Russia Arms Expo 2013

Boomerang looks something like this as displayed in official picture



So I am not certain if what we are looking is Boomerang

Some more info related to the turret.

http://s018.radikal.ru/i528/1309/93/e421f5bd2f4f.jpg

57mm APFSDS in the works.

http://s5.uploads.ru/gQr7Z.jpg

It isnt boomerang but some sort of weird looking vehicle made as JV between Russia and France.

I would love to see the BMPT with the 57mm.....

sepheronx wrote:It isnt boomerang but some sort of weird looking vehicle made as JV between Russia and France.

For example, as far as I know, in Tagil will be shown a concept of a new Russian-French machine it was designed for just four months. Yes, it's just a concept car, but it affects the speed with which it was created. Yes

(director of the Center for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies Ruslan Pukhov)

LINK

It is Vextra chassis with Russian turret as some guy on MP pointed.

xeno wrote:
It is Vextra chassis with Russian turret as some guy on MP pointed.

14.5mm or 23mm?

TR1 wrote:I would love to see the BMPT with the 57mm.....

Armata BTR would have 12.7, 14.5, or 23mm main guns.

Armata BMP would use the 57mm.

Armata BMPT will either have twin 30's or the 120mm & GSh-23-6, depending on what the army chooses for the production model.

Are you totally sure GarryB of that ?

Read this thread:

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?230601-Russia-Arms-Expo-%28RAE%29-2013-in-Nizhnyj-Tagil/page2

Particularly post # 28.

Entire aft section and middle and upper body frame is completely different from the French vehicle.....

I said it was a joint French/Russian vehicle... I didn't say it was a Russian turret on a French chassis.

In fully mobile offensive/defensive large scale engagements at medium range -1500-2000 m - against enemy IFVs and MBT employing today unguided rounds (mostly KE APFSDS with today level of muzzle velocity) a sensible reduction of target area (in particular in silhouette's height) lead to a significant reduction of the number of Hits - up to 25-30 %- independently from enemy FCS sophistication.

A well designed medium armoured vehicle should be protected over its frontal 60 degree arc out to about 1,500m from that sort of ammo, so getting hit with 25-30% more projectiles should not result in a penetration.

What just said mean that a significant percentage of blue's fire power continue to achieve attrition on enemy vehicles leading ,at its own time, to the achievement of a progressively faster numerical and fire power's overmatch on enemy units as the engagement evolve subordinately to the time function..

High velocity darts penetrating the turret will not effect the performance of this vehicle... whatever it is... assuming the turret is unmanned.

The 3 m high silhouette western design would be not merely more prone ,but enormously more prone to being hit by unguided IFV and MBT's enemy fire in mobile large scale ground engagements ,at medium/long range, in comparison to IFV such as BMP-2/3, the leading idea behind this design choice has been produced mostly by the belief that such large scale engagements against very powerful enemies would be immensely less probable than a small scale regional conflict against enemy insurgents employing mostly IED and ambush Wink.

Small compact designs limit the choice as to where ammo and fuel and personel can be placed... smaller targets are therefore high density targets where a penetrating hit is more likely to hit crew or ammo or fuel leading to casualties.

I do appreciate that making a vehicle a huge target is not desirable in itself, but making it comfortable to operate in and able to store all the items needed operationally are more important IMHO.

all converge toward a design clearly optimized for RCS reduction in the high frequency scattering regime an for magnification of ground clutter screening from airborne-based radar sensors.

That will be a consideration too... any vehicle entering Russian Military service will likely be anti radar and anti IIR coated to minimise signature.

14.5mm or 23mm?

Based on the muzzle flash hider and barrel length I would say for certain it is 23mm... more precisely 23 x 152mm as used on the ZU-23 and ZSU-23-4... a very powerful high velocity round for anti armour and anti aircraft use.

Armata BTR would have 12.7, 14.5, or 23mm main guns.

Armata BMP would use the 57mm.

Armata BMPT will either have twin 30's or the 120mm & GSh-23-6, depending on what the army chooses for the production model.

Yes, or to translate it into vehicle classes... the APC model Armata will have HMG to light cannon armament... ie 12.7/14.5/23/30mm cannon plus likely lots of MGs and of course grenade launchers likely in 40mm calibre like the new Balkan.
The IFV model Armata needs to deal with enemy IFVs which might start off requiring a 57mm (30mm is already inadequate with several western IFVs), but may eventually require 125mm smoothbore to take on tank based IFVs.
The BMPT is a firepower vehicle used for anti ambush against a range of infantry targets... the old armament of two 30mm cannon would be an option, though I greatly prefer heavier firepower in the form of a high rate of fire cannon and a heavy cannon for harder targets... a 23mm 6 barrel rotary cannon and a 120mm gun/mortar fill that niche very effectively... especially with guided missile rounds able to engage targets at extended ranges.

ROE: secret "Almaty was" a tower in the desert

MOSCOW, Sept. 23 - RIA Novosti. main feature of the new generation of Russian tank "Armata" will desert tower, placing the crew in bronekapsuly and maximum automation of management, said in an interview with RIA Novosti deputy general director of Rosoboronexport Igor Sevastyanov.
The newest tank "Armata" will be shown in the exhibition closed at the IX International Exhibition of Arms, Military Equipment and Ammunition Russia Arms Expo-2013 (RAE-2013).
Chairman DOSAAF General retired colonel Sergey Maev

General Maev: tank "Armata" will shoot missiles
"Due to the secrecy of development, it should be a private screening, and talk about the specific characteristics of the new generation tank prematurely. <...> The main features of the combat vehicle of the future - the desert tower, bronekapsuly for the crew accommodation of ammunition outside the location of people, automation and control warfare "- said Sevastiyanov.


He noted that to date, "Armata" - a single platform for the heavy armored vehicles, constructed in a modular fashion.
That it will be at the heart of the new tank, fire support vehicles, armored recovery vehicle, engineering machinery obstacle clearing and clearance, heavy flamethrower cars, armored vehicle launched bridges and other equipment.


LINK

Interview with Deputy General Director of "Rosoboronexport" Igor Sevastyanov


[quote]

- Igor O., on Russia Arms EXPO 2013 is expected to demonstrate a prototype main battle tank of the new generation, "Armata". What are the features of this machine?


- Because of the secrecy of development, it should be a private screening, and talk about the specific characteristics of the new generation tank prematurely. The main features of the combat vehicle of the future - the desert tower, bronekapsuly for the crew accommodation of ammunition outside the location of people, automation and control warfare. "Armata" - a single, unified platform for heavy armored vehicles, constructed in a modular fashion. That it will be at the heart of the new tank, fire support vehicles, armored recovery vehicle, engineering machinery obstacle clearing and clearance, heavy flamethrower cars, armored vehicle launched bridges and other equipment.


- More recently, the Russian defense industry companies are allowed to present at international trade fairs not only samples of their products for military purposes, but also R & D (research and development activities). Why is that?


- Yes, but it is only about Russian exhibitions. Previously, this was not. This is a new and very promising level of cooperation not only with Russia, but also with foreign partners. It happens that the company has ideas, but no money to implement them. A partnership with foreign customers will help to solve this problem. But we are not talking about scientific and technological developments related to the proliferation of missile technology, nuclear weapons, weapons of mass destruction.


- What is the Russian equipment presented at the IX International Exhibition Russia Arms EXPO 2013 is in demand on the world arms market?


- First of all - it's the upgraded T-90C (now it is more often referred to as T-90ms). Keeping the best qualities of its predecessor (MBT T-90), it is the basic combat, tactical and technical characteristics and performance far exceeded the basic model. It features a new combat tower module, advanced chassis and has increased protection. This tank has proved to be excellent in terms of high combat efficiency, exceptional reliability and easy maintenance. We hope that in the near future T-90ms will be one of the most sought-after in the world.


- Now "Rosoboronexport" is actively promoting the global arms market fighting vehicle fire support BMPT. What are its characteristics?


- This is a completely new type of combat vehicle. Foreign military are not yet familiar with its actual use, and do not know all of its features. And here, at the site in Nizhny Tagil, it will appear in all its glory and power. BMPT has a modern set of weapons to fight the living power of the enemy, the suppression of anti-tank weapons, the destruction of well-protected, as well as low-flying targets before they take effect. During its firepower and combat effectiveness, it was nicknamed "The Terminator."


- What other trends are expected?


- Another unique machine - upgraded BMP-3 (BMP-3M). She retained all the benefits of a basic model, but has become more mobile, and thanks to an improved fire control system, capable of even more productively identify targets and to deliver fire at long range and high speeds. BMP-3M combines the functions of a fighter tanks, combat support vehicles and transport infantry, allowing to achieve a greater impact fewer machines. From the combination of the properties of Russian combat infantry fighting vehicle surpasses the best foreign models. It has amphibious, transportability all modes of transport. No other infantry fighting vehicle does not have these characteristics. These properties are evaluated on the merits of the army over the world, so the export BMP-3M and naval modification of BMP-3F has hundreds of units.


- Heavy flamethrower system TOS-1A already enjoyed success among the foreign customers?


- TOS-1A purchased several countries. It is designed to provide fire support to combat units. The composition of TOS-1A consists of three war machines: BM-1 with a launcher (pack of 24 guide tubes for rockets) and two transport-loading vehicle (TLV-T). All equipment is mounted on tank chassis. An important feature of the TOS-1A - high accuracy and automated testing of angles of sight. Fighting machine TOS-1A participated in actual combat, and is already in service with the armies of several countries.


- What small arms and close combat will be able to see the visitors to the exhibition in Nizhny Tagil?


- Various modifications of the famous Kalashnikov assault rifle, including the "hundredth" series, a high-performance machine guns "Cord" and "Pecheneg" sniper rifles SVD and SIDS. Exhibitors will also be able to evaluate the strength and accuracy of the Russian 50-mm grenade CSG-50 and 30-mm RGS-33 antitank grenade launcher RPG-29, to ensure the efficiency of jet infantry flamethrower "Bumblebee" and "Boer". Presents current development of special weapons for use in urban environments, can help to minimize civilian casualties, hostages, and special forces, as well as to minimize the destruction of material objects.


- What will be presented to Russia Arms EXPO 2013 car number?


- First of all - it is a series of military trucks "Kamaz". New features of these machines - increased thrust, increased margin of safety of the assembly, light steering, reliable brakes and comfortable cabin. These qualities have allowed the military to assign a family of "KamAZ" the highest category of quality, it was appreciated by foreign customers. Only during the period 2004-2011 in Qatar, Bahrain, Yemen, Syria, has sold more than a thousand of these vehicles. Now consider the possibility of creating an assembly production of "KAMAZ" in Cuba, where output will be 500 vehicles per year. Similar projects are being studied and other countries. "KamAZ" continues to increase production as military and civilian vehicles, and increasing the export potential of the company.


- A well-known "Ural"?

- Cars multipurpose family "Ural" is specifically designed as army trucks for the most extreme operating conditions. They stand in the armies of more than 40 countries and all have established themselves as the standard cross, endurance and reliability. Different types of troops used more than 400 items of special equipment and weapons, which is installed on the chassis of the "Ural", because of its capacity from 6 to 25 tons, and the weight of the towed trailer - from 4 to 60 tons.


- How interesting foreign partners "Rosoboronexport" multi-purpose armored vehicle family "Tiger"?

- The fact that the armored car "Tiger" adopted for use by the Ministry of Defence and the Interior Troops of Russia, speaks volumes. Potential buyers from abroad and actively eyeing purchase this technique. "Rosoboronexport" has delivered already in 10 countries.


- What is the export potential of the special armored vehicle VPK-3924 SPM-3 "Bear" ?


- In my opinion, very high. She has just completed a series of state tests, but this car has a state contract and receives appeals from foreign partners. "Bear" is able to successfully solve a wide range of special tasks in different environments due to relatively high indices of security, cross-country and reserve. It can be mounted various weapons and equipment, and landing (7-8 fully-equipped fighters, not including the driver and the vehicle commander) may use personal weapons firing through loopholes.


- In recent years, the armies of the leading countries has significantly increased the role of automation and communication. The exhibition in Nizhny Tagil n redstavleny new Russian developments. What is it?


- Effective management of military action is necessary to ensure reliable and protected against unauthorized access by means of automation and communications personnel, sergeants and officers. To solve this problem is developed and put into production a uniform set of soldier - adapted to fighting smart phone and tablet. Tests have shown that it is able to meet the most exacting demands and requirements. It allows you to fully integrate the military into a single system automation, control and communications department, platoon, company, effectively carry out combat missions.


- A biathlon competitions Tank - is an element of the new marketing strategy of "Rosoboronexport"?


- Tank biathlon opens up new horizons for the demonstration of combat power, and endurance running capabilities of modern armored vehicles, it is interesting to potential foreign customers.


- Will it be something in the relationship between Russia and India in the purchase and sale of weapons after an explosion on a submarine Indian Navy, which was made ​​in Russia?


- Russia is ready to help India in building national naval forces. This may be a repair and modernization of the extension of the operational life of the Russian-made submarines, Russia also plans to put its latest development - the submarine Amur-1650 to participate in the Indian tender for the purchase of six new diesel-electric submarines.


- Activities of "Rosoboronexport" is associated with export supplies of Russian military products. But then import weapons - also your scope. To what extent, and that buys "Rosoboronexport" for our country?


- Total imports of arms compared to exports is low. One of the largest suppliers in the Russian military-technical cooperation is France. At the end of last year, according to the Defense Ministry, Russian defense products purchased in France in the amount of 118.6 million euros (156 million dollars). The maximum amount of volume of Russian orders came in 2011, when a contract was signed for the construction of two Russian amphibious assault ships.



LINK

Another day and another 1 billion Euro contracted by Rosoboronexport   

Russia may sign on RAE contracts to export weapons to EUR 1 billion

The pictures on post no' 2 looks to me like the VBM from Freeccia Italy. may be part of corporation like they had with the
Centauro.

[url=https://servimg.com/view/17449660/93][/url


On the 57mm gun that we saw in post no'-2 we see a terminal sleeve different than regular tank's sleeve, can some body explain please.

The sleeve on the prototype seems to be optimised to reduce the radar signature of the main gun barrel unlike most gun sleeves which are generally optimised to ensure a steady temperature over the barrel.

When a vehicle sits outside for long periods without firing the gun the sunlight on the upper side can heat the barrel while the underside remains cool... having one side hot and one side cold leads to the metal expanding on top and remaining unexpanded underneath leading to what is called barrel droop.

As seen on modern tanks a sleeve ensures uniform temperature over the whole barrel and often has a muzzle reference reflector and radar sensor to detect barrel shape.

Options for modernizing the T-72




T-72 BMPT



Urban survival kit




On a side note, IMO the T-72 BMPT turret will probably be identical to what UVZ proposes for the Armata BMPT.

I wouldn't really call those two modernising the T-72... I would suggest a more realistic description would be two adaptations to the T-72 to match two different roles... namely firepower support vehicle for tank units (BMPT) and an urban combat adaptation...

First photo from the show. I took a screenshot from the video at the news site vesti.
It is the urban survival kit on a T-72.

I can think of some interested parties...... :/

TR1 wrote:I can think of some interested parties...... :/

That certain party's war has pushed the Russians to seriously consider marketing T-72 modifications.

The mods appear to be simple and affordable, perfect for rapidly upgrading a T-72 fleet.  

GarryB wrote:I wouldn't really call those two modernising the T-72

I would, given that the T-72 as built for the Cold War. These beast are being upgraded for the 21st century battlefield. However, I understand your point. The T-72B3 is a modernization of the T-72 in the purest sense.

Rogozin: BMPT "Terminator 2" will be based on the platform "Armata"

Viktor wrote:Rogozin: BMPT "Terminator 2" will be based on the platform "Armata"

When he says "world premier" is he implying that the armata chassis will be publicly revealed?

"Terminator 2"

I think of a modernisation as being using newer technologies to allow it to do its job better... ie more powerful gun, or improved ammo, or improved optics or fire control system, or new armour

The BMPT is a change of role to allow it to deal with soft targets more effectively though with protection levels comparable to the tank it is based upon.

The Urban conflict T-72 is just addons that are largely just the extra stuff they fit when they go into a real danger area like slat armour and all the ERA and bits it would normally carry.

In other words the add ons make it more suited to a new role, without actually making it more "modern" as such.

When the armata BMPT is revealed I would love to see a modification for older vehicles, but keep in mind that the Armata BMPT does not have to accomodate two crewmen in its design which means more space and more flexibility with the shape and size of everything.

The autoloader for the 120mm gun/mortar plus 40mm grenade launcher and 23mm gatling might not leave enough space for two crew so it might be impossible to have a T-72 or T-90 based BMPT with the same armament.

I still think they could fit the 100mm rifled gun of the BMP-3M and replace the two 2A42 cannon with a single GSh-30K as fitted in the F model Hinds. As difficult as it might seem to believe the GSh-30K would actually be lighter than the 2 2A42s, yet would offer much better rate of fire performance and high velocity. Of course the 23mm GSh-23-6M would offer rate of fire, and light weight and compact ammo with a good HE punch and lower recoil.

A decent grenade launcher would round out the fire power as a low velocity weapon able to shoot over heavy frontal cover and hit enemy forces that think they are safe.

The 100mm HE shells pack rather more punch than any light automatic cannon could provide, though the 120mm gun/mortar rounds of the armata BMPT add shells and mortar bombs with significantly more power and extended range, plus laser guided missiles based on the Gran 120mm mortar round and the Kitolov and Kitolov-2M which is normally a 122mm round that is compatible with the 120mm rifled gun/mortar.

The 120mm gun mortar on the Vena can reach 13km with shells and I would expect the new gun for the armata BMPT should match the 15km range of the 122mm guns, which means the gun itself can be standardised as a replacement in the wheeled brigades for the Vena mortar carriers and 2S1 122mm SPA.

That would mean tube artillery could be unified to 120mm gun/mortars, and 152mm MSTA/Koalition, with 122mm calibre systems being replaced with 120mm gun/mortars and other calibres like 203mm and 240mm kept for special uses like mountain warfare or sieges.

Of course what it lacks in range the 240mm mortar makes up in shell weight with its laser guided 240mm HE Frag shell weighing in at about 130kgs... my entire body weight plus about 5kgs...   Who is a fatty...  

Rogozin: BMPT "Terminator 2" will be based on the platform "Armata"

Which raises the question... is it because the unmanned turret allows heavier fire power, or is it because of the heavier armour of the hull... then again the whole purpose of the BMPT was to support tanks in places where IFVs and air defence vehicles like Tunguska and Shilka wont last long, but then that is the purpose of Armata... all the vehicles having tank level armour and mobility so the IFV in the Armata unit will have heavy anti personel fire power and tank level armour so why have BMPT?

Personally I think in many ways the BMPT is a combination of the ISU-152 and a Shilka in that it will pretty much be engaging enemy hardpoints and threats that tanks are not well equipped to engage while also not burdened with the task of taking on enemy armour (role of the tank) or moving troops around the battlefield (IFV and APC).

In many cases where the enemy has no armour a BMPT might actually be more use than a MBT and might operate with IFVs to offer mutual support, and of course in the convoy escort role they should be rather devastating... 23mm cannon shells at 12,000 rpm... 200 per second!!!! that is one hell of a cluster bomb effect. 

all the vehicles having tank level armour and mobility so the IFV in the Armata unit will have heavy anti personel fire power and tank level armour so why have BMPT?

How much would it cost to replace a Pantsir radar array that has been shot full of holes?

How long will it take infantry to dismount under sniper fire and provide cover for an MBT during an ambush?

>>> http://www.itar-tass.com/c701/890936.html











From otvaga2004