Opinions on Socialism/Communism

Did You mean UAZ 469?
If You are talking about stock version then it's not good too. Weak unreliable engine, bad suspension, bad quality of bit newer models. That's why there UAZ 469 project models can be found even on year 20 old chasis, they last long. Same like with some cars, stock version is bad, but it's very good for modifications thats why their are still popular. Same Civic EK9 in Drag racing:) Stock is terrible, modification posibilities are endless.
But even older Nissan Patrol or Land cruiser 75 have better engines and more reliable if You want to go with stock. But most of the people modify their cars anyway.
I Didn't own any of them, only know that from friends offroaders.
Gaz-66 on other hand is a beast. They use this truck parts to build smaller vehicles. Very cheap and simple.
Still there is a saying- the better off roader the further You have to go to get towing tractor (Чем круче джип, тем дальше трактор)

Filmed in Rukla, military village
Uaz with Nissan patrol frame and transmission and engine, Gaz-66 axles
Amazing performance

Regular wrote:Did You mean UAZ 469?
If You are talking about stock version then it's not good too. Weak unreliable engine, bad suspension, bad quality of bit newer models. That's why there UAZ 469 project models can be found even on year 20 old chasis, they last long. Same like with some cars, stock version is bad, but it's very good for modifications thats why their are still popular. Same Civic EK9 in Drag racing:) Stock is terrible, modification posibilities are endless.
But even older Nissan Patrol or Land cruiser 75 have better engines and more reliable if You want to go with stock. But most of the people modify their cars anyway.
I Didn't own any of them, only know that from friends offroaders.
Gaz-66 on other hand is a beast. They use this truck parts to build smaller vehicles. Very cheap and simple.
Still there is a saying- the better off roader the further You have to go to get towing tractor (Чем круче джип, тем дальше трактор)

Filmed in Rukla, military village
Uaz with Nissan patrol frame and transmission and engine, Gaz-66 axles
Amazing performance

Ah crap did I write GAZ... I was looking at pictures of GAZ in one window and UAZ in another and just got confused and wrote GAZ.

Yes I meant UAZ, the UAZ 469.

Is it poor now? I know people who left their countries and went for New Zealand. They said they had to work in a farm to get permission to stay there (Good decision in my opinion).

Poor is a relative term... Compared with some countries New Zealand is very rich, but compared with most western countries we are not.

Then what's left? There is no perfect system.

That is the key... todays Americans hate big government because they think it is too corruptable... I would argue that big business is no better and often even worse when it is foreign controlled and even less likely to consider public opinion... they would rather spend a million on an add campaign to muddy the waters than spend half that and fix the problem.

There is no perfect system, democracy leads to big business... bigger companies can ride out fluctuations in the market, small companies disappear over time... they either fail or get bought out by bigger companies.

Just saw that oliver stone doco on the US and found it very interesting... it mentioned a US official in 1948 who mentioned that when 6 percent of the worlds population control 50% of the worlds wealth then there will be avarice... but that if that percent wants to retain its position of wealth it needs to forget such ideals as democracy and human rights to retain its position and to maintain that wealth disparity in its favour.

The doco goes on to talk about US influence to get their companies into countries so they can take advantage of the resources and cheap labour with bribes of the top officials and military men in that country... the usual result is a popular uprising... or simply an election of officials that want to stop the drain of resources to the US or the west. Those democratically elected officials are called dictators and despots or commies or worse... Chavez? is just one and the US tactics are the same... the CIA is sent in to either murder them or overthrow them with economic sanctions against the country and funding of the opposition and a media blitz with CIA money and the nationalist is either murdered or thrown from power in a coup. Worked with Pinochet and throughout central and south america... didn't work with Chavez or Castro...

On the face it it the human rights and the high morals... US democracy looks great and civilised, but the simply don't practise what they preach... just like the commies...

but it was time when You were spoon-fed with propaganda, sometimes so blatantly stupid even people spreading it didn't believe it.

The west was even worse at it... most of its zealots actually believe the west is interested in peace and democracy and human rights... the commies prided themselves on their propaganda, but it was one area the west well and truly had them beat.

So Australia played You out and You are economically dependent on them. It's a sign of weak government. Same thing with Swedish banks buying Easter European banks too.

There are still New Zealand owned banks, but the largest and richest banks in NZ are Australian owned.

Nothing new really... New Zealand used to be governed from Australia for a while too.

Still better than only having state controlled media. You can choose what to watch.

No it isn't. At least your own government has some interest... foreign controlled media will just tell you that your laws need changing because opening up your large areas of ocean for oil drilling will bring money and wealth to the country... when in actual fact it will just make an effing mess and a few people will earn good wages for a few years and then they will move on. If... When there is a huge spill unless it effects US interests it will be brushed under the carpet... big spill near the US and it is a disaster... the 500th oil spill in Africa because of leaky pipes and nobody knows about it...

I presume You get loads of Japanese import cars in You country.
Japanese import always seemed to be interesting, but it wasn't for my pocket.

The Japs protected their car industry by making it very expensive to own a car more than a few years old, so Japanese people are always buying new cars and they have an enormous number of practically new cars for sale.

The very first imports were rubbish, but by the 1980s they got them sorted out and have some very good reliable cars that can be bought at very reasonable prices here...

Paradoxically, socialist countries with oversized bureaucracy are more prone to corporate lovvying than more liebral ones.

By lobbying you mean corruption and it is an industry in Washington that is openly practised.

And communism itself can be described as one big corporation, controlling every aspect of economy, with no competition.

That is clearly not true... this is a military site so lets keep it in terms of military... there were plenty of design bureaus making aircraft and for every requirement lots of aircraft were tendered... in fact I would say that there were about four designs competing for the PAK FA program... Sukhoi, Mig, Myasichev, and Yakovlev all put forward designs... compare that with two for the F-35... LM and Boeing.

The loss of the socialist dream was a serious blow to the aspirations of all the oppressed people in the world.  They may not have a voice to say it, but you can notice the desperation in the capitalist world.  People are hopless.

The chapter of troubles between Joseph B Tito and Stalin was just one of the long series of infights and disputes within the socialist camp.

Socialist political leaders of today should strive really hard to provide honest answers as to why the marxist-leninist movement of yesterday opted for being enemies, rather than accepting their own realities and working with what they could work.

Well, it is a dream i had once, that socialist could come together and work out solutions to the capitalist wold problems.  I am convinced humanity, sooner or later, will have to revisit Marx and Lenin again.

the question is when, and what will those future marxists will say about socialist leaders.

It is a rather delicate question. Everyone in the socialist camp is trying to justify their past.  True revolutionaries do not reconcile with the past, they use its understanding to create new possibilities for the future.

I don't see socialist anywhere workin on a new political agenda.

Marxist economic theory is for the recycling bin and society becomes hell in the desperate attempt to make economy work. There is no way for this shit to EVER work. Change dream. Period.

i'm romanian too. the problem is that we now know how is capitalism....and is all about money. no common sense, no educated people just animals that eat each other. the question is that despite we are animals is in our destiny to evolve. and what better evolution could be other than the animals that we are be more educated , more respectfull with each other , and more underssstanding about differences of mentality, intelligence , power of work, oportunities in life, and others. this is what socialism claims that are differences. and differences does not mean something bad , something that you should laugh about, they are just differences. moments of lazyness are moments of sadness , moments of lost of the faith , moments of desperation, moments when you stop believing in you and the world. lazyness is not about having fights whit work is about like i said , sadness. somethimes you are in the wrong place surrounded by the wrong people , with the wrong mentality for you. and is about some people doesn't accept differences. once upon a time someone asked me whit i don't eat the cake he bringed. i said : i don't like. and he got angry. equality mean understanding those differences. because without understanding those differences we are all like others or better said like the bosses want to be. i don't care about the life of donald trumph and i don't like his life. but the capitalist wanna all be like them with a boss upon us that is the most animalic from the money makers. and worship that boss like he is a ....realized person and we are not.....

victor1985 wrote:capitalism....and is all about money. no common sense, no educated people just animals that eat each other.

My vote to you...

Do people on this forum know how right wing many Americans are especially in the South?  Here in America, if any person has a concern for other people or points out income inequality you are either called a socialist or a communist by conservative libertarian people. It is used as a slur.   I want to know what is a socialist and what is a communist? I would like a good precise definition.  Moreover, does it irritate people that these terms are used to slur people?

Some of you all lived in foreign countries that were socialist; how do you react to Americans calling people socialist or communist who want a more economically just society?  It is possible to be opposed to Communism and support a pragmatic free market economy that benefits all people.

andalusia wrote:Do people on this forum know how right wing many Americans are especially in the South?  Here in America, if any person has a concern for other people or points out income inequality you are either called a socialist or a communist by conservative libertarian people. It is used as a slur.   I want to know what is a socialist and what is a communist? I would like a good precise definition.  Moreover, does it irritate people that these terms are used to slur people?

Some of you all lived in foreign countries that were socialist; how do you react to Americans calling people socialist or communist who want a more economically just society?  It is possible to be opposed to Communism and support a pragmatic free market economy that benefits all people.

I will make it clear how it actually is, this is not biased by any means, but exact the evidence that an american asks this question what Socialism and Communism means and why americans slur other people with it. US Americans are indoctrinated since their birth at least from the past 3 generations since the McCarthy era that russians are the evil that Communism/Socialism is worse than Nazis (National Socialists) of WW2.

Communism is the basic to set the human equal with all priveleges to anyone and to base a state around humans and mainly around working class and not like in kleptocracies to set working class around kapital with the enclave of some oligarchs inside the capital bathing in money based on the work of the workin class.

Communism however was never really implemented in a state, but some higher degree of Socialistic methods and dogmas have been used in Soviet Union and some other countries.

Socialism is not far fetched from Communism, the same or similiar methods are currently applied in Canada, that the state covers education for everyone regardless of their family wealth or how poor it is, as long they are qualified for universities or that noone has to pay thousands to hundredthousands for breaking an arm and staying for 3 days in hospital like that is the case in US as long they have no higher paid insurgencies, free healthcare and since during Soviet Union the human was set as the middle point and the state tried to revolve around the citizen and not the other way around, health care was free for all and it was untill fall of USSR the highest in capabilities and quality than any other country has brought up.

Most americans have no freaking idea what that means and were indoctrinated since 1945 that Soviets and Communism is worse than Hitlers Nazi party, they also use some dictators with inflated death tolls to proof their points without knowing shit about history or what communism is.

There is a wonderful book by Ernest Mandel an Analysis of Communism through human history and he writes among the simpliest way to to explain communism on history of humans evolving from hunter and gatherer to a society with more jobs than this and lied down ground for evolving society,jobs and their state beyond of 200 man tribes.

All humans were at some point a society formed of small tribes between 20-to 200 people and usually after reaching 200 or above they would split up to keep the tribes functioning and not depleting resources at their location and to keep their tribes at bay without to many rivaling for leadership or to have say in it. Till this date we have tribes made of hunter and gatherer, based on their environment poor of many resources like in Papua New Guinea.

Such tribes of hunters and gatherer could only achieve growth and potential of their society and therefor develop new professions when they were not bound to hunt and gather all day and everyday to have free hands for other things. This can only be accomplished by "surplus product". So they developed their society over time from every family father and mother gather and hunt for their own to a society of communism where they hunt and gather enough to cover and feed their tribe for 2-5 days, giving them time in between to develope their society and that was the period where they would develope technologies and professions like do pottery, develope technics to make food preserved, also over bigger period of time to domesticate animals and argiculture which was the basis for modern civilisations. So this is the first use of communism among human documented in history. It is the concentration of resources (food,raw material and work/manpower) to keep together functioning and growing potential.

Of course it is very simple due the times back then, but that is the principle of communism/socialism, which is not understood and mainly used to slur people without knowing what it is, due the indoctrinated definition of "dictatorship to kill all" and purely due the ignorance of people.

Ernest Mendel also explains 7 forms of Communism that were at some point actually existing not for countries but for smaller regions,tribes or just small villages or enclaves of bigger countries. Among those there is also a form of communism bound to true and direct democracy where every village had a representative who must live among his village/city members so he is bound to them and the resources the city/village will recieve and also that he keeps his feet on the ground and does not try to double cross his fellows and tries to hort resources for himself.

I hope it helpled you.

My observations from down here in New Zealand it seems to me that the main difference between Europe and the US is that the Europeans are more socialist, while the US seems to be anti big government and pro big business.

Basically socialism in practical terms is where the state runs the health system and the education system and the prison system and a few other key industries like telecommunications and electricity supply. Sometimes even the rail network and other industries that are privatised in non socialist countries.

Communism is where you don't get a vote and the government controls everything... almost a hive mentality where everything is centrally controlled and centrally planned.

Of course there is scope for corruption in any system.

Here in New Zealand we have something called ACC... accident compensation corporation, where if you have an accident which effects your ability to work you apply and if successful they will pay health costs and replace income till you are back at work. You don't have to sue anyone.

Communism is where you don't get a vote and the government controls everything... almost a hive mentality where everything is centrally controlled and centrally planned.

That is not true, there are different forms of Communism and yes i mean true communism not such constructs like in USSR. Democracy does and can exist in communism and is also one of the mechanisms to keep corruption low.

Werewolf wrote:

Communism is where you don't get a vote and the government controls everything... almost a hive mentality where everything is centrally controlled and centrally planned.

That is not true, there are different forms of Communism and yes i mean true communism not such constructs like in USSR. Democracy does and can exist in communism and is also one of the mechanisms to keep corruption low.

andalusia wrote:I want to know what is a socialist and what is a communist? I would like a good precise definition. Moreover, does it irritate people that these terms are used to slur people?

According to Marx, communism and socialism are two level of the same process. That means first you have to build a socialist country and then after finishing that level you go up to communist one.

Let's me state it clear that NO COUNTRY has ever reach the level of communism yet. No country has ever finished the building of socialist level yet.

Even the USSR is NOT a Commie country. Its name is clear: Union of Soviet SOCIALIST Republic.

And in Vietnamese, at least, we do not use "Communist bloc" like the West. We use the term "Socialist bloc" to call ourselves.

========

So what is the different between Socialist and Communist ?

Accoring to our political education it should be:

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A socialist country needs to have GOOD DEMOCRACY, which is expected to provide wide access to most of the people in the country, and provide equal amount of political rights for the people.

In a socialist country, the MEANS OF PRODUCTION is public-owned. But the MEANS OF SUBSISTENCE is not public-owned. That means, funds, investment, tools, machinery, farmlands... are public-owned. However, your money, your house, your food, your PC, your laptop, your watch, your clothes... these are your private properties, and nobody has the right to take them from you.

In a socialist country, YOU REAP WHAT YOU SOW. You are pay for exactly what you have countributed. You work hard that you have a luxurious life. If you do not work, you will not have anything.

On my opinion that is a good condition for FAIR COMPETITION. Because in that environment everybody has the same starting point and same background.

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In a communist country, there is NO social class, NO class conflict. Everybody is equal so there is no goverment anymore.

In a communist country, production power is expected to be developed into an ultimate level, therefore socials goods are extremely abundant. And everybody is expected to be workaholic, everybody is expected to love working. Therefore, the law is loose: you can just work as much as you like and eat as much as you desire.

Social properties are COMPLETELY public-owned.

Optimal development of each INDIVIDUAL is the basis for the goodness of the whole society.

http://political-economy.com/adam-smith-on-socialism

http://campuses.fortbendisd.com/campuses/documents/Teacher/2007/teacher_20070112_0954.pdf

http://smallbusiness.chron.com/enterprise-vs-command-economy-3889.html

http://davidbrin.blogspot.com/2013/11/liberals-you-must-reclaim-adam-smith.html

http://political-economy.com/adam-smith-on-socialism

http://campuses.fortbendisd.com/campuses/documents/Teacher/2007/teacher_20070112_0954.pdf

http://smallbusiness.chron.com/enterprise-vs-command-economy-3889.html

http://davidbrin.blogspot.com/2013/11/liberals-you-must-reclaim-adam-smith.html

Do you russians still believe in communism? I made a simple statistic about capitalism: in USA are 400 milion people. From those 399,99 have normal jobs whit normal income and no much hope that they get even a bit richer. The other 1% are rich have power are in congress do not do much work are not quite smart but are enough to make economic calculus and they clame the superiority of those who can make bussines over those they cant. In my opinion everybody has a limit of inteligence but that is normal and is nothing to blame. The americans proclame power of will as if you could be more smarter if you want. My point is how you are born that way you are living. You are stupid is not much you can do excepts work well done and honest who must be paid as equal to those are smart. Because is called work either you are a smart either you are a stupid.

Also capitalism has some complex methods in wich the money are concentrated in one hand. Hand of rich people.

victor1985 wrote:Do you russians still believe in communism? I made a simple statistic about capitalism: in USA  are 400 milion people. From those 399,99 have normal jobs whit normal income and no much hope that they get even a bit richer. The other 1% are rich have power are in congress do not do much work are not quite smart but are enough to make economic calculus and they clame the superiority of those who can make bussines over those they cant. In my opinion everybody has a limit of inteligence but that is normal and is nothing to blame. The americans proclame power of will as if you could be more smarter if you want. My point is how you are born that way you are living. You are stupid is not much you can do excepts work well done and honest who must be paid as equal to those are smart. Because is called work either you are a smart either you are a stupid.

The majority of russians (and also my people the Bulgarians) support more anticapitalist policies and experience a lot of nostalgia, but the Oligarchic capitalist and monarchist propaganda of the 90s has manipulated also the quite nationalist and conservative leaning , thus warping their minds into thinking that communism is "unpatriotic", a "american jewish plot"(themost illogical and idiotic faschist monarchist historical lie unfortunately parroted too much presently) , bourgeois "historians" working tirelessly  "exposing"(making up) supposed "crimes of communism" and portraying religious zealotry and monarchism as trendy, causing said population to be duped and vote for right wing parties whose agenda is completely against the class interests.

Comunism had its anthem called "international" that is why capitalists called comunism "unpatriotic". Comunism was the solution after hundred of ywars of wars to try unify all nation if not in a perfect peace at least in a respect one to each other. Cause the alternative to this is a savage competition where the weaks are always beaten. We can call capitalism if they called comunism unpatriotic, as "colonialism" (the great empires who ruled over other countryes: spain, uk, portugal, france, germani, holland) that drives all into a slavery system. Democracy is freedom of speech but if you would try to make in USA a NGO called "doubts against basis of capitalism" you would be arrested. Here in romania the old comunism thinking was overwhelmed by westic propaganda and all youngs are totally indoctrinated. I would be interested on a clear study at capitalism complex maneuvers that make those who are rich to be richer and poor staying where they are. I mean study of economical maneuvers. After all i made a simple statistic upon america and it was seen that 99,99% of people have normal life and 1% have the power. Lets nominate simple names in USA congress and see what is their fortunes. They explain that the ones who know economy must be the leaders but also they say capitalism is a battle of own interest. Meaning that those congressmans would sustain own bussines and fortunes leaving for normal people things like buying stuff, working hard, watch tv and play games.

And about monarchy....... sound like still believing(like in 1960) in kings and lords. Whit servants and taxes for staying on lords land and duty "from god" to work for them. Comunism had the idea that against try making a system in which we can be animals better stop being animals. The comunism said that for that a battle must be made cause capitalists, being more animalic wouldnt quite so easy. That is the battle of social classes firstly promovated by capitalists whit slavery system and adopted by comunists cause there was not a alternative to fight. Cause capitalist didnt want one. After all try to say to a oligarch that he has too much money for what he work, that he build his empire whit help of workers and would be nice to share his fortune whit ones that helped him, that all he do is concentrating fortunes in one hand. They say about competition but....... the ideas of bussines mans have value and hard work whit hand has also. If one dont know to make a job better well he is good to something else. If in his job is one that is better well that is how the nature leaved him so cant be called a "laizy", after all you quit do a work when you see your chances to make the thing tends to 0. And when in your head another thing take more importance.

There is a problem whit communism. The top leaders are lied by the 2nd line in the party for not risk they job and security. Thus important thruth does not come to leaders so they cant change important things. In the same way ordinary population report false things to their superiors so they keep their jobs too. So in the entire comunist nation all is behind lies. An alternative urss would be that where is a better comunication lack of fear of people to leaders and correct reports about economics. The against party mentality would be banned but capability at place of work would be just a matter of force of the people. If they cant do best job well no uppset just relocate to another job. No prison for them.

victor1985 wrote:There is a problem whit communism. The top leaders are lied by the 2nd line in the party for not risk they job and security. Thus important thruth does not come to leaders so they cant change important things. In the same way ordinary population report false things to their superiors so they keep their jobs too. So in the entire comunist nation all is behind lies. An alternative urss would be that where is a better comunication lack of fear of people to leaders and correct reports about economics. The against party mentality would be banned but capability at place of work would be just a matter of force of the people. If they cant do best job well no uppset just relocate to another job. No prison for them.

Which actually is a systemic flaw of our current capitalist system...Under communism you had 'fear' although it was relative. Under Capitalism lies and credibility are off the charts and fear isn't the cause. Greed is.

There a whole industry within the banking sector that specializes into tax fraud and fiscal evasion.
There is a whole industry in the Audit sector that specializes (Andersen fiasco) into book cooking.
There is a whole industry into the political sector that specializes into mass theft, lies and propaganda, it's called the parliament.

Lies in the Soviet system were indeed worrisome, because the system was closed circuit, the State lied to itself. Those who said they weren't the state, actually were more of the state, than the leaders themselves. Conflicting ethics was indeed a big issue back then, but it hasn't changed at all today. While the people lie to themselves.

When looking closely, the only difference, is that the state and private property are decoupled in the current world de jure, while de facto it isn't true. So indeed certain lies can be sheltered, because they don't hit everyone equally.

For instance the losses from the 2007 subprime crisis were roughly 3 trillion in six months (plus other trillions in market value), that's effing 2 years of 1989 CCCP GDP. This is the damn reality, this is why people lie, not to keep their JOB, but to keep their other lies.

The Soviet system had this very sobering effect, that it showed you what the reality was, you+your hands were needed by the system. While here there is this insanity about how you can be free and do WHAT you want, while the fact is that you are not even needed.

So there is a lot of revisionism about fear in the USSR and many WP countries, but the reality is that the System, was merely covering for personal shortcomings. It simply was a veneer over the real people, one that kept them from going at each other's throats.

Poi t is in capitalism all they try to hit each others. So is hard to lie all. This is whi all fall. From time to time some big ones are discover. So the society clean itself. In communism there isnt even a partial solution to lies. When all are free first they ask themselfs who lies me. So....even that parliament has problems. They cant keep lying. Somethimes the truth reach surface. And the point is some journalists cant lie and their job because what government do hit them too. So...we have some brave jurnalists that see the truth and share him whit the people to get help from them. Point is nobody cares about ordinary people. They let them to be stupid. They just need teir work and money. If population isnt smart enough they cant do much thing.

Some to do a equilibrum speak whit those stupid people and wake them up and give them a cause to fight for. So as a politician in western countryes you are never secure.

victor1985 wrote:Poi t is in capitalism all they try to hit each others. So is hard to lie all. This is whi all fall. From time to time some big ones are discover. So the society clean itself. In communism there isnt even a partial solution to lies. When all are free first they ask themselfs who lies me. So....even that parliament has problems. They cant keep lying. Somethimes the truth reach surface. And the point is some journalists cant lie and their job because what government do hit them too. So...we have some brave jurnalists that see the truth and share him whit the people to get help from them. Point is nobody cares about ordinary people. They let them to be stupid. They just need teir work and money. If population isnt smart enough they cant do much thing.

How does society clean itself? It simply doesn't, that's why you have historical rifts, that's why you have cyclical phenomena that evolve into greater, extended trends.
Communism, is such a manifestation. Communism is the attempt to clean society, it failed in practice, as a global cure, but then, we have "leaner" and more ad hoc cures being proposed. Militant islamism for muslims (No i'm not talking about BS Jihadi Muktar decapitating people). I'm talking about the deep resentment that the Muslim world is brewing against the Western World.

And it goes no where.

History is a consequence of the fact that society can't clean itself the way it should. As Marx told, Equilibrium is an exceptional state.

Its like this: everyone want to be free, noone want a supreme leader, all are fighting against the leader and anyone that after the supreme leader wants to rule the world. The majority always coallise against minor but powerfull. In this all ask themselfs: what we do after the supreme leader? The answer is to share from one to another.