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    Russian Naval Shipbuilding Industry: News

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    sepheronx

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    Re: Russian Naval Shipbuilding Industry: News

    Post  sepheronx on Mon Dec 07, 2015 5:03 pm

    http://tass.ru/en/society/841960

    So there was an explosion at the st.pete shipyard due to poor safety practice of welding while painting....  minimum damage to infrastructure, equipment ect but 1 died and 7 injured.

    Seems to be a common problem with Russian inudstries and poor safety practices even though they had so many incidences and many were fired for it.  Seems everyone loves to skimp out on doing the job properly.
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    Militarov

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    Re: Russian Naval Shipbuilding Industry: News

    Post  Militarov on Mon Dec 07, 2015 5:14 pm

    sepheronx wrote:http://tass.ru/en/society/841960

    So there was an explosion at the st.pete shipyard due to poor safety practice of welding while painting....  minimum damage to infrastructure, equipment ect but 1 died and 7 injured.

    Seems to be a common problem with Russian inudstries and poor safety practices even though they had so many incidences and many were fired for it.  Seems everyone loves to skimp out on doing the job properly.

    Welding and painting at the same time, just read this to my dad "over shoulder" and he said he never heard of such practice in his life (military mechanical engineer).
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    sepheronx

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    Re: Russian Naval Shipbuilding Industry: News

    Post  sepheronx on Mon Dec 07, 2015 5:20 pm

    Then there clearly is an issue with the people at these shipyards. Time to clean house. Maybe also start with more adaptove safety systems like having a separate team for it that monitors the work practices of the people.
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    Militarov

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    Re: Russian Naval Shipbuilding Industry: News

    Post  Militarov on Mon Dec 07, 2015 5:28 pm

    sepheronx wrote:Then there clearly is an issue with the people at these shipyards. Time to clean house. Maybe also start with more adaptove safety systems like having a separate team for it that monitors the work practices of the people.

    I dont know, it might be something considered as ok in shipyards, due to magnitude of the work etc, as my dad said even doing welding works on one side of the hull and painting on other wouldnt be a problem, especially with safety measues, however doing it in a way where they can come in contact is everything but smart.

    He says when tanks are being overhauled, painting section is always separated from mechanical area due to welding, tooling, sparks, hot pieces of metal etc. And firefighter is always somewhere around just in case. Was like that 35 years ago in Yugoslavia and we can say safety procedures were not really first priority back then ago as they are now.
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    sepheronx

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    Re: Russian Naval Shipbuilding Industry: News

    Post  sepheronx on Mon Dec 07, 2015 5:47 pm

    Heads need to roll.  I am not a welder but I know not to do this.  Whoever sanctioned the idea for it should be on the streets sweeping and manager in charge should be accompanying him.  Really really retarded.
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    kvs

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    Re: Russian Naval Shipbuilding Industry: News

    Post  kvs on Fri Dec 11, 2015 1:58 am

    I don't like sounding like a one-note Johnny, but I would not be surprised by 5th column activity.   Obama was boasting how
    there will be costs for Russia for "meddling in Ukraine" (total blood libel hypocrisy from Uncle Scam).   So why wouldn't the
    US pay some retards to disrupt Russia's economy.   This incident is likely small potatoes compared to some other sabotage
    under way.  The problem with Russia is that there are 5% (including many of the middle and upper class, who would be
    in management) who are outright 5th column scum that want to sell Russia down the river.  

    Some things are just too obvious to be avoided under normal circumstances such as painting and welding.  Clearly Russia
    is not disorganized to the extent that it is a 3rd world toilet.   So why do you get these cases at all?   My claim is that this
    is the same as the hammering of the key sensors on the Proton backwards leading to the epic crash.   Uncle Scam can throw
    billions of dollars around to both damage Russia and to keep its propaganda narratives alive.

    Then there is the Russian problem of an underdeveloped legal system.   There needs to be active civil case litigation.  The
    families of the victims should be able to sue the management for every cent, for free.   It should not be up to some prosecutor's
    office to pursue every case.   They simply can't.  Grass roots action under the umbrella of the law is the best policing mechanism.
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    Militarov

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    Re: Russian Naval Shipbuilding Industry: News

    Post  Militarov on Sat Dec 12, 2015 3:26 am



    New floating dock/dock-transport Svyaga (Project 22570) entered into service. Home port-Severodvinsk.

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    sepheronx

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    Re: Russian Naval Shipbuilding Industry: News

    Post  sepheronx on Sat Dec 19, 2015 6:08 pm

    Russia's Rosneft will invest $2 bln into Zvezda Shipyard — CEO
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    kvs

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    Re: Russian Naval Shipbuilding Industry: News

    Post  kvs on Sat Dec 19, 2015 7:16 pm

    Militarov wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:

    China has an AIP system of their own? Same with S.Korea?  I thought that was mainly France and Germany that had it.

    And why it would take Russia longer to produce one?  I thought they already had one on their Lada submarine (which is AIP as well)?  Unless this is all brand new technology cause I see them mention Hydrogen Fuel Cells, which gives me indication that this is a whole new system.

    Yeah China has AIP on Type 039A subs sometimes refered to as Type 41A, but its stirling AIP  not fuel cell. Stirling engine solution burns diesel and liquid oxigen, and its combusted on very high pressure (higher than surrounding water) so it still can push the exaust gases outside, this kinda limits maximum depth to somewhat about 200m. Meanwhlie it can directly supply electricity to all systems or charge batteries.

    "Stirling engines are often compared to reciprocating steam engines, in that they employ a piston-cylinder assembly, but they differ fundamentally, in that the working fluid in the engine is sealed and separated from the heat source, in a closed cycle arrangement. Heat is provided to the Stirling engine by the external combustion of a fuel and oxidiser"

    Japan based their AIP subs Sōryū on Swedish Stirling AIP solution built by Kockums Naval Solutions (SAAB) simply by getting licence. Swedes did this like 2 decades ago basically, so all theirs subs were modified including two that were sold to Singapure to feature AIP.

    When its about South Korea they operate Type 214 which for i belive Hyundai Heavy Industries got "licence".



    So as usual Russian officials spout off like drama queens with totally unnecessary tint of crisis and "we can never get it right" defeatism.
    All of the competition is running Stirling AIP, but you wouldn't know it from these Russian idiot officials. Probably because they don't
    know the difference even though it is their f*cking job to know it.
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    sepheronx

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    Re: Russian Naval Shipbuilding Industry: News

    Post  sepheronx on Sat Dec 19, 2015 8:01 pm

    kvs wrote:
    Militarov wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:

    China has an AIP system of their own? Same with S.Korea?  I thought that was mainly France and Germany that had it.

    And why it would take Russia longer to produce one?  I thought they already had one on their Lada submarine (which is AIP as well)?  Unless this is all brand new technology cause I see them mention Hydrogen Fuel Cells, which gives me indication that this is a whole new system.

    Yeah China has AIP on Type 039A subs sometimes refered to as Type 41A, but its stirling AIP  not fuel cell. Stirling engine solution burns diesel and liquid oxigen, and its combusted on very high pressure (higher than surrounding water) so it still can push the exaust gases outside, this kinda limits maximum depth to somewhat about 200m. Meanwhlie it can directly supply electricity to all systems or charge batteries.

    "Stirling engines are often compared to reciprocating steam engines, in that they employ a piston-cylinder assembly, but they differ fundamentally, in that the working fluid in the engine is sealed and separated from the heat source, in a closed cycle arrangement. Heat is provided to the Stirling engine by the external combustion of a fuel and oxidiser"

    Japan based their AIP subs Sōryū on Swedish Stirling AIP solution built by Kockums Naval Solutions (SAAB) simply by getting licence. Swedes did this like 2 decades ago basically, so all theirs subs were modified including two that were sold to Singapure to feature AIP.

    When its about South Korea they operate Type 214 which for i belive Hyundai Heavy Industries got "licence".



    So as usual Russian officials spout off like drama queens with totally unnecessary tint of crisis and "we can never get it right" defeatism.  
    All of the competition is running Stirling AIP, but you wouldn't know it from these Russian idiot officials.   Probably because they don't
    know the difference even though it is their f*cking job to know it.

    It is possible. Or the other idea is that it is kinda like the idea of mentioning that there is a need to do it (to get money of course) in order to compete but when in reality, the system they are producing is significantly more advanced than what the alternatives are.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russian Naval Shipbuilding Industry: News

    Post  GarryB on Sun Dec 20, 2015 12:10 am

    China has an AIP system of their own? Same with S.Korea? I thought that was mainly France and Germany that had it.

    And why it would take Russia longer to produce one? I thought they already had one on their Lada submarine (which is AIP as well)? Unless this is all brand new technology cause I see them mention Hydrogen Fuel Cells, which gives me indication that this is a whole new system.

    Russia already has a proven AIP technology... it is called nuclear propulsion.

    the west uses hydrogen membrane AIP where oxygen and hydrogen are used through a membrane that peals off electrons from the hydrogen as it passes through and when it recombines with oxygen and the stripped electrons are added again you have a current flow of electrons and heat. It is fully reversable so if you can surface safely you can apply electricity from a diesel engine and charge the batteries and also produce hydrogen for the AIP at sea.

    The major problems for such a system is that most ports already have the infrastructure to handle diesel or heavy oil for fuels but are not equipped to store and transfer hydrogen.

    The Chinese system... if it is just a sterling engine is just like a diesel engine using stored oxygen... liquid oxygen is a very dangerous substance to carry on a sub which counts against both systems... you simply can't put out an oxygen fire and any fuels immersed in liquid oxygen almost explode in such an oxygen rich environment...

    The Russian system which has passed all its land based tests and just needs field trials in a real boat uses normal diesel... which is available already in pretty much any port around the world already and will be carried by all existing diesel electric submarines... all the piping is already there... in port and on board the vessels. the difference will be adding an AIP section and ensuring the diesel can be pumped into that section.

    From what I have read the Russian system generates more than 5 times more power than hydrogen membrane systems from the west.


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    max steel

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    Re: Russian Naval Shipbuilding Industry: News

    Post  max steel on Sat Dec 26, 2015 6:51 am

    A very important news: Northern Shipyard (Severnay Verf) has started a massive modernization program



    The centerpiece of this program is a brand new dry dock with the length of....400 meters. That means only one thing--aircraft carrier(s). Will the time be right for Russian carriers by 2020-2022? I am not in a position to judge but there never were doubts about Russia's blue water aspirations. We'll see. Judging by the tone of news, most of the programs for Russian Navy seem to be financed in full.
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    Zivo

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    Re: Russian Naval Shipbuilding Industry: News

    Post  Zivo on Sat Dec 26, 2015 9:56 am

    max steel wrote:A very important news: Northern Shipyard (Severnay Verf) has started a massive modernization program



    The centerpiece of this program is a brand new dry dock with the length of....400 meters. That means only one thing--aircraft carrier(s). Will the time be right for Russian carriers by 2020-2022? I am not in a position to judge but there never were doubts about Russia's blue water aspirations. We'll see. Judging by the tone of news, most of the programs for Russian Navy seem to be financed in full.

    Nope, Mega-Kirovs. pirat
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    OminousSpudd

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    Re: Russian Naval Shipbuilding Industry: News

    Post  OminousSpudd on Sat Dec 26, 2015 11:29 am

    Zivo wrote:
    max steel wrote:A very important news: Northern Shipyard (Severnay Verf) has started a massive modernization program



    The centerpiece of this program is a brand new dry dock with the length of....400 meters. That means only one thing--aircraft carrier(s). Will the time be right for Russian carriers by 2020-2022? I am not in a position to judge but there never were doubts about Russia's blue water aspirations. We'll see. Judging by the tone of news, most of the programs for Russian Navy seem to be financed in full.

    Nope, Mega-Kirovs. pirat

    Oh please tell me you're not joking... This would be amazing.
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    Militarov

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    Re: Russian Naval Shipbuilding Industry: News

    Post  Militarov on Sat Dec 26, 2015 12:29 pm

    max steel wrote:A very important news: Northern Shipyard (Severnay Verf) has started a massive modernization program



    The centerpiece of this program is a brand new dry dock with the length of....400 meters. That means only one thing--aircraft carrier(s). Will the time be right for Russian carriers by 2020-2022? I am not in a position to judge but there never were doubts about Russia's blue water aspirations. We'll see. Judging by the tone of news, most of the programs for Russian Navy seem to be financed in full.

    400m would be good start for Russian shipbuilding, however i cant find anywhere that in text, is that from some other source?
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    Militarov

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    Re: Russian Naval Shipbuilding Industry: News

    Post  Militarov on Sat Dec 26, 2015 12:33 pm

    kvs wrote:
    Militarov wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:

    China has an AIP system of their own? Same with S.Korea?  I thought that was mainly France and Germany that had it.

    And why it would take Russia longer to produce one?  I thought they already had one on their Lada submarine (which is AIP as well)?  Unless this is all brand new technology cause I see them mention Hydrogen Fuel Cells, which gives me indication that this is a whole new system.

    Yeah China has AIP on Type 039A subs sometimes refered to as Type 41A, but its stirling AIP  not fuel cell. Stirling engine solution burns diesel and liquid oxigen, and its combusted on very high pressure (higher than surrounding water) so it still can push the exaust gases outside, this kinda limits maximum depth to somewhat about 200m. Meanwhlie it can directly supply electricity to all systems or charge batteries.

    "Stirling engines are often compared to reciprocating steam engines, in that they employ a piston-cylinder assembly, but they differ fundamentally, in that the working fluid in the engine is sealed and separated from the heat source, in a closed cycle arrangement. Heat is provided to the Stirling engine by the external combustion of a fuel and oxidiser"

    Japan based their AIP subs Sōryū on Swedish Stirling AIP solution built by Kockums Naval Solutions (SAAB) simply by getting licence. Swedes did this like 2 decades ago basically, so all theirs subs were modified including two that were sold to Singapure to feature AIP.

    When its about South Korea they operate Type 214 which for i belive Hyundai Heavy Industries got "licence".



    So as usual Russian officials spout off like drama queens with totally unnecessary tint of crisis and "we can never get it right" defeatism.  
    All of the competition is running Stirling AIP, but you wouldn't know it from these Russian idiot officials.   Probably because they don't
    know the difference even though it is their f*cking job to know it.

    Officials like drama, doesnt matter if its good or bad. Two types of officials "This new Russian pocket knife has no analogue in the world" and "Our industry is not capable of developing anything, we suck and we should buy stuff from Germany". Depends where they are trying to score points.
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    George1

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    Re: Russian Naval Shipbuilding Industry: News

    Post  George1 on Tue Feb 09, 2016 7:57 am

    Russian shipbuilding still in trouble

    A couple of recent announcements indicate that Russian shipbuilders are continuing to struggle with construction of new types of ships. First came the announcement, right at the end of 2015, that the commissioning of the Admiral Gorshkov frigate was being delayed for another year, until the end of 2016. At the same time, the navy announced that the Admiral Grigorovich frigate will be commissioned in the first quarter of 2016. It had previously been expected to be commissioned in May 2015, before being repeatedly pushed back. In addition, commissioning of the lead ship of the Alexandrit class (Project 12700) of minewsweepers has been pushed back yet again, to May 2016. It was originally planned to be in the fleet back in 2013. And sea trials of the Ivan Gren amphibious ship were also delayed until the first quarter of 2016. As a result, in 2015 the Russian Navy received no new blue water surface ships.

    On the other hand, it lost the services of several ships, including the Steregushchiy corvette that suffered a fire in April and both Neustrashimyi class frigates. The latter ships are waiting to be overhauled at Yantar shipyard, but the overhaul will take a long time since Ukraine will not supply replacement engines for the ships. The lack of engines will delay construction on most of the larger classes of surface ships, including Project 22350 (Admiral Gorshkov class hulls 3-4), Project 11356 (Admiral Gorshkov class hulls 4-6), and Project 20385 (Stereguschiy class variant, replaced by Project 20380 with less reliable Russian-built engines).

    Submarine construction may seem better on the surface, with the commissioning of two Improved Kilo class ((Project 636) diesel submarines and the return to active service in 2015 of the Akula class submarine Gepard and the Sierra class submarine Pskov after length overhauls. While there is no doubt that Russian submarine construction is in much better shape than the construction of ocean-going surface ships, there are problems here as well. First of all, despite being commissioned back in 2013, the Severodvinsk SSN remains in sea trials for the third year.

    But more importantly, development of a new class of diesel-electric submarines appears to be in trouble. Problems with propulsion systems have long delayed commissioning of the lead vessel of the Lada class, resulting in the decision taken several years ago to build six Improved Kilo class submarines for the Black Sea Fleet. The Russian Navy appeared to be moving on in announcing the successor Kalina class, which was to have air-independent propulsion systems (AIP). Russian experts argued that AIP would be ready by 2017-18, and the new submarines could be built relatively quickly after that. However, the Russian Navy recently announced, with quite a bit of fanfare, that it had ordered another six Improved Kilo class submarines for the Pacific Fleet. These are very good submarines, which undoubtedly be equipped with Kalibr cruise missiles that will give them a potent anti-ship and land-attack capability. But the implication of this announcement is that the Russian Navy does not expect to receive any of the new Kalina class submarines any time soon, and is therefore ordering the tried and true submarines to fill the gap.

    All in all, it seems that Russian shipbuilding is continuing to “tread water,” successfully building ships that it has already built in the past but having serious problems with delays in the new projects that were expected to form the core of the Russian Navy in the 2020s.

    https://russiamil.wordpress.com/2016/01/19/russian-shipbuilding-still-in-trouble/


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    wilhelm

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    Re: Russian Naval Shipbuilding Industry: News

    Post  wilhelm on Tue Feb 09, 2016 9:26 am

    It is clear that propulsion seems to be the major issue, something most are aware of considering the Ukrainian situation with regard to marine gas turbines, and which is being addressed if the announcements are anything to go by.

    Hopefully the next year or two will show results in that area, and hopefully it will be a lesson well learned.
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    magnumcromagnon

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    Re: Russian Naval Shipbuilding Industry: News

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Tue Feb 09, 2016 6:24 pm

    George1 wrote:Russian shipbuilding still in trouble

    A couple of recent announcements indicate that Russian shipbuilders are continuing to struggle with construction of new types of ships. First came the announcement, right at the end of 2015, that the commissioning of the Admiral Gorshkov frigate was being delayed for another year, until the end of 2016. At the same time, the navy announced that the Admiral Grigorovich frigate will be commissioned in the first quarter of 2016. It had previously been expected to be commissioned in May 2015, before being repeatedly pushed back. In addition, commissioning of the lead ship of the Alexandrit class (Project 12700) of minewsweepers has been pushed back yet again, to May 2016. It was originally planned to be in the fleet back in 2013. And sea trials of the Ivan Gren amphibious ship were also delayed until the first quarter of 2016. As a result, in 2015 the Russian Navy received no new blue water surface ships.

    On the other hand, it lost the services of several ships, including the Steregushchiy corvette that suffered a fire in April and both Neustrashimyi class frigates. The latter ships are waiting to be overhauled at Yantar shipyard, but the overhaul will take a long time since Ukraine will not supply replacement engines for the ships. The lack of engines will delay construction on most of the larger classes of surface ships, including Project 22350 (Admiral Gorshkov class hulls 3-4), Project 11356 (Admiral Gorshkov class hulls 4-6), and Project 20385 (Stereguschiy class variant, replaced by Project 20380 with less reliable Russian-built engines).

    Submarine construction may seem better on the surface, with the commissioning of two Improved Kilo class ((Project 636) diesel submarines and the return to active service in 2015 of the Akula class submarine Gepard and the Sierra class submarine Pskov after length overhauls. While there is no doubt that Russian submarine construction is in much better shape than the construction of ocean-going surface ships, there are problems here as well. First of all, despite being commissioned back in 2013, the Severodvinsk SSN remains in sea trials for the third year.

    But more importantly, development of a new class of diesel-electric submarines appears to be in trouble. Problems with propulsion systems have long delayed commissioning of the lead vessel of the Lada class, resulting in the decision taken several years ago to build six Improved Kilo class submarines for the Black Sea Fleet. The Russian Navy appeared to be moving on in announcing the successor Kalina class, which was to have air-independent propulsion systems (AIP). Russian experts argued that AIP would be ready by 2017-18, and the new submarines could be built relatively quickly after that. However, the Russian Navy recently announced, with quite a bit of fanfare, that it had ordered another six Improved Kilo class submarines for the Pacific Fleet. These are very good submarines, which undoubtedly be equipped with Kalibr cruise missiles that will give them a potent anti-ship and land-attack capability. But the implication of this announcement is that the Russian Navy does not expect to receive any of the new Kalina class submarines any time soon, and is therefore ordering the tried and true submarines to fill the gap.

    All in all, it seems that Russian shipbuilding is continuing to “tread water,” successfully building ships that it has already built in the past but having serious problems with delays in the new projects that were expected to form the core of the Russian Navy in the 2020s.

    https://russiamil.wordpress.com/2016/01/19/russian-shipbuilding-still-in-trouble/

    ...So were back to citing Dmitry Gorenburg now lol? lol1
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Russian Naval Shipbuilding Industry: News

    Post  PapaDragon on Tue Feb 09, 2016 6:36 pm


    lol1

    First we have this:

    ....On the other hand, it lost the services of several ships, including the Steregushchiy corvette that suffered a fire in April and both Neustrashimyi class frigates. The latter ships are waiting to be overhauled at Yantar shipyard, but the overhaul will take a long time since Ukraine will not supply replacement engines for the ships. ...

    And then in the very same paragraph we have this:

    ...The lack of engines will delay construction on most of the larger classes of surface ships, including Project 22350 (Admiral Gorshkov class hulls 3-4), Project 11356 (Admiral Gorshkov class hulls 4-6), and Project 20385 (Stereguschiy class variant, replaced by Project 20380 with less reliable Russian-built engines)....

    So Russian engines are "less reliable" than Ukrainian engines that just happen to have tendency to spontaneously combust?  Suspect

    My advice: stick with the shitty no good less reliable Russian engines and leave amazing super awesome Ukrainian engines to next set of morons willing to pay money for something that will turn their entire fleet of ships into real life metaphor of Ukrainian nation.

    As for Severodvinsk, it may be on trials but it is only ship of it's class and is needed to get data for Yasen-M vessels that are being built now. And I am sure that, even while on "trials", it is more than capable of dumping it's entire load of Kalibrs on Saudi oil fields at the moments notice... You can kill that entire country that way without actually killing a single person.  Twisted Evil
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russian Naval Shipbuilding Industry: News

    Post  GarryB on Wed Feb 10, 2016 9:21 am

    you can talk about problems with Ukrainian made components holding up production, but at the end of the day when current model Corvettes can attack land targets 1,500km away and hit them with such precision that conventional warheads can be used rather than small nukes, I think that speaks for itself... the Kirov class battle cruisers have never had that capability, though with upgrades that can be added.

    Those same corvettes can carry Onyx supersonic anti ship missiles and will soon be able to carry Zircon hypersonic anti ship missiles in their UKSK launchers... 8 tube launchers making them able to carry the same main armament of a Sovremmeny Destroyer or a Udaloy class anti sub destroyer.

    The Frigates... when they come on line have the firepower of a Sov and a Udaloy... they can carry 8 Onyx and 8 equivalents of the anti sub SS-N-14 silex missiles in the Klub family in vertical launch tubes... still just a frigate.

    The reality is that the numbers of vessels really doesn't show the reality of the situation... it would be like looking at the thousands of piston engined propeller driven fighters in 1945 and comparing that with the number of jet powered aircraft in 1955... rather less jets, but those older planes wouldn't stand a chance against the jets.


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    RedJasmin

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    Re: Russian Naval Shipbuilding Industry: News

    Post  RedJasmin on Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:41 am

    My view is that there are various issues all piling up which have conspired to squash shipbuilding for the last two decades.

    1. Aging talent. Similar to in the aerospace and other high skill engineering sectors in Russia, the marine engineering sector has a serious issue with an ageing workforce, and a shortage of young high quality talent due the collapse in training regimes in the 90s, and the declining perceived status of engineering and other production sectors over better paying "new economy" jobs.

    2. Lost era. Disruption to the industry caused by the Soviet collapse some design areas, particularly marine electronics and propulsion essentially had a "lost generation", missing out on developments like the azimuth pod thruster and the like.

    3. Mission. I often think part of the naval establishment feel they are in the Soviet Union and fighting the Cold War, and another part are trying to pull all the various assets together and seeing if they can form a cohesive modern vision out of it that answers specifically Russian needs. Until there is some consensus in the establishment about what the role of the navy should be, it's going to be hard for shipbuilders to plan ahead with some idea of what sort of orders they will be getting.





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    sepheronx

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    Re: Russian Naval Shipbuilding Industry: News

    Post  sepheronx on Thu Feb 11, 2016 2:07 am

    The defense industry employs over 600,000 people. And no, not all of them are old.  You are aware that plants like sukhoi has their own acadomy as well?

    Yeah, no.  Good job on copying whatever is said from western msm and possibly wikipedia.
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    Isos

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    Re: Russian Naval Shipbuilding Industry: News

    Post  Isos on Thu Feb 11, 2016 2:18 pm

    sepheronx wrote:The defense industry employs over 600,000 people. And no, not all of them are old.  You are aware that plants like sukhoi has their own acadomy as well?

    Yeah, no.  Good job on copying whatever is said from western msm and possibly wikipedia.

    They lack specialists not workforce. It's easy to form a 20 years old guy to do a specials task but harder to form an ingeneer that will lead a team about the new generation of tanks, ships, jet ...
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    sepheronx

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    Re: Russian Naval Shipbuilding Industry: News

    Post  sepheronx on Thu Feb 11, 2016 2:20 pm

    And yet there doesnt seem to be that much evidence to support that theory, seeing as how Russia is not only coming up with new systems, but state of the art.

    Armata tank, T-50, Gorshkov, Borei, etc.  All new designs.

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    Re: Russian Naval Shipbuilding Industry: News

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