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    Project 955: Borei class SSBN

    Russian Patriot
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    Post  Russian Patriot Tue Sep 06, 2011 8:52 pm

    First Borey class nuclear sub to be assigned to Pacific Fleet in 2011

    RIA Novosti

    18:48 05/09/2011 CHEREPOVETS (Central Russia), September 5 (RIA Novosti) - Russia's first Borey class strategic submarine will be put into service with the Pacific Fleet in 2011, Prime Minister Vladimir Putin said on Monday.

    The Yury Dolgoruky, which has recently completed sea trials in the White Sea, is expected to be commissioned by the Russian Navy pending the outcome of Bulava ballistic missile testing.

    "The submarine is successfully undergoing trials. It should be delivered to the Pacific Fleet this year," Putin said at a meeting with United Russia activists.

    On August 27, the Yury Dolgoruky conducted a successful launch of a Bulava missile at a range of 9,100 kilometers (about 5,650 miles).

    Three other Borey class nuclear submarines, the Alexander Nevsky, the Vladimir Monomakh, and Svyatitel Nikolai (St. Nicholas) are in different stages of completion. Russia is planning to build eight of these subs by 2015.

    Putin said on Monday that the government had allocated 4.7 trillion rubles ($160 bln) for the modernization of the Russian Navy until 2020.

    http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/russia/2011/russia-110905-rianovosti02.htm
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    Post  Russian Patriot Sat Dec 03, 2011 6:52 pm

    Russia to start construction of Borey-A class nuclear subs in 2012

    Russia will start building modernized Borey-A class strategic nuclear-powered submarines in 2012, the Sevmash shipyard said.

    Fourth-generation Borey class submarines are expected to constitute the core of Russia's modern strategic submarine fleet. Russia is planning to build eight Borey and Borey-A class subs by 2020.

    “We will lay down the first modernized Borey-A class submarine next year,” Sevmash General Director Andrei Dyachkov said on Friday in an exclusive interview with RIA Novosti.

    Dyachkov said the contracts on the construction of two more Borey-A class submarines would be signed in the Q1 of 2012.

    The official did not specify the differences between the Borey and Borey-A class submarines, but it was reported earlier by some Russian military sources that modifications could include major structural changes and the installation of four more missile launch tubes.

    Three Borey class vessels, the Yury Dolgoruky, the Alexander Nevsky, and the Vladimir Monomakh, are in different stages of completion at Sevmash.

    The Yury Dolgoruky has recently completed all sea trials and is expected to enter service with the Russian Navy as soon as the Bulava ballistic missile successfully passes the final tests.

    A Borey class strategic submarine is 170 meters (580 feet) long, has a hull diameter of 13 meters (42 feet), a crew of 107, including 55 officers, a maximum depth of 450 meters (about 1,500 feet) and a submerged speed of about 29 knots. It can carry up to 16 ballistic missiles with multiple warheads.

    http://www.en.ria.ru/mlitary_news/20111203/169263294.html


    Now what is this Borey A modification?
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    Post  GarryB Sat Dec 03, 2011 11:51 pm

    The original Borey class sub was built from sections of previous subs and so was a bit of a frankensteins monster.

    Of course it was made from existing sections of submarines... it is not like it is stitched together cars and buses... the subs it was formed from were sleek and efficient designs.

    The plan however is to unify the hull forms of submarines.. along with propulsion and systems with the armament differing based on the role of the sub, so SSBNs will carry strategic ballistic missiles, while SSN and SSGN will be combined with attack subs having UKSK tubes added to allow anti ship, anti sub, land attack, or strategic missions to be performed using Oniks, Klub, Klub or Brahmos, or Kh-102/101 long range cruise missiles.
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    Post  Russian Patriot Fri Feb 10, 2012 1:03 am

    Russia�s Bulava-Carrying Subs to Enter Service in Summer

    RIA Novosti

    19:42 09/02/2012 MOSCOW, February 9 (RIA Novosti) - Russia’s newest nuclear-powered submarines, the Yury Dolgoruky and the Alexander Nevsky, will be put into operation in the summer, Defense Minister Anatoly Serdyukov said on Thursday.

    The Yury Dolgoruky will enter service in June and the Alexander Nevsky in August, he said.

    The Borey-class subs will be armed with Bulava intercontinental ballistic missiles but Serdyukov did not say exactly when the troubled missile will enter service.

    The Yury Dolgoruky’s construction began in 1996 at the Sevmash shipyard and was completed in 2008. It has a crew of 130 and will be armed with 16 Bulava SLBMs and six SS-N-15 cruise missiles.

    President Dmitry Medvedev said in late December that the flight tests of the Bulava SLBM were completed and it will now be adopted for service with the Russian Navy.

    Russia successfully test launched two Bulava missiles on December 23.

    They were the 18th and 19th test launches of the troubled Bulava. Only 11 launches have been officially declared successful.

    But some analysts suggest that in reality the number of failures is considerably larger. Russian military expert Pavel Felgenhauer said that of the Bulava's first 12 test launches, only one was entirely successful.

    Despite several previous failures officially blamed on manufacturing faults, the Russian military has insisted that there is no alternative to the Bulava.

    The Bulava (SS-NX-30) SLBM, developed by the Moscow Institute of Thermal Technology (since 1998), carries up to 10 MIRV warheads and has a range of over 8,000 kilometers (5,000 miles). The three-stage ballistic missile is designed for deployment on Borey-class nuclear submarines.

    http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/russia/2012/russia-120209-rianovosti02.htm
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    Post  GarryB Fri Feb 10, 2012 1:24 am

    But some analysts suggest that in reality the number of failures is considerably larger. Russian military expert Pavel Felgenhauer said that of the Bulava's first 12 test launches, only one was entirely successful.

    Why do they keep quoting that asshat.

    He is about as credible a Russian military expert as Tom Clancy... only much more anti Russian.

    The guy works for the Jamestown institute... that is so right wing pro US that even Ronald Reagan would blush at some of their propaganda...
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    Post  TR1 Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:35 am

    lol oh Pasha Pasha Pasha.....I still remember him gloating and predicting the might of the Georgian armed forces....he has been awful quiet about that ever since the Georgians pulled a "tactical withdrawl".
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    Post  GarryB Fri Feb 10, 2012 5:16 am

    But of course you know the real truth was that it was a full scale Russian invasion with 1 million Russian troops rolling through South Ossetia on their way to Georgian oil pipelines...

    The brave heroic Georgians managed to put together a force of 17,000 brave souls in just over 3 hours and managed to push those Ruskies all the way back to the capital city of South Ossetia... which was so full of Russians that they had to shell the entire city... there were so many targets they didn't even need to aim their guns and rockets... they just had to keep firing.

    Recognising the superiority of the western training and battle management equipment the underhanded Russians had to resort to threats of the use of nuclear weapons... in the face of such insanity Georgia could only withdraw skillfully and with speed to avoid the violent use of unreasonable force all the western countries were accusing Russia of from day one of the conflict...

    NOT. Twisted Evil
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    Post  Russian Patriot Sat Apr 14, 2012 10:48 pm

    A contract to build Borey class submarines, the most costly of the 2012 state defense orders, faces delays over pricing, the Kommersant daily said on Saturday citing shipbuilding and defense sources.

    “The defense ministry is again dissatisfied with the price substantiation, so the signing of the contract is ruled out in the near future,” a source in the shipbuilding industry told Kommersant.

    According to the paper, Russia's United Shipbuilding Corporation (USC) said one submarine will cost about 26 billion rubles ($878,000), or about 130 billion rubles ($4.4 billion) in total.

    A defense ministry source said “the manufacturers still want to sell it at an unjustifiably high price,” while shipbuilders say such prices would barely allow them to make any profit.

    In line with the revised state armament procurement program, the Russian Navy is to receive at least 10 new Borey class strategic nuclear submarines until 2020.

    Yuri Dolgoruky strategic nuclear submarine: characteristics



    Project 955: Borei class SSBN - Page 2 164490784







    Dmitry Rogozin, the deputy prime minister in charge of the defense industry, said earlier this week he was uncertain that the agreement will be reached on all state defense orders for 2012 before the April 15 deadline.

    He said that price is still being negotiated on some objects on the list that require a production period of five-seven years, for example those intended for the Air Force and the Navy.

    http://www.en.ria.ru/mlitary_news/20120414/172815721.html
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    Post  George1 Thu Apr 19, 2012 10:51 pm

    http://english.ruvr.ru/2012_04_19/72241259/

    Russian nuclear submarines Yuri Dolgorukiy and Alexander Nevsky to enter service

    Russian nuclear submarine Yury Dolgorukiy of the Project 955 is planned to enter service before June 15, the second submarine of the same project is planned to enter service in August.

    “Bulava” missiles are entering service as scheduled, Russian minister of defense Anatoly Sukhorukov said to journalists. He added that Yuri Dolgorukiy and Alexander Nevsky trials weren’t done on time.

    Borei class submarines to be massively produced

    Russian ministry of defense is planning to sign a contract on producing Borei class submarine, the deputy minister of defense Anatoly Sukhorukov said to media. Borei class submarines accommodate “Bulava” missiles.
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    Post  flamming_python Tue Apr 24, 2012 12:36 am

    TR1 wrote:lol oh Pasha Pasha Pasha.....I still remember him gloating and predicting the might of the Georgian armed forces....he has been awful quiet about that ever since the Georgians pulled a "tactical withdrawl".

    You know what - I would pay money to read one of those pre-war articles by him again Very Happy
    Could use a giggle.
    Sadly I can't find any.
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    Post  George1 Tue Apr 24, 2012 2:04 am

    Russia to Build 5 Nuc Subs with 20 SLBMs Bulava Each

    Five Project 955A Borei strategic submarines armed with increased number of nuclear ballistic missiles will be constructed under a contract to be tied between Russian Defense Ministry and United Shipbuilding Corporation (USC). Each of them will be capable to carry 20 submarine-launched ballistic missiles (SLBMs), said a source in Russian Government's military industrial committee.

    "The contract can be signed even this April", the source told Interfax. "However, the subscription will be possible only if defense ministry presents detailed conclusion on each item of price offer earlier drawn by the industry, particularly, Sevmash shipyard", he added.

    He reminded that "on Apr 14 Russian vice premier Dmitry Rogozin controlling defense industry tasked defense ministry to give such detailed conclusion on all price parameters of Borei-class strategic submarines.

    So far, the ministry has not done that but promised to make reply within a month.

    According to the source, if the military replies in the last decade of April, Rogozin will hold a meeting with representatives of defense ministry and USC and settle all problematic issues of the state contract.

    "The question is a shipbuilding contract for five Project 955A Borei strategic subs with enhanced nuclear missile arms. At least 50 percent of onboard systems are crucially new and have no analogs in national shipbuilding", explained the source. "The contract cost exceeds RUR 100 bln", he specified. Russian Navy Main HQ earlier reported that batch-produced Project 955A Borei strategic subs (beginning fr om the fourth SSBN Svyatitel Nikolai) would carry 20 SLBMs Bulava instead of 16 missiles designed for the first three submarines. Reportedly, it is planned to build 8 subs of this project.

    According to Sevmash, works on Svyatitel Nikolai are already in progress, although there was no official keel-laying ceremony and the shipyard has not received money for construction.

    Deputy defense minister Alexander Sukhorukov said that the draft contract for Borei subs had been ready and "would be sent to the shipyard for subscription probably in this week, perhaps today or tomorrow".

    At present, Russia operates Delfin-class nuclear-powered ballistic missile submarines. Each of them carries 16 SLBM Sineva.

    In accordance with START-3, Russia and the US lim ited amount of deployed intercontinental ballistic missiles (ICBMs) and nuclear warheads without restriction of platform type. Increasing number of ballistic missiles on Borei-class submarines means that Russia is shifting to sea-based strategic nuclear weapons more than it was initially planned.

    American Ohio-class SSBNs carry 24 Trident-II ballistic missiles each.

    Recall that Russia had only one class of submarines armed with 20 ballistic missiles – Project 941 Akula. Currently, subs of this kind are not used in combat patrols.
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    Post  GarryB Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:51 am

    In accordance with START-3, Russia and the US lim ited amount of deployed intercontinental ballistic missiles (ICBMs) and nuclear warheads without restriction of platform type. Increasing number of ballistic missiles on Borei-class submarines means that Russia is shifting to sea-based strategic nuclear weapons more than it was initially planned.

    This is interesting because it might be a play by the Russians to say... if you want to continue with your missile shield we will calculate the "warhead value" of your defence and increase our warhead numbers by that amount... ie if we think your ABM systems can shoot down 50 of our warheads we will add 50 warheads to out inventory.

    Note that while the Ohios actually carried 24 missiles they only had 8 warheads per missile loaded which gave them a total of 192 warheads, while the Akula (Typhoon) carried fewer actual missiles (20) each missile had more warheads (10), and had 200 warheads in total.

    I rather suspect the move to 20 missiles is probably so they can reduce the number of warheads per missile and greatly increase the penetration aides and decoys on board plus of course the chance to MARV the warheads... which makes them bigger too.
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    Post  Gagydza Tue Apr 24, 2012 4:32 pm

    Yep, the general idea is to increase the ammount of missiles able to deilver warheads into the US airspace bypassing the ABM shield in Europe. Worth mentioning that the first Borei subs are to be comissioned with the Pacific Fleet while those carrying 20 missiles are going to the Northern Fleet which is stationed in European part of Russia.
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    Post  GarryB Wed Apr 25, 2012 2:57 am

    That is interesting.

    Until the ABM system is operational they can use the extra warhead space for decoys... in fact the ABM system is designed to engage targets in space so that might be enough on its own as in the place of one warhead the missile can carry dozens of decoys, so an extra four missiles means the warhead number for each missile can be reduced by 3-4 warheads per missile which would mean hundreds of extra decoys.


    In space with no air friction objects move the same... it is like on the moon... if you drop a lead ball that weighs 1,000 tons and a feather they will both fall at the same rate and hit the moon surface at the same time if dropped at the same time from the same height. The impact of the lead ball however will do significantly more damage.

    Once in space the missiles will immediately deploy their warheads and decoys so simply making the decoys out of radar reflecting material that are basically shaped balloons so you can stack hundreds in the place of a single warhead and then put a balloon decoy around the real warheads so all the objects... warheads and decoys look the same and the ABM system will have problems.

    One plan would be to use a laser to heat each object in turn to see how much it affects their trajectory, but then a nuclear detonation above Europe high in the atmosphere and all radar and radio communication will be out of order for about 30 minutes...

    A fully operational American ABM system in Europe and you withdraw from the INF treaty and the new Start treaty and you make lots of cheap IRBMs and 'unsign' the export treaty that limits the sales of missile technology.
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    Post  George1 Wed May 02, 2012 11:18 pm

    SSBN Alexander Nevsky Laid Up at Sevmash Shipyard

    Defects revealed on Project 955 nuclear-powered ballistic missile submarine (SSBN) Alexander Nevsky during first phase of sea trials are being eliminated at Sevmash shipyard, reports the shipyard's press service.

    Docking of the submarine and further transfer to the 55-th workshop took 3 days and was held in severe ice conditions. Shipwrights, designers, and contractors will have to test all systems and prepare SSBN Alexander Nevsky for trials within quite short period. The next stage of trials will be resumed in summer.

    According to plans of United Shipbuilding Corporation, parent company of Sevmash shipyard, active sea trials of SSBN Alexander Nevsky will finish by the fall of 2012, and then the submarine will be presented to acceptance commission for further state trials. It is expected that the sub would launch two R-30 Bulava ballistic missiles in October or November. Upon those test launches are over, the acceptance certificate will be signed and SSBN Alexander Nevsky will be handed over to Russian Navy. The sub's commissioning is scheduled late in 2012 or early in 2013.
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    Post  TR1 Wed May 02, 2012 11:33 pm

    George1 wrote:SSBN Alexander Nevsky Laid Up at Sevmash Shipyard

    Defects revealed on Project 955 nuclear-powered ballistic missile submarine (SSBN) Alexander Nevsky during first phase of sea trials are being eliminated at Sevmash shipyard, reports the shipyard's press service.

    Docking of the submarine and further transfer to the 55-th workshop took 3 days and was held in severe ice conditions. Shipwrights, designers, and contractors will have to test all systems and prepare SSBN Alexander Nevsky for trials within quite short period. The next stage of trials will be resumed in summer.

    According to plans of United Shipbuilding Corporation, parent company of Sevmash shipyard, active sea trials of SSBN Alexander Nevsky will finish by the fall of 2012, and then the submarine will be presented to acceptance commission for further state trials. It is expected that the sub would launch two R-30 Bulava ballistic missiles in October or November. Upon those test launches are over, the acceptance certificate will be signed and SSBN Alexander Nevsky will be handed over to Russian Navy. The sub's commissioning is scheduled late in 2012 or early in 2013.

    What date are these news?

    Sounds old...
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    Post  George1 Wed May 02, 2012 11:34 pm

    http://rusnavy.com/news/navy/index.php?ELEMENT_ID=15055
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    Post  TR1 Wed May 02, 2012 11:40 pm

    Thanks for link, I found it curious because the small defects found during trials were reported a while ago, so its not exactly breaking news.
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    Post  George1 Fri May 25, 2012 10:23 am

    Defense Ministry to Sign Borei Contract on May 25

    Russian Defense Ministry and United Shipbuilding Corporation (USC) will sign a contract on Project 955 Borei strategic nuclear submarines for Russian Navy on May 25 in Severodvinsk, said a USC top-ranking spokesman on Tuesday.

    "The contract on construction of Borei-A and Yasen class submarines will be signed on Friday [May 25]", the insider told Interfax.

    According to him, prior to the contract signing on May 25, there will be an extended meeting on that problem with participation of representatives of Defense Ministry, Ministry of Trade and Industry, Rosoboronexport, and United Shipbuilding Corporation.

    The contract has not been signed so far due to contradictions over price between defense ministry and USC.

    On May 5, an official in governmental committee responsible for military shipbuilding said that defense minister Anatoly Serdiukov on Apr 27 was trying to tie a contract for five Project 955A Borei submarines. He brought the price stated by United Shipbuilding Corporation 29% down saying it was groundlessly overrated. Serdiukov invited the corporation's directors to sign the contract on May 2, but shipbuilders did not accept the invitation, obviously, being unsatisfied with the 30-percent price cutting.

    According to unofficial sources, USC wanted to make about RUR 130 bln for construction of five Borei-class subs, i.e. somewhat RUR 26 bln per submarine. As for shipbuilders, that is a minimal price and would barely give any profit. On the contrary, the military say USC included non-production costs into the end item price.

    Earlier on, USC president Roman Trotsenko said the corporation would build 60 various ships for Russian Navy throughout 8 years, including six Project 885 Yasen nuclear submarines and Project 636 diesel electric subs.

    An insider in USC reported that Indian aircraft carrier INS Vikramaditya (former Admiral Gorshkov) modernized in Severodvinsk would take the sea for the first time on May 25.

    "As is planned, Vikramaditya will head out on May 25. Now the ship is being prepared for the trials", said the interviewee.

    As for him, the ship will pass "the whole range of sea trials".

    The USC spokesman confuted media reports that the carrier's trials would be allegedly postponed due to staff changes in Navy command.

    "There will be no delays. The date was agreed upon long ago and meets the working schedule in full. The aircraft carrier will be handed over to the client in accordance with the contract, on Indian Navy Day, December 4", emphasized the interviewee.

    Recall that the contract for modernization of Russian aircraft-carrying cruiser Admiral Flota Sovetskogo Soyuza Gorshkov was tied with India in 2004. The contract provided allocation of $974 mln for the ship's recovery and modernization, and $530 mln for sixteen fighters MiG-29K and deck-based ASW helicopters Ka-31 and Ka-27.

    In Jan 2007, India suspended payments on the contract. In Nov that year, Russia brought up a question about additional financing.

    After the visit of Russian president to India in Dec 2008, Indian government's security committee approved opening of price-revising negotiations. As for unofficial sources, now the contract value is about $2.3 bln.

    http://rusnavy.com/news/navy/index.php?ELEMENT_ID=15188
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    Post  George1 Fri Jun 08, 2012 5:28 am

    Lead Borei-Class Sub Takes Sea Today

    Project 955 Borei nuclear-powered ballistic missile submarine (SSBN) Yury Dolgoruky takes the sea today, on June 7 to perform checkup trials, a spokesman for Sevmash shipyard told reporters.

    "Nuclear submarine Yury Dolgoruky on June 7 will take the sea for the first time in this year. If trials are finished successfully, the sub will be commissioned at an early date", said the shipyard's official.

    As for him, the trial program does not include test launch of SLBM Bulava.

    This year, Bulava missile is planned to be launched by the next Borei-class sub, SSBN Alexander Nevsky. Once the test is successful, this submarine can be commissioned in this year, too.

    Earlier on, defense minister Anatoly Serdiukov and ex-commander of Russian Navy Admiral Vladimir Vysotsky announced SSBN Yury Dolgoruky and Bulava missile would be put in service in the fall of 2012.

    Strategic nuclear-powered submarine Yury Dolgoruky was designed by Rubin bureau (St. Petersburg) and is the lead sub in the series of fourth-generation ballistic missile submarines.

    SSBN Yury Dolgoruky was laid down at Sevmash shipyard on Nov 2, 1996. Being about 170 meters long, 13.5 meters wide and displacing 24,000 tons, the sub carries sixteen R-30 Bulava ballistic missiles designed by Moscow Thermotechnics Institute.

    Missiles of that type are capable to carry up to 10 nuclear independently targetable reentry vehicles with advanced performance characteristics. Firing range of Bulava is 8,000 km. Apart from ballistic missiles, the submarine is armed with 533-mm torpedo tubes. Nuclear powerplant propelling one water jet propulsor makes possible to accelerate up to 15 knots on surface and up to 29 knots under water.

    As for Russian Navy command's plans, Project 955 strategic submarines will become the key component of Russia's sea-based nuclear force since 2018, after decommission of currently operable Project 667BDRM and Project 667BDR submarines (Delfin and Calmar, known in NATO as Delta IV and Delta III respectively).

    http://rusnavy.com/news/navy/index.php?ELEMENT_ID=15299

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    Post  George1 Sun Jun 10, 2012 12:28 am

    SSBN Yury Dolgoruky Took Sea to Finish State Trials

    Project 955 Borei nuclear-powered ballistic missile submarine (SSBN) Yury Dolgoruky on June 7 headed for the White Sea to carry out closing phase of state acceptance trials, reported press service of Sevmash shipyard.

    As is expected, SSBN Yury Dolgoruky will be commissioned on the Russian Navy Day.

    Through over 70-year long history, Sevmash has built 45 surface ships and 163 submarines including 128 nuclear-powered ones.

    Currently, Sevmash shipyard is building two series of new-generation nuclear submarines.

    http://rusnavy.com/news/navy/index.php?ELEMENT_ID=15319
    George1
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    Post  George1 Tue Jun 26, 2012 1:16 am

    Borei-Class SSBN Yury Dolgoruky Joins Navy till July 29

    Project 955 Borei nuclear-powered ballistic missile submarine (SSBN) Yury Dolgoruky will be commissioned till July 29, said Russian Navy Commander-in-Chief Vice Admiral Viktor Chirkov on June 25 addressing the graduates honoring ceremony in the Konstantinovsky Palace, St. Petersburg.

    Also, Chirkov declared that missile system Bulava is technically ready to enter service; at present, documents required for legal commission of the missile are being prepared.

    As was earlier reported, Bulava was supposed to enter service along with SSBN Yury Dolgoruky.

    Nuclear-powered ballistic missile submarine Yury Dolgoruky (Project 955 Borei) was developed by Rubin Design Bureau (St. Petersburg) and is considered the lead fourth-generation sub.

    SSBN Yury Dolgoruky was laid down at Sevmash shipyard on Nov 2, 1996. Being about 170 meters long, 13.5 meters wide and displacing 24,000 tons, the submarine will carry 16 Bulava missiles designed by Moscow Thermotechnics Institute.
    SOC
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    Post  SOC Tue Jun 26, 2012 8:38 pm

    George1 wrote:Yury Dolgoruky will be commissioned till July 29

    DAMMIT. If they did it June 29th things would be more interesting. My next Jane's project is a look at the upgrades to Russian strategic nuclear forces, including the SSBN force and the ABM network. I'd hoped to be able to get imagery of the 955 out in the Far East.

    As I inevitably run into questions and conflicting information, I'll be sure to look here for clarification!
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    Post  GarryB Wed Jun 27, 2012 8:38 am

    Yes, I have had problems with the Russian military time table too... I wanted Mig-29SMTs and Mi-28Ns to be adopted in the 1990s, which would have cost a little bit of money, but would have resulted in a saving in money on maintainence and other areas for the Mig while securing funds for companies working on upgrades... with proper funding they would be rather further ahead than they are at the moment.

    The problem is clearly communication... their people simply don't want to converse with my people... perhaps you are having the same problem? Cool
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    Post  TR1 Sat Jul 14, 2012 5:00 am

    4th boat will called the Knyaz Vladimir.

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