Project 21631: Buyan-M missile ship

mnztr wrote:These are really nice ships, versatile, and incredibly deadly for their size.

Best of all they started as rock bottom river gunboats before some madlad decided to strap some cruise missiles on them and created entirely new naval doctrine in the process

Russia should keep the production line at Zelenodolsk open. They have done a good job of delivering the ships on time and on budget.

PapaDragon wrote:

mnztr wrote:These are really nice ships, versatile, and incredibly deadly for their size.

Best of all they started as rock bottom river gunboats before some madlad decided to strap some cruise missiles on them and created entirely new naval doctrine in the process  

Yes imagine, a ship less then 1K tons can strike 2500 km away. That is insane.

mnztr wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:

mnztr wrote:These are really nice ships, versatile, and incredibly deadly for their size.

Best of all they started as rock bottom river gunboats before some madlad decided to strap some cruise missiles on them and created entirely new naval doctrine in the process  

Yes imagine, a ship less then 1K tons can strike 2500 km away. That is insane.

Its only the gun on the front that gives it a sense of scale, how small it is.

mnztr wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:

mnztr wrote:These are really nice ships, versatile, and incredibly deadly for their size.

Best of all they started as rock bottom river gunboats before some madlad decided to strap some cruise missiles on them and created entirely new naval doctrine in the process  

Yes imagine, a ship less then 1K tons can strike 2500 km away. That is insane.

And those cruise missiles also carry nuclear warheads...

medo wrote:
And those cruise missiles also carry nuclear warheads...

I think you meant to say "And those cruise missiles COULD carry nuclear warheads"

But I think it unlikely, too high a risk.

Any Russian or American missile larger than Harpoon/Uran can carry nuclear warhead

They achieved insane levels of miniaturisation long ago, others are nowhere near that, they need pickup truck to carry what Russians and American can fit in a duffel bag   

But yeah, they don't carry them here, too risky

Kinda hoping they introduce Zirkon to service with another Caspian -> Al Qaeda & Friends in Syria bang.
At 1000km range Idlib is out of range but from just off Iran in SW corner (I never saw clear indication of where the original Caspian strike was actually launched from) they could hit most of the area along the North border & there's plenty of Al Qaeda & friends there to be targets.

Not worth it... 30 minutes after the impact there will be US special forces combing the area for missile parts and evidence... and for what... a boom that could have been delivered by a Tu-22M3 or Su-24.

GarryB wrote:Not worth it... 30 minutes after the impact there will be US special forces combing the area for missile parts and evidence... and for what... a boom that could have been delivered by a Tu-22M3 or Su-24.

Once scramjet missiles will be acquired in numbers, one can use idlib to dump previous generation ramjet ones in a fast way.

30 minutes after the impact there will be US special forces combing the area for missile parts and evidence...

Good point

Once scramjet missiles will be acquired in numbers, one can use idlib to dump previous generation ramjet ones in a fast way.

The amusing thing is that they would be almost as interested in the ramjet ones as the scramjet ones...

In the 1990s the Germans and the French created a project to develop and produce a light tactical missile called ANS or something.

It was going to be an 800kg missile that flew at mach 2.5 to about 90km for destroying radar and ships and was going to use a combined rocket ramjet propulsion system where the solid rocket fuel was located in the core of the ramjet, so on launch the solid rocket fuel burned and accelerated the missile to climb and when it burned out the empty space left behind was the ramjet combustion chamber which then lit up and carried the missile to the target.

It ended up going nowhere of course even though the Soviets had the Kh-31 a decade before with a launch weight of 600kg and a flight range of 110km and a speed of mach 3 with a combined rocket ramjet engine.

The American Navy wanted a supersonic low flying missile to test its air defences so it created a competition to get a low flying supersonic anti ship missile hoping the Russians would sell them Moskits or Granits or Vulcans... they offered the MA-31 an early model Kh-31 of average performance... but it was still way better than US competition and won.

They learned their Phalanxs were useless against sea skimming missiles because of multipath returns from the water so they developed the SEA RAM for CIWS protection.

My favorite ships. Cheap, reliable, universally usable, strongly armed.

I would wish that generation 3 TorM2U gets with 2x8 and AK630 plus 1x8 kalib as before. I do not trust the PantsirM.

Maybe even stronger drives with more knots and a little more seaworthiness despite the preservation of the Wolga ability.

I do not trust the PantsirM.

What is wrong with PantsirM?

For 20% of their loadout they could have the quarter sized missiles for light drones and minor threats like subsonic Harpoons and Tomahawks.

Just another expert who thinks the russian Navy just put something on a ship that was laying around at the harbor without testing it before.

..or who believes the utter BS smears targeting Pantsir as a result of combat losses in the ME or elsewhere.  When low-skill users deploy Pantsir on an individual basis and inadequately supported and provisioned, there will be losses.  Big deal.  Thats war.  

The only people who really believe that Turkish drones have "proved" that Pantsir is "junk" are all perennial Russophobes who hate Russia cuz she exists....

Karakurts are not replacing Buyans. Karakurts are made for high sea operations, while Buyans are sea-river class.

Build by different yards. Huge possibility that more Buyan-M´s will be ordered after the 12th has been delivered.

GarryB wrote:

I do not trust the PantsirM.

What is wrong with PantsirM?

For 20% of their loadout they could have the quarter sized missiles for light drones and minor threats like subsonic Harpoons and Tomahawks.

The experiences in Syria show that only TORM 2 actually acts almost certain and every threat killt. This also has the better radar what I really decisive is for ships.  Better take a little more money in hand but have proper air defense and ship protection.

Big_Gazza wrote:..or who believes the utter BS smears targeting Pantsir as a result of combat losses in the ME or elsewhere. When low-skill users deploy Pantsir on an individual basis and inadequately supported and provisioned, there will be losses. Big deal. Thats war.

The only people who really believe that Turkish drones have "proved" that Pantsir is "junk" are all perennial Russophobes who hate Russia cuz she exists....

Is your horizon so small? It's all about threats like Delia, Spike, Harpon, C-802, etc. and not just about "Turkish drones". This also includes RQ-170 and other. Better radar, better rockets, better protection for the ship.

Hole wrote:Build by different yards. Huge possibility that more Buyan-M´s will be ordered after the 12th has been delivered.

Not likely

Both have engine production problems

Plus shipyard that made Buyans landed order for over a dozen logistics ships, they will be busy for a while

PapaDragon wrote:

Hole wrote:Build by different yards. Huge possibility that more Buyan-M´s will be ordered after the 12th has been delivered.

Not likely

Both have engine production problems

Plus shipyard that made Buyans landed order for over a dozen logistics ships, they will be busy for a while

Engine production problems? Is this regarding that situation where Zvezda refused to allow others to produce the engine yet they themselves can't deliver on time?

Yeah, the legendary diesel disaster