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BMP-1 and BMP-2 in Russian Army

kopyo-21

kopyo-21: Posts : 203
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Join date : 2013-08-21
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Post n°101

Re: BMP-1 and BMP-2 in Russian Army

kopyo-21 Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:01 am

This BMP-2 served in the Russian peace keeping force before didplaying in museum. You can the second and the third photos that were taken in Pristina, the gun was still the same with what we see in the museum now. It is obviously not 2a42 gun.

http://daytlt.ru/v-tolyatti-vosstanovlena-bmp-mirotvorcheskoj-missii

franco

franco: Posts : 6708
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Post n°102

Re: BMP-1 and BMP-2 in Russian Army

franco Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:10 am

First BMP-2M battalion to be equipped in 2018 in Orenburg... would have to be the 21st Motor Rifle brigade.

http://bastion-karpenko.ru/bmp-2m/

kopyo-21

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Post n°103

Re: BMP-1 and BMP-2 in Russian Army

kopyo-21 Wed Feb 21, 2018 3:44 am

I think they can convert the T-72 or T-90 "Burlak" to become a real BMPT. What need to do is:

- Replacing main gun by a 60° elevated 120mm gun/mortar coaxial with a 40mm Balkan grenade.
- Adding more a small turret on the left side of main turret like on starboard, each small turret equips a pair of Ags-40 Balkan 40mm grenade and KPVB 23mm atomatic gun, and an elec-optronic aiming devide. They can cover/fire 360° around the vehicle.
- Installing a S-68 57mm gun/ammunition pod on the rear compartment of main turret.
- Equipping a 7.62mm gun attached to panoramic elec-optronic devide of commander (like on T-90SM)
- 5 crews: 1 driver, 3 weaponers and 1 commander.

Finally, the total fire power will be very powefull that can attake 4 different targets simultaneously with:
- 1 120mm gun/mortar
- 1 57mm gun
- 3 40mm grenade guns.
- 2 23mm guns
- 1 7.62mm gun

BMP-1 and BMP-2 in Russian Army - Page 5 1429755254_001

BMP-1 and BMP-2 in Russian Army - Page 5 Burlak

The "Burlak" turret vs T-90SM's turret: BMP-1 and BMP-2 in Russian Army - Page 5 1429755169_375450_original

BMP-1 and BMP-2 in Russian Army - Page 5 1be68c84879149cc1fdc6a59fad51bb1--weapons-guns-russia

GarryB

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Post n°104

Re: BMP-1 and BMP-2 in Russian Army

GarryB Wed Feb 21, 2018 4:51 am

First of all the muzzle break on the 2A42 is not part of the barrel and can be removed, but the recoil mechanism of the 2A42 is quite distinctive and clearly not there.

This could be the 2A72 mounted on the vehicle but it is a pretty specialised one as most have barrel weights in rings on them where they are supported on BMP-3 mounts next to the 2A70 100mm rifled gun.

If you look at the videos of the BTR-80A in MINDSTORMS video you can see the ring weights on the barrel that are not present on this gun.

With it being used by the VDV perhaps they got to pick what main gun it had and chose the 2A72 over the 2A42 in this case. for air delivery perhaps they wanted a lighter gun?

kopyo-21

kopyo-21: Posts : 203
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Post n°105

Re: BMP-1 and BMP-2 in Russian Army

kopyo-21 Wed Feb 21, 2018 8:08 am

The 2A72 gun on the BMP-2 looks the same with the gun on North Korea BTR-80A with the extended/longer barrel's root. Not sure if the later is original or NK's 2A72 copy.

NK BTR-80A BMP-1 and BMP-2 in Russian Army - Page 5 8575696127_6440206788_k

BMP-1 and BMP-2 in Russian Army - Page 5 8575696127_6440206788_k

BMP-1 and BMP-2 in Russian Army - Page 5 Btr80a

Interlinked

Interlinked: Posts : 160
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Post n°106

Re: BMP-1 and BMP-2 in Russian Army

Interlinked Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:36 pm

I asked one of the mechanics who works at the Tolyatti Technical Museum. He was a peacekeeper at Pristina, and he says that it is indeed a 2A72, but a limited edition modification of the BMP-2. It's a rare example and definitely not standard in the Russian Army.

BTW: second and third photos are not in Pristina. Please don't make up your own facts! The two photos show regular people going for a joyride. Notice the reenactor in a WW2 era Red Army summer uniform in photo 2? Or the plain-clothed guy sitting in the gunner's spot in photo 3? Or the lack of a gunsight on the turret? Or the GoPro on the guy's shirt?

kopyo-21 wrote:You can the second and the third photos that were taken in Pristina, the gun was still the same with what we see in the museum now. It is obviously not 2a42 gun.

GarryB

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Post n°107

Re: BMP-1 and BMP-2 in Russian Army

GarryB Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:41 am

The limited edition version must have been a failure because all the others we see are identical to the ones of the BMP-3 with the support "weight" rings on them for the mount with the 100mm 2A70 gun.

AFAIK the gun on the Kliver turret uses the same rings but has an external structure to support the gun and use the rings I presume... so there must be some benefit to keeping them because not having them would be cheaper and lighter and easier, yet they clearly put them on in situations where they are no extra value like on a BTR-80A.

Interlinked

Interlinked: Posts : 160
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Post n°108

Re: BMP-1 and BMP-2 in Russian Army

Interlinked Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:55 am

Clearly

I guess it only exists because they saw the situation in Kosovo as an opportunity to test new weapons/modifications in field conditions.

kopyo-21

kopyo-21: Posts : 203
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Post n°109

Re: BMP-1 and BMP-2 in Russian Army

kopyo-21 Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:15 am

Not sure if the rings on 2A72's barrel are really usefull without the supportive sleeve. They may be using old barrels stocked from USSR time or just lazy to change unharmfull things. We can see Chinese (lincensed?) 2A72 guns without rings on the barrel.

Chinese... BMP-1 and BMP-2 in Russian Army - Page 5 Chinese%2BPLA%2Binventory%2Bduring%2BVictory%2Bmatch%2B1

BMP-1 and BMP-2 in Russian Army - Page 5 Chinese%2BPLA%2Binventory%2Bduring%2BVictory%2Bmatch%2B1

This BTR-80A of Russian Special Force is also using 2A72 gun without rings on the barrel like NK's BTR-80A (previous post) BMP-1 and BMP-2 in Russian Army - Page 5 Special-forces-op-against-suspec

BMP-1 and BMP-2 in Russian Army - Page 5 Special-forces-op-against-suspec

https://truthbroadcastnetwork.com/special-forces-op-against-suspected-militants-in-dagestan-russia/

Last edited by kopyo-21 on Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:42 am; edited 1 time in total

Interlinked

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Post n°110

Re: BMP-1 and BMP-2 in Russian Army

Interlinked Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:40 am

There doesn't seem to be any pattern to these things. The 2A72 was originally designed for the BMP-3, and the original barrel had the support rings. In the 90's, other vehicles that used the 2A72 kept the support rings, even if they were not put to use (probably for balance purposes?). Pantsir-S prototype used dual 2A72 cannons with the support rings, but no barrel support. BTR-80A uses a 2A72 with the support rings, but no barrel support. Only the "Pristina BMP-2" has this smooth barrel design, and we know for a fact that it is a special one-time-only modification. Perhaps it is only an experimental model that was actually optimized to be fired without a barrel support? Who knows? If it was successful, why does the special forces BTR-80A have the smooth barrel but the regular BTR-82A does not?

PS: There is actually something a little different about the 2A72 on the "Pristina BMP-2". If you look at the shock absorber at the base of the barrel, you will see that it does not match the standard shock absorber and is actually a bit longer. The standard one is a straight tube with collars at both ends. The lengthened version is tapered and has indentations around the middle.

BMP-1 and BMP-2 in Russian Army - Page 5 56411

BMP-1 and BMP-2 in Russian Army - Page 5 56411

BMP-1 and BMP-2 in Russian Army - Page 5 17299710

Last edited by Interlinked on Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:00 am; edited 2 times in total

kopyo-21

kopyo-21: Posts : 203
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Post n°111

Re: BMP-1 and BMP-2 in Russian Army

kopyo-21 Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:50 am

I noticed that exteded/longer barrel's absorbent when first seeing it, similar to the NR-30 gun barrel's absorbent. Sofar we have seen 4 versions of 2A72 guns:

- The first is on the BMP-3s with short/normal barrel's absorbent and with rings on barrel.
- The second is on the RF peacekeeping BMP-2 and NK's BTR-80As with extended/longer barrel absorbent and without rings on barrel.
- The third is on BTR-80As of Russian Special Force and Chinese EZB-03 with normal/short barrel's absorbent and whithout rings on barrel.
- The fourth is on the BMP-3 (prototype?) displaying in Kubina museum with extended/longer barrel's absorbent and with rings on barrel.

Last edited by kopyo-21 on Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:11 am; edited 1 time in total

Interlinked

Interlinked: Posts : 160
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Post n°112

Re: BMP-1 and BMP-2 in Russian Army

Interlinked Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:09 am

Yeah, but the North Korean BTR-80A that you mentioned doesn't have the extended shock absorber. I added two photos in my previous post that shows the collars at the ends of the shock absorber tube. The NK version definitely looks like it has the collar at the end.

kopyo-21

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Post n°113

Re: BMP-1 and BMP-2 in Russian Army

kopyo-21 Mon Feb 26, 2018 7:32 am

Some photos of KPVB 23x115mm gun that obviously scaled up from KPVT 14.5mm gun. Compare between them, the effective ranges are quite the same (~ 2,000m) while the 23x115 projectiles is more powerfull than 14.5x114mm ones in both AP (steel penetration) and HE (HE filler content).
BMP-1 and BMP-2 in Russian Army - Page 5 20064670

BMP-1 and BMP-2 in Russian Army - Page 5 Brdm-2_w_ags-17_076_of_100

BMP-1 and BMP-2 in Russian Army - Page 5 Brdm-2_w_ags-17_029_of_100

kopyo-21

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Post n°114

Re: BMP-1 and BMP-2 in Russian Army

kopyo-21 Fri Mar 02, 2018 7:44 am

Interlinked wrote:Kopyo, do you know what the 3rd axis is in "3-axis stabilization"?

Have you not known that yet?

Interlinked

Interlinked: Posts : 160
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Post n°115

Re: BMP-1 and BMP-2 in Russian Army

Interlinked Fri Mar 02, 2018 8:13 am

I know, I just want to make sure that you know as well.

GarryB

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Post n°116

Re: BMP-1 and BMP-2 in Russian Army

GarryB Sat Mar 03, 2018 2:45 am

Some photos of KPVB 23x115mm gun that obviously scaled up from KPVT 14.5mm gun. Compare between them, the effective ranges are quite the same (~ 2,000m) while the 23x115 projectiles is more powerfull than 14.5x114mm ones in both AP (steel penetration) and HE (HE filler content).

Does it have information about the armour penetration of the 23x115mm rounds?

I am guessing if its performance is better than the 14.5mm rounds it must have a SLAP round because the 23mm round is a low velocity round mainly used against soft targets like aircraft... it relies on good HE performance for effect rather than penetration.

The 14,5mm round on the other hand is more about muzzle velocity and armour penetration, though its HE performance is much better than 12.7mm ammo it is still not as effective as 20mm cannon rounds.

kopyo-21

kopyo-21: Posts : 203
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Post n°117

Re: BMP-1 and BMP-2 in Russian Army

kopyo-21 Wed Mar 07, 2018 5:10 am

Interlinked wrote:I know, I just want to make sure that you know as well.

Don't worry. I have known that for sure Smile

Hi Garry, I am wrong to say the 23x115mm AP rounds is more powerfull than 14.5x114mm AP rounds. The 23x115 AP rounds can penetrate 10mm steel at 60° (~20mm at 0°) at 100m while 14.5x114mm AP rounds can penetrate 40mm of steel at 0° at 100m or 35mm at 0° at 300m.

franco

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Post n°118

Re: BMP-1 and BMP-2 in Russian Army

franco Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:18 pm

Russia army to get upgraded T-90M Proryv-3, T-80BV tanks in 2018

MOSCOW. March 7 (Interfax-AVN) - The Russian Armed Forces will start receiving the upgraded T-90M Proryv-3 (Breakthrough) and T-80BV tanks this year, according to a document prepared for the Russian president's working trip to the Urals Federal District.

"In 2018 the UVZ (Uralvagonzavod) is planning to start producing and delivering to army the modern modernized tank T-90M Proryv-3, the BMPT tank-support fighting vehicle, the T-80BV tank with improved combat characteristics, and the modernized infantry fighting vehicle BMP-1 with a 30 millimeter combat module," the document stated.

Work has entered final stages to create a promising weapon - the Armata heavy tracked vehicle platform, and the Koalitsiya-SV (Coalition) self-propelled howitzer, the document said.

"The UVZ is facing the task of setting up their serial production. These will be three Armata models, on a heavy universal combat platform, and three models of the Koalitsiya-SV inter-service artillery system. A serious project will be the creation of weapons and equipment for Arctic brigades," the document said.

The UVZ also has invested own money in several other projects: DT-3PM, a two-section light tracked carrier and tractor; BMP-3, an upgraded infantry fighting vehicle with a 57 millimeter combat module; BTR-80, an upgraded armored carrier; and robotic systems, the document said.

Note: had not heard of that project. Perhaps to BMP-2M standard?

d_taddei2

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Post n°119

Re: BMP-1 and BMP-2 in Russian Army

d_taddei2 Fri Mar 09, 2018 3:58 pm

hi wonder if anyone can shed some light on this.

The BMP-1 i believe is still in service with Russia does anyone know how many are in service and they have any upgrades? Also the reason for keeping them service when they have BMP-2 sitting in reserve. Ive heard so many negative points on the gun system of the BMP-1 hence i am surprised its still being used.

also slightly off topic the MT-LB in Russian service does anyone know apart from engineer/command role is any used in APC role and if so what variants?

franco

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Post n°120

Re: BMP-1 and BMP-2 in Russian Army

franco Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:18 pm

d_taddei2 wrote:hi wonder if anyone can shed some light on this.

The BMP-1 i believe is still in service with Russia does anyone know how many are in service and they have any upgrades? Also the reason for keeping them service when they have BMP-2 sitting in reserve. Ive heard so many negative points on the gun system of the BMP-1 hence i am surprised its still being used. Not sure why myself but 3-4 brigades out in the Far East still use them.

also slightly off topic the MT-LB in Russian service does anyone know apart from engineer/command role is any used in APC role and if so what variants? MT-LBM (MG) and MT-LME-6MB (30 mm turret similar to BTR-82AM)

GarryB

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Post n°121

Re: BMP-1 and BMP-2 in Russian Army

GarryB Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:24 pm

As far as I know they often used the MTLB as a troop transport in places where the terrain was bad... ie deep mud or deep snow.

Its lighter weight and wider tracks made it more mobile over soft ground so it was often used instead of BMPs.

d_taddei2

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Post n°122

Re: BMP-1 and BMP-2 in Russian Army

d_taddei2 Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:29 pm

franco wrote:

d_taddei2 wrote:hi wonder if anyone can shed some light on this.

The BMP-1 i believe is still in service with Russia does anyone know how many are in service and they have any upgrades? Also the reason for keeping them service when they have BMP-2 sitting in reserve. Ive heard so many negative points on the gun system of the BMP-1 hence i am surprised its still being used. Not sure why myself but 3-4 brigades out in the Far East still use them.

also slightly off topic the MT-LB in Russian service does anyone know apart from engineer/command role is any used in APC role and if so what variants? MT-LBM (MG) and MT-LME-6MB (30 mm turret similar to BTR-82AM)

thanks are these models both armed with 30mm gun? ive heard various models with ags-17/30, 12.7mm, zu-23-2, GSh-23,GSh 30,
zu23-2+igla, 82mm mortar, 82mm automatic mortar vasilek 2b9 the options seem endless lol

d_taddei2

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Post n°123

Re: BMP-1 and BMP-2 in Russian Army

d_taddei2 Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:30 pm

GarryB wrote:As far as I know they often used the MTLB as a troop transport in places where the terrain was bad... ie deep mud or deep snow.

Its lighter weight and wider tracks made it more mobile over soft ground so it was often used instead of BMPs.

are these just standard models with 7.62mm?

franco

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Post n°124

Re: BMP-1 and BMP-2 in Russian Army

franco Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:34 pm

d_taddei2 wrote:

franco wrote:

d_taddei2 wrote:hi wonder if anyone can shed some light on this.

The BMP-1 i believe is still in service with Russia does anyone know how many are in service and they have any upgrades? Also the reason for keeping them service when they have BMP-2 sitting in reserve. Ive heard so many negative points on the gun system of the BMP-1 hence i am surprised its still being used. Not sure why myself but 3-4 brigades out in the Far East still use them.

also slightly off topic the MT-LB in Russian service does anyone know apart from engineer/command role is any used in APC role and if so what variants? MT-LBM (MG) and MT-LME-6MB (30 mm turret similar to BTR-82AM)

thanks are these models both armed with 30mm gun? ive heard various models with ags-17/30, 12.7mm, zu-23-2, GSh-23,GSh 30,
zu23-2+igla, 82mm mortar, 82mm automatic mortar vasilek 2b9 the options seem endless lol

The 6MB is the 30mm version and not many 2-300.

George1

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Post n°125

Re: BMP-1 and BMP-2 in Russian Army

George1 Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:37 pm

Seems 90th Gds Tank Division(GvTD),TsVO, received 6 BMP-2M
http://tass.ru/ural-news/5025222

MoD release:30 BMP-2Ms to be transf'd to TsVO Motor Rifle units in Orenburg Obl in'18 - probably 21 OGvMSBr https://function.mil.ru/news_page/country/more.htm?id=12163703@egNews

Contract for >540 BMP-2 & BMD-2 upgrade
https://tvzvezda.ru/news/opk/content/201709291245-cp5j.htm

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