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    Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

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    magnumcromagnon

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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Fri Feb 14, 2014 10:01 pm

    Arrow wrote:


    Or Zirconia ? U.S. hypersonic missile program is more advanced than the Russian?

    ...I don't think so:




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    collegeboy16

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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  collegeboy16 on Sun Feb 16, 2014 6:55 am

    the us would be probably more advanced in terms of ambition- and funding ofc. Expect them to have prompt global strike a few years after S-500 is widespread tho it would be prohibitively expensive like stealth has been at first. Oth Yasens with scramjet missiles will enter soon and while not as prompt as pgs, smarter planning and positioning would allow them to functon like so.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  GarryB on Sun Feb 16, 2014 9:03 am

    When Zirconium is ready the Russian Navy will have a range of new and upgraded ships fitted with the UKSK launcher to fire it.

    From corvette to carrier and submarine... most will have the capacity to carry these hypersonic missiles...

    Arrow

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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  Arrow on Sun Feb 16, 2014 10:02 am

    When Zircona will be start testing ?
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  GarryB on Wed Feb 19, 2014 11:04 am

    Arrow wrote:When Zircona will be start testing ?

    I would suspect they will have tested a few components already and also had some combined tests too... in the early 1990s they tested scramjet engines on the nose of SA-5 Gammon missiles where the small scramjet engines were fitted to the nose of the missiles that were fired conventionally up to high altitude and high speed and then the scramjet is started.

    The test I read about had the scramjet operating for just over one minute with the test missile accelerating from mach 5 to mach 7 and travelling 180km.

    the photos of the launch vehicle are amusing as the tiny scramjet on the nose really looks too small to drag that huge missile from Mach 5 to Mach 7.

    Here is a photo:

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    Morpheus Eberhardt

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    Zircon missile

    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt on Sat Feb 22, 2014 3:00 am

    GarryB wrote:
    Arrow wrote:When Zircona will be start testing ?

    I would suspect they will have tested a few components already and also had some combined tests too... in the early 1990s they tested scramjet engines on the nose of SA-5 Gammon missiles where the small scramjet engines were fitted to the nose of the missiles that were fired conventionally up to high altitude and high speed and then the scramjet is started.

    The test I read about had the scramjet operating for just over one minute with the test missile accelerating from mach 5 to mach 7 and travelling 180km.

    the photos of the launch vehicle are amusing as the tiny scramjet on the nose really looks too small to drag that huge missile from Mach 5 to Mach 7.

    Here is a photo:


    Garry,

    Did you read it on the http://www.russianspaceweb.com/index.html. Of course, “his” description is incorrect on many fronts.

    The vehicle shown was a test vehicle (I think called GLA). As such, the scamjet wasn’t even provided with a nozzle to produce any meaningful thrust, not that it couldn’t be provided with one; it just wasn’t needed for this test. Due to this fact, the delta V provided by the fully functioning scramjet was around zero.

    At the same time I should mention that the missiles used by the S-200 reach Mach 10, and as I remember, during these tests, part of the trajectory was flown at Mach 9.

    AW&ST had an article about these tests about 20 years ago.


    Last edited by Morpheus Eberhardt on Sat Feb 22, 2014 4:37 am; edited 2 times in total
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    sepheronx

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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  sepheronx on Sat Aug 09, 2014 8:07 pm

    So do you guys think that once US places bases in Ukraine, that Russia will restart Kh-90 Program?
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    magnumcromagnon

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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sat Aug 09, 2014 8:29 pm

    sepheronx wrote:So do you guys think that once US places bases in Ukraine, that Russia will restart Kh-90 Program?

    The program stopped because of the INF treaty, yet another reason to leave the treaty.

    Firebird

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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  Firebird on Sun Aug 10, 2014 1:48 am

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:So do you guys think that once US places bases in Ukraine, that Russia will restart Kh-90 Program?

    The program stopped because of the INF treaty, yet another reason to leave the treaty.

    Surely Yank bases in Hohol-land would be a red line?
    Just as Russian nukes in Cuba were.

    Esp given that 50% of the Ukraine HATES Uncle Sham.

    Vann7

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    hypersonic missile

    Post  Vann7 on Tue Aug 19, 2014 8:24 am

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:So do you guys think that once US places bases in Ukraine, that Russia will restart Kh-90 Program?

    The program stopped because of the INF treaty, yet another reason to leave the treaty.

    Russia never learn.. US never follow any treaties.. they should scrap any treaty with the west and show the middle finger.. US for example get away with the nuclear maximum number of nukes treaty as far i heard ,by deploying
    them in Europe in allies territory.. You all have heard which one are the nuclear powers.. a list less than 10.. but in reality is far more.. US give nukes to Israel , and they have nukes in Italy and in Turkey..Saudi Arabia ,Kuwait .

    So in a theory just for the sake of discussion ,in an imaginary nuclear war ,a nuclear interchange , that US mainland destroyed , US can continue operating from its military in European nations and middle east and Asia.. For Russia to really end US military capability it needs to either neutralize all their military bases around the world..which will be incredibly expensive Or simply Invade US mainland with the help of China and split the nation in parts. But a much more clever way will be to simply collapse US dollar and provoke a civil war ,and supply weapons to the separatist.

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    Viktor

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    A few words about the new heavy rocket

    Post  Viktor on Fri Oct 17, 2014 6:36 pm

    This mighty system once done will be placed under ADF jurisdiction so here are some great news Very Happy

    Excellent article in general.

    A few words about the new heavy rocket

    but here are the highlights Very Happy

    . However, the principal novelty is not to put on a high-explosive rocket or fragmentation of - too expensive and inefficient event, especially with regard to heavy missile system. As a result of the joint work of the military and professionals DIC was invited to a landmark decision. The novelty lies in the high combat effectiveness due to the merger of three technologies: classical missile, a hypersonic gliding and fundamentally new warhead.

    All these technologies exist and tested

    This will provide greater flexibility in the application of combat various conditions and the development of military conflict. rocket will be equipped with several hypersonic maneuverable units of the third generation, on which work is carried out in parallel with the now already summer products of the second generation now passing tests for other RK. The first was the "Albatross". Second-generation products that pass the test now, though, and fly, but still have a number of important childhood diseases of the new technology.

    And here is a picture that describes new Russian wonder-weapon russia



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    nemrod

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    [Prompt Global Strikes] Russian Fear of U.S. Hypersonic Missiles Threatens New Arms Race

    Post  nemrod on Tue Feb 17, 2015 11:41 am

    At first, before posting I look for PGS, or Prompt Global Strikes, and I did not find such topic here. To admins and and moderators, instead of having redunding topics relating the same things, if it exists another topic about PGS, thx to move this subject in the appropriate area -if the subjet is move, please pm me and tell me where you move it-.

    My question is:
    What are the responses of russians ? SS-9 ?


    http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/russian-fear-of-u-s-hypersonic-missiles-threatens-new-arms-race/515863.html



    Russian Fear of U.S. Hypersonic Missiles Threatens New Arms Race

    By Matthew Bodner
    Feb. 12 2015 20:13
    Last edited 20:13

    Yevgeny Stetsko / VedomostiAnother piece of the Russian hypersonic puzzle may have been unveiled last week, when President Vladimir Putin signed an order uniting Russia's largest defense contractor, the Almaz-Antey air-defense concern, with several smaller military space firms.

    While conflict between the United States and Russia over Ukraine has raised talk of a new Cold War, another feature of that era has also begun to re-emerge — the missile race.

    A new arms rivalry between Russia and the United States is heating up as the two major military powers rush to develop a new class of hypersonic, non-nuclear missiles that can strike any target on the globe within one hour of launch with devastating accuracy.

    The United States is leading the chase for the new weapons, which Russia firmly believes poses a significant threat to its own nuclear missile forces.

    "Russia considers this trend as a path to obtaining [non-nuclear] means of depriving Russia of its deterrent capability," Dr. Eugene Miasnikov, director of the Moscow-based Center for Arms Control, Energy and Environmental Studies told The Moscow Times.

    Russia's sensitivity to threats to its nuclear deterrence could lead it to mistake a hypersonic missile launch as the opening moves of a larger attack, some analysts say, arguing that the weapons are so destabilizing that their mere development could spark a nuclear war between major powers.
    Hypersonic Weapons 101

    Hypersonic missiles are being developed in the United States as part of the Conventional Prompt Global Strike program, a loosely defined Department of Defense initiative to develop the capability to accurately hit targets with non-nuclear intercontinental missiles in record time.

    The idea has its roots in U.S. post-9/11 counter-terrorism strategy, when the United States decided it needed the capability to hit targets as soon as they had been located.

    To date, a reported $1 billion has been spent on the Conventional Prompt Global Strike program. A few billion dollars more would likely be needed to attain true hypersonic capability, according to James Acton, a senior associate in the Nuclear Policy Program at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace.

    The most prominent example of hypersonic weapons currently in development are so-called "boost-glide" weapons.

    These are missiles that, instead of arcing into space before coming down on their target, are fired at a shallow trajectory that barely exits the atmosphere. After reaching a hypersonic speed, the missile's warhead is released and glides the rest of the way to its objective.

    As the weapon begins to glide, its relatively shallow angle of approach makes it extremely difficult to track and defend against — a detail Russia's leadership finds troubling.
    Lockheed Martin

    A computer rendering of a U.S. hypersonic test vehicle. The missile's casing is falling away to allow the black warhead to detach and plunge back into the earth's atmosphere.

    Russian Answer

    While hypersonic weapons are still in the development phase, they have already raised the prospect that Russia might pull out of Cold War nuclear arms treaties with the United States.

    President Vladimir Putin in 2013 warned that the hypersonic missile development "could negate all previous agreements on the limitation and reduction of strategic nuclear weapons, thereby disrupting the strategic balance of power."

    Nuclear arms control agreements between Russia and the United States have only gotten shakier since then.

    In July of last year, amid the tensions of the Ukraine crisis, Washington suggested Moscow had violated the 1987 Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty (INF), which bans an entire class of nuclear missiles.

    In October, Putin told Serbian newspaper Politika that he considered Western sanctions over Ukraine an attempt to "blackmail Russia" and that the West should "remember the risks that a spat between major nuclear powers incurs for strategic stability," news agency Reuters reported.

    Little information is available on the state of Russia's domestic hypersonic program, but the head of Russia's Tactical Missiles Corporation, Boris Obnosov, said last year the company is working with dozens of firms to implement a development program for a hypersonic missile. The Tactical Missiles Cooperation produces many of Russia's guided missile systems.

    Another piece of the Russian hypersonic puzzle may have been unveiled last week, when President Vladimir Putin signed an order uniting Russia's largest defense contractor, the Almaz-Antey air-defense concern, with several smaller military space firms.

    Though not directly related to the development of hypersonic missiles, the move might signal a greater focus on developing defense against the weapons.

    Almaz-Antey did not respond to a request for comment.
    Moscow's Fears

    The United States seems so far to have failed to allay Moscow's fears that the missiles are being developed to target Russia rather than terrorist hideouts, said Carnegie's Acton.

    Moscow has already worked hypersonic missiles into its long-standing grievances against the United States — including NATO expansion and the placement of missile defense systems in Europe.

    "My biggest concern is that Russia will mistake a U.S. [hypersonic] attack against a neighboring state as an attack against Russia," said Acton.

    Because the weapons do not follow ballistic trajectories, but glide and maneuver their way to the target, it is possible that Moscow would become confused about the missile's objective and believe Russia was the intended target. This would lead to a serious escalation of international tensions, and possibly provoke a counterattack.

    But now is a bad time for dialogue. In recent weeks prominent U.S. politicians have advocated arming Kiev against Russian-backed separatists in eastern Ukraine, raising the specter of a proxy war between the two former Cold War enemies.

    Miasnikov said that so long as both sides remain at odds, any developments in the U.S. hypersonic program will be construed in Moscow as a threat.

    In any case, the weapons will be inexorably linked to U.S.-Russia bilateral relations because the way Russia perceives them to threaten its nuclear forces.

    The Pentagon should work to better understand what it needs the weapons in question for, and present Russia with concrete proposals to mitigate the risk in deploying them, according to Acton.

    For Moscow's part, "[it] should respond to such an offer constructively," he said.

    Contact the author at m.bodner@imedia.ru
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    Werewolf

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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  Werewolf on Tue Feb 17, 2015 12:11 pm

    Themoscowtimes belongs to US an NGO camoflauged shit propaganda paper.
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    nemrod

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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  nemrod on Tue Feb 17, 2015 12:37 pm

    Werewolf wrote:Themoscowtimes belongs to US an NGO camoflauged shit propaganda paper.

    Thx Werewolf. I was not aware, it is a very usefull information.
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    Kyo

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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  Kyo on Tue Feb 17, 2015 12:47 pm

    New hypersonic fuel formula created in Russia — Defense Ministry

    The Russian Armed Forces are celebrating Fuel Service Day on Tuesday

    MOSCOW, February 17. /TASS/. Russia has created a fuel formula that will help aircraft exceed a speed of Mach 5, Deputy Defense Minister, Army General Dmitry Bulgakov said on Tuesday.
    The deputy defense minister said Russia is currently developing fuel for hypersonic aircraft.
    "The recipe has been created and the energy accumulated in this fuel will help our aircraft exceed the speed of Mach 5," he said.
    As the Russian Armed Forces are celebrating Fuel Service Day on Tuesday, the deputy defense minister also told reporters about the development of fuel in Russia for a new generation of long-range cruise missiles for the Air Force and the Navy. These developments are the prerogative of the 25th State Research Institute of Chemmotology, the deputy defense minister said.
    Specialists of this institute have used aluminum nano-particles to develop a number of rocket fuel components with a density and energy capacity boosted by almost 20%, which helps increase the payload, he said.
    Besides, the institute continues developing raw materials alternative to oil, he said. Specifically, the institute is testing a sample of synthetic oil and aviation fuel based on natural gas and research is underway to obtain motor fuel from coal, the deputy defense minister said.
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    ahmedfire

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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  ahmedfire on Tue Feb 17, 2015 1:34 pm

    AFAIK the longest distance that US supersonic traveled was 426 km and 5.1 mach ,the missile destroyed and they descibed it as a complete success !

    The general director of the corporation "Tactical Missiles" said that Samples hypersonic weapon systems, which reached Mach 8.6 speed, should appear before the end of 2020.

    I think Russia doesn't need such technology ,for what ? Russia needs to spend this money on more practical weapons to create a complete high tech military ,
    Also i prefer to spend my money to improve my health than to invest on such a weapon that is bullsh!t for me .
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    ahmedfire

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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  ahmedfire on Tue Feb 17, 2015 1:40 pm

    Five mach aircraft ! , it can escape from any present air to air/ ground to air missile Smile
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    magnumcromagnon

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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Tue Feb 17, 2015 2:26 pm

    ahmedfire wrote:Five mach aircraft ! , it can escape from any present air to air/ ground to air missile Smile

    Nah, S-400 is capable of intercepting Mach 16 targets, and S-500 will be capable of intercepting Mach 21 targets.
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    ahmedfire

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    New hypersonic fuel formula created in Russia — Defense Ministry

    Post  ahmedfire on Tue Feb 17, 2015 4:13 pm

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    ahmedfire wrote:Five mach aircraft ! , it can escape from any present air to air/ ground to air missile Smile

    Nah, S-400 is capable of intercepting Mach 16 targets, and S-500 will be capable of intercepting Mach 21 targets.

    Yes,but that's in case S-400 intercepts Russian aircrafts
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    Viktor

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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  Viktor on Wed Feb 18, 2015 5:57 pm

    Beacuse US lags in hypersonic defenses ... now Russia is pressing on with its hypersonic cruise missiles Very Happy

    New Russian Fuel Would Allow Missiles To Fly Faster Than Five Times The Speed Of Sound, Could Increase Tensions With US
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    George1

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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  George1 on Wed Feb 18, 2015 10:21 pm

    i transfer it to strategic rocket and space forces
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    nemrod

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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  nemrod on Wed Feb 18, 2015 10:46 pm

    George1 wrote:i transfer it to strategic rocket and space forces

    Thx George, very good initiative. Very Happy
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    AlfaT8

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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  AlfaT8 on Thu Feb 19, 2015 12:09 am

    Viktor wrote:Beacuse US lags in hypersonic defenses ... now Russia is pressing on with its hypersonic cruise missiles Very Happy

    New Russian Fuel Would Allow Missiles To Fly Faster Than Five Times The Speed Of Sound, Could Increase Tensions With US

    What the, an article from International Business Times, quoting a Moscow Times article, which quotes a TASS article,.... really!!?

    You should have just gone straight to the TASS article for credibilities sakes:
    http://tass.ru/en/russia/778026
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    George1

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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  George1 on Thu Mar 05, 2015 1:43 pm

    Flight test of a Project 4202 vehicle

    Russia appears to have conducted a flight test of the Project 4202 vehicle on February 26, 2015 from one of the silos in Dombarovskiy. Project 4202 is believed to be some kind of a hypersonic vehicle that will be delivered by the UR-100NUTTH/SS-19 missile. (See also the earlier post.)

    Project 4202 launches have never been officially acknowledged, but bits of information appear here and there and there are enough dots to connect, so there is a fairly high degree of certainty that the launch indeed took place. (I must say that I can claim no credit for finding the dots - most of them have been discovered by others.)

    First, TsENKI (Center for Operation of Space Ground-Based Infrastructure) in its 2014 acquisition plan listed two Project 4202-related contracts. In the document, the launch is scheduled to take place in January 2015, but it was later postponed. Industry sources were said to confirm that the test was moved to February.

    And indeed, on February 26, 2015 a note on a Russian site, which is known to be well connected and generally reliable, said something to the effect that a test is upcoming. The post has been removed since, but only after it was updated to say that the test was unsuccessful.

    Finally, a number of people have found a message posted by someone from Yasnyy (which is the name of the city at the Dombarovskiy missile base) later on February 26. The author said that in Yasnyy people felt a missile launch that took place around 13:00 local time (that would be 8:00 UTC).

    The February 26, 2015 launch is not the first flight test of the Project 4202 system - at least one took place around September 26, 2013. It appears that another test took place some time in 2014, maybe in September. All we know about the 2014 test is that there is an unaccounted event in the official record of launches conduced that year (the 2013 4202 launch also was not included in the official account). None of the test appear to have been successful.

    I guess we'll have to wait for a successful flight test to see an official report on Project 4202 and learn more about the system.

    http://russianforces.org/blog/2015/02/flight_test_of_a_project_4202.shtml

    victor1985

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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  victor1985 on Wed Mar 11, 2015 7:40 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    Obviously one problem is propulsion or indeed multiple propulsion systems for different stages of flight.

    The SR-71 showed what could be done in that regard... it uses two large turbojet engines, but in a special arrangement that allows the air to bypass the turbojet engines and just pass through empty tubes to the rear where the after burner is.

    An empty tube with an afterburner on the end is called a ramjet, where air is sucked in and compressed and then fuel is added and ignited generating thrust.

    So you simply use the turbojet engine to get the aircraft into the air and put it in full after burner and climb. As you get faster and faster you start feeding air around the turbojet till eventually all the air is going around the turbojet and you can shut the turbojets down and just run on ramjets.

    At very high speeds turbojets have problems because the rotational speeds of the blades in the engines gets so high the blades break and the engines overheat.

    So, I wonder, how could the heat on a missile tip be conducted thro a missile and then transferred to the propulsion and cooling units?
    Currently, I think insulators are used ie something that will stop the heat spreading into the missile. But surely that is hindering the missile AND a waste of energy?

    There are a few ideas... one is to use materials that remain strong when heated to high temperatures like Titanium, or ceramic materials. Another option is ablative materials like those used on the heat tiles of the Space Shuttle. Yet another option is a porous skin on the leading edge where friction with the air heats the surface, where you can pump fuel through to keep it cool. Rocket nozzles for very large missiles and space rockets use this method to keep the nozzles from melting already so it is not as far fetched as it might sound.

    Obviously there would be problems if you get a fuel blockage and the fuel stopped flowing...

    So getting back to my point,I wonder how could the missile draw friction heat in from the tip to enhance performance( and indeed keep the missile intact)?

    I rather suspect the final answer will be a combination of new heat resistent ceramic materials that use fuel to distribute heat to the fuel tank and could be used to prep the fuel before it goes to the engine.

    Maybe decades into the future,a technology can be developed to absorb laser energy and redirect it towards an attacker?

    Like a mirror? Smile

    like a material that have lack of electrons?

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