Ukrainian nation

ultron wrote:Irrepairable. Ukraine will never join NATO because of disputed territory Crimea. US military bases will pop up all over Ukraine. Ukrainians will be brainwashed by Ukrainian state media to hate Russians forever. In about 100 years no Ukrainian will be able to speak Russian. Anyone who speaks Russian in Ukraine will be beaten to a bloody pulp by Right Sector.

It'll be like between North Korea and South Korea, only a lot worse.

Maybe. And the Ukrainians will just enjoy living like the North Koreans, as their economy is probably worst now than what North Koreans are.

ultron wrote:Irrepairable. Ukraine will never join NATO because of disputed territory Crimea. US military bases will pop up all over Ukraine. Ukrainians will be brainwashed by Ukrainian state media to hate Russians forever. In about 100 years no Ukrainian will be able to speak Russian. Anyone who speaks Russian in Ukraine will be beaten to a bloody pulp by Right Sector.

It'll be like between North Korea and South Korea, only a lot worse.

Welcome back, FV, and welcome to my ignore list. Your pontifications rank right up there with Yahoo News comments.

ultron wrote:Irrepairable. Ukraine will never join NATO because of disputed territory Crimea. US military bases will pop up all over Ukraine. Ukrainians will be brainwashed by Ukrainian state media to hate Russians forever. In about 100 years no Ukrainian will be able to speak Russian. Anyone who speaks Russian in Ukraine will be beaten to a bloody pulp by Right Sector.

It'll be like between North Korea and South Korea, only a lot worse.

lol what if in about 100 years no Ukrainian will be left in Ukraine but only ethnic Russian?

Project Canada wrote:

ultron wrote:Irrepairable. Ukraine will never join NATO because of disputed territory Crimea. US military bases will pop up all over Ukraine. Ukrainians will be brainwashed by Ukrainian state media to hate Russians forever. In about 100 years no Ukrainian will be able to speak Russian. Anyone who speaks Russian in Ukraine will be beaten to a bloody pulp by Right Sector.

It'll be like between North Korea and South Korea, only a lot worse.

lol what if in about 100 years no Ukrainian will be left in Ukraine but only ethnic Russian?

Doubt it, history of ukrainian civilisation lasts at least 40,000 years, so they have survived the worst episodes in history and will survive this russian invasion too.

Project Canada wrote:

ultron wrote:Irrepairable. Ukraine will never join NATO because of disputed territory Crimea. US military bases will pop up all over Ukraine. Ukrainians will be brainwashed by Ukrainian state media to hate Russians forever. In about 100 years no Ukrainian will be able to speak Russian. Anyone who speaks Russian in Ukraine will be beaten to a bloody pulp by Right Sector.

It'll be like between North Korea and South Korea, only a lot worse.

lol what if in about 100 years no Ukrainian will be left in Ukraine but only ethnic Russian?

There are no such thing as ethnic ukrainian, they are all entirely russians.

Werewolf wrote:

Project Canada wrote:

ultron wrote:Irrepairable. Ukraine will never join NATO because of disputed territory Crimea. US military bases will pop up all over Ukraine. Ukrainians will be brainwashed by Ukrainian state media to hate Russians forever. In about 100 years no Ukrainian will be able to speak Russian. Anyone who speaks Russian in Ukraine will be beaten to a bloody pulp by Right Sector.

It'll be like between North Korea and South Korea, only a lot worse.

lol what if in about 100 years no Ukrainian will be left in Ukraine but only ethnic Russian?

There are no such thing as ethnic ukrainian, they are all entirely russians.

Genetically they will be the same yes, and historically their ethnicity is russian too for the most part, but i do feel they have been separated from russia in a way that the ones who want to be ethnically 'ukrainian', have the choice to be. The mistake people make in the west is that they think russians and ukrainians are totally different either side of the border.

Rodinazombie wrote:

Werewolf wrote:

Project Canada wrote:

ultron wrote:Irrepairable. Ukraine will never join NATO because of disputed territory Crimea. US military bases will pop up all over Ukraine. Ukrainians will be brainwashed by Ukrainian state media to hate Russians forever. In about 100 years no Ukrainian will be able to speak Russian. Anyone who speaks Russian in Ukraine will be beaten to a bloody pulp by Right Sector.

It'll be like between North Korea and South Korea, only a lot worse.

lol what if in about 100 years no Ukrainian will be left in Ukraine but only ethnic Russian?

There are no such thing as ethnic ukrainian, they are all entirely russians.

Genetically they will be the same yes, and historically their ethnicity is russian too for the most part, but i do feel they have been separated from russia in a way that the ones who want to be ethnically 'ukrainian', have the choice to be. The mistake people make in the west is that they think russians and ukrainians are totally different either side of the border.

The whole "Ukraine" myth was created by the German general staff of WW1, and Ukraine's main purpose was to be a logistics hub for the Germans.

No, Ukrainians are not all just Russians. There is a lot of Polish, Slovak, Hungarian, Romanian and even Spanish (believe it or not)
blood in the western part. Back in 1000 AD there was exactly zero difference, but the last 1015 years have resulted in a rather
noticeable bifurcation. However, the south and east of Soviet-created Ukraine is actually ethnically Russian and should not be
treated as part of Ukraine. This region includes very old Greek communities and even Serbs who settled in the east over a
century ago.

There is no Ukraine there, there.

https://topwar.ru/149683-raschlenenie-ukrainy-konsorciuma-s-limitrofami-ne-poluchitsja.html

I mostly agree with him; at best, only small areas in W. & S. parts could be taken by Poland, Slovakia, Hungary, & Romania w/o endangering Russia's security.

kvs wrote:No, Ukrainians are not all just Russians.   There is a lot of Polish, Slovak, Hungarian, Romanian and even Spanish (believe it or not)
blood in the western part.   Back in 1000 AD there was exactly zero difference, but the last 1015 years have resulted in a rather
noticeable bifurcation.   However, the south and east of Soviet-created Ukraine is actually ethnically Russian and should not be
treated as part of Ukraine.  This region includes very old Greek communities and even Serbs who settled in the east over a
century ago.  

There is no Ukraine there, there.

And your claim on the Spaniards settling in the western Ukraine is based on what?

As much as I know Polish history, I never heard or read anything about it. They had more than enough land to settle in the New World and elsewhere, why would they ever come to western Ukraine?

I know that Vlachs (Romanians) settled in both Poland and Ukraine, and Hungarians used to live a long time ago in what is now Ukraine. I also read about the New Serbia.


Perhaps you think that the surname Bandera sounds Spanish? Actually, the word bandera in the Polish language means "naval ensign" and I think that a Polish origin of this surname is much more likely than Spanish. You should be able to check this in any Polish-English dictionary.

According to Google it says - "The traditional account presented in The Russian Primary Chronicle, it was founded by the Viking Oleg, ruler of Novgorod from about 879. In 882 he seized Smolensk and Kiev, and the latter city, owing to its strategic location on the Dnieper River, became the capital of Kievan Rus."

Does this mean a Russian founded the city or no?

It was ruled over by Askold and Dir, two Varangian brothers when Oleg came there and killed them. Then he made Kiev the new capital of Rus', taking over from Novgorod.

That was in the late 9th century. As for when the city was founded; well it was more of a large village and trading hub even when Oleg took it over, and it's impossible to say for sure - but some evidence points to there being a settlement there by the 700s

It's impossible to say for sure, as even before then, there is a lot of evidence for Iron Age cultures (Sarmatians, Goths) in the Kiev region, and before that even Bronze Age ones (Cucuteni–Trypillia, Thracians, proto-Slavs) and Neolithic ones.

I think that this history of slavery shapes the western attitude to Russians and Serbs. There is the sub-conscious expectation of submission.

Note that Sowell does not mention Ukrainians, because he is being objective. There was no Ukraine when southern Russians were being taken
as slaves.

Slavic-speaking Varangians now known as the Ukrainians are not really Slavs.



Besides, it was much more encompassing than that; for example, during the early medieval period Prague was a major center of slave trade, and I doubt that the people being traded there were Varangians/Ukrainians. The slave trade in Prague was run by the Jews, albeit Catholics and Muslims were also heavily involved in it in other parts of the world, as were the pagans.


http://michalw.narod.ru/SlavicSpain.html

When exactly did Ukrainians start to refer to themselves as Ukrainians instead of calling themselves Russians (Ruskie/Ruski narod)?

In the western Ukr heartland this was likely before 1800.   But in the case of Malorussia in the center, including Kiev, there was no such self-labelling in
1897 when they reported themselves as Malorussians in the census.  

Ukria is a Bolshevik construct resting on the precursor construct of the Austro-Hungarian Empire, which itself rests on the assimilation policies of the
Grand Duchy of Poland and Lithuania which annexed the western lands of Soviet delineated Ukraine centuries ago.    The western Ukrian dialect
was foisted on the population of Soviet Ukraine as if it was the self-evident one.   It should have been "surzhyk" which sounds more like Russian.
This linguistic reality persisted until the break up of the USSR.



The Bolsheviks also stapled on the ethnic Russian lands of Novorossiya, spanning from Odessa to the eastern side of the Dnepr Riiver,  to their
concocted republic using the excuse that Ukraine needed industrial capacity.   None of the local population was asked if they wanted to join Ukraine
and they certainly did not speak Ukrainian and consider themselves Ukrainian.

The key detail is that Ukraine was mostly depopulated after the Tatar-Mongol horde occupation which involved the razing of Kiev to the ground.  So
there was a settlement process afterwards and all the major cities in the south and east were founded by Russians.   They were not conquered and
there was no Russian "occupation" of this land.  

There was no such thing as Ukraine in 1200.   Kievn Rus was not any Ukraine and there was no such thing as a Kievan State.   A fabrication of
modern day western revisionists who are trying to fake up a Ukrainian ethnic state in 1100.   Basically parroting what Ukr ethno-fascist revisionists
do.   They claim that "Ukraine" adopted Christianity in the 980s and that Knyaz Vladimir was a Ukrainian.   That would be a surprise to him and
the rest of the people living there at the time.   None of the "beresti" (birch bark records using Slavic runes) refer to anything called Ukraine.
The name Ukraina is just a form of Okraina meaning border region.   It points to a derivative ethnicity reflecting the occupationhistory of first the
Tatar-Mongols and then Poland-Lithuania.   Western Ukraine is definitely a transition region.

There was no Ukraine, because the Varangians changed their name.


This map is incorrect, the Polish enclaves shown no longer exist.


They were either murdered off by the Ukrainian nationalists or repatriated to Poland.



https://www.thefirstnews.com/article/over-100000-slaughtered-with-axes-pitchforks-scythes-and-knives-the-wolyn-massacre-started-76-years-ago-today-and-lasted-for-two-years-6714

kvs, by any chance, do you by any chance know any good articles about the relationship between Ukrainian nationalism and Austria? May be in Russian or any language other than English.