and RPD-400, although it could also spell doom for the AK-12 given how the Tokar is a ZID weapon and this is a Special Purpose weapon. Says A LOT about the actual Izhmash program.

Can't wait to see it

Any other photos of this gun or is that the only one?

sepheronx wrote:Any other photos of this gun or is that the only one?

Check this thread there were other pictures including a videoclip of the static displays at ZID.

Ok guys

Something special today.

American host of a gunpage, used on a local match a Russian military setup.

AK74M+1P63 Obzor.

his opinion?

Find out here.



More on the 1P63

Good find KoTeMoRe

He was interesting to listen too.

Yeah Karl is a born pedagogue. Explains a lot of things simply and swiftly.

AEK-971:

Hahaah ZID does Black PR too. Ahahahahahah.

Wonderful rifle, wonderful video.

10/10 Arctic Fox!

Pre-Prod AN94 in bonus...Damn.

KoTeMoRe wrote:Hahaah ZID does Black PR too. Ahahahahahah.

Wonderful rifle, wonderful video.

10/10 Arctic Fox!

Pre-Prod AN94 in bonus...Damn.

Thank you Kotemore,
you know, AEK looks a lot less complex than i tought it was, i really hope to see VDV using A545/A762 in a near future.

Arctic_Fox wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:Hahaah ZID does Black PR too. Ahahahahahah.

Wonderful rifle, wonderful video.

10/10 Arctic Fox!

Pre-Prod AN94 in bonus...Damn.

Thank you Kotemore,
you know, AEK looks a lot less complex than i tought it was, i really hope to see VDV using A545/A762 in a near future.

"Old Aek" was a bit more Agro, but this is 2009 variant? A545 is even better in that respect. Also don't forget, AEK was never rejected due to complexity (FFS it lost to the AN "Black Magic" 94) it was rejected due to the fact the AN94 is Black Magic in two round burst. Also look at the minimal muzzle rise. It's a fantastic rifle. I love it to death, because it's everything the AK is not. Balanced, more ergonomic, very simple, very smooth.

KoTeMoRe wrote:

Arctic_Fox wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:Hahaah ZID does Black PR too. Ahahahahahah.

Wonderful rifle, wonderful video.

10/10 Arctic Fox!

Pre-Prod AN94 in bonus...Damn.

Thank you Kotemore,
you know, AEK looks a lot less complex than i tought it was, i really hope to see VDV using A545/A762 in a near future.

"Old Aek" was a bit more Agro, but this is 2009 variant? A545 is even better in that respect. Also don't forget, AEK was never rejected due to complexity (FFS it lost to the AN "Black Magic" 94) it was rejected due to the fact the AN94 is Black Magic in two round burst. Also look at the minimal muzzle rise. It's a fantastic rifle. I love it to death, because it's everything the AK is not. Balanced, more ergonomic, very simple, very smooth.

It just does not have the lobby, the name nor the reputation to shine with.

What is the difference between AEK's (A545)2009 and pre 2009 (AEK-971)?

i wonder why we don't see more AEK's and AN's in service with spetsnaz units, they even use some western rifles like HK416/417, but you rarely see some video or pictures of one of these two russian wonders being used.

Werewolf wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:

Arctic_Fox wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:Hahaah ZID does Black PR too. Ahahahahahah.

Wonderful rifle, wonderful video.

10/10 Arctic Fox!

Pre-Prod AN94 in bonus...Damn.

Thank you Kotemore,
you know, AEK looks a lot less complex than i tought it was, i really hope to see VDV using A545/A762 in a near future.

"Old Aek" was a bit more Agro, but this is 2009 variant? A545 is even better in that respect. Also don't forget, AEK was never rejected due to complexity (FFS it lost to the AN "Black Magic" 94) it was rejected due to the fact the AN94 is Black Magic in two round burst. Also look at the minimal muzzle rise. It's a fantastic rifle. I love it to death, because it's everything the AK is not. Balanced, more ergonomic, very simple, very smooth.

It just does not have the lobby, the name nor the reputation to shine with.

What is the difference between AEK's (A545)2009 and pre 2009 (AEK-971)?

Guide for BARS system. Controls (previously it was a shortened AK style lever). Muzzle brake/device. Internals were a bit more "Soviet" the counter-balancing guiderod was thicker and non-integrated like the new one. Furniture was simple bakelite. Proprietary Folding mechanism. Roughly around 2006 there was a product improvement. Detachable/Drop in fire controls and trigger, integrated BARS, Black "polymer furniture. N-rail standard, guide changed, but still worked on a AK stamped receiver. And then A545, roughly the same rifle (although there was a slight redesign of the housing of bolt action) but with H&K legacy furniture, dioptre sight, Hinged Polymer lower receiver for the firecontrols and trigger. Rails (although they're not integral, but bolted on like the FNC). New Muzzle Brake modification. New stampings for the upper and monolithing upper on the first A545 variant.

Arctic_Fox wrote:i wonder why we don't see more AEK's and AN's in service with spetsnaz units, they even use some western rifles like HK416/417, but you rarely see some video or pictures of one of these two russian wonders being used.

Hum...Availability. Even if you want them, the product just isn't there. The initial batch of rifles is in very bad shape by now (we're talking 1996/1999 rifles seen in the infamous dump fire video in Chechnya), and then no one wanted to buy them. Rumour is that about 200 were bought for FSB in 2007 and some were bought by some MVD outlets but no foreign sales.

As for the AN...people just didn't liked the gun once in service, the manufacturing wasn't brilliant initially and the system has got to move on another level. But again with the AK system being dumb-solid pretty much clears the floor from a soldier perspective. And then you have Izhmash (lobby), which produces also the AN.

But the reason is this, the AK74, despite many of its shortcomings is one hell of a rifle. And as now you can adapt it through external modifications to shoot at 80% of the AEK or 70% of the AN it still is plenty enough for the its purpose. Which is shooting assholes in the face.

Actually this is an intermediate rifle...(02 151) Rifle N° 151 Year 2002.
This is what the early model receiver looked like



Here (98 114) Rifle 114 Year 1998.

And finally a 2009 variant prepared for Ratnik entry.

RPK(D)-400 and RPK(D)-400 dual.

Not really relevant but...

https://www.rt.com/usa/346204-made-usa-kalashnikov-weapons/

US Special Operations Command is seeking domestic producers of old Soviet weapons, including the iconic AK-47 assault rifle. Supplying such weapons to friendly groups may sometimes be better than sending NATO standard arms.

A solicitation to purchase ‘Made in USA’ weapons was placed by SOCom last month. In addition to Kalashnikov AK-47s, the Pentagon wants to explore making domestic purchases of Dragunuv sniper rifles, Kalashnikov light machine guns and heavy machine guns such as the DShK and the KPV.

Some of the models mentioned in the notice are pretty old. The AK-47 has been in service since 1949, while the DShK came even earlier, in 1938.

The market research request designates the Soviet arms as “non-standard weapons.” Lt. Cmdr. Matt Allen, a spokesman for the command, said the solicitation was a starting point and not a bidding process.

"This will help us explore what capacity and capability there is within the USindustrial base," he told the Tampa Bay Times. "After that, we will better understand what could be provided, which missions they may be appropriate to support and to which approved partners they could be beneficial."

"Kalashnikov" choice

Automatic "Warriors" will choose by year's end
Close to completing the advanced testing machine AK-12, which, together with another product of the concern "Kalashnikov" - the AK-15 and upgraded AEK-971 of the plant. Degtyareva can be used as a base of small arms in battle gear "Warrior". This was announced by the head of state corporation "Rostec" Sergei Chemezov.

According to him, after the inspection machines will pass on trial operation in troops. And only by its results in the Defense Ministry will decide which product to adopt the "hope that the decision will be made in the current year", - quotes "Interfax" the words Chemezov.

Recall that he "Warrior" has massively supplied to military units. According to the Commander of the Land Forces Oleg Salyukova, last year it received about 80 thousand. Soldiers and officers. But with a small arsenal of the "warrior" clarity is still no. Please recommend successfully passed state tests, and tested in the army sniper rifle SVD-M and the automatic grenade launcher AGS-30. As well as two versions of the upgraded machine gun "Pecheneg" - single and 6P69 6P41M for special forces.

According to the Central Research Institute of precision engineering composed 6P69 device includes a low-noise shooting and rails for the installation of optical sights and night. 6P41M version compared to the base "Pechenegs" also received the bar for the sights, and more - adjustable in length, change the position of the bipod.

As for the base machine for "Warrior", after much hesitation, customers seem to have stopped on the Izhevsk AK-12 caliber 5.45 mm. Among its advantages, experts called the new trigger mechanism that allows to recharge the machine with one hand.

But Kovrov AEK-971 has a balanced automation, reducing the knock of the weapon. But crucial to the dispute of the two machines can be not only their technical characteristics. In case certain economic factors intervene. Deputy Defense Minister Yuri Borisov has said that the priority of the AK-12 mainly consists in its price characteristics. Here he compares favorably with AEK-971 they Degtyareva plant. Borisov previously mentioned, the new "Kalashnikov" agency cost just a quarter more expensive than the regular AK. A machine designed to Kovrov, due to the complexity of the design, deployment, its serial production and modernization of the plant will cost considerably more expensive.