Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #1

I cannot help thinking that a SHLV could be afforded relatively cheaply if Russia would enter into a joint development with China for their planned LM-9. Given that engines are likely to be a major focus of development, Russia could assist greatly by provided technology for RD-0120 hydrolox engines for the core stage and possibly Angara URM-1s as strap-ons, though an upgraded design using RD-181 would be a more energetic option.

Q - would Russia accept an arrangement where RD-0120 manufacture was re-started in China, and where the jointly-developed booster would be launched from a Chinese pad (at least initially)?

In time, Russia could fund and build their own RD-0120 & LM9 line and launch complex (the rights to such would form part of the joint development agreement), and this would provide a useful redundancy in the event of accidents disabling either nations SHLV pad(s).

About 30% of the payload is surrendered for Falcon 9. This new Falcon 9 Full Thrust has massive propellant reserves to allow reuse and engine out capability, an unheard of level of propellant densification by superchilling (more propellantss per volume) and a 33% performance increase over the previous Falcon 9 v1.1. And this spring comes Falcon Heavy, 3 of these new beasts tied together and capable of out-lifting Atlas V, Delta IV Heavy, Proton etc.

max steel wrote:About 30% of the payload is surrendered for Falcon 9. This new Falcon 9 Full Thrust has massive propellant reserves to allow reuse and engine out capability, an unheard of level of propellant densification by superchilling (more propellantss per volume) and a 33% performance increase over the previous Falcon 9 v1.1. And this spring comes Falcon Heavy, 3 of these new beasts tied together and capable of out-lifting Atlas V, Delta IV Heavy, Proton etc.

...and AFAIK no-one has yet explained exactly what the F9H is supposed to lift. Space station modules? Nope, nothing planned. Manned lunar expeditions? Nope. Multiple heavy geostationary commsats? No-one is going to risk 3-4 heavy birds on a single launch.

F9H doesn't make any sense to me. It seems to be a rocket without a (realistic) mission.

Big_Gazza wrote:

max steel wrote:About 30% of the payload is surrendered for Falcon 9. This new Falcon 9 Full Thrust has massive propellant reserves to allow reuse and engine out capability, an unheard of level of propellant densification by superchilling (more propellantss per volume) and a 33% performance increase over the previous Falcon 9 v1.1. And this spring comes Falcon Heavy, 3 of these new beasts tied together and capable of out-lifting Atlas V, Delta IV Heavy, Proton etc.

...and AFAIK no-one has yet explained exactly what the F9H is supposed to lift.  Space station modules?  Nope, nothing planned.   Manned lunar expeditions?  Nope.   Multiple heavy geostationary commsats?  No-one is going to risk 3-4 heavy birds on a single launch.

F9H doesn't make any sense to me.  It seems to be a rocket without a (realistic) mission.

its about capability. extra capability. it may have zero launches first year and 5 launches next year then zero again...
anyway use can be in heavy interplanetary probes, telescopes to langragian points, and moon missions....just few options

sepheronx wrote:And hence why a western article will use him.  I guess he forgets that Roscosmos budget, even if partially slashed, is a heck of a lot more than used to be. And being operated as a state run company vs what it was before, allows roscosmos to also obtain its own profits and any additional revenue can be moved to whatever program is needed.

We were told a super heavy rocket is pooched idea. But now it apparently is back on the table.  What next that was initially slashed will be brought back?  

People mock Roscosmos or Russia for their own egos. But they also mocked India's attempt and sure enough, India was successful with a significantly less budget.  Roscosmos will now have more room to manouver around and do its business.  It will not only be profitable compared to before, it will also have more options in obtaining successful adventures.

well when they finish vostochny ,that would free resourses, money ,for new rockets. and as i  said it was stupid not to have heavy class rocket and no angrara56789 can do that.

Well, Vostochni is ongoing project, this is first phase so two more to go (Angara and new super heavy rocket infrastructure) but those phases should be smaller in terms of overall work since important bits are in place now.

With the super heavy class back in the pipeline with PTK-NP and full range of rocket classes only thing left is that space borne nuclear reactor and ion engine. After foundations are firmly in place they can fully commit to scientific missions.

sepheronx wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:
Well, Vostochni is ongoing project, this is first phase so two more to go (Angara and new super heavy rocket infrastructure) but those phases should be smaller in terms of overall work since important bits are in place now.

With the super heavy class back in the pipeline with PTK-NP and full range of rocket classes only thing left is that space borne nuclear reactor and ion engine. After foundations are firmly in place they can fully commit to scientific missions.

Nuclear engines are still ongoing for sure.  Dunno about Ion engine.

The nuclear engine is a big ion engine. Russia has not sent any solar system probes for a long time but if it does in the future
it will want a small nuclear powered ion engine for such missions.

Russian engineers asking NASA to jointly depelop a program to the moon ,
is incredibly naive and stupid. The whole point of going to the moon is promoting
your country Technological Superiority and promote Business with your nation. Not to go there to the moon ,just for the fun of it. there have to be a real benefit ,and economic and technology one in going there. This means that Russia needs to compete with US and not to work with them ,not at least until Americans continue its hostile policies to isolate Russia. If Russia land in the moon on its own ,without any external cooperation Bullshit ,the benefits Russia will get and promotion for business with be enourmous. it will create a major wave of talented students and scientist that will want to go to Russia to be part of the winning team. It will create thousands and thousands of new Business opportunity in the form of investors , advertising , Television rights to show the Russian landing , it will Put Russia in into the leader in space , specially when majority of people believe the Apollo program and American landing was a hoax. It will promote space tourism. and more than anything ,this will skyrocket the morale and self stem of Russians to study engineering or science and promote patriotism and nation unity. Any collaboration with NASA will have to be only AFTER Russia did it first alone.. So that Americans did not overshadow the achievement of Russia. Everyone loves space , is exciting. but Russia do not
get it ,how important is to really use their space program to boost their nation image. Landing in the moon alone ,will boost Russia image in the world more than 50x Sochi Olympics. And will provoke lost of companies and business fighting for a minute of promotion in space for their products on board of Russia space rockets. In American footbal , companies pay millions for just 30 seconds of advertisement in the football finals. And Russia lack of experience in capitalism do not see the huge potential they could get from their space program. Had Putin and Russian Government understood the opportunities , they will put all their bets in a really ambitious space program with 2x or 3x times the budget. and reduce the size of spending in other things like Sports or developing new nukes , things that do not promote Russia for business as much if any in comparison.

http://tass.ru/kosmos/2585962

Russian orbital grouping by 2025 will be 70 instead of 95 vehicles

MOSCOW, Jan. 14. / TASS /. The number of satellites in the Russian orbital group in 2025 will be 70 satellites instead of the planned 95 units, to the draft Federal Space Program (FCP) in the years 2016-2025, prepared by the Russian Space Agency.

According to the document, which is preparing for the introduction of the approval of the government, in 2025 the number of satellites in the orbital grouping of Russia will be not 95 as planned with a budget of 2 trillion rubles, and 70 units in the new financing. The number of space launches in the new PCF on the years 2016-2025, taking into account the reduction of the budget will be reduced from 185 to 150.

Austin wrote:http://tass.ru/kosmos/2585962

Russian orbital grouping by 2025 will be 70 instead of 95 vehicles

MOSCOW, Jan. 14. / TASS /. The number of satellites in the Russian orbital group in 2025 will be 70 satellites instead of the planned 95 units, to the draft Federal Space Program (FCP) in the years 2016-2025, prepared by the Russian Space Agency.

According to the document, which is preparing for the introduction of the approval of the government, in 2025 the number of satellites in the orbital grouping of Russia will be not 95 as planned with a budget of 2 trillion rubles, and 70 units in the new financing. The number of space launches in the new PCF on the years 2016-2025, taking into account the reduction of the budget will be reduced from 185 to 150.

Well that is some serious reduction to be honest, seems budget cuts in that area were quite severe.

Agreed cutting space program is ridiculous , 2 Trillion Roubles or just about $30 billion is penuts over 10 years time frame.

Austin wrote:Agreed cutting space program is ridiculous  , 2 Trillion Roubles or just about $30 billion is penuts over 10 years time frame.

It was however always the case. Back in 90s all the money they had went towards Space station and rest was barely funded coz budget cuts in space research were the highest.

So now i guess they will just focus on launching enough satelites to keep Glonass going and only crucial satelites for Gov and communication.

George1 wrote:More space program cuts..

Russia to give up Moon, Mars missions witout support from Europe

"The launches will be implemented only with the participation of the European Space Agency in the project," says the note to the Moon-29/Moon-Grunt and Bumerang projects

More:
http://tass.ru/en/science/849578

I did not lay many hopes in these projects anyways, but it surely is a shame they might be terminated.

Meanwhile the European Union will launch a probe to mars without Russia.

Meanwhile, the European Space Agency (ESA) is planning to launch the first part of its ExoMars mission on March 14, with the Trace Gas Orbiter (TGO) taking off on a seven-month journey towards Mars to look for sources of methane.

Mr Putin the shorsight president needs to stop thinking in cooperation with their "partners"
in space. and kick his own ass real hard ,and start developing a robust space programs that goes beyond a taxi to the ISS. Cutting the budget on their Space program is the most ridiculous and stupid thing they could have done..and giving up in Mars and Moon ,unless Europe goes with them. Thats totally stupid. Russia will never be taken seriously ever as long it continues depending in the west and not showing that Russia is a leader that can truly be an alternative to US in space and technology development.

Vann7 wrote:

Meanwhile the European Union will launch a probe to mars without Russia.

Meanwhile, the European Space Agency (ESA) is planning to launch the first part of its ExoMars mission on March 14, with the Trace Gas Orbiter (TGO) taking off on a seven-month journey towards Mars to look for sources of methane.

Mr Putin the shorsight president needs to stop thinking in cooperation with their "partners"
in space. and kick his own ass real hard ,and start developing a robust space programs that goes beyond a taxi to the ISS. Cutting the budget on their Space program is the most ridiculous and stupid thing they could have done..and giving up in Mars and Moon ,unless Europe goes with them. Thats totally stupid. Russia will never be taken seriously ever as long it continues depending in the west and not showing that Russia is a leader that can truly be an alternative to US in space and technology development.

I find this kind of funny actually. If Europe goes to the Moon or Mars, no one will give a crap... It's just the way it is. Europe is rapidly committing suicide, so any long-term space goals they actually manage to achieve, as doubtful as that is in itself, will only be seen (rightly or wrongly) as a temporary success, especially by the American crowd. However, if Russia went by herself at some point, before the US, it would be widely seen (again, especially by the American crowd) as a clear indicator as to just how good their space programs are in terms of technical prowess, and a big "up yours" to the US.

OminousSpudd wrote:.........................................

I find this kind of funny actually. If Europe goes to the Moon or Mars, no one will give a crap... It's just the way it is. Europe is rapidly committing suicide, so any long-term space goals they actually manage to achieve, as doubtful as that is in itself, will only be seen (rightly or wrongly) as a temporary success, especially by the American crowd. However, if Russia went by herself at some point, before the US, it would be widely seen (again, especially by the American crowd) as a clear indicator as to just how good their space programs are in terms of technical prowess, and a big "up yours" to the US.

Planetary probes are secondary priority, new launch systems and manned spaceship are primary and I am glad Russian authorities see it too.

Once you have rockets, spaceports and ships ready you can do whatever you want with scientific missions. But only after!!!

If Euros want to do Moon or Mars with Russia right now then no problem. But otherwise new vehicles and infrastructure come first.

sepheronx wrote:I got a question:

Now that Roscosmos is classified as a company and can seek contracts and what not, what do you think will happen with the small manufacturers of satellites in Russia like Sputnik?  I figure they either cooperate in producing cheaper satellites and miniture ones, or end up getting bought out.

Interested what you guys think.

I thought Roscosmos was not in the satellite manufacturing business. Maybe it will start buying up such companies but that seems like
a rather significant change in focus.