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Russian Army Robots
George1- Posts : 18315
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lyle6- Posts : 2190
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MOSCOW, January 24 - RIA Novosti . The Uran-9 combat robotic complex has been adopted by the Russian army, said Vladimir Dmitriev, general director of the Kalashnikov concern.
According to him, the complex will be finalized taking into account the combat use in Syria.
"Syria is an excellent testing ground for understanding the strengths and weaknesses of any weapon," Dmitriev added.
The Uran-9 robotic complex is designed for reconnaissance, fire support and destruction of enemy armored vehicles. The 12-ton robot is armed with an Attack guided weapon system with anti-tank missiles, Shmel-M jet flamethrowers, a 2A72 30-mm automatic cannon and a 7.62 mm machine gun.
https://ria.ru/20190124/1549807789.html
According to him, the complex will be finalized taking into account the combat use in Syria.
"Syria is an excellent testing ground for understanding the strengths and weaknesses of any weapon," Dmitriev added.
The Uran-9 robotic complex is designed for reconnaissance, fire support and destruction of enemy armored vehicles. The 12-ton robot is armed with an Attack guided weapon system with anti-tank missiles, Shmel-M jet flamethrowers, a 2A72 30-mm automatic cannon and a 7.62 mm machine gun.
https://ria.ru/20190124/1549807789.html
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magnumcromagnon- Posts : 8138
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Amazing high quality footage of Uran-9.
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kvs- Posts : 15130
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The optics aperture looks like a weak spot. They should develop a "Roladex" system where if the optics are damaged, they
get replaced with a backup (maybe more than one).
For example a simple explosion in front of the vehicle even if does not disable it can cover the "eye piece" with mud. I
don't see any provision for removing this mud. And an explosion can also fracture the bullet proof glass cover in front
of the lenses enough to make it effectively opaque.
The idea of am armoured vehicle is for it to keep on working after exposed to gunfire and even explosions. It is not meant
as a single use device thrown away after one hit.
get replaced with a backup (maybe more than one).
For example a simple explosion in front of the vehicle even if does not disable it can cover the "eye piece" with mud. I
don't see any provision for removing this mud. And an explosion can also fracture the bullet proof glass cover in front
of the lenses enough to make it effectively opaque.
The idea of am armoured vehicle is for it to keep on working after exposed to gunfire and even explosions. It is not meant
as a single use device thrown away after one hit.
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Big_Gazza- Posts : 4641
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Photo from that vid that shows some of the Uran-9 internals:
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The_Observer- Posts : 84
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kvs wrote:The optics aperture looks like a weak spot. They should develop a "Roladex" system where if the optics are damaged, they
get replaced with a backup (maybe more than one).
For example a simple explosion in front of the vehicle even if does not disable it can cover the "eye piece" with mud. I
don't see any provision for removing this mud. And an explosion can also fracture the bullet proof glass cover in front
of the lenses enough to make it effectively opaque.
The idea of am armoured vehicle is for it to keep on working after exposed to gunfire and even explosions. It is not meant
as a single use device thrown away after one hit.
True!
At the very least, it should be able to retreat out of danger using its rear camera.
GarryB- Posts : 38992
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I suspect that large forward facing hull prism is for driving the vehicle and would think replacement of optics could be automatic or smaller backup options might be used.
Would be useful to have a flying drone above where this ground drone is operating so it can be more aware of threats around it with a sort of god view.
This could be used to manually drive the vehicle even using the flying drone as a datalink signal bouncer to allow it to operate in an urban area surrounded by buildings.
Control of the vehicle might be mixed with soldier in the ground driving it and operating it, but even he could get more information from drones in the air too.
It would certainly be a powerful vehicle to have drive around beside you, but would you send it in to danger, or have it sit back up high in an overwatch position where it can support you with its weapons.
I don't think I would want it moving in close proximity to me because of the risk of running in to me... but I would like to be able to sit on it or a sled it was dragging so I didn't have to walk...
If the enemy wants to concentrate its fire trying to blind this vehicle I would be a happy camper, because while they are doing that I will be trying to work out where they are and shooting them.
The optic we see is the primary drivers optic, but there could be dozens of fibre optic cameras around the thing that offer a not so good view that is functional enough to allow it to get home and would be almost impossible to take out all of them even if you could see them.
At the very worst it can use its GLONASS location system to determine where it is and try to drive out of dodge using road maps...
I would doubt it will be operating deep in enemy territory without the squad it was supporting being anywhere near it.
Would be useful to have a flying drone above where this ground drone is operating so it can be more aware of threats around it with a sort of god view.
This could be used to manually drive the vehicle even using the flying drone as a datalink signal bouncer to allow it to operate in an urban area surrounded by buildings.
Control of the vehicle might be mixed with soldier in the ground driving it and operating it, but even he could get more information from drones in the air too.
It would certainly be a powerful vehicle to have drive around beside you, but would you send it in to danger, or have it sit back up high in an overwatch position where it can support you with its weapons.
I don't think I would want it moving in close proximity to me because of the risk of running in to me... but I would like to be able to sit on it or a sled it was dragging so I didn't have to walk...
If the enemy wants to concentrate its fire trying to blind this vehicle I would be a happy camper, because while they are doing that I will be trying to work out where they are and shooting them.
At the very least, it should be able to retreat out of danger using its rear camera.
The optic we see is the primary drivers optic, but there could be dozens of fibre optic cameras around the thing that offer a not so good view that is functional enough to allow it to get home and would be almost impossible to take out all of them even if you could see them.
At the very worst it can use its GLONASS location system to determine where it is and try to drive out of dodge using road maps...
I would doubt it will be operating deep in enemy territory without the squad it was supporting being anywhere near it.
lyle6- Posts : 2190
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kvs wrote:The optics aperture looks like a weak spot. They should develop a "Roladex" system where if the optics are damaged, they
get replaced with a backup (maybe more than one).
For example a simple explosion in front of the vehicle even if does not disable it can cover the "eye piece" with mud. I
don't see any provision for removing this mud. And an explosion can also fracture the bullet proof glass cover in front
of the lenses enough to make it effectively opaque.
The idea of am armoured vehicle is for it to keep on working after exposed to gunfire and even explosions. It is not meant
as a single use device thrown away after one hit.
If you look closely there's actually three cameras in that housing: a big one that could see further and two smaller ones on either side for backup.
Another two can be seen on top of the fenders and there are multiple such circular windows that can be seen around the vehicle that could very well be cameras.
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kvs- Posts : 15130
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The three lenses are clearly not any backup plan. It is what I would call the optical aperture. If this aperture is damaged enough
to even block one of those cameras, the functionality of this robot is seriously degraded. And I see no evidence of any backup
system and certainly no way to remove mud and grime from the bullet proof glass cover over the three lenses. I guess they
could have infantry assigned this task. But why aim low when you can aim high?
to even block one of those cameras, the functionality of this robot is seriously degraded. And I see no evidence of any backup
system and certainly no way to remove mud and grime from the bullet proof glass cover over the three lenses. I guess they
could have infantry assigned this task. But why aim low when you can aim high?
lyle6- Posts : 2190
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kvs wrote:The three lenses are clearly not any backup plan. It is what I would call the optical aperture. If this aperture is damaged enough
to even block one of those cameras, the functionality of this robot is seriously degraded. And I see no evidence of any backup
system and certainly no way to remove mud and grime from the bullet proof glass cover over the three lenses. I guess they
could have infantry assigned this task. But why aim low when you can aim high?
Maybe because the customer is particular about widgets that don't really enhance mission critical capabilities that much, not if they could be remedied by alternative means. Like the T-72B3 upgrades rolled out with new multichannel sights which didn't have the same automatic shutters of the old sight; it wouldn't have cost that much probably in the hundreds of dollars figures but when you're talking thousands of tanks that cost might add up to one or two tanks in the end.
PapaDragon- Posts : 13275
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Is everyone ignoring numerous optics on the weapon station?
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GarryB- Posts : 38992
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Part of the issue is that no matter what you do there is always a way to defeat it...
Standard Soviet and Russian tank viewing ports had compressed air systems to blow out cloth or liquids blocking the ports, and the ports themselves were not windows, but solid glass prisms that could be replaced in combat if damaged and no longer transparent.
I think he means for driving... and getting back to base. Taking out the gun optics is a problem too, but at least you can drive back to base with your weapon optics damaged.
I would think the best solution would be the main optical systems... ie cameras under main armour with the light reaching those expensive cameras via fibre optic feed or armoured glass prisms and mirrors, so fibre optics cables can be damaged and glass prism blocks but they are cheaper and easier to replace than the actual camera or optical sensor.
Perhaps that will become a consideration after the users and people fighting them get more experience.
Certainly at some point an enemy is going to think a few paintball guns firing at the optical ports might render it less able to do damage so you can walk up to it and place a large bomb under its belly and blow it up.
Standard Soviet and Russian tank viewing ports had compressed air systems to blow out cloth or liquids blocking the ports, and the ports themselves were not windows, but solid glass prisms that could be replaced in combat if damaged and no longer transparent.
Is everyone ignoring numerous optics on the weapon station?
I think he means for driving... and getting back to base. Taking out the gun optics is a problem too, but at least you can drive back to base with your weapon optics damaged.
I would think the best solution would be the main optical systems... ie cameras under main armour with the light reaching those expensive cameras via fibre optic feed or armoured glass prisms and mirrors, so fibre optics cables can be damaged and glass prism blocks but they are cheaper and easier to replace than the actual camera or optical sensor.
Perhaps that will become a consideration after the users and people fighting them get more experience.
Certainly at some point an enemy is going to think a few paintball guns firing at the optical ports might render it less able to do damage so you can walk up to it and place a large bomb under its belly and blow it up.
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medo- Posts : 4342
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PapaDragon wrote:
Is everyone ignoring numerous optics on the weapon station?
It loooks many optics, but every one have its function. It have thermal imager, day time TV, laser range finder IR locating channel for Ataka missiles, laser guiding channel for Ataka missile and most probably laser channel for programable air burst rounds for main gun.
Ataka missile is also produced in air defense version 9M220O with proximity fuse and special expanding rod warhead. On video we could see, that it have two pairs of Igla MANPADs on erecting arms, so Uran-9 could be well used as effective VSHORAD. Control range is now improved from 3 to 5 km. Using the in Air defense is actually great solution as anti-drone weapon. Combination of 8 Ataka and Igla/Verba missiles and air burs ammunition for 30 mm gun in defending circle or positions, which are behind first line, so less chances to lost communications with them. Using a battery of 6 or 12 Urans and placing inside the circle some rubber fake Tors or Pantsirs, which will be primary targets for drones, they could make quite a massacre to the drones. Even if they hit Uran-9, no one is dead as they are unmanned robots. Using whole battery enable them to cover each other.
In other roles for ground operations, most probably Uran-9 units will be used in combination with recce drones, UCAVs and kamikaze drones. Some drones could be used as retranslators for extending communication and control with robots.
New ammunition with APFSDS and air burst rounds for 30 mm gun will made them very effective against any target.
magnumcromagnon- Posts : 8138
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medo wrote:PapaDragon wrote:
Is everyone ignoring numerous optics on the weapon station?
It loooks many optics, but every one have its function. It have thermal imager, day time TV, laser range finder IR locating channel for Ataka missiles, laser guiding channel for Ataka missile and most probably laser channel for programable air burst rounds for main gun.
Ataka missile is also produced in air defense version 9M220O with proximity fuse and special expanding rod warhead. On video we could see, that it have two pairs of Igla MANPADs on erecting arms, so Uran-9 could be well used as effective VSHORAD. Control range is now improved from 3 to 5 km. Using the in Air defense is actually great solution as anti-drone weapon. Combination of 8 Ataka and Igla/Verba missiles and air burs ammunition for 30 mm gun in defending circle or positions, which are behind first line, so less chances to lost communications with them. Using a battery of 6 or 12 Urans and placing inside the circle some rubber fake Tors or Pantsirs, which will be primary targets for drones, they could make quite a massacre to the drones. Even if they hit Uran-9, no one is dead as they are unmanned robots. Using whole battery enable them to cover each other.
In other roles for ground operations, most probably Uran-9 units will be used in combination with recce drones, UCAVs and kamikaze drones. Some drones could be used as retranslators for extending communication and control with robots.
New ammunition with APFSDS and air burst rounds for 30 mm gun will made them very effective against any target.
It could definitely use some enhanced power anti-drone guns, which help it save ammunition when fighting aerial drones.
GarryB- Posts : 38992
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Even if they hit Uran-9, no one is dead as they are unmanned robots. Using whole battery enable them to cover each other.
Plus with no one on board their internal parts can be purged with nitrogen so it wont catch fire. The light armour seems to be to stop small arms fire and fragments, which means even a successful strike by a suicide drone means any damaged parts can be removed and replaced and it can go back into service very quickly.
On a fixed base you could command the vehicle to perhaps drive to an underground covered workshop for repair while driving out a replacement vehicle to continue operations while that vehicle is being repaired...
It could definitely use some enhanced power anti-drone guns, which help it save ammunition when fighting aerial drones.
They wont be laser accurate, but it should not be too hard using laser activated fuses to fire a burst of 30mm cannon shells to get close to a drone and set them off so their directed fragments have a good chance of showering the drone in hot high velocity fragments.
Would also be useful against enemy troops attacking, and would be especially useful if it was designed to penetrate light structures and then explode if the laser fuse is not set off, so you get an APHE if it is going to hit the target directly... drone or otherwise.
magnumcromagnon- Posts : 8138
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magnumcromagnon- Posts : 8138
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magnumcromagnon- Posts : 8138
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Like something out of Red Alert, The-Thing-Next-Door will enjoy this lol! 
PapaDragon- Posts : 13275
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This thing has so many cameras I can't believe you guys were arguing over it
Chassis alone has central package plus two on the sides and over a dozen on weapons station
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Russia’s latest Udar robot to learn to fight on its own and interact with drones
The Udar robot has been developed on the basis of the BMP-3 infantry fighting vehicle
MOSCOW, February 11. /TASS/. Russia’s latest Udar robotic vehicle will be capable of moving on the battlefield autonomously and interacting with drones, Armament Cluster Industrial Director at the state tech corporation Rostec Bekkhan Ozdoyev told TASS on Thursday.
The operational prototype of the Udar robotic system has been developed by the Signal All-Russian Scientific Research Institute within High Precision Systems Company integrated into Rostec.
"When developing the Udar, the enterprise’s specialists tested the possibility of the robot’s movements in the autonomous mode. For this purpose, the vehicle integrates a motion planning subsystem based on sensors and measuring devices. Based on the data received, the robot’s route is formed, taking into account terrain features, and combat assignment parameters can be calculated," he said.
In developing robotic combat vehicles, the Signal Research Institute uses a unified robotics principle that implies outfitting existing models of military hardware with a set of equipment, the press office of High Precision Systems said.
"The Udar robot, for example, has been developed on the basis of the BMP-3 infantry fighting vehicle. The same principle is used to robotize combat compartments: as of today, six different combat compartments mounted on the vehicle have been robotized," it said.
The Udar robot can also interact with unmanned aerial vehicles, the Rostec executive said.
"We tested inter-operability with drones, including the tethered type with the electric power supply from the robot itself. Such drones can be used for conducting further reconnaissance and relaying the control radio channel," Ozdoyev added.
The robotic vehicle has been tested in inter-operability with lightweight robots designated for conducting reconnaissance, blowing up targets, transporting cargoes and evacuating the wounded.
"A lightweight robot is mounted on or in the rear of the Udar vehicle and has a mechanism of simplified automatic undocking from the carrier before starting the fulfillment of the assigned task," the Signal Research Institute specified.
The Udar robot based on the BMP-3 infantry fighting vehicle was unveiled at the Russian Defense Ministry’s Innovation Day exhibition in 2015.
https://tass.com/defense/1255189
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The-thing-next-door- Posts : 1292
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magnumcromagnon wrote:Like something out of Red Alert, The-Thing-Next-Door will enjoy this lol!
I have always loved the Uran-9.
It has more firepower than most western IFV's on a nice deployable and expendable package, perfect for denying thoes slimy urban bushwackers any hope of a sustainable attrition rate.
Too sensible to come out of retarded alert though, that game's portrayal of the Soviet Union was just too far detached from any version of the Russian military in history for me to take seriously. If I am going to play a sci-fi version of the Red Army then I demand a faction with overwhelmingly powerful energy weapons aswel as very potent fire support and air defence so that I can actually play a faction that has atleast some Russian tendencies.
Obviously in an RTS you cannot just copy and paste the Russian army as the faction would then be too versatile, you could atleast preserve some of the most iconic aspects such as thier technological supremacy and fire support equipment.
franco- Posts : 6707
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Just posted an article here: Post n°38 Russian Armed Forces tactics in Future conflicts - Page 2
and after looking at the Uran-9, perhaps those are planned to be used by the new assault engineer units.
and after looking at the Uran-9, perhaps those are planned to be used by the new assault engineer units.
magnumcromagnon- Posts : 8138
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Russia’s latest Udar robot to learn to fight on its own and interact with drones.
The Udar robot has been developed on the basis of the BMP-3 infantry fighting vehicle.
MOSCOW, February 11. /TASS/. Russia’s latest Udar robotic vehicle will be capable of moving on the battlefield autonomously and interacting with drones, Armament Cluster Industrial Director at the state tech corporation Rostec Bekkhan Ozdoyev told TASS on Thursday.
The operational prototype of the Udar robotic system has been developed by the Signal All-Russian Scientific Research Institute within High Precision Systems Company integrated into Rostec.
"When developing the Udar, the enterprise’s specialists tested the possibility of the robot’s movements in the autonomous mode. For this purpose, the vehicle integrates a motion planning subsystem based on sensors and measuring devices. Based on the data received, the robot’s route is formed, taking into account terrain features, and combat assignment parameters can be calculated," he said
In developing robotic combat vehicles, the Signal Research Institute uses a unified robotics principle that implies outfitting existing models of military hardware with a set of equipment, the press office of High Precision Systems said.
"The Udar robot, for example, has been developed on the basis of the BMP-3 infantry fighting vehicle. The same principle is used to robotize combat compartments: as of today, six different combat compartments mounted on the vehicle have been robotized," it said.
The Udar robot can also interact with unmanned aerial vehicles, the Rostec executive said.
"We tested inter-operability with drones, including the tethered type with the electric power supply from the robot itself. Such drones can be used for conducting further reconnaissance and relaying the control radio channel," Ozdoyev added.
The robotic vehicle has been tested in inter-operability with lightweight robots designated for conducting reconnaissance, blowing up targets, transporting cargoes and evacuating the wounded.
"A lightweight robot is mounted on or in the rear of the Udar vehicle and has a mechanism of simplified automatic undocking from the carrier before starting the fulfillment of the assigned task," the Signal Research Institute specified.
The Udar robot based on the BMP-3 infantry fighting vehicle was unveiled at the Russian Defense Ministry’s Innovation Day exhibition in 2015.
https://tass.com/defense/1255189
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What I do not understand is why the BMP-3 based teletanks do not have anywhere near as much firepower per ton as the Uran-9, some variants do not even surpass the Uran.
I remember I once had the idea of putting 2 heavy autocannon RWS modules in the commander and gunner positions of of a converted T-72. That way you could have two 30mm autocannon engaging separate targets in addition to the main gun and since the crew would be well away form the front lines the increased crew count would not be as great a risk.
I remember I once had the idea of putting 2 heavy autocannon RWS modules in the commander and gunner positions of of a converted T-72. That way you could have two 30mm autocannon engaging separate targets in addition to the main gun and since the crew would be well away form the front lines the increased crew count would not be as great a risk.
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What I do not understand is why the BMP-3 based teletanks do not have anywhere near as much firepower per ton as the Uran-9, some variants do not even surpass the Uran.
Perhaps they are still in the testing/ experimental phase, when the tech improves and reliability of the systems are confirmed then maybe they will start introducing more features. Also, I think the BMP-3 is just a temporary platform, the main vehicles where these automated technologies will be introduced are most likely Armata.
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