Russia - Iran Military Cooperation

Pretty standard scam in western armies is to not fire off your full allocation of live ammo during an exercise... who can honestly tell the difference between a 750 gramme explosive and a 1.5kg explosive device... who is going to follow you around and make sure you fire off all your ammo... if you don't even take it out with you you don't have to carry so much weight and it makes things easier.

All sorts of captured stuff could be put to use... it would be interesting to see how Javelin goes against Leopards too... a diving top attack weapon fired at a tank with that much turret area would be interesting.... and they are free.

Having weapons caches you could pick out the really valuable (expensive) stuff and keep that somewhere else on the sly so if the main weapon cache gets hit and explodes you can tell your American allies about all the expensive weapons that were destroyed... remove the number codes on them and sell them on the black market...

Russian fighter jets will change the rules of the game in the Middle East, by Rafael Fakhrutdinov for VZGLYAD. 03.12.2023.

Experts told why Iran needs Su-35 fighters.

The sensational news was announced by official sources in Iran - it is alleged that Moscow agreed to sell Su-35 fighters to Tehran. If this information is correct, the Russian military-industrial complex will earn billions of dollars, Iran will have a powerful tool to counter Israel, and US influence in the Middle East will decrease.

Iran has completed a deal to buy Su-35 fighter jets from Russia, the Iranian state news agency IRNA reported , citing Iran's permanent mission to the UN. Information about the number of aircraft and delivery time is not disclosed.

“After the end of the Iran-Iraq war in 1988, Iran turned to a number of countries with a request to study the possibility of selling fighters, and Russia announced that it was ready to sell them,” the permanent mission said. The mission added that “the fighters are technically approved by Iran. After October 2020, when the ban on the sale of conventional weapons to Iran was lifted in accordance with UN Security Council Resolution 2231, Tehran finally decided to acquire them.”

A few days earlier, Pentagon chief Lloyd Austin, at a joint press conference with Israeli Defense Minister Yoav Gallant, expressed concern about Iran's "growing strategic partnership with Russia", and, in particular, the sale of Iranian drones to Moscow, the US Department of Defense said in a statement.

“Over the past year, Russian military cooperation with Iran has deepened, and this creates serious problems for this region and for the security of your citizens. Iran is gaining important combat knowledge and experience in Ukraine, which will eventually receive its dangerous puppets in the Middle East,” he added. “In exchange for support, Russia is offering Iran unprecedented defense cooperation, including in the areas of missiles and air defense,” Lloyd said.

The Biden administration calls the close ties between Moscow and Tehran "harmful" and says the Iranians are already being trained on the new planes. White House spokesman John Kirby pointed out that "these fighters will significantly strengthen the Iranian air force compared to its neighbors in the region."

In February, Iran unveiled a new underground air force base called Eagle 44, The New York Times reported . It is located on a mountainside 160 km north of the Strait of Hormuz.

The satellite imagery was reviewed by Chris Biggers, a former US government imaging analyst and senior director of mission applications at HawkEye 360, a firm that monitors radio frequency emissions around the world. In his analysis, Biggers pointed to two models of combat aircraft, one of which is the size of a Su-35. It stands on the site where construction is underway. “Probably, they are used to assess the maneuvering of aircraft in the underground complex and may indicate that the Su-35s will be based here,” the American expert said.

At the beginning of this year, Shahriar Heydari, a member of the National Security and Foreign Policy Commission of the Islamic Consultative Council, said: Su-35s will arrive from Russia in Iran in early 2024, Tasnim reported . “We have ordered defense systems, missiles and helicopters from Russia, and most of these weapons will soon enter the country,” he added.

Iranian Air Force Commander Amir Vahedi stressed that in addition to the Su-35, Tehran plans to purchase Su-30 fighters.

Su-35s showed themselves well during the counter-terrorist operation of the Aerospace Forces in Syria. In addition, President Vladimir Putin called the work of Russian aviation during the special operation in Ukraine very good. “And the attack aircraft are fighting excellently, and the “dryers” - Su-34, Su-35, very well. The weapons are good. <...> They make a significant contribution to the effectiveness of the actions of the troops," the head of state emphasized at a meeting with the awarded Heroes of Russia in the Kremlin. In other words, the Su-35 is the beauty and pride of the Russian defense industry, one of the most advanced fighters in the world at the moment.

According to US media reports, in 2017, the Syrian army, together with the Lebanese military and Hezbollah fighters, liberated the Arsal municipality on the border of Lebanon and Syria from terrorists. The detachments were supported by the Su-35 of the Aerospace Forces of the Russian Federation. This also played in favor of Iran's purchase of these fighters. The publication reported that the Su-35 is likely to be deployed to protect and patrol key facilities associated with the Iranian nuclear program.

It is worth noting that Russian officials have not yet commented on the statement of Iranian representatives. And yet, the likelihood that we are not talking about some kind of speculation, but about the real possibility of a deal is high. If the reports are confirmed, it will mean a major achievement for the Russian arms trade system, as well as significant profits for domestic manufacturers of combat aircraft.

It could be a deal worth billions of dollars.

“This contract is a good stage for the further promotion of Russian military-industrial complex products to the Middle East,” says pilot-instructor Major Andrey Krasnoperov. - Especially if we assume that the delivery of several dozen aircraft is expected, and the contract itself allows for additional purchases of aircraft. It also means that Russia will train Iranian pilots. These are long-term programs, deepening cooperation between countries,” the specialist explained.

Military Watch magazine wrote that the Su-35 has destroyed more enemy fighters than any other aircraft since the Cold War. In addition, the author of the publication continues, the Su-35 can withstand modern Western fighters of the highest class - the F-35A and F-15CA.

“The Iranian Air Force, with the purchase of the Su35, will receive a significant increase in air power,” Krasnoperov confirms. - The Su-35 has good maneuverability and air combat capabilities. For example, there were cases when an F-16 tried to intercept it, but the Russian car quite calmly went into the tail of an American fighter, ”the interlocutor recalled.

Experts directly indicate the enemy that the Russian-made Su-35 will be confronted in Iran.

“Iran is not yet able to independently produce 4++ generation aircraft, such as the Su-35, which can “see” the American F-35 and F-22 protected by stealth technology. Therefore, acquiring such advanced fighter jets from Russia is the right decision for Tehran. In addition, I can assume that Tehran buys air-to-air, air-to-ground and air-to-radar missiles for them,” Alexei Leonkov, editor of Arsenal of the Fatherland magazine, explained.

“Iran has S-300 and Tor M1 air defense systems. Now they can make an integrated air defense system, where the Su-35 will meet the aggressor at the forefront. In addition, this fighter is called the "hunter" - for the ability to gain air supremacy. In general, Tehran's deal with Moscow changes the balance of power in the Middle East region and becomes a serious challenge for Israel,” the source said.

“Israel has F-16s and F-35s. They bought them in order to keep "on a short leash" the neighboring countries of the Middle East, which have nothing to answer for the fifth generation fighter. And Iran will now have Su-35s that “see” further and are superior in maneuverability to the American fighter,” the analyst emphasized.

“For the F-35, close combat is deadly, the aircraft was designed for confrontation at medium range. But if long-range guided air-to-air missiles are included in the Su-35 ammunition supplied to Iran, then they will be able to successfully withstand American fighters at any distance, ”the expert added.

The deal has not only a purely military, but also a geopolitical dimension. “This deal shows that the Middle East is no longer unipolar. The strengthening of the Iranian Air Force will cause some "disappointment" in Saudi Arabia with its American partners. On the other hand, Riyadh and Tehran are building relationships at an accelerated pace. Therefore, the delivery of the Su-35 to Iran can be called one of the stages of strengthening the new Middle East pole, an alternative to the American one,” says Rajab Safarov, general director of the Center for the Study of Modern Iran.

“The supply of fighter jets to Tehran demonstrates the decline of US influence both in the region and in the world. We see how China and Russia "enter" the Middle East. The United States and its Israeli partners will no longer be able to feel as at ease on the border with Iran as before, and will also be much more prudent in pursuing the policy they need in Yemen", the interlocutor sums up.

https://vz.ru/society/2023/3/12/1202811.html

Spriter
@Spriter99880
·
13h
Iran will receive 16 Su-35 fighters in the coming days.
Acc Iranian military'source

Will Iran get a Su-30 production line like India?

I believe they should get a Mig-29 production line/ToT.
A far simpler platform for them to mess with.
I would also push for a T-90 production line.

One or the other would be good, as for T-90 they have their Karrar which has elements of T-72 and believed to have elements similar to T-90 it's probably enough for what Iran needs they won't be fighting ground battles as the majority of the threat comes from USA/Israeli drones etc

d_taddei2 wrote:One or the other would be good, as for T-90 they have their Karrar which has elements of T-72 and believed to have elements similar to T-90 it's probably enough for what Iran needs they won't be fighting ground battles as the majority of the threat comes from USA/Israeli drones etc

True, western rats dont even touch the ground unless they completely control the airspace.

I guess a Tunkushka or Pantsir productionline would be more usefull.
Though i am not sure which system would be more usefull against smaller drones??

Iran has a vast array of AD systems all will have varying effectiveness against drones. But two systems they come to mind that they have Tor and Pantsir, another two systems worth a mention is the Mesbah a 23mm 8 barrelled fully automatic AD system and the Sa-ir a 100mm fully automatic KS-19 and has 4-5 round self loading system . And remember Aircraft and other drones can/could take out drones. I think Iran would benefit from EW systems.

d_taddei2 wrote:Iran has a vast array of AD systems all will have varying effectiveness against drones. But two systems they come to mind that they have Tor and Pantsir, another two systems worth a mention is the Mesbah a 23mm 8 barrelled fully automatic AD system and the Sa-ir a 100mm fully automatic KS-19 and has 4-5 round self loading system . And remember Aircraft and other drones can/could take out drones. I think Iran would benefit from EW systems.

Yea that's what i meant, for UAVs and UCAVs Iran has a number of options, but it's those really smaller ones that have me concerned.
Those would fall more into EW systems, and that is where i am not too sure which Russian EW system they should get.

I recall Russia also had some point defense systems to protect their AD system from anything that gets through the net.
Let me see if i could find that video.

Update:
Found it, it's the Gazetchik-E system.

I believe Russia has quite a few systems capable of EW it would all depend on what it's willing to sell on export market
Krasukha springs to mind.

You also have to remember that these small drones u are talking about, because they are small they will carry smaller payloads and have shorter ranges. Iran is a massive country and unless they launch within the country which isn't easy thing to do and yes we all know about the drone in Moscow but as I mentioned a very small drone, unlikely to do massive damage, and with Tehran being 600+km away from the coast and about the same from Kuwait I can see USA being able to launch these drones from their and they making all the way to Tehran. And USA ships are only allowed in international waters. And the bigger drones will be easier to detect and also remember drones travel at fairly slow speeds compared to aircraft.

They have a lot to discuss, including tactics and methods of application of ground and air power.

About the Krasukha, might not be an option for anyone anymore, and no, this is not some export version either, so don't even try that excuse.

Wiki wrote:Krasukha-4 models are also being employed in the ongoing Russian invasion of Ukraine, as Ukrainian forces captured one of these devices in the field near Kyiv. A photograph posted to social media claims to show part of the system, which has been separated from its truck mount and shows some damage.[17][18] The unit was then sent to the United States for examination.[19]

Ok, what happened here???

The hell was this thing doing near kiev??

Possibly a combination of what the UK is doing with their storm shadow missiles.... essentially testing them in their primary role and also if they get captured or compromised then you get funding for the next upgrade and the introduction and serial production of the new model will be fast tracked because the technology is now compromised...

Lets see what happens next week.

I am glad there are not strings attached to this... ie this is not a threat... so for example the British have sent cruise missiles to Kiev so Russia is selling Su-35s to Iran.

The reason being is that is a cynical way to play with countries because in that case if Britain then said they would remove all cruise missiles from Kievs forces then Russia would have to say to Iran they can't have Su-35s which is not fair to Iran however unlikely it might be that Britain would do that.

I would say what Argentina really needs is some decent submarines and some decent anti sub technology, plus some decent anti ship technology and decent air defence systems.

The UK navy was terribly vulnerable to sea skimming missiles last time around... wonder how they would cope with drones in enormous numbers, or a better class of sea skimming missiles.

Looking forward to see the shock and indignation from the EU and the US over Russia doing something they are not allowed to do.

Western sanctions on Russia and China are fully justified because of Russia, but Russian responses are outrageous and not acceptable... and unfair too... we ban you from our airspace because your naughty but banning us from your airspace adds costs to our airlines which gives other airlines an unfair advantage... hahaha

Does anyone got any update on the delivery of Iranian Su-35?

Why are people assuming that Iran is getting Su-35s built for Egypt?

No one knew about the licence production in Russia of Iranian drones, and when it was revealed everyone assumed they were Iranian drones being used in an emergency knee jerk reaction to the conflict.

But it is pretty clear now that Russian forces in Syria tested these Iranian drones and I would say likely Iraninan soldiers got to test out all sorts of Russian equipment too... I suspect Airbornewolf can confirm that every countries soldiers love testing the weapons and equipment of other countries they work with or find on the battlefield from enemy forces... it is just a professional thing and a great way to get new stuff or your stuff upgraded.

The Russians not only set up production for Iranian drones but they modified those drones with their own electronics and systems and integrated them into their own air defence network so they didn't just shoot down all their own new drones, and their own equipment didn't jam their own new drones.

I would say that when Russia was telling Iran that it liked these Iranian drones and wanted to modify them for their own use that Iran probably first of all negotiated a licence production agreement which probably included Russia supplying navigation and other equipment to help make their own drones better, but also asked about other things like fighter aircraft so they can move on from their F-14s and F-4s and old MiG-29s.

Su-35 would be an obvious solution along with perhaps MiG-35s to allow large numbers of aircraft to fill gaps in the air defence that fewer larger more expensive aircraft would struggle to do.

The Su-35 carries the same weapons the MiG-35 carries for the most part so an R-77-1 launched from either aircraft at the same altitude and same speed will have the same range and performance... having a decent Air defence network means much longer ranged ground based and air based radar will be finding the targets and vectoring the aircraft to a point where they can find and lock the targets for launching missiles at them... with active radar homing missiles they might not even use their own radars at all making the larger radar on the Su-35 no great advantage.

Purchase price and hourly operational costs is what matters which is where the MiG-35 wins.

They were intended to work together... the Su-35 is the better aircraft in everything except price and operational costs so having both means the best possible force because having MiG-35s as well means you can have everything... the performance of two very good aircraft in air to air and air to ground roles and aircraft that are affordable enough so you can have a lot of them so there are fewer empty spaces in your air defences.

GarryB wrote:Why are people assuming that Iran is getting Su-35s built for Egypt?

Because there were many reports that Iran wants a quicker supply. An already built air frame is a good way to get that.

No one knew about the licence production in Russia of Iranian drones.

Those who paid attention knew it from the beginning. Iran doesn't have the capacity to produce the quantity Russia needs in the short time frame and surely they won't sell from their own inventory.

MiG-35

This obsession is comparable to PD and Rogozin saga. But anyways MiG-35 isn't going anywhere and Iran publicly stated interest about Su-30 (around 2014-15) then Su-35, Mi-35 and Pantsir. Those who paid attention should remember.

Because there were many reports that Iran wants a quicker supply. An already built air frame is a good way to get that.

Selling a custom made item you made for one customer to another customer has several problems... are you assuming both customers what the same custom features... is the original customer OK with you selling their product to someone else?

Why would you assume that if Russia can set up and build a factory to make Iranian drones that the west does not notice till after Russia actually starts to use those drones... and when they see those drones in use the immediate assumption is that Iran is sending drones to Russia, but that transport plane Russia sent to Iran might have been delivering Russian components for Irans drones to replace the components they used to have to get internationally at likely huge mark ups.

These reports are from the same news agencies that are saying Russia is running out of missiles and weapons and tanks and people because 20 million are already dead for the 4 thousand Ukrainian soldiers killed so far...

There is a lot of speculation but little in the way of actual facts.

This obsession is comparable to PD and Rogozin saga. But anyways MiG-35 isn't going anywhere and Iran publicly stated interest about Su-30 (around 2014-15) then Su-35, Mi-35 and Pantsir. Those who paid attention should remember.

In 2014 the MiG-35 was not an option.

The MiG-35 is a smaller lighter cheaper to buy and cheaper to operate Su-35... its role is to be the numbers aircraft with an AESA radar that allows it to see targets on the modern battlefield in the air and on the ground and pass that information to relevant HQs so they can add that information to their battlemaps... high quality airborne radar is one thing the Russians currently miss and it reduces the amount of real time target information at their disposal.

Yes, I am biased too... a smaller lighter platform available in larger numbers just makes sense... that is its intended role.

What I find amusing is that so many Flanker fans think the MiG-35 is pointless and a waste of time, but then Checkmate was revealed and all of a sudden smaller lighter cheaper makes sense and is a serious gap in their inventory.

Israeli channel 12 claimed that Tel Aviv and Moscow reached an agreement on the delivery (not delivering) of some weaponry to Iran that was agreed upon before. Su-35 fighter jets could probably be a part of that deal.

Source: https://twitter.com/tala_taslimi/status/1670830357002764290?s=20

Well assuming it is true that is what I was afraid of... why should Iran trust Moscow if they keep pulling this shit?

I would say screw Israel... they caused the loss of that intel aircraft in Syria because of their bullshit, why should Russia respect their fears and needs when they walk all over their neighbours with no respect and treat their own population like Kiev treats its Russian speaking portion of its own population.

How about Russia wont sell Su-35s to Iran if Israel withdraws from the Golan Heights and promises to drop all economic sanctions against Iran and Syria... but Russia would have to confirm that is OK with Iran first.

Of course this requires confirmation first because Israeli sources will be more interested in rocking the boat than publishing the truth.