Is Tatarstan the new Chechenia?

There is a new report

http://tass.com/politics/959114

https://worldview.stratfor.com/article/tatarstan-last-autonomous-republic-russia


It shows that the tatars (most of them muslims) in Russia are demanding more autonomy ,
and a new wave of nationalism skyrocketing there.  What is shocking in all this..
is that the President of Tatarstand is comparing Putin with Staling.

Imagine that .. Russia will have to decide soon whether renew the autonomy of
Tatarstan or if will reject it.. so in any case is doomed if you do.. or doomed if you dont.
The biggest danger is that if Putin give them an extension of autonomy ,all other republics
will say me too. and could trigger major civil wars in moments that US is already in a
full scale economic war with Russia.  

Muslims are the biggest threat to Russia. it always was that way . and it will be always that way. What is interesting is that Tatarstan never was a nation ? never had independence?
and now their are forces pushing in that direction..   I bet any independence movement there
have to be fueled by the CIA.. imagine that < the US embassy had 1400 employees in Russia ,
that were free to travel any place to promote unrest in Russia. Who though that was a good idea? Is political suicide.. and the idea that there is major disrespect between Tatarstand president and Putin , is unbelievable. No so smart Putin?  how many wants to beat
Russia enemies will do all they can to raise hell in tatarstand against Russia.

The good news is ,that the republic is landlocked.. So if they go independent ,they will be doomed.. because Russia can lock their economy. and divide them even further and split them.
in any case this is very dangerous development happening there.

anyone knows what is really the mood of tatars ,with Russia ? do they  really want to split?

(I was expecting a Western propaganda article... And wasn't disappointed. Didn't click at all.)

Strat- ("Russia's collapse is imminent") -for... Enough said?

I think Tatarstan has benefited from being part from Russia, the region is rich (so grievances should be limited... in reality) and it's indeed landlocked. It's not the 90s anymore... I mean really, if you look at the overall picture, and don't get your info purely from the Western MSM, does it really seem that Russia is somehow getting more unstable, that things are getting worse? Hell no, quite the opposite.

"What is shocking in all this.. is that the President of Tatarstand is comparing Putin with Staling." Really? I call BS on that aswell. It's certainly taken out of context.

Of course, we could have a nuanced discussion about Tatarstan's autonomy, etc., which would be totally valid as a topic, without going into the "evil Putler, Russia is going to collapse" BS.

However, considering what kind of propaganda we all are fed by the the Western media when it comes to topics like these, and of course when it comes to Russia in general actually, it's inevitable going to get people on this forum really defensive, justifiably in this case, IMO.

And that article is from Strafor of all places... So yeah, it's probably not going to happen.

Tatarstan is actually only half Tatar, the other half of the population is Russian, in a republic of 3M people, which is landlocked on all sides in Russia.  Let that sink in for a while.

The head of Tatarstan is looking for more "authority" on his end, because people are rather like that - corrupt to the core when they got power.  And I know there is little support for Tatars from the other Muslim states in Russia (chechnya).  I never once heard the President of Tatarstan call Putin "Stalin" on anything, because it was Putin himself back in 2007 that gave Tatarstan more autonomy for 10 years.  All this is doing is to give the same authority but extending it for another 10 years.  Putin is undecided but chances are they will give it simply because it worked economically.  Chechnya already has the same autonomy as Tatarstan and it has worked out too.

Stratfor is a useless site and cant be considered a think tank when it is mostly fake news.

This is the context of the agreement:

The treaty states, in particular, that Tatarstan, within its powers, carries out international and external economic relations with the territorial and administrative-territorial entities in other countries, takes part in the activities of international organizations’ agencies created especially for these purposes and concludes agreements on international and external economic relations upon agreement with the Russian Foreign Ministry.

How can you even get a "separatism" concept out of that? They just want an extension of this exact context of what I am quoting. Maybe I am missing something, or maybe Vann likes spreading US propaganda, but this has been going on for 10 years and it seems to have worked.

BTW, majority (like 90%) of Tatarstan's economy relies on the federal government of Russia's investments.

franco wrote:Stratfor is a useless site and cant be considered a think tank when it is mostly fake news.

Actually it's ties to the CIA and others give a good view of what those clowns are thinking.  And it's generally not good.

Maybe so, but it is what we call "wishful thinking".  They of course want to have separatism throughout Russia.  But anyone with half a brain knows Tatarstan is the one that wouldn't be the one to separate as it would be disastrous for themselves.  What keeps Tatarstan alive is things like the helicopter industry, etc.  After maiden was a good example to everyone what ends up happening and the Tatars know they would lose half of their population in a short period if they ever decided to separate.

But you and I both know that wont happen.

BTW, Stratfor was the one who said imminent collapse of Russia was impending, and that was over a decade ago. They said the same thing that the sanctions would bring them to their knees. So how accurate was those assumptions?

franco wrote:The Americans have been working towards World domination since WWII ended. A set back and 10 years mean squat. Their vision of breaking Russia up remains as strong as ever. And as we noticed with that article from a Russian living in Russia, they have recruits. That is why they have 1210 employees at their consulate in Moscow. Always searching and recruiting, fostering malcontents and propagating their vision of the world to Russians and ethnic minorities.

Well, their staff has been cut by over 700, so that is fine.

Which article from a Russian are you talking about?  The one in the army thread from the so called professor?

Of course there are attempts and always will be.  But that doesn't mean anything as they have tried for far too long.  Nothing has changed.  In the end, Russia has been able to fight back pretty easily.

If you think that Russia will give up on Tatarstan even though history proven otherwise (Chechnya, twice) then you are fooling yourself Franco.

franco wrote:Not saying the Russians will give up. Saying that the Americans won't.

OK, thats fine. But that doesn't change anything, especially the geographical location of Tatarstan and how split its population is ethnically. It becomes nearly impossible. Now you are right, the US wont give up. But lets be real here, the Russians gained territory over time, not lost while the US is losing its grasp all around. See Syria as an example. Chechnya is another example, and that was during the wild wild 90's of Russia where liberal 5th columnists ran the country - and even they went to war with Chechnya to make sure it stays in their fold.

TATARSTAN

Area : 68,000 km2 (landlocked)
Population: 4 million


Demographics:
Tatars 53%
Russians 40%
Other 7%

Religions:
Muslims 32%
Christians 32%
Other religions 6%
Non-religious and atheists 30%

Notes:
Not all Tatars are Muslims, some Tatars are Christians
Economy of Tatarstan is doing well
Main military production establishments: KAMAZ, Kazan Helicopter Plant and Zelenodolsk Shipyard

So what is your take on this then Armenian?

Unlike Chechnia which is more or less mono-ethnic, Tatarstan is pretty much Russified.

California and Texas are more likely to secede from the USA than Tatarstan from Russia.

Don't forget that Tatarstan is a very wealthy constituent of the Russian Federation. Consider all the defense plants there.
By contrast, Chechnya and the north Caucuses are very underdeveloped. So there is no huge population of unemployed
young males in Tatarstan that can be recruited by Wahabbis for the terrorist jihad.

TheArmenian wrote:TATARSTAN

Area  :       68,000 km2 (landlocked)
Population: 4 million


Demographics:
Tatars 53%
Russians 40%
Other 7%

Religions:
Muslims  32%
Christians 32%
Other religions 6%
Non-religious and atheists 30%

Notes:
Not all Tatars are Muslims, some Tatars are Christians
Economy of Tatarstan is doing well
Main military production establishments: KAMAZ, Kazan Helicopter Plant and Zelenodolsk Shipyard

ALright finally some substance here... im now a little more relaxed. LOL
But if is true that the President of Tatarstan compared Putin with Stalin , this
should be a dead sentenced for him.. to put that Tatar in the kill list.  

What make me uneasy about all this , is that there is a record already in Russia
to have its own chechen like revolution in Tatarstan..  Under Catherine the great times.
this is the golden times of Russia , when they were fighting the Ottoman Empire in eastern Europe.. a dickhead tatar of the name Pugachev  started a major revolution ,that created
an army of 30,000 muslim in the center of Russia and they had the intentions to march to Moscow..  So this is a Napoleon/NAzi like threat but with the enemy starting from the inside
and not from EUrope.  

In other words.. Russia already have a major history records.. a negative
experience with Tatars ,that they waited for Russia army to be busy in a major
war with another nation ,to start a major civil unrest.

So if Russia start a war with Turkey for example.. Erdogan can use the support he
have in Kazan to cause serious problems in Russia. and promote major civil unrest withing
the Tatar community in Russia.

So this is very serious .. Because of the major dangerous times Russia is living.
Russia is at risk of a world war 3 with the Americans at any time , if they manage
to bypass Trump. ok?  So if Russia is at risk of war ,it will need to develop an strategy
,of from where to get resources ,transportation lines ,supply lines if a group of muslim rebel.
and it can't do it efficiently if it doesn't have full control of Kazana and or the full support
and Loyalty of Kazan President. Something Russia don't have.. because the tatars are asking
for its autonomy. and got it.. But now is different times..  When Kazan got autonomy in 2007 Russia was at "peace" with America. they were busy in IRAQ war.. now they not.. Now Americans are busy in trying to find ways to collapse Russia and dismember it.

So this Kazan thing could pose a major threat for Russia if a major war start between US and Russia and Kazan President happens to be in the payroll of the AMericans.. it could sabotage
Russia from the inside. and even help to guide Americans nuclear attacks. on Russia.
in any case this is not good. Any Tatar nationalism needs to be eradicated from Russia.
And Putin investing so much in Sports and Olympics only encourage divisions in Russia. Since Tatars will feel they need representation as Tatars and NOT as Russians.

What i will do if was in Putin shoes ,will be own Kazan through debt. Get control of Kazan resources ,so if they want one day Independence , Russia can play with the card of debt.
well if you want this ,you have to pay for t his companies ,for this roads ,for this investment here and there// and will have to pay many Trillions dollars for all that Russia invested in Kazan
if want independence.   So make no mistake even if Kazan is landlocked.. The Tatar President
can cause a lot of damage to Russia economy if it works for the Americans. any civil unrest he promotes there with the help of US and NATO , it could stir revolutions for autonomy across all
Russia.  So this can't be taken Slightly.

And i posted news of Russian media too.. so is not just American media..

http://tass.com/politics/959114

Tass is Russian Media ^^

Putin needs to reverse tatar nationalism in tatarstan , and take control of the Republic
in full , autonomy pose a threat for Russia ,because every day , Kazan is autonomous
it means a day ,the tatars President will be promoting nationalism and separation from Russia.
If you teach young generations early in school for years ,that Russia is Russia and Tatarstan is not Russia and that they have a right for independence.. this is recipe for disaster for Russia
future..  and the fact that Russia had 1400 CIA employees in Russia ,certified by Putin ,with diplomatic immunity and now have 455 , is very troubling how could Putin allow such Giant operation to promote 5th column in Russia.

Ivan the great did the right thing when he opposed tatars , he never left potential enemies behind threatening his vision of Russia. And removed any of their mosques in Kazan ,including
the one that is major tourism attraction today.

http://english.kazantravels.ru/wp-content/uploads/Kazan-Travels.jpg

Were is link about head of tatarstan calling Putin Stalin? Do you have  a link regarding it? Do you know the context of it?

BTW, I know your an idiot. But can you quote in the tass link where they are calling for separatism? Or where he called Putin Stalin?

Btw, that's the same link you posted earlier.

miketheterrible wrote:Were is link about head of tatarstan calling Putin Stalin? Do you have  a link regarding it? Do you know the context of it?

BTW, I know your an idiot. But can you quote in the tass link where they are calling for separatism? Or where he called Putin Stalin?

Btw, that's the same link you posted earlier.

i don't know where.. National interest says he did..
This is why im asking to see .. what is going on there.
If they are pushing for Autonomy is a form of separation. Because Russia
will not control Kazan. even if on paper is part of Russia , kazan will use
its autonomy to promote nationalism and an indentity that is separated from Russia.

Whenever you promote an identity and nationalism and a different language than Russian
,you promote separation. from people that do not belong from that same group.

Word of advise

Don't trust what some western paper says. National Interest definitely.

I cannot find a link in Russian so I am assuming he never said it or whatever was said, wasn't in the context we may think they are saying.

Western propaganda always makes me laugh... for instance with pussy riot... they claimed pussy riot were OK and they were right to oppose Putin because Putin was like Stalin.

And then they demanded that Putin interfere with the Russian judicial system and pardon Pussy riot.

So they accused him of being Stalin and then demanded he act like Stalin...

GarryB wrote:Western propaganda always makes me laugh... for instance with pussy riot... they claimed pussy riot were OK and they were right to oppose Putin because Putin was like Stalin.

And then they demanded that Putin interfere with the Russian judicial system and pardon Pussy riot.

So they accused him of being Stalin and then demanded he act like Stalin...

In that farce they also insisted on calling these malcontents a punk band even though none of them could play an
instrument or even sing. This is like the routine labeling of corrupt accountant Magnitsky as an anti-corruption
lawyer. NATO propaganda is Orwellian.

TheArmenian wrote:Unlike Chechnia which is more or less mono-ethnic, Tatarstan is pretty much Russified.

California and Texas are more likely to secede from the USA than Tatarstan from Russia.

Hmm well Tatars outside Tatarstan are very much Russified, although they do tend to keep knowledge of their langauge.

Inside - it depends. I think in Kazan they would largely communicate in Russian (although Tatar has made a big comeback over the last 20 years), seeing as its a cosmopolitan city with many ex-Soviet ethnic groups least of all Russians; but in smaller cities with a majority Tatar population or in the countryside the Tatar culture/language will be a lot more dominant, and Tatars would be more conversative/adherant to Islam.

I'm just supposing here based on bits and tids that I've picked, as I've never been there.

But Russified is really the wrong word. Sovietized sure. But Russified no - as throughout the last 500 years the Tatars have kept their culture and language quite successfully, and what's more they have largely avoided mixing and intermarriage with Russian settlers. So even though Tatarstan has a huge Russian population, it's somewhat segregated from the Tatar one; although the two groups certainly have no animosity for one another or anything like that, the Tatars just keep to themselves.

I hear that Putin enjoys a large part of popularity from tatars because of his more conservative belief. Tatars of Crimea are a fan of him.

B-b-b-but the free and independent Western media told me that the freedom loving Crimean Tatars are being oppressed by the Dark Lord Putler?



(I know, in reality most of them support Russia and the "annexation", source: opinion polls, but the percentage is lower than for the Crimean population as a whole. But it's funny... Even with only their votes, Crimea would've still joined Russia. Talk about propaganda...)

Under Ukraine rule they got nothing. They know that with Russian rule, they get language guarantee, religion guarantee and some form of way of life. If Ukraine takes it now, Crimea would become a miniature civil war as Crimean tatars (minority) would be used by terrorist groups and caught in a bad position, while the Russian/Ukrainian population would be out in force fighting the terrorists which in turn, could mean a growing demand for exodus of the Crimean tatars.

So they know were to place their bets for best chance of a rather peaceful life while keeping their traditions.