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    Ukraine-Russia Relations and Future developments

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    Russian Patriot
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    Ukraine-Russia Relations and Future developments

    Post  Russian Patriot on Mon Oct 19, 2009 8:46 pm

    Russian Black Sea Fleet Objects To Ukrainian Checks

    October 18, 2009

    KYIV -- Russian Black Sea Fleet commanders have raised objections to spot checks of their military vehicles by Ukrainian traffic police, RFE/RL's Ukrainian Service reports.

    After two unsanctioned convoys carrying missiles drove through Sevastopol this summer, Ukrainian authorities began checking Russian naval convoys for proper documentation.

    According to Ukrainian-Russian agreements, Ukrainian authorities must be notified of all movements and maneuvers by the Russian Black Sea Fleet and show documents allowing permission for such movements.

    Military sources told RFE/RL that the Russians have once again recently moved a convoy of equipment without proper permission from Ukrainian authorities.

    In recent days the Russian fleet has built a large tent camp between two villages near Sevastopol. Ukrainian military sources say military equipment is being transported to this camp at night.

    The Russian Black Sea Fleet has reportedly moved 12 of its missile systems to the newly built tent camp.


    Source: http://www.rferl.org/content/Russian_Black_Sea_Fleet_Objects_To_Ukrainian_Checks/1854864.html

    Copyright (c) 2009. RFE/RL, Inc. Reprinted with the permission of Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty, 1201 Connecticut Ave., N.W. Washington DC 20036.

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    Russia, Ukraine not seeking changes to Black Sea Fleet deal!!

    Post  Russian Patriot on Sat Oct 24, 2009 6:46 pm

    Russia, Ukraine not seeking changes to Black Sea Fleet deal
    RIA Novosti

    14:21 23/10/2009 MOSCOW, October 23 (RIA Novosti) - Neither Russia nor Ukraine are seeking to revise the terms of an agreement on the presence of Russia's Black Sea Fleet in the Crimea, the countries' foreign ministers said on Friday.

    Russia's Black Sea Fleet uses a range of naval facilities in Ukraine's Crimea, including the base in Sevastopol, as part of a 1997 lease agreement valid until 2017.

    "Moscow is not proposing to revise the basic agreements on the Black Sea Fleet. We did not hear today suggestions from the Ukrainian side in this respect, either," Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said during a meeting in Moscow with his Ukrainian counterpart, Petro Poroshenko.

    "I would like assure you with all responsibility that Kiev as much as Moscow does not want a revision of fundamental agreements on the Black Sea Fleet," Petro Poroshenko said.

    Ukrainian President Viktor Yushchenko has led calls for Russia to prepare to withdraw its fleet from Ukraine's territory when the agreement expires in 2017, although Russia hopes to extend the lease.

    A Russian-Ukrainian subcommittee on the Black Sea Fleet at the level of deputy foreign ministers holds regular meetings to discuss the implementation of 1997 agreement.

    http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/news/2009/10/mil-091023-rianovosti02.htm

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    Re: Ukraine-Russia Relations and Future developments

    Post  Vladimir79 on Sun Oct 25, 2009 8:30 am

    Considering Yushchenko only has 3% approval rating going into next years elections... I dare say he won't be around to have an opinion about it. lol1

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    Russian Black Sea Fleet destabilizing relations -Yushchenko!

    Post  Russian Patriot on Fri Nov 13, 2009 12:34 am

    Russian Black Sea Fleet destabilizing relations -Yushchenko
    RIA Novosti

    11/11/200917:23

    KIEV, November 11 (RIA Novosti) - Ukrainian President Viktor Yushchenko believes Russia's Black Sea Fleet stationed on the Crimean Peninsula is leading to instability between the two countries' relations.

    Russia's Black Sea Fleet uses a range of naval facilities in Ukraine's Crimea, including the base in Sevastopol, as part of a 1997 lease agreement valid until 2017. However, Yushchenko believes the Russian fleet should leave Ukraine before May 28, 2017.

    "The existence of Russia's Black Sea Fleet [in Crimea] has seriously destabilized Ukrainian-Russian relations," Yushchenko was quoted by the UNIAN news agency as saying during a question and answer session on Wednesday.

    Yushchenko said the country's Constitution forbids the deployment of military bases in Ukraine.

    Yushchenko has led calls for Russia to prepare to withdraw its fleet from Ukraine's territory when the agreement expires in 2017, although Russia hopes to extend the lease.

    A Russian-Ukrainian subcommittee on the Black Sea Fleet at the level of deputy foreign ministers holds regular meetings to discuss the implementation of the 1997 agreement.

    http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/ukraine/2009/ukraine-091111-rianovosti02.htm

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    Russia will build ships in Ukraine

    Post  Vladimir79 on Tue Apr 27, 2010 4:23 am

    New agreement to BSF will organize the production of ships for the Fleet at the shipyards in Ukraine

    Moscow. April 23. Interfax-AVN - A new agreement on the Black Sea Fleet opens the possibility of construction of the Russian ships at Ukrainian shipyards, said a member of the Duma Defense Committee Mikhail Nenashev.

    Terms of Ukrainian shipyards allow the Russian side to raise the issue that we can build a major ship it to them, and we would like and want to do it, and the agreement on the Black Sea Fleet this opens the way "- he said in Moscow on Friday during the TV Moscow-Kiev.

    M. Nenashev said that cooperation between Russia and Ukraine through the shipbuilding and ship repair includes co-production of ships, rather than spraying and painting.

    He said that during the presidency of Viktor Yushchenko, Russia and Ukraine for many years led the failed negotiations on the completion in Nikolaev new missile cruiser.

    "At the Mykolayiv shipyard stands missile cruiser" Ukraine "- the same class as the" Moscow "and" Ustinov "in readiness 70%, we need this ship, and it can be adopted in the Russian Navy", - said M. Nenashev . He noted that until this new agreement on the Black Sea Fleet talks on completion of the ship have failed. "This agreement opens the way for a specific agreement on the completion of this ship and transfer to Russia", - he added


    Last edited by Vladimir79 on Tue Apr 27, 2010 4:39 am; edited 1 time in total

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    Re: Ukraine-Russia Relations and Future developments

    Post  Vladimir79 on Tue Apr 27, 2010 4:39 am

    "At the Mykolayiv shipyard stands missile cruiser" Ukraine "- the same class as the" Moscow "and" Ustinov "in readiness 70%, we need this ship, and it can be adopted in the Russian Navy", - said M. Nenashev . He noted that until a new agreement on the Black Sea Fleet talks on completion of the ship have failed. "This agreement opens the way for a specific agreement on the completion of this ship and transfer to Russia", - he added

    Please God, say it ain't so.

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    Re: Ukraine-Russia Relations and Future developments

    Post  GarryB on Tue Apr 27, 2010 7:11 am

    You need large ships to support your carriers, the Slava was believed to be the fall back ship class in case the more ambitious Kirovs proved to be too expensive to support new carrier battlegroups... at 70 percent complete it wont have weapons or sensors fitted so all new stuff can be used.

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    Russia’s, Ukraine’s biggest shipbuilders sign cooperation agreement

    Post  sepheronx on Wed Apr 28, 2010 9:44 pm

    Russia’s, Ukraine’s biggest shipbuilders sign cooperation agreement

    ARKHANGELSK, April 28 (Itar-Tass) -- Russia’s and Ukraine’s biggest shipbuilders, Severodvinsk-based Sevmash and Nikolayev-based Black Sea Shipbuilding Works, have signed a cooperation agreement, a spokeswoman for the Sevmash plant told Itar-Tass on Wednesday.

    According to Yekaterina Pilikina, heads of the two enterprises, Nikolai Kalistratov of Sevmash and Dmitry Mordovenko of the Black Sea Shipbuilding Works, who signed the agreement, said it was time to restore bilateral cooperation in the shipbuilding sector. “Our plants have many points of contact, the basic one being overhaul and re-equipment of the Vikramaditya aircraft carrier for the Indian Navy in Severodvinsk,” the spokeswoman said.

    The ship was built at the Black Sea Shipbuilding Works in 1982 as the Baku aircraft carrying cruiser, and later was renamed Admiral Gorshkov. Now it is being re-equipped as an aircraft carrier by Sevmash.

    Alexei Petrin, the head of Ukraine’s shipbuilding holding, of which the Black Sea Shipbuilding Works is a part, said Ukrainian shipbuilders welcomed mutually beneficial cooperation with their Russian partners in the areas of surface shipbuilding, oil and gas projects, etc.

    ITAR-TASS

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    Re: Ukraine-Russia Relations and Future developments

    Post  Russian Patriot on Tue May 18, 2010 7:46 pm

    Russia to help Ukraine finish construction of missile cruiser

    RIA Novosti

    20:2017/05/2010 KIEV, May 17 (RIA Novosti) - Russia has agreed to help Ukraine finish construction on a missile cruiser, which has been stalled for almost 15 years, the Ukrainian president said on Monday.

    Construction of the Slava class Admiral Lobov cruiser was launched in 1984 at the Nikolayev shipyard in Ukraine but stalled during its final stage in the late 1980s due to a sharp reduction in military expenditure. The cruiser was renamed the Ukraina in 1992.

    "We have agreed that Russia will complete construction of the Ukraina cruiser," Viktor Yanukovych said at a joint news conference after talks with Russian President Dmitry Medvedev in Kiev.

    Yanukovych said the cruiser was 95% complete but could not be finished without Russia's help.

    According to the latest data, around $30 million is needed to complete the cruiser's construction.

    Slava class cruisers were designed as surface strike ships with some anti-aircraft and ASW capability. They carry 16 SS-N-12 Sandbox nuclear-capable supersonic anti-ship missiles, with launchers mounted in four pairs on either side of the superstructure.

    Russia has three Slava class cruisers in service with its Navy.

    http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/news/2010/05/mil-100517-rianovosti10.htm

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    Re: Ukraine-Russia Relations and Future developments

    Post  GarryB on Sun May 23, 2010 4:20 am

    These reports are not totally clear, they talk about Russia helping the Ukraine finish building the ship, but they don't mention who will own the final ship.
    I rather doubt that spending 30 mil on finishing a ship means it becomes a Russian ship, so either Russia will have to actually buy it from them or it enters the Ukrainian fleet.
    Russia could certainly use another large ship. Its design was supposed to be a cheaper back up in case the more expensive Kirovs failed, but that sort of creates a problem. The Slava class were cheaper and use conventional propulsion, which will be a problem if the new carriers the Russians make are nuclear powered... which they almost certainly will be. The onboard storage space for a carrier is limited and you have to carry fuel and munitions for your air component so no having to take on fuel to run the ship is a huge advantage and greatly reduces the logistic burden of the tail of the battle group. The Kirovs are supposed to be upgraded as is the Kuznetsov and I think both will include perhaps a change in propulsion to a single powerful nuclear reactor. The Kirovs currently have a combined propulsion with both nuclear and conventional propulsion. If it happens and it is successful perhaps the Slava class vessels might go though the same mid life propulsion change too.

    With three in service what they probably could do is give them overhauls as the future carriers are built with a Slava for each carrier and a Kirov for each carrier for the first two carriers and two Slavas for the Kuznetsov if she is still around.

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    Re: Ukraine-Russia Relations and Future developments

    Post  Vladimir79 on Sun May 23, 2010 7:16 am

    There isn't any destination for it other than RusNav. It can't be sold abroad due to MTCR. If we are talking about finishing it, that means we intend to commission it. It will cost far more than $30 million to finish, it requires a $300 million overhaul and $700 million in weapons. It has been rusting for the last 20+ years. It is a complete waste of money but the government has failed to design an air defence escort.

    Our only carrier is going to be decommissioned in 2012 and laid up for 5 years until its relaunch in 2017 so what do we need to protect? There is 1 Kirov in refit and talk of spending $1b+ to refit the third. Spend another billion on Ukrayna and that is $3-4 billion spent refitting a bunch of rusted junk that won't last another 15 years. First carrier isn't likely until 2025 when these relics will be decommissioned. Left with no escorts and no funding for an air defence destroyer project. It is going to be a fine day when we launch our first carrier with nothing to protect it but frigates.

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    Re: Ukraine-Russia Relations and Future developments

    Post  GarryB on Mon May 24, 2010 5:49 am

    If you are serious about having a blue water navy then you need aircraft that can move with your fleet. I really don't think 100,000 ton carriers like the Nimitz are the solution for Russia, I think smaller, lighter, cheaper but smarter carriers make more sense, with a range of sophisticated ships to support them.
    Now despite your concerns about what you call rust buckets, I think the Russian navy needs experience with large ships, though the ships of the future will no doubt be more automated and require smaller crews to offer the range and persistence to travel with carriers, and of course the significant amount of weapons and ammo in volume and range of types you will need larger vessels.
    Navies are not cheap but having a powerful navy makes you a real global power.
    A good way to promote free trade with the entire world is to be able to send ships to most countries in the world quickly... not necessarily to use force, sometimes to reassure an ally.
    A Russian carrier battle group sitting in the Adriatic sea amongst all those NATO ships would have sent a clear message to NATO, and with likely overflight permission from pro Serb Montenegro Russia could have supported Serbia directly instead of the fiasco of having to get overflight permission from former Eastern European countries who would jump at the chance to stick it to Russia.

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    Ukraine-Russia Relations and Future developments:

    Post  TheRealist on Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:39 am

    http://www.day.kiev.ua/236430

    Medvedev dreams of buying Ukraine with his funny money. There are some willing to sell

    By Oleksandr PALII

    Russia’s Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev urged his Ukrainian counterpart Mykola Azarov to include Russia’s ruble in the first group of currencies (according to the Ukrainian National Bank’s classification). As a reminder: according to the ruling of the National Bank of Ukraine, the first group includes freely convertible currencies, extensively employed as a means of payment in international transactions, traded in major global currency markets, and allowed for investment in Ukraine. Here belong Australian dollars, British pounds sterling, Danish kroner, US dollars, Icelandic kronur, Canadian dollars, Norwegian kroner, Swedish kronor, Swiss francs, Japanese yen, and euros.

    Thus, the top ten includes the currencies of highly diversified economies with the highest standards for competitiveness.

    Conversely, Russian currency is now extremely vulnerable to the fluctuations of global conjuncture. Moreover, Russia is virtually unable to control these fluctuations, pegged to oil prices. Little wonder, for 70 percent of Russia’s export worth is made up by energy carriers. This is in fact an economy of a banana republic, despite all the attempts to disguise it under the bombastic term “the resource superpower.” This is why the ruble is not widely employed as a means of payment in international transactions, nor is it a major commodity currency in the world’s chief currency markets. So it would be strange indeed, should it be mentioned in the NBU’s first currency group.

    Russian politicians love telling tales of “funny American money,” which allegedly has no real value to it. Such talk is the result of envy, since the US can solve its economic problems through increasing its debt, and rely not only on the competitiveness of its economy, but also on its solid position in the international arena. Today there is an ongoing debate in Russia as to whether a ban should be imposed on Russian officials having banking accounts abroad. The opponents argue that such a ban could result in the deterioration of the civil service’s expert qualities. If top civil servants (and top experts at that) prefer to have their deposits in foreign currencies, they must know something about it.

    Of course, many in Moscow dream of buying Ukraine’s transit services and enterprises with Russian rubles, the product of Russia’s printing industry. But what should Ukraine do with those bills? Exchange them at a loss, or purchase Russian uncompetitive goods?

    Azarov responded to his Russian counterpart’s offer with an elusive promise of a decision, which would be made later. He said something along the lines that one year ago no one even imagined that Ukraine would pay for Russian gas with rubles, while today 40 percent of accounts in bilateral trade are settled in nothing else but the Russian currency. However, regardless of political orientation, no Ukrainian government should be delighted at such prospects.

    There is something even worse than that. Valerii Muntiian, the Cabinet spokesman for cooperation with Russia and CIS, said recently that now Ukraine must “accelerate the creation of the Eurasian Union, implement the project of a new monetary tool, and ensure the adoption of the Russian ruble as regional currency. Then the Russian Federation will be able to declare itself a core power on the Eurasian continent, and consolidate around itself other states, first of all the CIS members.”

    As matters stand now, there is no love lost between the incumbent Ukrainian government and the rest of the world, including the Ukrainian people. The regime allowed the use of Russian as a regional language, and is now standing at attention, while Russia keeps barraging it with new ultimatums, from cheese to gas to the Customs Union. Meanwhile, joining the Customs Union with Russia means nothing other than depriving Ukraine of its place in the world community and in the global division of labor, and pushing it at the back of behind – somewhere in Chukotka. It is the equivalent of depriving it of its convenient place at the crossroads between Asia, Europe, and the Middle East – a spot for which our ancestors spilled rivers of blood. It would also mean perpetuating our economic backwardness. For example, today Russia owns over 35 percent of the world’s mineral resources. However, Russian population, which comprises 2 percent of the world population, produces 2 percent of the global GDP. Resources or no resources, an average Russian citizen cannot benefit from them. This is the price of backwardness. True enough, without resources it would be even worth, due to the cold, severe climate in which no bananas will grow.

    Meanwhile, the Ukrainian public officer Muntiian declares that Ukraine must see itself as part of the Eurasian Union “in a symbiosis of anthropogenic and non-systemic factors: ethnonational, cultural, moral, and ethic.” Thus, the post-Soviet standard of economic and moral degradation is presented as a benchmark. Sadly, a foreign prime minister’s call has found support among the Ukrainian decision-makers. Technically, Muntiian’s statement is nothing else but a call for the liquidation of Ukraine’s independence.

    Oleksandr Palii holds a Ph.D. in political science

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    Re: Ukraine-Russia Relations and Future developments

    Post  TR1 on Wed Oct 10, 2012 2:32 am

    Ukrainians just show their inferiority complex when calling Russia a banana republic.

    The country is a wreck.

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    Re: Ukraine-Russia Relations and Future developments

    Post  flamming_python on Wed Oct 10, 2012 2:13 pm

    What is this preposterous propaganda?
    Ridiculous.

    As an aside - I heard China overtook the Ukraine in GDP per capita this year (or was it last year).

    China.

    25 years ago, China was a poor backwards nation with a billion rural peasants and little modern infrastructure. 2 of its most prosperous cities - Hong Kong & Macau, were still under the sovereignty and management of Britain and Portugal. China was the largest and most populous 3rd world country in the world; albeit a powerful, industrial one even at that time.

    The Ukraine meanwhile, was an agricultural and industrial powerhouse of the USSR; one of the top 3 largest economies in the world at that time. Everything from space rockets & aircraft carriers to main battle tanks and helicopter engines were produced there; all of them amongst the world's most advanced. It had (and still has), the most fertile land in the whole of Europe.

    25 years later, the average Chinaman is richer than the average Ukrainian. Go figure.


    Last edited by flamming_python on Wed Oct 10, 2012 2:23 pm; edited 3 times in total

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    Re: Ukraine-Russia Relations and Future developments

    Post  TheRealist on Wed Oct 10, 2012 2:19 pm

    Given the economic situation in Europe and in the US I find the Russian economy very resilient and capable of any economic assault to its foundation. This article in my view was made to diminish Russia's image.

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    Re: Ukraine-Russia Relations and Future developments

    Post  flamming_python on Wed Oct 10, 2012 2:21 pm

    TheRealist wrote:Given the economic situation in Europe and in the US I find the Russian economy very resilient and capable of any economic assault to its foundation. This article in my view was made to diminish Russia's image.

    Just some propaganda by a Ukrainian nationalist who wants to blind his people to the facts due to his bigotry and irrational russophobia. There is no shortage of such clowns.

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    Re: Ukraine-Russia Relations and Future developments

    Post  TheRealist on Wed Oct 10, 2012 2:26 pm

    You would be surprise at the amount of Anti-Russian articles that I have come across, my friend but in my view they are wrong.

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    Re: Ukraine-Russia Relations and Future developments

    Post  TR1 on Wed Oct 10, 2012 10:37 pm

    This is why in recent years I have been against any cooperation on critical security components with Ukraine - my view used to be opposite half a decade ago.

    There is a legitimate huge portion of the Ukrainian populace and the reflective politicians who base their identity on opposing Russia and supposedly "bettering" it. It is pathetic and mind boggling.

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    Re: Ukraine-Russia Relations and Future developments

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Wed Oct 10, 2012 11:00 pm

    Looks like someone from Lvov wrote this.

    Unfortunately it seems like Ukraine will only continue to be more antirussian and view joining the EU "a step away from kremlin dictatorship" and having "freedom". However maybe the large russian population "occupying" eastern Ukraine will resist but I dont think it will stop Ukraine in the future becoming like the baltic states.

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    Ukraine paid internet warriors/trolls

    Post  Viktor on Fri Apr 19, 2013 2:13 am

    Another interesting post from Gur Khan attacks!

    About how Ukrainian MOD pays this internet trolls to lie and distort the truth on any way possible in order to gain upper hand on God

    knows what? Increase Ukrainian export chances on the markets held by Russia, or even more.

    Anyway a mail translated by google from Ukrainian (mail and other stuff on the link at the bottom)

    Good day!
    If you are reading this letter - then you come to the Task Force on commenting on the Internet. I congratulate you with this.) And beg only do 2 things:
    1) Read the attached documents carefully - there is very little information, but it is important.
    2) Confirm receipt of this letter - 10.00am Tuesday (April 2), so that I could report to management (OBOVYAZKOVO!).

    I would like to say a big thank you to those who responded during our baptism of fire this Saturday. Among these activists and enthusiasts - Vladimir Skorostetskyy, Nazar Voloshin, Vladislav Seleznev, Victor horseflies, Margaret Nariyauskayte, Oleg Procenko, Arkady Radkivskyy. Maybe I'm not someone has written - just do not know your aliases - do not be offended, but simply "throw" me your username / nickname. Guide highly appreciated your performance, efficiency and knowledge in the subject)! Thank you to everyone who vvidhuknuvsya the weekend. Waiting for your letters!
    Good day to all.

    Instruction and our common mechanism of action as appropriate comment (read carefully!)
    Coordinator (Chiharyeviy) comes a link to material or article from the leadership that is necessary to uncomment (negative, critical, false, etc.).
    The coordinator sends each group sms from the article's title (a reference to it, the name of the Internet media) and a list of messages that need to convey to the reader in the comments. If this information is quite bulky - Coordinator sms just said that we should actively check your email, listed in the table "List": there is more information, links and abstracts.
    Coordinator manages and monitors of comments, noting the most active (which, consequently, will affect your cash bonuses at the end of the month).
    Each of the team members should have multiple e-mail to login if necessary, and go under different aliases and nicknames, commenting on several positions on behalf of various parties.
    Each participant must have addition to your personal account in Facebook, several "false" (on some sites to register with social networks) to not shine very often own name (journalists may notice that this is not normal users, and representatives of the press Service and VZMI).
    Already required to register under different nicknames (minium - 2) sites: http://sevastopol.su, http://korrespondent.net/, http://lb.ua/, http://zn.ua/ etc. and send coordinator for nicknames.
    Please note that comments should naturally so that other readers did not have the impression of "conditionality" of these comments. If you register under an assumed alias (preferably make it so), mistake (stylistic, grammatical), keep your journalistic talents. You may begin to discuss with other group members, but within these theses. Do not "sing" praises, maskuytes during normal average (or disjoint) user.
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    If you want to add information that I sent to you or correct your contact information - wait, write.
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    TR1
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    Re: Ukraine-Russia Relations and Future developments

    Post  TR1 on Fri Apr 19, 2013 2:23 am

    It's mostly just butthurt internet trolls.
    The most notable are Tarsenko (Baron Harkonnen) who is the Kharokov troll. He always argued against Western anything in ridiculous ways (pro Russian and Ukranian ) but in recent years became a hardcore Ukrainian tank nationalist Smile

    Then there are truly hilarious retards like Kotobod, whos blog I recommend visiting if you want to laugh your ass off.
    The guy truly believes the Ukrainian defense industry is the source of great jealousy from Russia.

    Looks like Ukranian internet warriors have reached Chin-bot levels.

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    Re: Ukraine-Russia Relations and Future developments

    Post  Viktor on Fri Apr 19, 2013 2:52 am

    TR1 wrote:The most notable are Tarsenko (Baron Harkonnen) who is the Kharokov troll. He always argued against Western anything in ridiculous ways (pro Russian and Ukranian ) but in recent years became a hardcore Ukrainian tank nationalist Smile

    I remember, he made quite a name for himself. I guess that now when the word is out in the open he will need another e-mail and nick to

    start all over again Very Happy.

    I guess his masters will not be pleased to hear that his cover has been blown away Laughing


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    Re: Ukraine-Russia Relations and Future developments

    Post  Firebird on Fri Apr 19, 2013 4:12 pm

    I rememeber a West Ukrainian on an internet forum. I told him about my family from Kiev etc. Next thing is, he's tries to start lecturing me about "its not THE Ukraine" and how to spell Kiev. Anyway, ofcourse it basically turned out he was an extreme "Ukrainian nationalist"... the sort who was born in canada, along with his grandparents and now has some daft job stirring up shit from his office in Washington DC, USA.

    I told him, " what do u mean with this I'm not Russian, I'm Ukrainian". I continued, " thats like someone saying "Im not Russian, I'm from Muscovy.." "

    Ofcourse he had a big tantrum again. Probably the most bizarre part was when I mentioned the Kievan Rus, and the Ukrainian parts of Imperial Russia. He said "These people from Moscow stole the name Russia from us..."

    I thought "wow... what a fuckwit..."

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    Join date : 2009-07-10

    Re: Ukraine-Russia Relations and Future developments

    Post  Vladimir79 on Fri Apr 19, 2013 6:45 pm

    Ukraine has their own 50 cent Army like China? lol1


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    Re: Ukraine-Russia Relations and Future developments

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