Russia and other developments in Hypersonic Research

This thing is propably one ot those targets the muricans developed for their missile defence systems now hasty rebranded (for a few billion).

miketheterrible wrote:

magnumcromagnon wrote:

miketheterrible wrote:

ATLASCUB wrote:To be fair.... god I hate that phrase...we have yet to see jack shit of Zircon.

That american missile has probably been flown in some form to be at the stage that it's. Numbers however.... we know advertisement for U.S weapons can be very wild, even by normal standards. Kinda the norm for states to prop up their weaponry like corps do to their products but the U.S does take the cake.

The secrecy surrounding Zircon is interesting. I am assuming Kinzhal got publicity cause it's an existing missile modified a bit and fitted on an aircraft. Zircon is something new entirely. All we got was Intel on both sides it flew, but that's it.

I hate how Russia hides development. I know we aren't the customers and secrecy is important but it would be nice to see.

Don't be irrational.

You have no idea what irrational is if you think that is.  Take a look at this forums as a whole.

But they have no problem showing most systems.  Zircon on the other hand they have been very hush hush.  They even showed Poseidon after all.

You are being irrational, because you think appeasing fanboi masturbation is more important than national security. They'll reveal it when they are ready.

If Peresvet can deliver the power density to stop hypersonic missiles, then it is an earth-shaking technological advance. It is
certain that it has an advanced compact nuclear power source, which is a dramatic advance by itself, but the laser physics must
be something new. It may not be a monochrome laser but a multi-wavelength composite beam that primes the air in a way to
increase the transmission of photonic energy. I am having a hard time grasping what they did.

1) Aerosol particles and water vapour are the enemy of lasers. I suppose one could "cook" them in some way to disperse
them. So both water vapour particles and various black carbon and organic carbon particles can be vapourized. Making
particles smaller pushes their EM scattering properties into the "gas" regime. Even if you increase the number, you still
increase transmission.

2) Ionizing the air is not a good idea since plasma is a good absorber (thanks to free charges that can accelerate). It is
best to keep the air neutral.

Anyway, since these systems are being deployed, they must be functional. This should be resulting in staining of yanqui
underpants.

US hypersonic missile to enter preliminary trials no sooner than late 2020, says source

LE BOURGET, June 20. /TASS/. The US most advanced hypersonic missile, which leading American defense contractor Raytheon is developing, will enter preliminary trials no sooner than the end of 2020, a source in Raytheon told TASS at the 53rd Paris Air Show on Thursday.

"The development work has entered the active phase. By now, the missile’s concept has been created, its mockup is being assembled and its flight characteristics are being determined. At the same time, problems related to the engine’s development exist. Their solution is delaying the commencement of the missile’s trials at least until the end of next year," the source said, adding that the developers had been assigned the task of achieving the missile’s speed of no less than Mach 5.

"At this moment, it is difficult to speak about any application of this missile as its development is at the initial stage while the Pentagon is just formulating its requirements for hypersonic weapons. However, we consider the new missile primarily as an air-launched weapon to strike ground and naval targets. Raytheon will also study the expediency of its integration into land-based tactical missile systems and combat ships," the developer’s representative said.

The concept of a hypersonic missile being developed by Raytheon was unveiled at the Le Bourget air show. The advanced missile is being developed under the HAWC (Hypersonic Air-breathing Weapon Concept) program initiated by the Pentagon’s Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA).

The US Northrop Grumman is also involved in the missile’s development.

https://tass.com/defense/1064742

Mach 5 is not hypersonic.

New data on the promising US Army LRHW hypersonic missile system

At a symposium of representatives of the US defense industry on space and missile defense (Space and Missile Defense Symposium) on August 7, 2019 in Huntsville (Alabama), representatives of the US Department of Defense released new data on a ground-based hypersonic missile weapon system created in the interests of the American army LRHW (Long Range Hypersonic Weapon). Recall that for the first time some details about this system were disclosed in May 2019 at a conference of the US Army Association (AUSA) in Honolulu.


Shot from the presentation of the promising ground-based system of hypersonic missile weapons of the ground-based US Army LRHW (Long Range Hypersonic Weapon) (c) US Army


In fact, this LRHW system is a universal solid-propellant medium-range ground-based ballistic missile AUR (All-Up-Round), equipped with a universal, maneuverable planning hypersonic warhead of the Common Hypersonic Glide Body (C-HGB) performed by Block 1. Both of these system components created by the Sandia National Laboratory of the United States Department of Energy with the participation of the United States Missile Defense Agency. The C-HGB hypersonic warhead is being developed as a whole to equip weapons systems of three types of the US armed forces (army, air force and navy). The AUR missile will also be used by the US Navy.

The AUR missile has a case diameter of 34.5 inches (887 mm). The missile will be launched from a transport and launch container with a length of about 10 m from a ground-based towed towed two-container mobile launcher with an Oshkosh M983A4 tractor unit (8x8). The launcher semi-trailer is a modified M870 semi-trailer of the Patriot SAM launcher launcher. The missile system will use the standard American fire control system for missile forces and artillery AFATDS in version 7.0 for fire control. The battery of the LRHW system will include four dual-container launchers and one fire control vehicle.

Presumably, the C-HGB hypersonic warhead is based on the Advanced Hypersonic Weapon (AHW) experimental hypersonic warhead developed by Sandy National Laboratories for the US Army, flight tests of which were conducted in 2011 and 2012 and reached a speed of 8M. An AUR rocket is also possible, based on an accelerator rocket used to launch AHW.

The US Army plans to start the LRHW tests in 2021 with test launches about once every six months. Already in the fiscal year 2023, the deployment of LRHW missile systems batteries as part of the Strategic Fires Battalion divisions and their deployment to “pilot combat duty” is expected to begin.

The LRHW range was not officially disclosed, but the AHW range was claimed at 3,700 nautical miles (6,800 km), and a number of unofficial estimates give an effective LRHW range of about 5,000-6,000 km.

https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3733106.html

So it is an SLBM in a truck with a junior copy of Avangard that is probably not as good...

GarryB wrote:So it is an SLBM in a truck with a junior copy of Avangard that is probably not as good...

...and something that Russia could easily replicate if they choose.

The mobility of the russian equivalent would be better.

Part of hypersonic development of USSR and Russia

I believe that the latest assertions of our dear, old John Bolton on the development of the most cutting edge hypersonic technologies in the Federation are a very good clue of the, sincerely childish, exceptionalism-generated madness that lie on the basis of the decisions and the same thought of American elite :


"Despite the fact that Russia’s economy is comparable to the Netherlands, she spends enough money on defense to not only modernize theirs nuclear weapons but to buil new kinds of delivery vehicles, [b hypersonic gliding vehicles, hypersonic cruise missiles, largely stolen from American technology[/b],”  


Video included.........

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2019/08/15/russia-stole-us-hypersonic-missile-tech-to-make-nuclear-advances-bolton-a66880


Obviously the funny response to this awkward idiocy do not need any wait.


Франц Клинцевич leading member of the Federation Council’s Defense and Security Committee commented (traduction)

"In terms of the technologies that Bolton speaks of, the United States is about 15-20 years behind Russia, and it’s unlikely that it will ever be possible to catch up. Russia has these developments, but the USA does not. And to say that Russia has stolen from the USA what the Americans do not possess is at least ridiculous.”

“A year and a half ago, the Americans said that Russia was bluffing, that it does not have the technologies in question, that these are all cartoons and divorce. Mr. Bolton himself spoke of this, among other things. And today he already says that we are stealing from them. But in fact, it’s the Americans who are trying to steal technology from us, doing tremendous work in this direction”

"Therefore, Bolton’s rhetoric is understandable, we take it calmly. As they say in Russia, this is an attempt to shift from a sick head to a healthy one. But it will not work. Theft is their specialty. And we are developing our independent Russian science, and it gives results every year. Then, in a year or two, the Americans will generally be in a panic over what developments Russia will begin to operate on. Including in the military sphere."


https://vz.ru/news/2019/8/15/992500.html

It is extremely important that Russia does not conform to the nonsense that is western science. In particular in branches of new physics.
Western science is a cult-like scam based on entrenched personalities and their BS "authority". If you don't believe me, crack open any
current General Relativity textbook and go to the part where they call the event horizon a coordinate singularity. Not only do they
redefine without justification or discussion the established mathematical concept known as "coordinate singularity", but they are
manifestly wrong since the event horizon can be demonstrated to be a coordinate invariant. These clowns think that information
non-conserving singular transformations are legitimate coordinate transformations when they are nothing of the sort. By definition,
coordinate transformations have to be information conserving (for example the idiotic application of singular transforms just moves the
singularity you want to eliminate to a different part of the domain: there is no free lunch in mathematics and rigorous science).

There was interesting research by a Russian researcher in Finland on anti-gravity effects. He was hounded for being a crank and a phony
when it is his accusers who are the groupthink monkeys without any authority to judge and criticize. I also suspect that western
governments know full well that their science community (in the relevant and important fields) is a diversion and that they fund the
real deal in secret. It is just too important for military technology to rely on "consensus" BS driven by personal popularity and
mafia article review control. Russia needs to follow the right science path and not the western BS "consensus" path.

GarryB wrote:So it is an SLBM in a truck with a junior copy of Avangard that is probably not as good...

It's the US equivalent of the Rubezh system

flamming_python wrote:

GarryB wrote:So it is an SLBM in a truck with a junior copy of Avangard that is probably not as good...

It's the US equivalent of the Rubezh system

It can't be an equivalent, because looking at the TEL it lack cross-country strategic mobility. The wide space between the front set of wheels and the ones on the back of the trailer is a dead give-away that it lacks the necessary mobility:




The US TEL would have the mobility of a commercial semi-truck, but x100 times as expensive. When Rubezh is put in to service (likely on the Kamaz BMO TEL) it will have the strategic mobility the US TEL lacks.

I think he means theoretical equivalent, like the Buran to the Space Shuttle.

Russia has rather extensive experience with very large truck mounted missiles from short range to ICBMs, so this could be considered an area that the US is well behind in.

As Hole mentions at the top of this page, any new US missile they put forward is going to be like Kinzhal in the sense that it is going to be existing technology that is adapted to a new role... except of course the Iskander the Kinzhal was based on was perfectly legal under existing treaties like the INF treaty, as was the Kinzhal missile being air launched and not bound by the INF treaty either.

The US missile will likely be based on Illegal US target missiles... I remember a short while back Arrow accusing Russia because they must use medium range missile targets for their tests, so those missile targets must violate the INF treaty... of course that is not necessarily true... air launched systems or sea or river launched systems could easily do the job without violating the INF treaty...

And of course much longer ranged missiles with warheads fitted with airbrakes could simulate the trajectory of shorter ranged slower missiles too when needed.

Now of course scramjet powered missiles would be the best way to simulate all sorts of different ranged missiles... with range not an issue you could redesign them for extreme speed over a fairly short distance so air defence systems can practise intercepting them...

GarryB wrote:Of course during the Soviet period it was quite normal for a design bureau to suddenly move to a different field, just to inject new ideas into different fields.

Several Jewish Russians working in these design bureaus shifted to Israel and joined Israeli defence & aerospace companies. So Israel (and possible the US) benefited immensely from that transfer of knowledge.

Mindstorm wrote:https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2019/08/15/russia-stole-us-hypersonic-missile-tech-to-make-nuclear-advances-bolton-a66880[/url]

The opposite is true. Several Jewish Russians who were working in various defence primes, design bureau across Russia moved to Israel and joined the various Israeli defence companies. The Israeli military industry benefited immensely from the knowledge of these Jewish Russians.

GarryB wrote:So it is an SLBM in a truck with a junior copy of Avangard that is probably not as good...

And how would you know it's not as good? Had a chance to use it?

flamming_python wrote:It's the US equivalent of the Rubezh system

Rubezh was standard ICBM, this would be closer to SS-20 with Zircon as payload

The US will soon also carry hypersonic weapons.Russia's advantage will not last long.

Arrow wrote:The US will soon also carry hypersonic weapons.Russia's advantage will not last long.

The question you have to ask yourself, is why you self-anointed ubermenschen still don't have them and are playing catch-up.
With lots of dick stroking assertions such as yours about how much of a cakewalk it will be for you. Even Bolty the blowhard
is already accusing Russia of stealing what you clowns don't even have and Russia does.

LOL.

And how would you know it's not as good? Had a chance to use it?

Because ICBMs fly further and faster which would mean any Avangard type vehicle mounted on an SLBM even if it had equal performance would be seriously inferior from a smaller lighter launch platform like an SLBM.

You would think, based on need the US would be a leader in defeating ABM systems... like the Soviets were very good with SAMs and anti ship missiles because of western air power and US Navy AEGIS integrated air defence systems with fighter and AWACS support from their carriers...

Well the Soviets have had an active ABM system around Moscow for over half a century now, yet the standard plan so far seems to have been overwhelm it with numbers rather than developing anything specifically to defeat it.

The Russians have done a better job.

The US will soon also carry hypersonic weapons.Russia's advantage will not last long.

Hahahahahaha... you just don't get it... it doesn't matter if the US gets hypersonic weapons, or when... the point is that now they have little to no defence from a Russian attack... and if the US gets hypersonic weapons that doesn't change.

SLBM = Sea launched ballistic missile
SRBM = Short range ballistic missile
MRBM = Medium range ballistic missile

SLBM = Sea launched ballistic missile
SRBM = Short range ballistic missile
MRBM = Medium range ballistic missile

yes, I know, but in the case of Russia and the US with land based missiles banned by the INF treaty one of the quickest ways of getting something useful in service is to use a SLBM... or ICBM with one stage removed to make them two stage missiles.

GarryB wrote: Hahahahahaha... you just don't get it... it doesn't matter if the US gets hypersonic weapons, or when... the point is that now they have little to no defence from a Russian attack... and if the US gets hypersonic weapons that doesn't change.

Yakhont (especially Brahmos) had some issues related to aluminium cloud weakness. Did they fix that issue ?