Russian MRLS: Grad, Uragan, Smerch, Tornado-G/S

eridan wrote:What's the deal with Tornado-U? Some times ago one could read that it was the platform of choice for 220mm rockets, to replace older Uragans.

But for some years now it seems to be it's only the new Uragan 1M platform that's replacing the older Uragan vehicles. And Tornado-S is not to be seen...

For the Tornado-S, like the 300V there is planned to be 4 brigades (one per district). Presently there are 2 with Smerch and 2 with Uragan. One or possibly both of the Smerch's have upgraded to Tornado-S while one of the Uragan units (232nd) is in the process now. As for the Uragan units in the Artillery brigades, still not a lot of upgrading although the military say they will be.

eridan wrote:What's the deal with Tornado-U? Some times ago one could read that it was the platform of choice for 220mm rockets, to replace older Uragans.

But for some years now it seems to be it's only the new Uragan 1M platform that's replacing the older Uragan vehicles. And Tornado-S is not to be seen...

Uragan 1M and Tornado S are the same chassis with modular rocket pallets

Tornado-S with 300mm Rocket Pallets



Uragan-1M with 220mm Rocket Pallets

That is the Uragan 1M which can fire both rocket types while the new Tornado S looks similar to the old Smerch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNoRTPhsEI0

Weather station?

Just a guess but I would say a direction finder either using IIR sensors or microphones to track hot objects like artillery rounds, or noise making objects like artillery rounds...

Could also be a laser detector to detect if the vehicle is being marked by laser for targeting or to get range... but I suspect most likely audio sensor detecting the direction of enemy artillery fire... shell impacts and shells in flight.

According to sources (like TASS) this two fellows will be used to lay smart minefields at Zapad-21.

The Uragan 1M does not appear to be going anywhere with the Russian Army. I wonder if perhaps the Kamaz 6560M prototype on the right will be utilized with a 6-round 300mm Smerch rocket pod interchangeable with a 12 or 15-round 220mm Uragan rocket pod to replace the old Uragan's.

https://t.me/bmpd_cast/9831

The Far East will be reinforced with high-precision rocket artillery. The Eastern Military District will receive unique super-heavy multiple launch rocket systems Tornado-S. The novelty is considered one of the most dangerous artillery systems in the world. "Tornado-S" is capable of simultaneously in real time to destroy both single targets and cover areas of hundreds of hectares. Due to its high maneuverability, the system can be quickly deployed to any region of the Far East or to other directions, experts say.

Full article: https://iz-ru.translate.goog/1255347/roman-kretcul-aleksei-ramm/delo-tochnoe-vostochnyi-voennyi-okrug-poluchit-tornado-s?_x_tr_sl=ru&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=nui

NOTE: this will officially complete the transfer of the 4 Military District Artillery Rocket brigades to the Tornado-S system.

Yandex translation:

Glad to see the Russians expanding their agricultural sector

So with the Agriculture there is 50 launch tubes for the 122mm rockets, which is 10 better than standard Grad 122mm.

The pallets shown above have six tubes for each pallet for the 300mm rockets but two pallets would be carried on the heavy vehicles so 12 rockets for the Smerch replacement which also carried 12 rockets too.

The 220mm rocket pallet has 15 launch tubes and with two pallets on the heavy trucks that is 30 rockets per vehicle... which is rather more than the normal Uragan with, I seem to remember 16 launch tubes per vehicle.

Does anyone have any images of the 122mm rocket pallet that can be carried on the small and heavy pallet carrying trucks?

I thought it might be that 15 tube pallet but that seems to be the 220mm Uragan rockets instead... on that model it is pretty clear the 6 rocket tube pallet is the 300mm pallet, while the 15 tube pallet is not as small as a 122mm weapon pallet.

Rasisuki Nebia wrote:Glad to see the Russians expanding their agricultural sector

harvesting souls

GarryB wrote:So with the Agriculture there is 50 launch tubes for the 122mm rockets, which is 10 better than standard Grad 122mm.

The pallets shown above have six tubes for each pallet for the 300mm rockets but two pallets would be carried on the heavy vehicles so 12 rockets for the Smerch replacement which also carried 12 rockets too.

The 220mm rocket pallet has 15 launch tubes and with two pallets on the heavy trucks that is 30 rockets per vehicle... which is rather more than the normal Uragan with, I seem to remember 16 launch tubes per vehicle.

Does anyone have any images of the 122mm rocket pallet that can be carried on the small and heavy pallet carrying trucks?

I thought it might be that 15 tube pallet but that seems to be the 220mm Uragan rockets instead... on that model it is pretty clear the 6 rocket tube pallet is the 300mm pallet, while the 15 tube pallet is not as small as a 122mm weapon pallet.

ISDM Agriculture is a mine layer. Not a MLRS.

franco wrote: For the Tornado-S, like the 300V there is planned to be 4 brigades (one per district). Presently there are 2 with Smerch and 2 with Uragan. One or possibly both of the Smerch's have upgraded to Tornado-S while one of the Uragan units (232nd) is in the process now. As for the Uragan units in the Artillery brigades, still not a lot of upgrading although the military say they will be.  

So eventually what will Russia's conventional rocket force look like? Smerch, Uragan and Iskander along with a few long range cruise missiles?

Smerch and Uragan are rocket artillery, Iskander and cruise missiles are in different units

ISDM Agriculture is a mine layer. Not a MLRS.

True, but the rocket tubes look the same as the Grad rocket tubes... same calibre and similar length... there is potential to reduce costs by unifying designs and making more modular systems.

Imagine a force of trucks that can swap between mine laying and artillery support by changing the rocket pallet loaded on it at the time.... emergency support artillery, and the ability to quickly lay minefields when needed.

Having a situation where perhaps enemy armour is forming up somewhere with your armour approaching you could use rocket mine laying to lay mines on their main routes of escape to start with and then fire anti armour rockets at their positions... in a sense they can already do this with sensor fused top attack munitions that revert to belly attack mines if they reach the ground without detecting a target...

So eventually what will Russia's conventional rocket force look like? Smerch, Uragan and Iskander along with a few long range cruise missiles?

Their rocket artillery and theatre missile systems are not combined and operate separately, but I would expect now the INF treaty is gone they will start to employ ground launched 4,500km range cruise missiles and likely Iskander replacements with sramjet propulsion which should greatly improve range and speed too.

The rocket artillery would be more focused on engaging conventional armour and ground forces including SAM sites and forward airfields within range, but the hypersonic missiles and cruise missiles would focus on command and control centres as well as communication centres and HQs and rear area weapon storage positions... pretty much what they used them for in Syria.

GarryB wrote:The rocket artillery would be more focused on engaging conventional armour and ground forces including SAM sites and forward airfields within range, but the hypersonic missiles and cruise missiles would focus on command and control centres as well as communication centres and HQs and rear area weapon storage positions... pretty much what they used them for in Syria.

So rocket force will comprise of just Smerch and Uragan?

The main point of the ISDM (and the TOS-2) is that the MRLS unit doesn´t have to switch all the time between what is does best (f...ing large troop/vehicle concentrations) and "supporting" roles like planting mines or destroying fortifications with thermobaric warheads. The new systems add to the firepower of a regiment/brigade.

But I was thinking the same, modify the Tornado-G so it can be fitted with 2 of these packages of launch tubes. Easy and fast to re-load. On the other hand this tubes are loaded in the supply unit. The advantage of the current model (single-handedly reloaded tubes) is that they can be quit quickly re-loaded with different purpose rockets, if the regiment/brigade HQ decides that the MRLS unit is needed as support for the minelayers or for anti-tank purposes. In that instance they have to keep a lot of pre-packed tubes close to the launcher.

RTN wrote:

GarryB wrote:The rocket artillery would be more focused on engaging conventional armour and ground forces including SAM sites and forward airfields within range, but the hypersonic missiles and cruise missiles would focus on command and control centres as well as communication centres and HQs and rear area weapon storage positions... pretty much what they used them for in Syria.

So rocket force will comprise of just Smerch and Uragan?

Rocket (or reactive) artillery is part of the artillery. Just like most of the ATGM systems, by the way.

Currently there are Grad and the modernised version Tornado-G (122mm systems) + Smerch and it´s modernised version Tornado-S (300mm). There are still a lot of the good old Uragan (220mm) in use. There is a new version of that, Uragan-1M, with changeable pallets of rockets with different calibres, but no news if this will be deployed or not.

Grad/Tornado-G have different rockets, there is a new one with a range of 40km but also one with a range of only 20km but larger payload (= explosvies).
Smerch/Torando-S received a new GLONASS-guided rocket (in fact a missile) with a range of 120km. A version with optical seeker is in development, a new missile will increase the range to 200km.

There is some news about two new systems, called Tsiklon (Cyclone). A light version (122mm) with a range of 70km and a heavy version (300mm) with a range of up to 300km.

The ballistic and cruise missiles of the Iskander system are organised into separate brigades (just like Smerch/Tornado-S). A follow-on system is id development. The current system could also be modified to use the Kaliber-M cruise missile with a range of 4.500km if NATO insists on it.

Yandexed!

Hole wrote:

RTN wrote:

GarryB wrote:The rocket artillery would be more focused on engaging conventional armour and ground forces including SAM sites and forward airfields within range, but the hypersonic missiles and cruise missiles would focus on command and control centres as well as communication centres and HQs and rear area weapon storage positions... pretty much what they used them for in Syria.

So rocket force will comprise of just Smerch and Uragan?

Rocket (or reactive) artillery is part of the artillery. Just like most of the ATGM systems, by the way.

Currently there are Grad and the modernised version Tornado-G (122mm systems) + Smerch and it´s modernised version Tornado-S (300mm). There are still a lot of the good old Uragan (220mm) in use. There is a new version of that, Uragan-1M, with changeable pallets of rockets with different calibres, but no news if this will be deployed or not.

Grad/Tornado-G have different rockets, there is a new one with a range of 40km but also one with a range of only 20km but larger payload (= explosvies).
Smerch/Torando-S received a new GLONASS-guided rocket (in fact a missile) with a range of 120km. A version with optical seeker is in development, a new missile will increase the range to 200km.

There is some news about two new systems, called Tsiklon (Cyclone). A light version (122mm) with a range of 70km and a heavy version (300mm) with a range of up to 300km.

The ballistic and cruise missiles of the Iskander system are organised into separate brigades (just like Smerch/Tornado-S). A follow-on system is id development. The current system could also be modified to use the Kaliber-M cruise missile with a range of 4.500km if NATO insists on it.

They are also working on an upgraded Uragan rocket. No info on such.

Hole wrote:Rocket (or reactive) artillery is part of the artillery. Just like most of the ATGM systems, by the way.

Currently there are Grad and the modernised version Tornado-G (122mm systems) + Smerch and it´s modernised version Tornado-S (300mm). There are still a lot of the good old Uragan (220mm) in use. There is a new version of that, Uragan-1M, with changeable pallets of rockets with different calibres, but no news if this will be deployed or not.

Grad/Tornado-G have different rockets, there is a new one with a range of 40km but also one with a range of only 20km but larger payload (= explosvies).
Smerch/Torando-S received a new GLONASS-guided rocket (in fact a missile) with a range of 120km. A version with optical seeker is in development, a new missile will increase the range to 200km.

There is some news about two new systems, called Tsiklon (Cyclone). A light version (122mm) with a range of 70km and a heavy version (300mm) with a range of up to 300km.

The ballistic and cruise missiles of the Iskander system are organised into separate brigades (just like Smerch/Tornado-S). A follow-on system is id development. The current system could also be modified to use the Kaliber-M cruise missile with a range of 4.500km if NATO insists on it.

So the ballistic and cruise missiles of the Iskander system will also be a part of the Russian Army's rocket artillery?

RTN wrote:
So the ballistic and cruise missiles of the Iskander system will also be a part of the Russian Army's rocket artillery?

Pretty sure that's a yes. I believe the US also classify the M270, M142, ATACMS, and developing missiles as part of the Army's Field Artillery Branch?

The Iskander brigades are subordinated to the Joint Strategic Commands/Military Districts for direct support of the armies. Not to the Strategic Rocket Forces.

If you think of it as a level thing... troops on the front line wont be too worried about targets 90 to 120km away, but they will be worried about the troops or armour formations forming up to attack them that are 10, 15 or 20km away.

In which case the 122mm Grad would be the vehicle supporting them and they can use that out to about 40km with some rockets.

Interestingly the sensor fused top attack munitions for killing tanks and armoured vehicles fits two munitions per 122mm rocket which can reach to 30km.

A Grad vehicle has 40 launch tubes so that is 80 top attack anti armour munitions with a flight range of 30km.

Incidentally the old 9M22U Grad rocket with the single 18.4kg rocket has a range of 20km, but the newer 9M521 has a 21kg HE warhead and a range of 40km, while the 9M522 has the heavy 25kg warhead but its warhead separates in flight so the reduced drag means it can reach 37.5km despite having a bigger warhead.

The 9M217 is the sensor fused top attack munition with two munitions per rocket and 30km range, while the other standard rocket is the 9M218 which has just dumb HEAT submunitions and a range of 30km. The 9M218 makes up for lack of guidance by having 45 munitions in each rocket.

The interesting thing is the 300mm Smerch rockets the 9N152 rockets, which are the top attack submunition warheads are carried in loads of 5 per rocket, which means the Grad can launch a volley of 40 x 2 = 80 per vehicle, while the Smerch fires 12 x 5 = 60 per vehicle.

Obviously the Smerch can launch them three times further, and of course the Smerch rocket with the HEAT bomblets for top attack (unguided) each carries 646 bomblets per rocket, so Grad launches 45 x 40 = 1800 top attack unguided bomblets per vehicle volley to 30km , while Smerch can launch 646 x 12 = 7752 bomblets to 90km.

Now line up 6 vehicles and launch a volley and you can see why they are considered so useful.

The different sized longer ranged rockets become more relevant at higher levels... when you get to 450km range Iskander in many ways you could use that to attack targets deep in the enemy rear without having to risk helicopters or attack aircraft.

A well defended target might warrant launching several Iskanders to defeat air defence capability before aircraft go in to finish the job.

These weapons are artillery and not strategic as such.