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    Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

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    George1

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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  George1 on Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:23 am

    US starts development of advanced prompt global strike systems - Russian Defense Ministry

    "When not equipped with nuclear weapons, these systems are meant to carry out the same tasks as the strategic nuclear forces," a spokesman said

    UNITED NATIONS, October 13. /TASS/. The Pentagon has started to develop advanced prompt global strike systems capable of carrying out the same tasks as the nuclear forces, Russian Defense Ministry Spokesman Alexander Yemelyanov said at a Russian-Chinese briefing on missile defense, held on the sidelines of the UN General Assembly First Committee’s meeting on Thursday.

    "While implementing the concept of shared use of offensive and defensive weapons, the Pentagon has started to develop advanced prompt global strike systems," Yemelyanov said. "When not equipped with nuclear weapons, these systems are meant to carry out the same tasks as the strategic nuclear forces," he added.

    He also said that there was a clear link between the US plans to establish its global ABM system and the development of prompt global strike systems. "If a strike is delivered on the Russian and Chinese strategic nuclear forces’ facilities, the efficiency of the US ABM system will improve," the Russian Defense Ministry’s spokesman said.

    "So the development of prompt global strike systems once again proves Washington’s wish to ruin the current balance of power and ensure the US global strategic dominance," Yemelyanov noted.

    He added that the United States had been stepping up its missile defense capabilities to gain a strategic advantage by getting an opportunity to use nuclear weapons "at minimal cost.".


    More:
    http://tass.com/defense/970393


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    kvs

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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  kvs on Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:57 am

    George1 wrote:US starts development of advanced prompt global strike systems - Russian Defense Ministry

    "When not equipped with nuclear weapons, these systems are meant to carry out the same tasks as the strategic nuclear forces," a spokesman said

    UNITED NATIONS, October 13. /TASS/. The Pentagon has started to develop advanced prompt global strike systems capable of carrying out the same tasks as the nuclear forces, Russian Defense Ministry Spokesman Alexander Yemelyanov said at a Russian-Chinese briefing on missile defense, held on the sidelines of the UN General Assembly First Committee’s meeting on Thursday.

    "While implementing the concept of shared use of offensive and defensive weapons, the Pentagon has started to develop advanced prompt global strike systems," Yemelyanov said. "When not equipped with nuclear weapons, these systems are meant to carry out the same tasks as the strategic nuclear forces," he added.

    He also said that there was a clear link between the US plans to establish its global ABM system and the development of prompt global strike systems. "If a strike is delivered on the Russian and Chinese strategic nuclear forces’ facilities, the efficiency of the US ABM system will improve," the Russian Defense Ministry’s spokesman said.

    "So the development of prompt global strike systems once again proves Washington’s wish to ruin the current balance of power and ensure the US global strategic dominance," Yemelyanov noted.

    He added that the United States had been stepping up its missile defense capabilities to gain a strategic advantage by getting an opportunity to use nuclear weapons "at minimal cost.".


    More:
    http://tass.com/defense/970393

    Russia would have to be grossly negligent if it would allow this American BS (yes it is basically a show off process) to gain the US
    any advantage over its nuclear forces. We are dealing with the first strike scenario. Americans think if they shoot first, like some
    wild west gunslinger they "win". If Russia can properly react to a first strike attempt using ICBMs it has no excuse to not be able to
    respond to prompt global strike.
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    Big_Gazza

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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  Big_Gazza on Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:01 pm

    kvs wrote:
    George1 wrote:US starts development of advanced prompt global strike systems - Russian Defense Ministry

    "When not equipped with nuclear weapons, these systems are meant to carry out the same tasks as the strategic nuclear forces," a spokesman said

    UNITED NATIONS, October 13. /TASS/. The Pentagon has started to develop advanced prompt global strike systems capable of carrying out the same tasks as the nuclear forces, Russian Defense Ministry Spokesman Alexander Yemelyanov said at a Russian-Chinese briefing on missile defense, held on the sidelines of the UN General Assembly First Committee’s meeting on Thursday.

    "While implementing the concept of shared use of offensive and defensive weapons, the Pentagon has started to develop advanced prompt global strike systems," Yemelyanov said. "When not equipped with nuclear weapons, these systems are meant to carry out the same tasks as the strategic nuclear forces," he added.

    He also said that there was a clear link between the US plans to establish its global ABM system and the development of prompt global strike systems. "If a strike is delivered on the Russian and Chinese strategic nuclear forces’ facilities, the efficiency of the US ABM system will improve," the Russian Defense Ministry’s spokesman said.

    "So the development of prompt global strike systems once again proves Washington’s wish to ruin the current balance of power and ensure the US global strategic dominance," Yemelyanov noted.

    He added that the United States had been stepping up its missile defense capabilities to gain a strategic advantage by getting an opportunity to use nuclear weapons "at minimal cost.".


    More:
    http://tass.com/defense/970393

    Russia would have to be grossly negligent if it would allow this American BS (yes it is basically a show off process) to gain the US
    any advantage over its nuclear forces.    We are dealing with the first strike scenario.   Americans think if they shoot first, like some
    wild west gunslinger they "win".   If Russia can properly react to a first strike attempt using ICBMs it has no excuse to not be able to
    respond to prompt global strike.

    I like the idea of a handful of Sarmat with precision guided HGVs. Fit them with air brakes so they can drop their terminal attack speed to a sufficiently low value that they can effectively use Glonass to achieve CEP of a few meters. They won't be very cost effective but their main purpose is to show the Russian cock is bigger, longer, thicker, harder, stronger and more energetic than its puny Murican equivalent... russia Twisted Evil russia
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  miketheterrible on Mon Oct 16, 2017 5:40 am

    Cheaper solutions would be more cruise missiles. Long range, supersonic cruise missiles would do the job. Hell, if there is a method of attach cruise missiles to a ballistic bus system (so cruise missiles as warheads), they could have something that would be able to strike from afar, maneuverable and pretty much extremely hard to counter.

    But we have been hearing of project 4202, but this year all is quiet. I imagine that they are going to really push its development along with Zircon in order to get hypersonic missile systems into field in order to deal with ABM systems. As for Prompt Global Strike, well, all Russia can do is create their own which they have through 4202 technically. And for defense against it, well apparently the Voronez radar is able to track them but shooting them down would be real hard. So hypersonic AAM would be the key here, and I believe KBM is working on one for Pantsir.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  GarryB on Tue Oct 17, 2017 2:18 am

    Well quite a few decades ago there was that mach 3 low flying cruise missile design that used nuclear propulsion that could fly around for years.

    Before ballistic missiles had intercontinental range there were very large very long range cruise missiles too...

    Hypersonic motors would make very large very long range missiles rather more interesting.

    I mean when launched they might be 10 tons with most of that weight fuel so for the first portion of the flight they would likely be subsonic.... but during a 10,000km flight it could release external fuel tanks and with the gradual reduction in weight and drag accelerate to hypersonic speed for the last few stages of flight near enemy airspace...


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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  miketheterrible on Tue Oct 17, 2017 4:46 am

    There are plenty of options Russia can take, even using current existing technology from Iskander. Its just are they willing to do it?
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sun Nov 12, 2017 11:49 pm

    Big_Gazza wrote:
    I like the idea of a handful of Sarmat with precision guided HGVs.  Fit them with air brakes so they can drop their terminal attack speed to a sufficiently low value that they can effectively use Glonass to achieve CEP of a few meters.  They won't be very cost effective but their main purpose is to show the Russian cock is bigger, longer, thicker, harder, stronger and more energetic than its puny Murican equivalent...  russia Twisted Evil russia

    Start ICBM regardless of with or without nuke warhead is trigger for war for other party. Besides all ICBMs count to NewSTAR right? Besides somehow i cannot imagine how PGS would be global withput passing over Russia's territory ??

    If PGS and ABM will get into life Russia either stops NewStart with many cheapo ICBMs close to US mainland (vide Kuryer in Arctic check INF thread) or use space for FOBS like weapons IMHO


    Sarmatian ICBM & FOBS Reintroduction

    https://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/russia/ss-30-fobs.htm


    This new Sarmatian heavy missile has been assigned the not just the standard MIRV/ICBM tasks "but also the delivery of warheads and strike a variety of ways, including through the delivery units South Pole" according to Russian Academy of Missile and Artillery Sciences, Former head of the 4th. Central Research Institute of the Defense Ministry, Major General Vladimir Vasilenko on or about February 27, 2014 and again March 17, 2014. To achieve such a southern variant reentry would require a FOBS (fractional orbital bombardment systems operation) operational capability that is much more precise than previous SS-9 based R-36-0 testing demonstrated in the 1960-1970s. In fact if this is correct some of the existing SS-18's may in fact already be assigned FOBS operational capability though this remains uncertain.
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:22 am

    With a grain of salt as weekend funnies.

    Hypersonic Weapons Should Be Under Int'l Rules - UK Nuclear Operations Head

    https://sputniknews.com/military/201707271055913242-uk-hypersonic-weapons-under-rules/

    OMAHA (Sputnik) — Hypersonic weapons should be under international norms and rules, UK's Head of Nuclear Operations for the Director General Nuclear, Commodore Paul Burke, told Sputnik.
    "Any weapons system should actually commit to some international norms and some regulations, absolutely," Burke stated on the margins of the STRATCOM Deterrence Symposium in Nebraska on Wednesday. "It should definitely be under some international regulations."

    Paul Burke also noted that London is following Russia developing hypersonic aviation means of destruction yet is not capable of developing their own system.

    "We watch what Russia is doing, absolutely. We’ll keep an eye on what we’re doing and trying to respond accordingly usually through diplomatic, international norms and treaty obligations," Burke said. "The UK wouldn’t be able to do anything like that. So, we wouldn't be able to develop that sort of system ourselves."



    and here below RAND report

    Hypersonic Missile Nonproliferation Hindering the Spread of a New Class of Weapons

    https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_reports/RR2137.html



    Key Findings

    [*]New Class of Threat

    Hypersonic missiles are a new class of threat because they are capable both of maneuvering and of flying faster than 5,000 kilometers per hour, which would enable such missiles to penetrate most missile defenses and to further compress the timelines for response by a nation under attack.

    The proliferation of such missiles beyond the United States, Russia, and China could result in other powers compressing their response timelines in ways that set their strategic forces on hair-trigger states of readiness — such as a strategy of "launch on warning." And such proliferation could enable such states to more credibly threaten attacks on major powers.

    There is probably less than a decade available to substantially hinder the potential proliferation of hypersonic missiles and associated technologies.
    There appears to be interest in hypersonic missile nonproliferation and at least a few years available for relevant governments to put a policy in place.


    International Concern

    The unavoidable requirement is for the United States, Russia, and China to agree on a nonproliferation policy.
    France could play a key role in bringing other governments into agreement on a broader control policy.
    The technical and economic barriers to developing hypersonic technology are great enough to add to the effectiveness of a nonproliferation policy.



    Recommendations
    A two-tiered approach to containing the spread of hypersonic systems and components appears to be the most promising.
    First, we recommend a policy of export denial for complete hypersonic delivery vehicles and enough major subsystems to effectively provide access to complete hypersonic missiles.

    Second, given dual-use concerns, we also recommend a policy of case-by-case export reviews for scramjets and other hypersonic engines and components, fuels for hypersonic use, sensors, navigation, and communication items for hypersonic flight, hypersonic flight controls, design tools and modeling for such uses, and ground simulation and testing for hypersonic systems.

    The necessary first step is for the United States, Russia, and China to agree not to export complete hypersonic missiles or their major subsystems. Beyond that, the control list recommended in this report can be the basis for international discussions.[/b]











    So British and French loosers are to control Russian and Chinese winners? on US command as always? bonne chance with that
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    kvs

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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  kvs on Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:09 am

    Utterly pathetic. Poor little NATO ubmerenschen can't handle a new class of weapons. I thought these weapons were old news to the
    technological masters of the universe.

    The only "proliferation" of these weapons that I have seen is Brahmos, a collaboration between India and Russia. So Rand and NATO can
    go an bugger themselves off.
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  PapaDragon on Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:48 am

    ...The necessary first step is for the United States, Russia, and China to agree not to export complete hypersonic missiles or their major subsystems. 

    Oh I can already see how this would work. Just like nukes: no export but there will be some kind of "hypersonic sharing" inside NATO while Russia and China would have to adhere to rules.

    Fucks that crap, I say hypersonic vehicles for everyone who can pay or make, it will be next step towards lasting and stable world peace.
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    AlfaT8

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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  AlfaT8 on Mon Nov 13, 2017 5:11 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    ...The necessary first step is for the United States, Russia, and China to agree not to export complete hypersonic missiles or their major subsystems. 

    Oh I can already see how this would work. Just like nukes: no export but there will be some kind of "hypersonic sharing" inside NATO while Russia and China would have to adhere to rules.

    Fucks that crap, I say hypersonic vehicles for everyone who can pay or make, it will be next step towards lasting and stable world peace.

    Are they F'ing serious??
    As if Russia or China would adhere to such nonsense given the current political sh%t show.

    And doesn't Europe have bigger problems, like those brownies who are massacring there people.
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Tue Dec 19, 2017 8:41 pm

    The US, China and Russia are trying to create a hypersonic air-breathing jet engine


    Hypersonic speeds missiles have long mastered. The combat parts of our strategic missiles fly on hypersound on the final flight trajectory. The work goes on creating engines that can work for a long time on modes that repeatedly exceed the speed of sound.

    To hypersonic speed is the one that exceeds the sound one five times. It is measured in the Mach (M). So, the warheads of the "Topols" and "Yars" before the final impact reach the speed of 25M - they can not be destroyed by any anti-missiles.
    Lately, much has been said about the work on hypersonic rockets, and only in the future and as something very difficult.

    The developer of domestic missiles for mobile land complexes Yuri Solomonov believes that there is a confusion of concepts. By itself, the hypersonic speed has long been achieved and something insurmountable is not. And now in the US, China and Russia, they are trying to create a hypersonic ramjet-propelled jet engine - the GPVRD. Its feature, in addition to the development of a huge speed, is the absence of an oxidizer on board. Only fuel. The oxidizing agent must be atmospheric oxygen. A rocket with such an engine part of the trajectory flies in the atmosphere, part in the cosmic airless space. It must be managed and maneuvered. With the advent of such missiles, a completely new type of weapon will be created - hypersonic aeroballistic systems.

    Technologically, this is a very difficult task. It is not worth waiting for the rapid emergence of serial missiles from the GVRM. But work in this direction is on the increase. Who will be their first owner?

    https://rg.ru/2017/12/02/ssha-knr-i-rf-pytaiutsia-sozdat-giperzvukovoj-vozdushno-reaktivnyj-dvigatel.html



    If something is here strange - air breathing engine is for heights where there is enough air then friction cooks all. Does it make sense for weapons? unless very compact, ultra fast for short distance do tey are not gonna cook?
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    kvs

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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  kvs on Tue Dec 19, 2017 10:49 pm

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:The US, China and Russia are trying to create a hypersonic air-breathing jet engine


    Hypersonic speeds missiles have long mastered. The combat parts of our strategic missiles fly on hypersound on the final flight trajectory. The work goes on creating engines that can work for a long time on modes that repeatedly exceed the speed of sound.

    To hypersonic speed is the one that exceeds the sound one five times. It is measured in the Mach (M). So, the warheads of the "Topols" and "Yars" before the final impact reach the speed of 25M - they can not be destroyed by any anti-missiles.
    Lately, much has been said about the work on hypersonic rockets, and only in the future and as something very difficult.

    The developer of domestic missiles for mobile land complexes Yuri Solomonov believes that there is a confusion of concepts. By itself, the hypersonic speed has long been achieved and something insurmountable is not. And now in the US, China and Russia, they are trying to create a hypersonic ramjet-propelled jet engine - the GPVRD. Its feature, in addition to the development of a huge speed, is the absence of an oxidizer on board. Only fuel. The oxidizing agent must be atmospheric oxygen. A rocket with such an engine part of the trajectory flies in the atmosphere, part in the cosmic airless space. It must be managed and maneuvered. With the advent of such missiles, a completely new type of weapon will be created - hypersonic aeroballistic systems.

    Technologically, this is a very difficult task. It is not worth waiting for the rapid emergence of serial missiles from the GVRM. But work in this direction is on the increase. Who will be their first owner?

    https://rg.ru/2017/12/02/ssha-knr-i-rf-pytaiutsia-sozdat-giperzvukovoj-vozdushno-reaktivnyj-dvigatel.html



    If something is here strange - air breathing engine is for heights where there is enough air then friction cooks all. Does it make sense for weapons? unless very compact, ultra fast  for short distance do tey are not gonna cook?

    Scramjets would allow a saving in fuel weight (no oxidizer) as noted in the article. The hypersonic regime of a scramjet is not confined
    to super velocities. If jets can fly above the speed of sound a few km above the surface, then so can scramjets. The cost is the
    design of the intake-combustion-outflow manifold since it must achieve combustion are relatively low speeds. As the speed of the
    object the scramjet increases, the shape of this manifold requires change as well. This is actually a major limitation of scramjets; they
    are stuck in a particular regime via their geometry. Until some variable geometry scramjet is designed, it will not be able to operate
    at all altitudes and speeds.
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sun Dec 24, 2017 2:38 am

    kvs wrote:

    Scramjets would allow a saving in fuel weight (no oxidizer) as noted in the article.   The hypersonic regime of a scramjet is not confined
    to super velocities.    If jets can fly above the speed of sound a few km above the surface, then so can scramjets.   The cost is the
    design of the intake-combustion-outflow manifold since it must achieve combustion are relatively low speeds.   As the speed of the
    object the scramjet increases, the shape of this manifold requires change as well.   This is actually a major limitation of scramjets; they
    are stuck in a particular regime via their geometry.   Until some variable geometry scramjet is designed, it will not be able to operate
    at all altitudes and speeds.

    True but scremjet hypersonic engine sounds like engine should fly hypersonic. According to wiki Smile 3-4Ma is lower range but at high en can be form 12 till 24 Ma...prtty fast. Still not sure how wings can helo here. But OK let's live and see.

    Russia's apparently already is working on Ma 12-14 hypersonic missiles for bobmbers.

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