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    Status of Russian Military Industrial Complex (MIC)

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    sepheronx
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    Russia's Defense Ministry will buy armor for trucks and armored vehicles in Germany

    Post  sepheronx on Thu Apr 22, 2010 1:14 pm

    Vladimir79 wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:

    I heard that it was wrong in saying armored vehicles, but just the development capabilities of light armor for vehicles like Tigr. Based on other Russian members from another forums.

    It to is wrong. What is being done with Germany is a partnership with Kamaz and Daimler to produce new trucks. I also read on military cooperation with France includes land armaments from Panhard. Panhard makes the VBL.


    So far though, no purchases or nothing, just talk.

    Partnership would be good for Kamaz, as it could open itself up to international market within NATO countries a little bit easier, but I don't know.

    Russian Patriot
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    Russian defense industry falls behind rivals - experts

    Post  Russian Patriot on Thu Apr 29, 2010 2:38 am

    Russian defense industry falls behind rivals - experts

    RIA Novosti

    28/04/201012:07

    MOSCOW, April 28 (RIA Novosti) - Russian weapons are falling behind rival products, experts told the Rossiiskaya Gazeta government daily on Wednesday.

    Russian Academy of Science members Vladimir Fortov and Igor Kalyaev said that a reduction in research funds was making it hard for Russian weapons to stay competitive and for the defense industry to produce breakthroughs.

    However, last month Russian President Dmitry Medvedev approved a long-term policy for the development of the national defense industry. He stressed that development and production of modern electronic systems would be a priority for the industry in the next three to four years.

    But while the Russian government has prioritized the modernization of the military-industrial complex, Fortov and Kalyaev believe this is impossible without a sound scientific foundation.

    They also said that the military prefers short-term projects, with very concrete developments based on well-known principles. This approach makes Russian military equipment lag behind its rivals even at the planning stage, they said.

    Without the ability to innovate, the Russian defense sector will sooner or later run into a brick wall, the experts claim.

    http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/russia/2010/russia-100428-rianovosti05.htm


    Last edited by Russian Patriot on Wed Jul 14, 2010 11:30 pm; edited 1 time in total

    Viktor
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    Re: Status of Russian Military Industrial Complex (MIC)

    Post  Viktor on Thu Apr 29, 2010 3:13 am

    Falling behind only in comparison with whole world. On a 1 to 1 lvl few countries can match its level.

    Vladimir79
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    Breakdown of MIC threatens Exports

    Post  Vladimir79 on Sun May 09, 2010 12:48 am

    Last Warning to Defence
    Systemic crisis facing the defense industry of breakdown in the supply of military equipment to the Russian army and the lack of export contracts
    2010-04-30

    Greece has suspended a contract with Russia for the supply to Athens of 420 infantry combat vehicles BMP-3. Transactions, take more than two years and stopped domestic defense enterprises of almost 1.5 billion dollars, hung in suspense. The reason for this is not well-known financial difficulties of one of the EU Member States (in Russian arms in the budget the money was deferred), Carelessly thrown at the press conference the critical phrase in the address of the poor state of machines said Deputy Minister of Defence - Chief of Armaments of the Armed Forces of Russia, Army General Vladimir Popovkin. He then said: "We really need to take care of soldiers. At the BMP now all go upstairs, because in this "coffin" Nobody wants to go. It is necessary to make another vehicle. "

    Greek journalists immediately published a statement in their newspapers. And the opposition is a scandal: how to buy worthless military hardware, from which refuse even its creators?

    Vladimir Popovkin expressed claims not only to the BMP, but also to the T-90 tank, which was bought by New Delhi, to combat support vehicle BMPT, which Rosoboronexport last week demonstrated at the international arms exhibition in Kuala Lumpur and also promotes the export of other military equipment, from which for whatever reasons, refused by the army, but that our country is actively promoting its export.

    Exporters of arms terribly offended. Maul, General pulled for us some very lucrative contracts. But, in our opinion, the indignant murmur is not directed at that address. Saying more, such statements from domestic warlords which ventured by Vladimir Popovkin have every right to exist. Moreover, the truth about the state of the Russian military-industrial complex, about the processes that take place there, a systemic crisis in it and the failure of its individual leaders, including the government's military-industrial commission to correct the situation, not a secret. This was mentioned more than once or twice. On many different levels. Including the president.

    This truth is very important. So it helps the public and the powers to identify problem areas and take some drastic measures to correct them. Focus our efforts on opening bottlenecks. In the end, to ensure the army and navy of the modern military equipment and weapons that allow them confidence to perform the task of protecting national interests.

    Without an honest and frank conversation with the citizens of Russia, impartial and concerned criticism of the shortcomings that make it practically impossible. Another thing is that, according to the known proverb, "no matter how many say" paste "- a sweet in the mouth will not be" - all of these conversations and spells, unfortunately, lead to nowhere. Neither the Kremlin nor the government nor the legislative and executive authorities of the country and regions, take no serious measures to influence the lazy managers. Despite the ongoing story of the new government's weapons program, the federal programs of technological upgrading of defense enterprises, in reality, except for certain aircraft and air defense firms, nothing fundamental is happening. They say it is going, when will it be. But will it be bought?

    Even today, foreign consumers of our weapons sent 33 complaints for every hundred Russian export machinery. And the scandal, "the Algerian" "MiGami", as it turned out, the domestic defense industry has not learned anything.


    Yes, you can mute the criticism of defense companies that supply its products to its own army and for export to, as requested by traders of weapons, not to harm the way the military-technical cooperation with foreign countries for hard currency proceeds into the state budget and the producers of tanks. But is the low quality of most vehicles, the discrepancy of the high standards which makes the modern battle, not a counter-advertising to the product itself? Does anyone think that, if silenced domestic generals, and with them the Moscow media, military analysts and experts, it will staff serious buyers with any military prefabricated Soviet? Naive representation designed to uneducated laymen.

    From this situation there are only two ways out. Being in the role of underdogs with lost export orders, and at the same time, saving orders for its own army, becoming a loser and accept it or dramatically improve the quality and effectiveness of weapons produced, to lower its price, non-production costs that are factored into every product, to strive to be at the forefront of technical and technological progress, to get rid of dependency and senseless expectations of those who will come and stifle the mother of invention. To paraphrase an old saying, we recall that the salvation of the defense in the hands of the defense itself. And no one else.

    A new battle machine we do really need. And then the sniper rifles, our army is forced to buy from the British and the Finns, the amphibious assault ship - the French, they have the same - night sights for tank shells, drones from the Israelis, lightweight and durable armor - the Germans. There is already talk, too, that APCs become buy from the French. The international division of labor in the defense industry - a good thing. She brings to our country capabilities to meet the recent "potential adversaries", but soon it may happen that nuclear submarines and strategic missiles we are not able to make themselves. And its something we will not sell to anyone. And about national security, Russia will be remembered as the long-forgotten past.

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    Re: Status of Russian Military Industrial Complex (MIC)

    Post  GarryB on Sun May 09, 2010 9:26 am

    So the Russians are now undermining their own defence industry.

    The design of the BMP-3 is largely the fault of the Russian military demanding amphibious capability making it impossible to make with western like protection levels.

    The Bradley is the same weight as the T-34 medium tank... it can still be defeated by RPGs.

    And of course the other example given Algeria choosing Sukhois over MIGs is a Joke... who would take Mig-29s when they can get Flankers for the same price... it really doesn't matter about the build quality of the Mig.

    I am sure when the Russian MIC collapses when customers cancel orders because of this idiot that the Chinese will make good weapons for the Russian military. No

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    Thales signed an agreement for the supply of communications equipment for Russian armored vehicles

    Post  Vladimir79 on Wed Jun 16, 2010 6:48 am

    Thales signed an agreement for the supply of communications equipment for Russian armored vehicles

    TSAMTO, June 15. "Rosoboronexport" at "Eurosatory 2010 signed a contract with Thales' agreement providing for the supply of communications equipment to be installed on the Russian armored vehicles, told news agency RIA Novosti, the head of the Russian delegation at the exhibition, Deputy Director General of Rosoboronexport Igor Sevastyanov .

    According to him, sets of communications will be integrated on the Russian MBT T-90 and BMP-3.

    Earlier, Rosoboronexport, and Thales Group in the framework of the exhibition Eurosatory 2010 signed a contract for the transfer of Russian technology for the production of thermal imaging cameras, which are part of the sights to be installed on various types of armored vehicles.

    The cost of the contracts are not reported.

    http://www.armstrade.org/includes/periodics/news/2010/0615/14104875/detail.shtml

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    Re: Status of Russian Military Industrial Complex (MIC)

    Post  GarryB on Thu Jun 17, 2010 2:10 am

    Interesting.

    I guess this means another licence production deal with a radio/communications making Russian company setting up licence production of these Thales systems in Russia.

    Good for Thales, with a "Russian" factory making their gear at reduced manufacturing costs it means reduced price or increased profit. It also means that new markets they had no previous access to could now be opened up. For example countries that traditionally buy from Russia might now buy this French product with Thales getting a cut of the sale.
    For Russia, it obviously means better coms equipment... better bandwidth!!!

    Vladimir79
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    Re: Status of Russian Military Industrial Complex (MIC)

    Post  Vladimir79 on Thu Jun 17, 2010 4:51 am

    Interesting is the fact the French are taking over the MIC.

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    Re: Status of Russian Military Industrial Complex (MIC)

    Post  GarryB on Thu Jun 17, 2010 8:22 am

    No more than India is.

    If you were going to stop production of certain bits of equipment and replace it with French made equipment then yes you will have a French MIC.
    As mentioned the French designed Catherine and the ESSM thermal sights are both going to be fitted to new Russian tanks. Does that mean all French thermal sights will replace all Russian thermal sights?
    No.

    A good example I posted a while back on another thread where the thermal scopes the VDV were issued with for trials were returned with requests.
    The translation wasn't easy for me to understand what the guy wanted, but I think he was asking for the thermal sight to have a ballistic computer added and a laser range finder so that you can point the scope at a target with the type of weapon it is fitted to entered into the scope so it knows what ballistics data to use. Put the illuminated box around the target and press a pressure pad and the laser will flash and determine range in a short pulse. The ballistics computer will use the range to the target with the known trajectory of the round in that weapon (remember 5.45mm round will have different trajectories from the AKS-74U and the RPK-74 and everything in between because of the different barrel lengths) and it will generate an aiming point for the user. Place the aim point on the target and fire and you should be getting first round hits.

    One of the things that makes the AK-74 more accurate is the high velocity flat shooting bullet means there is less of a problem if you make a mistake in guessing the range. With the 7.62 x 39mm bullet after about 300m it really starts to drop rapidly, so range estimate is vital to hitting targets at longer ranges... the problem is that estimating range is very hard and different light conditions, different field conditions, different states of mind can all effect how far it seems to the target.
    Such a scope will make the 7.62 x 39mm round more viable as it is less effected by the wind than a lighter bullet and retains energy better than a lighter round.

    It has been mentioned that the Italian military vehicles and the French FELIN kits are only being tested and it will be local producers that will get first shot to make Russian gear. If they can't manage it then a joint venture or licence production of foreign stuff is likely, but in any case it will be made in Russia by Russians. Even the An-70s and An-124s.

    I think it is great that the Russian leadership is being so sensible and practical, and in the short and long term it will be good for the Russian MIC.

    My opinion only of course... Smile

    Vladimir79
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    Re: Status of Russian Military Industrial Complex (MIC)

    Post  Vladimir79 on Thu Jun 17, 2010 8:26 pm

    GarryB wrote:No more than India is.

    You must mean no more than Russia is taking over Indian MIC, because we dominate it. We sell 3 times more equipment to India than India buys from Indian suppliers.


    If you were going to stop production of certain bits of equipment and replace it with French made equipment then yes you will have a French MIC.

    That is exactly what is happening. The old thermals and radios will cease production on T-90, BTR-82 and BMP-3, soon to be French. Landing ships will be French. Presidential jets will be French. Lada cars will be made with French components. Helicopters running on French engines. Airliners running on French engines and avionics. They are so deep into the system you do not realise.

    As mentioned the French designed Catherine and the ESSM thermal sights are both going to be fitted to new Russian tanks. Does that mean all French thermal sights will replace all Russian thermal sights?
    No.

    For the price of one Catherine FC, you can equip over 2 VDV companies with those old 2nd gen scopes. Did you realise Mi-28N uses French thermals, or that we license produce Damocles targeting pods with French thermals? We license produce Catherine XP, which is the lighter cousin of FC, used for light vehicles. They already dominate the industry. We will soon be buying JIM MR/LRs for infantry from Sagem for $300 million.

    A good example I posted a while back on another thread where the thermal scopes the VDV were issued with for trials were returned with requests.

    That is the only example and it is not even seeing fruition.

    The translation wasn't easy for me to understand what the guy wanted, but I think he was asking for the thermal sight to have a ballistic computer added and a laser range finder so that you can point the scope at a target with the type of weapon it is fitted to entered into the scope so it knows what ballistics data to use. Put the illuminated box around the target and press a pressure pad and the laser will flash and determine range in a short pulse. The ballistics computer will use the range to the target with the known trajectory of the round in that weapon (remember 5.45mm round will have different trajectories from the AKS-74U and the RPK-74 and everything in between because of the different barrel lengths) and it will generate an aiming point for the user. Place the aim point on the target and fire and you should be getting first round hits.

    It must be talking about sniper scopes, they are the only ones that come with ballistic computers.

    One of the things that makes the AK-74 more accurate is the high velocity flat shooting bullet means there is less of a problem if you make a mistake in guessing the range. With the 7.62 x 39mm bullet after about 300m it really starts to drop rapidly, so range estimate is vital to hitting targets at longer ranges... the problem is that estimating range is very hard and different light conditions, different field conditions, different states of mind can all effect how far it seems to the target.
    Such a scope will make the 7.62 x 39mm round more viable as it is less effected by the wind than a lighter bullet and retains energy better than a lighter round.

    There is no point putting a high quality scope for a 7.62 x39mm bullet. It is the most inaccurate bullet still in wide circulation today. It is a spray and pray round, excellent for close combat penetration, but not a skill weapon.

    It has been mentioned that the Italian military vehicles and the French FELIN kits are only being tested and it will be local producers that will get first shot to make Russian gear. If they can't manage it then a joint venture or licence production of foreign stuff is likely, but in any case it will be made in Russia by Russians. Even the An-70s and An-124s.

    It is pretty obvious Russian producers will not be able to make anything like FELIN with our current deficit in electronics and digital communications. It may be possible to make an IVECO like vehicle, but we still have a deficit in engine technology. Our reliance on Antonova is far worse than you realise. It is not just An-124 and An-70s we have to buy a license for, but An-148 and An-140. And yes, the An-148 is being drafted to compete with the MTA. link So now we have to rely on Ukraine for our airlift and commercial requirements sending money and jobs out of the country to a nation we hated less than a year ago. France isn't out of that picture either, they will provide engines and avionics which are the major costs of the plane.

    I think it is great that the Russian leadership is being so sensible and practical, and in the short and long term it will be good for the Russian MIC.

    I am not going to complain about France as they have proven sanction proof when it comes to supplying Russian companies; their electronics and production methods are superior to ours. We need their technology. It is just embarrassing that we are going to be a client state and dependent on France and not able to out-compete Ukrainian designs.

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    Re: Status of Russian Military Industrial Complex (MIC)

    Post  GarryB on Fri Jun 18, 2010 9:48 am

    With all these joint ventures it seems the Russian MIC is training the Indian MIC.

    An example is the MRCA competition. 126 planes, but only 16 built by the winning aircraft maker. The other 110 made in India.

    India currently has better Russian stuff than the Russian Armed forces have in several areas.

    I don't think the Russian AF even had the R-77 in service till recently because they haven't had enough aircraft in service that could actually use it.

    The problem has been that the Russian armed forces haven't been spending money on new stuff so the people making new stuff for them have not been earning enough money to keep up to date. Whether it is foreign or local, as long as it is made in Russia should inject money into the Russian MIC... the current T-90s and BMP-3s might be getting French thermal imagers and the BMP-3 might be getting an upgrade paid in part by South Korea but the people making those upgraded thermal sights and upgraded BMP-3s will be Russians. Those workers will be Russians. The money they make will be put to new designs that are Russian. The first might be variations on the existing foreign equipment, or they might be totally new designs that have no western equivelent (ie T-95).

    BTW I read this from another site:

    Popovkin also indicated leading military producers are actively developing a new class of wheeled armored vehicles. He said in the Russian Army’s modernization there are plans to establish light, medium, and heavy brigades. Light brigades will have wheeled, medium wheeled and tracked, and heavy only tracked vehicles.

    This suggests to me that in the heavy brigades their might be T-95s, medium brigades the T-90 Burlak, and light brigades a Sprut modified into a wheeled version.

    They might have French comms and thermals but they will be more effective because of that.

    That is exactly what is happening. The old thermals and radios will cease production on T-90, BTR-82 and BMP-3, soon to be French.

    And the result will be a jump in the performance of all three vehicles. There is no reason why the Russian MIC with its new tooling to make state of the art French machinery cannot then develop improvements, both evolutionary and revolutionary... when the British sold the Soviet Union the Nene and Derwent jet engines they were a huge step up, but within a few years they improved them further and then produced new models of their own that were much better than what they would have had if they had refused the sale. And that was without a licence to produce so they had to reverse engineer the engines themselves.

    Landing ships will be French.

    The four being sought will probably be the only landing ships Russia ever needs till they need replacement and by then the Russian ship building industry will have ideas and plans of its own.

    They are so deep into the system you do not realise.

    They are in there, but they have no control and are working with the Russian MIC rather than competing against it. Like Russian input in India... it is a good thing for both parties.

    For the price of one Catherine FC, you can equip over 2 VDV companies with those old 2nd gen scopes.

    Yup. The cost of state of the art is high. The point is that if you want to reduce the size of the forces you need to increase its firepower and effectiveness.

    Having half the number of tanks only makes sense when they can defeat a much larger force because they are better.

    Did you realise Mi-28N uses French thermals, or that we license produce Damocles targeting pods with French thermals?

    I have heard of a lot of aircraft pods with different purposes... Sapsan, Solluks, Platan. Did you know that a solution to the wet film recon problem wasn't solved in the Royal Air Force till they got Lantirn III pods that allow recon and digital transmission of data directly back to base... if the Damocles can do that or can be modified to do that then it is well worth looking into. Adding such a pod makes an otherwise modest aircraft much more capable.
    Fitting a Damocles pod to a medium flying Tu-22M3 with 24 tons of laser and sat guided bombs would be very useful support over Chechnia or Afghanistan with only minor changes to the aircraft needed.
    Adding such a pod makes an Su-25SM into almost an Su-25TM and you only need a few pods per unit that can be shared around... much cheaper and to update it you just develop a new pod... the aircraft can remain relatively simple and cheap.

    That is the only example and it is not even seeing fruition.

    What do you mean? They developed a scope and gave it to the VDV for testing. The VDV tested it and gave feedback... so one would expect a modification and further testing till the VDV is happy... then the VDV get a new scope that meets their needs.

    It must be talking about sniper scopes, they are the only ones that come with ballistic computers.

    It was my interpretation of what the commander said... he said:

    Shamanov said troop testing of the ‘Shakhin’ thermal sight for infantry weapons is complete. He said:

    “There has to be one approach for weapons—they have to be all-weather. Not long ago the thermal sight ‘Shakhin’ went through troop testing. After the testing we returned it to the designers for reworking. We’ve given the task that our weapons work according to the aviation principle—turn your head and firing systems turn after it.”

    NOw unless he wants the gunsight to autotarget what I think he mean is for the sight to determine where to shoot... like the CCIP (computer calculated impact point) for bombers that shows the pilot where the bombs will hit if he drops the bombs now. The laser range finder and ballistic computers... which are already available on scopes now are not new, there are several Russian Scope makers that could do it. On a thermal scope the extra cost of laser range finder and computer will not be big... ie a $20,000 thermal imager of which $3,000 was for the LRF and BC etc.

    There is no point putting a high quality scope for a 7.62 x39mm bullet. It is the most inaccurate bullet still in wide circulation today. It is a spray and pray round, excellent for close combat penetration, but not a skill weapon.

    There is no such thing as an inherently inaccurate round. The most accurate cartridge for bench rest shooting in the world today over 300m is based on the 7.62 x 39mm round and is called the 6mm PPC. With quality ammo and a quality rifle and most importantly a scope that will calculate range accurately you could double or even triple the effective range of most small arms ammo in my opinion.

    So now we have to rely on Ukraine for our airlift and commercial requirements sending money and jobs out of the country to a nation we hated less than a year ago.

    First of all it seemed they hated you more than you hated them.
    Second the An-124s and An-70s for the Russian AF will be made in Russian plants by Russian workers.

    It may be possible to make an IVECO like vehicle, but we still have a deficit in engine technology.

    From what I have read the Russian vehicles proved to be as good or better than the foreign vehicles tested. There is talk of importing German armour for light vehicles, but then the Italians import German armour for their vehicles.

    ie:

    Popovkin said:

    “Issue of acquiring light armor and technology for its fabrication still isn’t decided. Domestic scientific-research institutes still haven’t answered us about whether they’re ready and capable of making such armor. If they make it, then we’ll use it, if they don’t, we’ll search for ways of getting Western technology for its subsequent production in Russia.”

    It is not just An-124 and An-70s we have to buy a license for, but An-148 and An-140. And yes, the An-148 is being drafted to compete with the MTA.

    The MTA is a joint venture with India isn't it? It is also on the drawing board AFAIK, so clearly what they want is a good look at the An-148 and the An-140 so I would expect such a look will lead to changes to the MTA design so you end up with a plane better than An-148 or 140.

    It is just embarrassing that we are going to be a client state and dependent on France and not able to out-compete Ukrainian designs.

    At the moment there is no Russian plane better than the An-124 and it would be really dumb to try to make one while the An-124 meets requirements. A total waste of money for the sake of wounded pride.

    The plane they are going to be building is like the Il-76 in that it will be an improved aircraft modified to greatly improve performance and reduce operating costs.

    The Russian MIC has been starved and needs to recover... just because it is using outside help to recover faster does not mean it will suddenly become dependant invalid. All it means is that the recovery period is speeded up.
    If the assistance from outside is very good then their might be an ongoing relationship formed to continue after the MIC has recovered but this in no way will mean the Russian MIC will move to France or the Ukraine or Germany.

    And for the guys on the front line it means new stuff faster.

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    Re: Status of Russian Military Industrial Complex (MIC)

    Post  Vladimir79 on Tue Jul 06, 2010 1:21 am

    Results of arms in Zhukovsky : Russia becoming dependent on foreign arms merchants


    Forum "Technology in Mechanical Engineering -2010 " in the suburban town of Zhukovsky , which ended the previous day, showed that Russia can not do without imports of foreign weapons . In Russia on innovative technologies too few businesses that would yield significant results.

    Purchases of foreign weapons at this time are inevitable , says CEO of a corporation Rostekhnologii Chemezov . According to him , of all the Russian machine-building enterprises , only 10 % engaged in the development or introduction of technological innovations . The share of innovative products is only 5.5 % , said Chemezov.

    In this regard, Russia held at the exhibition several negotiations with foreign representatives of the industry. In particular , the Ministry of Defense is going to buy the French company Sagem Defense Securite ( group of companies SAFRAN) fire control system " Sigma -30 " to modernize the Russian artillery and missile systems with multiple rocket launchers ( MRL ) . The system is already equipped with MLRS Germany and Italy and now with her help improve combat vehicles Norway and Sweden , writes "Time of news ".

    This is not the only possible order from France. Along with the "Sigma -30 ", MOD is in talks about the newest equipment for soldiers FELIN. If the contract is signed , the limited number of these special forces will GRU .

    In Zhukovsky was also the first time demonstrated armored "Tiger ", developed by military-industrial companies . Meanwhile, the Defense Ministry plans to buy the imported analog " Wolf "- LMV Italian company Iveco.

    In general, the expert at the Center for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies , Konstantin Makiyenko noted that the forum is part of the general trend of imports of weapons and defense technologies to the Russian power structures .

    However , it is worth noting that the Russian defense industry has a definite chance to contracts with the Defense Ministry. In particular, First Deputy Defense Minister Vladimir Popovkin said that the agency will choose the Russian developer drones , which will begin shipping reconnaissance aircraft or target designators for the Russian army . After the Israeli drones are no longer planned to buy drones abroad .

    In addition, it is likely that the defense establishment may abandon plans for the purchase of steel in Germany , notes the publication of " Time of news " . NII were demonstrated at the exhibition their materials and protective structure for local and individual reservations . The employees have created the lightest helmets for soldiers who have no analogues in the world . This helmet can withstand a shot with five-meter distance from the Makarov pistol .

    Russia hands over positions in the tank manufacturing

    At the same time , despite some new items that were presented in Zhukovsky , experts note that Russia began to take positions in the tank manufacturing world . The army needed new tanks , but Russia is trying to modernize old, which leads only to a glut old samples.

    Scientific and technological advance on the Soviet-era weaponry and protection of tanks was exhausted. Modernization, in essence, acted as scheduled maintenance without any increase in military characteristics of armored vehicles .

    While the Army will be satisfied with the T - 90, but it does not meet the latest requirements of military affairs . The complex optical -electronic protection " blind " , which is installed on this model, the tank , not in a position to influence the launch of the third generation .

    In addition, the tank is practically not protected from above . For overseas created precision guided cluster bomblets that are delivered to aircraft, missiles and artillery , and can effectively hit the armored top . In this case the number of activities to modernize the T -90 , his defense on the part of the roof is not included .

    Russia is not going to steal foreign technology , Putin stressed

    Need to update and maintain Army forces be ready to apply to foreign technologies . Speaking at the opening of the Salon in Zhukovsky, Prime Minister Vladimir Putin stressed that Russia is ready to cooperate with foreign partners .

    According to him, modern technology - a product that the Russian partners want to sell , and Russia is ready to buy for good money . " " If you do not want to sell - is not necessary, but we say that we need this product , we 'll take it , and you want to sell it , and how expensive - is the subject of negotiations " , - said the prime minister.

    He stressed that Russia would not steal technology and innovation : " There is no need to submit the matter in such a way that in Russia, someone is going to act like one of the famous works of art - to carry off the boss's cuisine a tasty piece of technology , and then under the blanket slowly , trying not to munch , to eat it , and somewhere there to smuggle .

    Negotiations with foreign partners initially expected to pay much attention . The forum brought together the previously separate specialized exhibitions : " Intermash " , International Salon of weapons and military equipment " IDELF " , " Aerospace "and " Unmanned multipurpose complex .

    The forum was attended by companies from 42 countries , including the Glock ( Austria ), AVL LIST Gmbh ( Austria ), FN HERSTAL ( Belgium ), Rohde & Schwarz and MTU ( Germany ), Hindustan Aeronautics Limited ( India ), Finmeccanica and Pirelli ( Italy) , North Industrial Corporation NORINCO ( China ), Bell Labs ( USA ), EADS, Thales, SAGEM ( Group SAFRAN), Alcatel-Lucent ( France).

    "It is planned that the Forum has become an international discussion platform for the heads of federal executive authorities, Russian public organizations and business structures , as well as representatives of the military- political leadership and business circles of foreign states " , - the press service of the government.

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    Re: Status of Russian Military Industrial Complex (MIC)

    Post  Vladimir79 on Tue Jul 06, 2010 1:41 am

    Samples of Russian arms at Zhukovsky

    http://lenta.ru/photo/2010/07/05/salon/

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    Re: Status of Russian Military Industrial Complex (MIC)

    Post  GarryB on Tue Jul 06, 2010 6:12 am

    First of all the things like Sigma 30 and the stuff from FELIN, these aren't weapon systems, they are components.
    The multiple rocket launchers in Russia already have navigation and aiming systems, but if the SIGMA-30 can do it better then why not buy it and integrate it into your systems to make the weapon system as a whole better?
    The current makers of such systems in Russia can licence produce the systems and learn about what is state of the art today. No doubt in 2-3 years they will bring out an improved version that suits Russian needs even better, or perhaps a whole new system based on the funding they earn from the licence production of the French system.

    There are probably a huge number of areas that the Russian MIC needs work, like making computer chips and electronics, and of course in computer network datalinks ensuring high bandwidth communications etc etc.
    Their battle management systems are not likely to be the best in the world due to lack of experience in making them.
    The point is that you buy what you need and incorporate it into Russian weapon systems to improve them and then you continue from there.

    I thought the criticism of the T-90 and its upgrades was amusing considering the funding for the replacement has been cut. With an external turret mounted gun the T-95 should have been the worlds best protected from above tank in the world in the sense that from above there is only a very narrow area of vulnerability and the crew would generally be relatively safe even if the centre or (hot from the engine) rear were hit by top attack weapons.

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    Re: Status of Russian Military Industrial Complex (MIC)

    Post  Vladimir79 on Tue Jul 06, 2010 7:23 am

    GarryB wrote:First of all the things like Sigma 30 and the stuff from FELIN, these aren't weapon systems, they are components.

    Sigma is an FCS system for artillery, FELIN is an infantry combat system. MoD is buying them to equip GRU Spetsnaz. The buy could number over 10,000 once it is accepted after trials. Sigma-30 will be going on all Smerch MLRS upgrades which could go as high as 300.

    The multiple rocket launchers in Russia already have navigation and aiming systems, but if the SIGMA-30 can do it better then why not buy it and integrate it into your systems to make the weapon system as a whole better?
    The current makers of such systems in Russia can licence produce the systems and learn about what is state of the art today. No doubt in 2-3 years they will bring out an improved version that suits Russian needs even better, or perhaps a whole new system based on the funding they earn from the licence production of the French system.

    If it is better we should buy it, the concern is we will become India who is reliant on imports for most of their equipment.

    There are probably a huge number of areas that the Russian MIC needs work, like making computer chips and electronics, and of course in computer network datalinks ensuring high bandwidth communications etc etc.
    Their battle management systems are not likely to be the best in the world due to lack of experience in making them.
    The point is that you buy what you need and incorporate it into Russian weapon systems to improve them and then you continue from there.

    Considering modern warfare is in the computer age, electronics are the heart of the game. They are also the most expensive where we start to lose serious money. Thales deals almost exclusively in electronics and they are larger than the largest Russian defence company by several times. Without getting into the electronics game, we have no future in arms.


    I thought the criticism of the T-90 and its upgrades was amusing considering the funding for the replacement has been cut. With an external turret mounted gun the T-95 should have been the worlds best protected from above tank in the world in the sense that from above there is only a very narrow area of vulnerability and the crew would generally be relatively safe even if the centre or (hot from the engine) rear were hit by top attack weapons.

    The turret of the tank is the most protected part, it is easy to armour the small surface it contains. It is more costly to heavily armour the hull.

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    Re: Status of Russian Military Industrial Complex (MIC)

    Post  GarryB on Tue Jul 06, 2010 7:58 am

    What I was trying to say was that the claim that Russia is buying foreign weapons is actually false because what they are actually doing is incorporating foreign components and systems into their own weapons systems.

    If it is better we should buy it, the concern is we will become India who is reliant on imports for most of their equipment.

    I totally agree, but think that there is no chance of Russia becoming dependant on external sources of technology.

    The basic facts are that Russia and Soviet technology in the military sphere was always competitive and what changed all that was the last 20 years of inactivity.
    Once Russian companies start working again and money starts flowing then they will catch up, whether they start working on Russian designs or on licence production of foreign designs.
    The problem has been that there was no money being spent in the MIC on much at all so they could read journals on foreign developments but they were very limited in what they could actually do themselves. Money changes that.
    I just hope they get the hang of the fact that if they diversify they will become stronger.
    For example a company that makes avionics for aircraft like LCD screens can earn extra money by making consumer goods that use the same technology.
    A company that only sells to the military has narrow foundations.

    Regarding the cost of electronics, again I think you are correct, but in the last 20 years investment and spending in Russia on such things has not made local production viable. Now with a new technology drive and a technology centre being developed hopefully this will change for the better.
    Spending billions of roubles in 1998 to create state of the art computer chips in Russia by the Russian government with no guaranteed market would have been a huge gamble. Today even just making controller chips would be useful to Russian makers if you could make them cheaper than overseas and to a quality level that is acceptable. Multi core CPUs don't need to be particularly fast, but I remember reading a Russian scientific centre had developed a new design for computer architecture that allowed CPUs be replaced with much much cheaper chip types that vastly improved performance... it is innovation like this where Russia could really push technology forward itself.

    The turret of the tank is the most protected part, it is easy to armour the small surface it contains. It is more costly to heavily armour the hull.

    Except that the T-95 uses an external gun and would have little armour because a penetration of the turret will not effect the crew. I might disable the gun but the turret will be a much smaller target, shooting at the tracks or engine will disable a tank too.
    The crew all sit under the frontal hull armour where the heaviest armour on the tank is normally located. The thickening of the hull roof armour will not increase the weight nearly as much as the armour contained in a conventional turret, which is not present in this tank because it has no conventional turret. The space in the turret ring will have the auto loader and ammo supply but it will likely have blow out roof compartments so if it gets hit there will be an armoured bulkhead protecting the crew from the ammo fire.
    This is ignoring any active defence systems the tank might have to protect itself from top attack munitions like Javelin etc. EO jammers, DIRCMs, radar jammers for use against submunitions using MMW radar guidance, the list is quite long of the things the Russian tank designers might have come up with to protect the tank. But this is all speculation so we can not answer that question either way.
    The fact is that the M1A2 Abrams is no better protected from Javelin and top attack submunitions than in service T-90s. Now the Russian Armed forces don't have Javelin in service, but they have had MMW top attack submunitions in SMERCH units since about 1987 and from about 1995 they had the updated munition with an IR sensor added so that it could ensure the large lump of metal the MMW radar detected has an engine but is not already burning so that it didn't hit rocks and it didn't keep hitting targets that were already burning.

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    Re: Status of Russian Military Industrial Complex (MIC)

    Post  Vladimir79 on Tue Jul 06, 2010 8:20 am

    The basic facts are that Russia and Soviet technology in the military sphere was always competitive and what changed all that was the last 20 years of inactivity.
    Once Russian companies start working again and money starts flowing then they will catch up, whether they start working on Russian designs or on licence production of foreign designs.
    The problem has been that there was no money being spent in the MIC on much at all so they could read journals on foreign developments but they were very limited in what they could actually do themselves. Money changes that.

    Basic fact is we are no longer the CCCP and we never will be again. We will never spend 30% of GDP on the military again. We will not have competitive design bureaus again. We will never have the labour pool we had again. All we can do is try to retain core competencies and develop items that can compete on the global market. We face many hurdles in this salvage process and requires much reform not only in the industry, but in society in general. There is still a brain drain going on in Russia, until that is stopped, we are screwed. Throwing money at a system that is broken and corrupt to the core is like flushing your money down the toilet, which is the hidden reason why we don't do it.

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    Re: Status of Russian Military Industrial Complex (MIC)

    Post  GarryB on Tue Jul 06, 2010 8:53 am

    But you don't have to be the CCCP again.
    Its focus on secrecy at all levels limited technological development.
    Its focus on technology purely for military use also limited the markets for technology based companies.
    There is plenty of scope for Russia to be even better than the Soviet Union was.
    Don't focus on the brain drain, getting things right in Russia, increasing the living standard of everyone, improving mortality rates... actually getting to the problem of an ageing population is the way forward.
    Dealing with health and education issues, and especially dealing with corruption issues and criminality and drug abuse are all steps Russia needs to take (and steps many other countries have to take).

    The point is you are less judgemental than the west and will deal with countries the west wont deal with.
    Few countries like to deal with the preachy west so when you offer a real stable alternative that benefits locals as well as yourself I can see a lot of success in Russia's future. Just don't turn into the US2.

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    Re: Status of Russian Military Industrial Complex (MIC)

    Post  Vladimir79 on Tue Jul 06, 2010 10:24 am

    I wouldn't say such things if I had not seen it first hand. Once you have been inside it is quite obvious.

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    Re: Status of Russian Military Industrial Complex (MIC)

    Post  GarryB on Wed Jul 07, 2010 1:13 am

    You can find solutions to every problem but that doesn't mean every problem can be solved.
    No country in the world has no problems.
    At the moment some of Russias problems are clear and solutions are certain.

    Look at the US and UK.

    Both countries like to tell Russia and other countries how to operate and what to do, yet they both have serious problems of their own.

    The problem is that everyone thinks they have the solution and the other guy is wrong.

    Some offer solutions for good reasons and others for bad reasons.

    I am sure if you listened to everything the west said you would enjoy the west owning everything of value in Russia and stripping your country like they stripped and are stripping Africa, Asia and Central and South America. Talk to someone from Nigeria about oil spills and they will tell you all about the contamination and damage. You will hear about people who have lost their livelyhood that are working to clear up the mess. Tune in to CNN right now and you will see those hard working americans that have lost their livelyhoods sitting at home doing nothing or lining up at BP for money instead of doing anything about the mess that has been created.

    You need to create a do it yourself, help yourself culture, that will be of more value than having a foundry that can make 22nm computer chips.

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    Re: Status of Russian Military Industrial Complex (MIC)

    Post  Vladimir79 on Wed Jul 07, 2010 2:08 am

    Look at any Western defence company and compare it to a state owned Russian JSC.

    High vs low wages
    Qualified labour pool vs unqualified
    Worker age under 40 vs 58+
    Shareholder accountability vs junk stock
    Latest equipment vs rusting Soviet or 2nd hand Chinese junk
    Unified project management vs poor management
    Company marketing vs relying on the state
    Enforcement of anti-corruption vs turning a blind eye

    The list goes on and on...




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    Re: Status of Russian Military Industrial Complex (MIC)

    Post  sepheronx on Wed Jul 07, 2010 5:54 pm

    You know Vlad, I have been gone for a while, and thought that you may have changed. But you have not. You are not the only Russian who has served and that roams the internet. If you go to other sites (I can give you a link) they will tell you the same thing.

    Russia has to adjust to new standards. They need to build what they know and intake what they don't. But there is a problem of reliance. If you rely on someone else for your goods, then you are susceptible to sanctions which in turn can hurt you (look at USSR after second world war).

    Also, there was an article floating around that Russia intends to spend on R&D as well as purchase things like UAV's/UCAV's and various other tools in the future.

    What Russia needs to do, is pull a China. In other words, spend much more on economic and infrastructure upgrade, before going back to military. The problem though is that they would fall even further behind in the sectors that they are currently ahead (Missile defense).

    You may have seen things happen, but does not make you right. It is the same thing with me and in the country I am currently living in (Canada). I have seen things and have heard and learned of what happened to us. Believe me, we once had one of the largest Navies in the world. Look at us now? we only have US defense companies in our country building our technology. I know how cynical you are towards your country and what is happening, but believe you me, you do not want to go this rout. If you think the US would be kind enough to allow you have an advanced defense industry while being in NATO or being so called "allies" (which can change in a matter of years), you are rightfully wrong.

    Believe it or not, but the Russian defense industries are still among the top most competing. Why else are countries like India always involved? India has access to all nations technologies, yet they still continue to go with Russian. What about Libya? They have sanctions released and now western defense agencies are trying to sell sell sell. Yet Libya is interested in, once again, in Russian technologies. China may not have a choice, but they too are interested in the technologies as well (various other countries too).

    Yes, Russia is outdated in various aspects, but that is expected to happen.

    But I sense the same thing in your words as I have in many people who come from a specific city in the country I live (A city that mostly, oddly enough, Russian's and Ukrainians live). This is a city where people complain and talk ill of the city and their dreams are to move away but never to help progress. If things are indeed as bad as you say, then Russia does not have a future. If you disagree with this statement, then it is your fault, as you make it out to be that way. But the best option for you is to do something about it. Join a political group. Go join activists. Get up and do something about it, rather then complain about it.

    I just hope for the best for you and your country. But as I read it, I don't think you feel the same.

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    Re: Status of Russian Military Industrial Complex (MIC)

    Post  Vladimir79 on Thu Jul 08, 2010 12:58 am

    sepheronx wrote:You know Vlad, I have been gone for a while, and thought that you may have changed. But you have not. You are not the only Russian who has served and that roams the internet. If you go to other sites (I can give you a link) they will tell you the same thing.

    It seems you have been doing some complaining yourself. Yeah, I browse militaryphotos too and saw a couple of your rants. Who is more angry? bounce

    Russia has to adjust to new standards. They need to build what they know and intake what they don't. But there is a problem of reliance. If you rely on someone else for your goods, then you are susceptible to sanctions which in turn can hurt you (look at USSR after second world war).

    If we need to get what we don't know, how are we going to get it? US just made the biggest bust of a Russian spy ring since the Cold War. The only option left is to buy it. We either suffer reliance or have an obsolete Army.

    Also, there was an article floating around that Russia intends to spend on R&D as well as purchase things like UAV's/UCAV's and various other tools in the future.

    The article said once we get what we want from Israel we will not buy from them. From the way things are developing that is going to be some time. Putin also said we will not steal imported technology as we are no China.

    What Russia needs to do, is pull a China. In other words, spend much more on economic and infrastructure upgrade, before going back to military. The problem though is that they would fall even further behind in the sectors that they are currently ahead (Missile defense).

    I agree, our infrastructure is falling apart.

    You may have seen things happen, but does not make you right. It is the same thing with me and in the country I am currently living in (Canada). I have seen things and have heard and learned of what happened to us. Believe me, we once had one of the largest Navies in the world. Look at us now? we only have US defense companies in our country building our technology. I know how cynical you are towards your country and what is happening, but believe you me, you do not want to go this rout. If you think the US would be kind enough to allow you have an advanced defense industry while being in NATO or being so called "allies" (which can change in a matter of years), you are rightfully wrong.

    You want to compare Canada to Russia? Canada had one of the largest navies in the world? lol!


    Believe it or not, but the Russian defense industries are still among the top most competing. Why else are countries like India always involved? India has access to all nations technologies, yet they still continue to go with Russian. What about Libya? They have sanctions released and now western defense agencies are trying to sell sell sell. Yet Libya is interested in, once again, in Russian technologies. China may not have a choice, but they too are interested in the technologies as well (various other countries too).

    What about Libya? They reported $11b worth of deals and it turned out just to be T-72 modernisation and an Ak-74 factory. They look poised to buy Rafale and FREMM. China has a choice and they have chosen that our land armaments are not good enough for them. Their lack of engine technology is their own problem. When it comes to marine and helicopter engines, they turn to France.

    Yes, Russia is outdated in various aspects, but that is expected to happen.

    Expected for who? When I was a child watching Red Army parades I never expected to be watching the same technology crossing the streets or flying over Red Square as I saw 25 years ago.

    But I sense the same thing in your words as I have in many people who come from a specific city in the country I live (A city that mostly, oddly enough, Russian's and Ukrainians live). This is a city where people complain and talk ill of the city and their dreams are to move away but never to help progress. If things are indeed as bad as you say, then Russia does not have a future. If you disagree with this statement, then it is your fault, as you make it out to be that way. But the best option for you is to do something about it. Join a political group. Go join activists. Get up and do something about it, rather then complain about it.

    Joining activists is how you end up in jail. I will only join a movement that has a chance to succeed. I am no fool. I do my work through the Church. It is the only thing that is safe from political crackdowns. Things are as bad as I say, but Russia can easily have a future when the government wakes up to what makes capitalism really work. The small business and a fair rule of law.

    I just hope for the best for you and your country. But as I read it, I don't think you feel the same.


    It isn't my country I have a problem with, it is the corrupt officials that run it. If you can't distinguish the two, you have a serious comprehension problem.

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    Re: Status of Russian Military Industrial Complex (MIC)

    Post  GarryB on Thu Jul 08, 2010 4:14 am

    Well lets look:

    Look at any Western defence company and compare it to a state owned Russian JSC.

    High vs low wages
    Actually all the biggest pay rates and company cars and other perks go to the management. The workers get paid the minimum the company can get away with.
    Qualified labour pool vs unqualified
    And having qualified people that are unemployed because immigrants will work for less is OK?
    The qualified labour pool drives down wages. If you wont work for that someone else will.
    Worker age under 40 vs 58+
    Having the entire management structure filled with young people means experience is less respected than "degrees". Most of the time it is the people who actually do the work that are more valuable to the company than the 35 year old manager with his shiny new degree on the wall.

    Shareholder accountability vs junk stock
    Yes... the Fuck everything except the profit margin attitude... that created the economic crisis. It also creates oil spills and environmental pollution.

    Latest equipment vs rusting Soviet or 2nd hand Chinese junk
    We had the latest equipment here in a company called Fisher & Paykel. They made whiteware like fridges and ovens. It turns out labour is cheaper in Mexico right now so that is where they moved the factory. When wages rise in Mexico they will likely move to China. This is their plan, which they have stated.
    Skilled workforce? All the work is simple factory labour... put five screws in this big part and then get another big part and put in five screws etc etc. Progress to state of the art is two people watching a robot waiting for a light to come on to refill the screw compartment.

    Unified project management vs poor management
    Yeah, wonderful western management techniques, that is the solution to Russias problems. Russia has universities, surely they teach management? Cannot they start teaching the "Western Way". It is not black magic.

    Company marketing vs relying on the state
    The problem there is that most MIC in Russia have limited capacity to sell independantly. Their marketing is already handled, and to break that up would be stupid in my opinion. Before it was joined up Mil would undermine Kamov and Kamov would unmine Mil and Bell would win.

    Enforcement of anti-corruption vs turning a blind eye
    Corruption is certainly a problem, but don't think getting rid of corruption will help Russian military companies on the international market. In fact teaching them how to be corrupt at the right times would be a much better strategy. Many contracts are won or lost on the quality of women whose services can be provided for certain officials.

    What I am trying to say is that the West is no where near perfect either and if you want to become a western style country and think that will solve all your problems... think again.
    You will have lost your identity and still have lots of problems.
    To be brutally honest I think you need to look at the way the west does things and then pick and choose what suits you. Then look at the Asians and the Africans and of course the central and south americans and see how they do things. You might find they do some things better. What you will also find is that one thing the Asians don't like is when westerners try to impose their way of doing things on them. I am speaking in very broad terms here of course there are plenty of variances within the west, asians, and africans and the americas so learning say from the US, Japan, Ghana, and Peru will not be enough. I think you already know which countries are worth approaching in terms of building a relationship and which are hostile to Russia. France, Germany and Greece and a few other European countries, plus Vietnam, South Korea, Indonesia perhaps, etc etc.

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    Re: Status of Russian Military Industrial Complex (MIC)

    Post  Vladimir79 on Thu Jul 08, 2010 12:16 pm

    GarryB wrote:

    Actually all the biggest pay rates and company cars and other perks go to the management. The workers get paid the minimum the company can get away with.

    Managers don't make that much money either, which is why no one from the West wants to work there. It is the executives that steal the money.

    And having qualified people that are unemployed because immigrants will work for less is OK?
    The qualified labour pool drives down wages. If you wont work for that someone else will.

    There aren't too many migrants working in the MIC, any of them who have qualifications go to the West. There are plenty of unqualified Russians to fill those slots. It is not like Turks stealing menial labour jobs.

    Having the entire management structure filled with young people means experience is less respected than "degrees". Most of the time it is the people who actually do the work that are more valuable to the company than the 35 year old manager with his shiny new degree on the wall.

    The management structure is mostly made up of people educated in the CCCP. They never bothered to reducate themselves to working in a non-centrally planned economy. Who to kid? It is still largely a centrally planned economy which is why it doesn't work. They still think like the Soviet which is why no one has adapted the modern means.

    Yes... the Fuck everything except the profit margin attitude... that created the economic crisis. It also creates oil spills and environmental pollution.

    They are still for the profit, just lining their own pockets and not the shareholders No one can compare to Russian industrialists as causes of pollution except China. The original point being that they do not care about cutting costs to have a lean mean profit making company because the state will always bail them out.

    We had the latest equipment here in a company called Fisher & Paykel. They made whiteware like fridges and ovens. It turns out labour is cheaper in Mexico right now so that is where they moved the factory. When wages rise in Mexico they will likely move to China. This is their plan, which they have stated.
    Skilled workforce? All the work is simple factory labour... put five screws in this big part and then get another big part and put in five screws etc etc. Progress to state of the art is two people watching a robot waiting for a light to come on to refill the screw compartment.

    Automation means improved efficiency, which means profits. It also means better quality products. Two things Russia sourly lacks at the moment.

    Yeah, wonderful western management techniques, that is the solution to Russias problems. Russia has universities, surely they teach management? Cannot they start teaching the "Western Way". It is not black magic.

    I will tell you a thing or two about Russian business schools. They teach the fundamentals of business 101, but they do not teach the importance of marketing, human resources, production efficiency, and unified management. The curriculum is still based on operating in a centrally planned economy. It is totally outdated.

    The problem there is that most MIC in Russia have limited capacity to sell independantly. Their marketing is already handled, and to break that up would be stupid in my opinion. Before it was joined up Mil would undermine Kamov and Kamov would unmine Mil and Bell would win.

    They don't sell independently because it is illegal to go outside of Rosboronexport. To break that up would break the monopoly of state control on the MIC which is a big hindrance to its innovation.

    Corruption is certainly a problem, but don't think getting rid of corruption will help Russian military companies on the international market. In fact teaching them how to be corrupt at the right times would be a much better strategy. Many contracts are won or lost on the quality of women whose services can be provided for certain officials.

    Getting rid of corruption will make Russian military companies make a 180. They will stop pocketing the funds as bribes and actually reinvest it in the corporation.

    What I am trying to say is that the West is no where near perfect either and if you want to become a western style country and think that will solve all your problems... think again.
    You will have lost your identity and still have lots of problems.
    To be brutally honest I think you need to look at the way the west does things and then pick and choose what suits you. Then look at the Asians and the Africans and of course the central and south americans and see how they do things. You might find they do some things better. What you will also find is that one thing the Asians don't like is when westerners try to impose their way of doing things on them. I am speaking in very broad terms here of course there are plenty of variances within the west, asians, and africans and the americas so learning say from the US, Japan, Ghana, and Peru will not be enough. I think you already know which countries are worth approaching in terms of building a relationship and which are hostile to Russia. France, Germany and Greece and a few other European countries, plus Vietnam, South Korea, Indonesia perhaps, etc etc.

    Everyone needs to adapt capitalism to their own economic systems, that is why so many countries have been succesful. But there are underlying tenants that we still have not adopted that are necessary for long term growth. Such as... support of small business, independent judiciary, and the break-up of monopolies to encourage competition. There is no competition in Russia, those who have cornered the markets pay a bribe to the courts to shut down anything in their way.

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