[Fiction] a Russo-Turkish war

Share youur opinions about the possible course of such war

Conditions:

1. Surprise... The war does not take place over Syria - it takes place in Georgia, with a combined Turkish-Georgian assault on South Ossetia (yeah... Tskhinvali again. Don't ask how it comes about, just assume it does)
2. The war involves all of Turkish army, with 100,000 troops deployed in Georgia (with troop rotation) and the rest all over Turkey. It also includes several thousand anti-Russian volunteers from Ukraine, Poland, the Baltics and some Islamist militias.
3. No use of NBC weapons
4. Limitecd NATO support (intelligence data, armament)
5. The war should end with RUssian or, possibly, Greek troops in Istanbul.

Let your imagination get loose, guys.

Just need to destroy their arforce with SU-35/30 plus Iskanders. They have just F-16s and short range SAMs. Then you control the airspace and your Su-25, ka-52... can destroy their vehicles.Ground forces should be use to stop their attacks then Attack with a big air support. 2 weeks later the war is finished. Put nuclear iskanders in Kalningrad and Europeans will do nothing.

US will try to help with intelligence but Nothing more.

Doesn't need to put your soldiers in Istanbul just a blocus should be enough. It's pretty dangerous to send your ground forces in a big city as they can get ATGMs easily and youo risk to be in the situation of US in Irak. Poeple will remove Erdogan and stop war.

Air war with Turkey in a hypothetical conflict over the Black Sea

http://eagle-rost.livejournal.com/628015.html

PapaDragon wrote:
Conventional war is long and expensive...

Nuclear war is short and cheap...

Russia prefers to save money...

USA likes Turkey but not that much...

Do the math...

If you win it's not expensive. When the third reich won in France, they had to suplly them with million $$ of food and goods. At the end of WW2, US had 2/3 of all the reserve gold because they stoll it to the europeans. Its even better than nuclear war.

George1 wrote:Air war with Turkey in a hypothetical conflict over the Black Sea

http://eagle-rost.livejournal.com/628015.html

In English please !!!!

Isos wrote:

George1 wrote:Air war with Turkey in a hypothetical conflict over the Black Sea

http://eagle-rost.livejournal.com/628015.html

In English please !!!!

Basically. Not enough planes, not enough tankers, not enough range from the F16 and nearly not enough Air DEfence when it comes to Turkey.

But Russia doesn't have a clear foothold quality wise in the area vs F16D and anyway most of the damage will be done by Russian missiles on Turkish bases, on the ground.

I would be furious if ever Russia claim war on Turkey. I prefer to reserve this pleasure for myself, even if the chance is unfortunately extremely remote at the moment.

Big cruise missile salvo, and other strategic strikes against Turkish assets and installations. F-16's wont do shit when the airfields are burning and their runways are full of craters. Turkish AD is completely inadequate and wont be able to do anything to stop this.

Turkey's only real strength is infantry. Russia's second move will be deploying the VDV in E-NE Turkey, it's mountainous, and they would be used to capture and hold key heights. Turkey would be forced to react by sending their land forces single file up windy mountain roads, where the VDV will cut them to ribbons. Kornets and other ATGM's will be horrendously devastating against Turkey's outdated armor. They will be able to cover vast kill zones in this terrain, and on top of that, the VDV will mine everything. So the Turkish army will end up slowing to a crawl.

The VDV forces will link up with the Kurdish resistance, find supply channels, and arm them to the teeth. The entire Kurdish region will go ape shit and will further bog down the Turks.

After a day or so, russia's main forces will likely begin to appear along the Armenian and Iranian borders. They will push westward, but will only go as far as the Kurdish territory. The strategic goal of russia will be to neuter the Turkish armed forces, partition the country, and end the war as quickly as possible.

We don't have any planes in the southern military district that can out range the F-16D in radar? That's outrageous, What are our aviation doing? Radars are key to fighter jets, And losing in that sector to the Turkish air force is very very how to say stupid... Either way, We have more than a few subs and ships nearby that can spam a good cruise missile hell onto the Turks.

VladimirSahin wrote:We don't have any planes in the southern military district that can out range the F-16D in radar? That's outrageous, What are our aviation doing? Radars are key to fighter jets, And losing in that sector to the Turkish air force is very very how to say stupid... Either way, We have more than a few subs and ships nearby that can spam a good cruise missile hell onto the Turks.

You're not going to lose anything to Turkey, their current coverage of the area should deplete their WHOLE airforce in a week. With a 2/3 availability the Turks are going to have about 170 planes for the whole front. Let's say 25% is lost each day, that's 4 days before the casualty ratio denies a critical mass (40/35/25/20) and amplifies losses (at 130 planes left the availability rate is going to bite the Turks and from 25% the losses will go up. Even at 33% the losses will get back to tremendous levels and unless the US steps in the roll down will probably get to about 50 planes kept as a token force). This IF Russia allows a "fair fight" and lets those planes take the air...

KoTeMoRe wrote:

VladimirSahin wrote:We don't have any planes in the southern military district that can out range the F-16D in radar? That's outrageous, What are our aviation doing? Radars are key to fighter jets, And losing in that sector to the Turkish air force is very very how to say stupid... Either way, We have more than a few subs and ships nearby that can spam a good cruise missile hell onto the Turks.

You're not going to lose anything to Turkey, their current coverage of the area should deplete their WHOLE airforce in a week. With a 2/3 availability the Turks are going to have about 170 planes for the whole front. Let's say 25% is lost each day, that's 4 days before the casualty ratio denies a critical mass (40/35/25/20) and amplifies losses (at 130 planes left the availability rate is going to bite the Turks and from 25% the losses will go up. Even at 33% the losses will get back to tremendous levels and unless the US steps in the roll down will probably get to about 50 planes kept as a token force). This IF Russia allows a "fair fight" and lets those planes take the air...

KoTeMoRe I appreciate the information, Didn't look at it that way.

VladimirSahin wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:

VladimirSahin wrote:We don't have any planes in the southern military district that can out range the F-16D in radar? That's outrageous, What are our aviation doing? Radars are key to fighter jets, And losing in that sector to the Turkish air force is very very how to say stupid... Either way, We have more than a few subs and ships nearby that can spam a good cruise missile hell onto the Turks.

You're not going to lose anything to Turkey, their current coverage of the area should deplete their WHOLE airforce in a week. With a 2/3 availability the Turks are going to have about 170 planes for the whole front. Let's say 25% is lost each day, that's 4 days before the casualty ratio denies a critical mass (40/35/25/20) and amplifies losses (at 130 planes left the availability rate is going to bite the Turks and from 25% the losses will go up. Even at 33% the losses will get back to tremendous levels and unless the US steps in the roll down will probably get to about 50 planes kept as a token force). This IF Russia allows a "fair fight" and lets those planes take the air...

KoTeMoRe I appreciate the information, Didn't look at it that way.

It's because people are blinded by OMGAIRSUPERIORITY111. Losing planes to AA systems that can hit you within your borders, is actually the weakest link of TurAF. They can't defend against Russian Strategical assets, they can't defend against Russian tactical assets from the ground and probably from the air. Their only chance is that Russia somehow defends purely from the air. Which we know it's not what Russia does. So basically Russia wins the air war. From there on, the war gets really, really tough for Turkey. Possibly it could lose the whole Eastern provinces to "Kurdish Militias"...NovoKurdia etc..

Hannibal Barca wrote:I would be furious if ever Russia claim war on Turkey. I prefer to reserve this pleasure for myself, even if the chance is unfortunately extremely remote at the moment.

Not necessarily as remote as you might think. However, here we are talking about the minor aspects of the scenario for the current world war, and these minor aspects of the scenario are hardest (the most meaningless) to predict. Of course, the liberation of Turkey by Greece would be preceded by Greece first leaving the North Atlantic Terrorist Organization (NATO).

Also look at how the troll that started this thread has diverted forum members' attention from the current world war with its precisely known outcomes to some fictional garbage.

Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:

Hannibal Barca wrote:I would be furious if ever Russia claim war on Turkey. I prefer to reserve this pleasure for myself, even if the chance is unfortunately extremely remote at the moment.

Not necessarily as remote as you might think. However, here we are talking about the minor aspects of the scenario for the current world war, and these minor aspects of the scenario are hardest (the most meaningless) to predict. Of course, the liberation of Turkey by Greece would be preceded by Greece first leaving the North Atlantic Terrorist Organization (NATO).

Also look at how the troll that started this thread has diverted forum members' attention from the current world war with its precisely known outcomes to some fictional garbage.

+1

A massive air strike with cruise missiles against the infrastructure in the area of energy supply should Turkey join virtually from tourism and the economic game. The damage would be in the first 4 to 5 days tremendously in the long run. It should also, if possible, the civilian victims are largely avoided during the first 5 to 7 days. This could lead to a military coup and eliminate fascism Haunting Erdogang. During this time, losses and damages in the border area are trying to avoid.

but if it takes longer than 7 to 10 days as Russia should have Built enough power to then act massive against the Turkish military. From day 11 Turkish fleet should be the main objective. Also shipyards or technology parks should be destroyed. The price for Turkey dürfte so expensive that are from day 20 this abandonment must.

If not, a NATO entry, or land and lease agreement is still likely.

I started this thread in the Russian Army subforum. I wanted a thread similar to the "how to clear a city from 5000 terrorists" thread but about a large and plausible war. Discussing plausible miitary scenerios does take place on historical/military discussion boards.

Some mod moved it to the Middle East subforum, without my knowledge and approval.

I am not a troll BTW.

Walther von Oldenburg wrote:
I am not a troll BTW.

Unlike most people some here judge people by their actions not their fancy words.

I am doing my best. Sometimes things don't work even with sincere effort. OFten when writing I am angry and can't bring myself to think rationally.

By creating this thread I had no evil intentions in mind.

Possible attack plan on Turkish Air Force

In the case of a decision to start air war against Turkey can assume the following procedure for conducting an operation in 3 steps:

1. The first strike-forces of the Black Sea Fleet (two submarines and two Project 06363 small missile ship Project 21631), having adopted the missile complex "Caliber," "turn off" the main forces of the Turkish defense radars and command and control centers of the Armed Forces of this country. You can also use for this the special forces. Simultaneously clumping EW means for radio communication Turkey. The main reason that causes blow BSF is the minimum flight time, Turkey has simply no time to react.

2. The second blow is applied to strategic bombers Tu-160 and Tu-95MS with cruise missiles at air bases of the Turkish Air Force. Far Eastern group (Ukrainka airbase) strikes from the area of ​​the Southern Urals and northern Kazakhstan. You may experience problems with border crossing cruise missiles, if the fire from the area of ​​the Southern Urals, the rocket will go through the territory of several countries (Kazakhstan, Iran).
Ships with "caliber" of the Caspian Flotilla may also participate in this stage.

3. The third, strike bombers and attack planes. Bombers Tu-22M3 produce missile and bomb strikes on airfields of Turkish Air Force, remained intact after 1 and second strikes. After that, once produced, forces are redeplyed from major airports in the dispersal airfields in the North Caucasus and the Crimea. Simultaneously, the group of forces of 4th Army Air Forces and Air Defense transfer a few regiments with Su-35s and MiG-31, as well as bombers with CVO and TSB.

http://eagle-rost.livejournal.com/628981.html

Pretty solid plan, Would the Turks have anything to counter this? Surely their patriots wouldn't sit idle while bombers are overhead, Assuming their positions have not been hit by cruise missiles.

VladimirSahin wrote:Pretty solid plan, Would the Turks have anything to counter this? Surely their patriots wouldn't sit idle while bombers are overhead, Assuming their positions have not been hit by cruise missiles.

Patriots from where? Borrowed Patriots cannot cover the 8 bases the Turks would need to operate and Turks have no Patriots of their own...

Also most CM strikes will be done well within Russian territory and well out of Turkish airspace and Patriot range.

Turkish Army might.

One ISIS ATGM team, firing from the same position, takes out three T-155 howitzers with a Kornet.

Zivo wrote:Turkish Army might.

One ISIS ATGM team, firing from the same position, takes out three T-155 howitzers with a Kornet.

...The GLORIOUS irony lol!

magnumcromagnon wrote:

Zivo wrote:Turkish Army might.

One ISIS ATGM team, firing from the same position, takes out three T-155 howitzers with a Kornet.

...The GLORIOUS irony lol!

Post #9 in this thread I wrote.

Zivo wrote:

(...)

Turkey's only real strength is infantry. Russia's second move will be deploying the VDV in E-NE Turkey, it's mountainous, and they would be used to capture and hold key heights. Turkey would be forced to react by sending their land forces single file up windy mountain roads, where the VDV will cut them to ribbons. Kornets and other ATGM's will be horrendously devastating against Turkey's outdated armor. They will be able to cover vast kill zones in this terrain, and on top of that, the VDV will mine everything. So the Turkish army will end up slowing to a crawl.

(...)

If one ISIS ATGM team can do that, imagine what a few VDV Kornet teams could do.