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    Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

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    victor1985
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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  victor1985 on Thu Mar 12, 2015 4:33 pm

    In fact study of brownian movemwnt between molecules and atoms should help to this

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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  victor1985 on Thu Mar 12, 2015 4:36 pm

    More specific the interaction forces between molecules

    max steel
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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  max steel on Thu Mar 12, 2015 7:33 pm

    Good news for GarryB to cheer upon  cheers



    The intermediate nuclear force (INF) Soviet-US treaty of 1987 that outlawed the intermediate and shorter range missiles is not falling apart yet, but tensions over it are soaring high, the director of the Russian Foreign Ministry’s non-proliferation and arms control department, Mikhail Ulyanov, told a news conference . Garry's wish might come true .  sniper  sunny




    http://tass.ru/en/russia/782155


    Last edited by max steel on Fri Mar 13, 2015 12:04 pm; edited 1 time in total

    GarryB
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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  GarryB on Fri Mar 13, 2015 12:26 am

    Sorry for off topic but why do people spell Garry with only one r?

    Harry, Larry, Barry, the word carry and the word marry all have two rs in them.

    In fact when you take one r out of the word marry it becomes Mary which is pronounced completely differently from marry or Garry or Larry etc etc.

    Not that it is hugely bothersome as it has happened most of my life.


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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  Werewolf on Fri Mar 13, 2015 12:27 am

    Why not call you B or Gaz? Cool

    Big_Gazza
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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  Big_Gazza on Fri Mar 13, 2015 1:47 pm

    Werewolf wrote:Why not call you B or Gaz? Cool

    Seconded... Very Happy

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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Fri Mar 13, 2015 2:18 pm

    Or how about, Mig-GarryBM?

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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  George1 on Sat Mar 14, 2015 4:54 pm

    Russia hopes to have hypersonic missile in 2020

    As the Defense Ministry said later Russia had already created a formula of the propellant required for accelerating missiles to such speeds

    MOSCOW, March 13. /TASS/. Russia’s Perspective Research Foundation (FPI) is creating an integrated system of modeling for the development of hypersonic aircraft. The system will be made entirely of domestically produced computation modules, the fund’s deputy general director, Vitaly Davydov, told TASS.

    Last spring there were reports that the program for creating hypersonic missile technologies in Russia had been finalized already and the first hypersonic missile is to be delivered by 2020. Hypersonic vehicles are expected to fly five times faster than the speed of sound (Mach 5). As the Defense Ministry said later Russia had already created a formula of the propellant required for accelerating missiles to such speeds.

    "Now we’ve got to pool efforts by all research centers and organizations operating in that field. For that there should be created one center accumulating all research data and making them available to the contractors concerned. In our opinion there should be no situations in which some researchers have achieved success in thermal or aerodynamic computations, but nobody can use them, because there is no access," Davydov explained.

    He believes that the project will make it possible to create a national library of software for supercomputers capable of performing full functional modeling of hypersonic flight vehicles in the interests of all manufacturers involved.

    victor1985
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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  victor1985 on Sat Mar 14, 2015 8:15 pm

    Can a rocket have wind pressure sensors?

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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  GarryB on Sat Mar 14, 2015 10:50 pm

    Or how about, Mig-GarryBM?

    Arrgh... do you mean MiG?

    Can a rocket have wind pressure sensors?

    Of course...


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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  Rmf on Mon Mar 16, 2015 12:23 am

    George1 wrote:Russia hopes to have hypersonic missile in 2020

    As the Defense Ministry said later Russia had already created a formula of the propellant required for accelerating missiles to such speeds

    MOSCOW, March 13. /TASS/. Russia’s Perspective Research Foundation (FPI) is creating an integrated system of modeling for the development of hypersonic aircraft. The system will be made entirely of domestically produced computation modules, the fund’s deputy general director, Vitaly Davydov, told TASS.

    Last spring there were reports that the program for creating hypersonic missile technologies in Russia had been finalized already and the first hypersonic missile is to be delivered by 2020. Hypersonic vehicles are expected to fly five times faster than the speed of sound (Mach 5). As the Defense Ministry said later Russia had already created a formula of the propellant required for accelerating missiles to such speeds.

    "Now we’ve got to pool efforts by all research centers and organizations operating in that field. For that there should be created one center accumulating all research data and making them available to the contractors concerned. In our opinion there should be no situations in which some researchers have achieved success in thermal or aerodynamic computations, but nobody can use them, because there is no access," Davydov explained.

    He believes that the project will make it possible to create a national library of software for supercomputers capable of performing full functional modeling of hypersonic flight vehicles in the interests of all manufacturers involved.

    still hopeing. ...
    probably just hydrogen ,or some mix of hydrogen and other conventional fuel . hypersonic combustion is very unstable and complicated.

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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  GarryB on Mon Mar 16, 2015 9:52 am

    Actually supersonic combustion is tricky at the moment... ramjets are widespread and other jet engine types all use subsonic combustion.

    Scramjet or super sonic combustion ram jet engines will expand the operational range for jet engines from takeoff to orbital speeds of mach 25 and beyond...

    Modern jet engines use ramps in the inlets to reduce the speed of incoming air so when it goes through the turbojet engine it is subsonic where the fuel can be burned.

    The F-16 is limited to mach 2 because it has a simple air intake that doesn't slow the air down so at about mach 2 it stops generating more thrust and chokes on the incoming supersonic air.

    The Mach 3.5 capable SR-71 on the other hand uses its turbojets to get up to speed and altitude, but uses bypass air not going through but going around the turbojet engines for thrust at speeds above mach 2. This means that although it can fly at mach 3.5 the air going through the turbojet engines is the bare minimum to keep them idling when it is flying at top speed.

    In comparison the engines in the MiG-25 are really straining at mach 2.8 generating all the thrust.

    If it goes much faster than mach 2.8 the engine can overspeed with the enormous rotational force of the blades ripping them apart and permanently damaging them.

    Obviously the MiG-41 will need at the very least ramjets, and preferably scramjets to fly routinely at mach 4.3.


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    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  Rmf on Sun Mar 22, 2015 12:05 pm

    in those cases what you have is slowdown of incoming air and rising of pressure and temparature , which is good for combustion and flame front is stabile.
    in hypersonic scramjet you dont slow that much incoming air and pressure inside combustion chamber is less , also air is going soo fast that you must finish combustion inside it requireing lighter molecules like hydrogen which are problematic for storage , so you say why not make the tube longer but ah you have to let products expand and get out of scramjet or it will choke it.
    stable and continuos combustion is holy grail in scramjet, pulsating front-back flames are very common ,dangerous ,and can put out combustion , usually on scramjet periphery there is another tube with small area or ring where 10-20% of incoming air is slowed to subsonic speed like in ramjet so it puts stabile flame on outer edges of scramjet. scramjets are getting very complicated.

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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  Big_Gazza on Sun Mar 22, 2015 2:02 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    The Mach 3.5 capable SR-71 on the other hand uses its turbojets to get up to speed and altitude, but uses bypass air not going through but going around the turbojet engines for thrust at speeds above mach 2. This means that although it can fly at mach 3.5 the air going through the turbojet engines is the bare minimum to keep them idling when it is flying at top speed.

    FWIW this was why the SR-71 was notorious for engine "unstarts"...   small disturbances to the air flow could result in engine flame-outs.  Apparently the pilots determined which engines stalled by which window their helmets slammed into as the aircraft slewed violently - the right window meant the left engine stalled, and vice-versa for the left.

    Did the Soviets (or Russians) ever experiment with an SR-71 style high-mach bypass engine?

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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  GarryB on Mon Mar 23, 2015 8:56 am

    Well they have been experimenting with ramjets forever... in fact I have seen ramjets mounted on the I-15 Polikarpov biplane... apparently it added about 45km/h to the top speed of the aircraft.

    For the MiG-25 and MiG-31 they used standard turbofans for propulsion with the latter having a higher bypass ratio for improved performance, but I suspected the Stillborn T-4 might have needed some form of ramjet assistance as it was a Mach 3 bomber and conventional turbojets really don't work well on their own above mach 2.8 or so.


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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  Rmf on Mon Mar 23, 2015 9:42 pm

    at such slow speeds byplane flyes ,there isnt much thrust from ramjet and its usefulness is low.
    actually before ww2 very litle is mentioned- but korolev worked on liquid fueled cruise missile ,a roket powered cruise missile if you will , korolev got injured in test and arrested soon afterwards ... glushko was maker of the engine nitric acid+kerosine. project 212.

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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Tue Mar 24, 2015 8:27 pm

    Interesting read:

    High-precision missile strategic weapon

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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  George1 on Thu Apr 30, 2015 8:15 am

    Pentagon Awards $20Mln Hypersonic Missile Contract to Raytheon

    The US Defense Department’s research agency granted defense company Raytheon a $20 million contract to develop technology that will allow missile guidance systems to fly more than five times faster than the speed of sound, Raytheon said in a press release on Wednesday.

    WASHINGTON (Sputnik) — The new missiles would have to withstand intense heat while remaining highly maneuverable, and would require sensor packages to engage moving targets, the release added.

    “The Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA) has awarded Raytheon Company a $20,489,714 million contract… to develop and demonstrate the technology to enable air-launched hypersonic boost glide systems,” the release said.

    Raytheon’s tactical boost glide system, according to the release, will fly at speeds faster than Mach 5, and at altitudes of nearly 200,000 feet.

    “Hypersonic weapons would be difficult to intercept, and would enable warfighters to strike targets at long range much more quickly than current missile technology allows,” the release said.

    To achieve the required speeds, re-entry vehicles would be designed to skip across the inside of the Earth's upper atmosphere before descending on their targets.

    In January 2015, the CEO of a Russian missile corporation predicted that Russia would produce hypersonic missiles on a mass scale within 15 years.

    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/military/20150430/1021539428.html#ixzz3YlordYm6

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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  max steel on Thu Apr 30, 2015 8:39 am

    Us catching up in both hypersonic glide vehicles and missiles . I heard they are going for HGV instead of hypersonic missiles .

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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  max steel on Wed Jun 17, 2015 11:42 pm

    Project 4202 DEvelopments





    until 2011 the tests involved an "old" vehicle, referred to as Yu-70 or 102E. The December 2011 tests is by all indication the first one that was done under the Project 4202 program. The vehicle is now known as Yu-71.

    A closer look at the NPOMash web site showed that it worked on a system that is strikingly similar to a hypersonic vehicle system - the Strela launcher and its larger payload. This should give a sense of what the Yu-71 vehicle looks like. In particular, we can see that the launcher with a larger payload sticks out of the standard UR-100NUTTH silo - this is why the new system will be deployed in converted R-36M silos, which are considerably larger.



    Speaking of silo conversions, it is still not clear which one of the Dombarovskiy silos is used for Project 4202 launches. But there is only one silo - east of Yasnny - that has a restricted flight area above it , so it is quite possible that it is the one. Unfortunately, the most recent imagery on Google Earth is from 2009, which is probably before the construction there started in earnest.

    It appears that we are still quite a few years away from seeing the hypersonic vehicle in action, especially given the apparent string of failures in recent tests. The maneuvering part of the flight, which is the whole point of the program, seems to be the most difficult to master. But it is by all indications an active high-priority program, so we will probably see it at some point.


    Meanwhile china's hgv wu-14 performed extreme maneuvers in the latest 4th test . MARV's are without a doubt more viable as an anti-ABM strategy now that the U.S. has chosen the kinetic kill vehicle concept over the nuclear armed interceptor concept. A very slight trajectory shift of no more than a few feet is all that would be required to defeat a kinetic kv. That being said, the continued failures of Russia's MARV program are somewhat baffling. The basic, original MARV concept was simply the standard conical reentry vehicle with 4 simple thrusters flush mounted and arranged 90 degrees from each other. Yet, we now see images of reentry vehicles that look like hypersonic aircraft designs. This seems like an unnecessarily complicated means of making small trajectory shifts. afro

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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  GarryB on Thu Jun 18, 2015 10:47 am

    Small side thrusters are fine for last minute high speed changes of flight path, but having a proper little aircraft design would allow for more manouvering and indeed greater deviations of flight to engage much more widely separated targets...


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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  max steel on Thu Jun 18, 2015 10:41 pm

    Garry any specific resaon you can think of as why only Russia is failing in its Hypersonic Glide Vehicle concept . They started it earlier than chinese and yunks . If russia project 4202 becomes viable it will give russia more advantage over murica's present arsenal . Both china and ussa made it possible . It is the only weapon to be used for Prompt Global Strike .

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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  Teshub on Fri Jun 19, 2015 12:34 am

    max steel wrote:Garry any specific  resaon you can think of as why only Russia is failing in its Hypersonic Glide Vehicle concept . They started it earlier than chinese and yunks . If russia project 4202 becomes viable it will give russia more advantage over murica's present arsenal . Both china and ussa made it possible . It is the only weapon to be used for Prompt Global Strike .
    I'm not Garry, but personally I'd imagine its due to the inability of current materials science to produce a rugged and enduring surface which can survive extended hypersonic speeds in atmosphere, plus the way a plasma sheath screws up both visual sensors and GPS/GLONASS/radio reception to enable accurate guidance whilst still hypersonic.

    From the basis of simple physics its not getting up to speed and aerodynamics which are the problem, its surviving the heat and maintaining accuracy. But if anyone has more in-depth info I'd be happy to be corrected concerning the current engineering difficulties.

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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  GarryB on Fri Jun 19, 2015 11:13 am

    I am Garry and I would ask what you think they are putting in their new ICBMs and calling them protected from ABM attack...

    The US wants a weapon they can use to kill people all around the world when it suits them... the Russians want something that will nullify the US ABM systems where ever they might pop up....

    I can't remember the last time the Russians showed their top secret new ICBM or SLBM warheads,and I expect it will be quite some time before I do.

    I really don't think they will release information so internet warriors can fight on even terms with their US and Chinese counterparts.

    Note that the Zircon is being worked on... I suspect solutions for  Mach 7-8 missiles could be applied to these...


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    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  max steel on Fri Jun 19, 2015 12:05 pm

    well hypersonic glider vehicle can also rattle ussa defenses isnt it ? or it has to be maneuverable to make a successful hit?

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