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    The New Arena-E active protection system

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    Vann7
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    Re: The New Arena-E active protection system

    Post  Vann7 on Tue Feb 04, 2014 4:39 am

    Mindstorm wrote:
    It seem that, not only KBM has not abandoned the goal to offer abroad mass production of the modernized Arena-E ,but has also significantly improved its defeating capability against the most modern AT elements (top attack included) and the adaptability to different platforms.

    That should have been obvious for anyone in this discussion when it was posted their promotional Arena material.




    Those promotional posters ,(its content) are not created by secretaries or janitors ,that do not know anything about Arena_E ,but usually by its own designers or technical people close to the developers.

    According to KBM promotional material,Arena-E can defeat (clock wise) hellfire missiles fired from an Apache , Javelin missiles fire from foot ,hellfires from vehicle? and no idea what AT weapon is the top left one. This means that KBM developers feels confident enough to promote Arena-E active defenses against top attack missiles to dedicate a poster for it.  It clearly doesn't means that it will be immune 100% of the time ,against any scenario ,that doesn't exist.. but that is good enough to defeat them in majority of times.

    And looking more at the poster it appears that they do not promote 360 coverage but more like 320.. appears to be a small side in the back of turret not covered ,but that might be just an artistic thing..  But if thats is the case.. i do not see a single problem with that. Any army with a Tank that allows the enemy to fire anti tank missiles from behind their lines ,is doing something terribly wrong and don't deserve to be leading there..  

    There is a lot of misconceptions in this Discussion about how tanks operate in Urban warfare , and it had to do with not seeing them in real combat how they operate. The Syrian army (who is trained by Russia and have advisors too) use T-72M tanks with reactive armor in Rebels controlled zones ,and the fights are not 2km away , but as close as 50 meters away at times ,when they need to enter deep inside urban zones to destroy a fortification. Hit and move tactics is what they do ,they use tanks to force militants leave their positions and infantry finish them.. i have yet to see a Tank being fired a rocket grenade or AT missile from behind in Syria that never happens. All the attacks on tanks are always at the sides 80% of the times and 20% from near front.. The rear line is where is always backed by many soldiers and a command post..  Major problem for operations in Urban zones have not been Rocket grenades or AT missiles.. but mines and IED ,they delay a lot of operations in Urban zones.  Rocket Grenades are next to useless against reactive armor.. unless you do a lucky shot or use a Kornet or a heavy anti tank weapons.
    Arena-E will definitively have no problem weather it can engage the rear or not ,because those are very rare shots and can only happen if there is incompetence in the mobilization of armor.. Neither see a problem with Arena and soldier safety , the only times you will need to cover behind a tank in urban zones is when there are big open spaces..and no building to use as cover..Is there an option to disable arena temporarily that will be good enough.  .Subscribe to Anna News youtube channel ,and you will some real tank operations in Urban warfare.

    http://youtu.be/62kT1WFwrAw


    Last edited by Vann7 on Tue Feb 04, 2014 7:10 am; edited 3 times in total

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    Re: The New Arena-E active protection system

    Post  Regular on Tue Feb 04, 2014 6:08 am

    and no idea what AT weapon is the top left one

    PzF 3-IT

    GarryB
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    Re: The New Arena-E active protection system

    Post  GarryB on Tue Feb 04, 2014 9:52 am

    German Panzerfaust-3.

    Rocket Grenades are next to useless against reactive armor.. unless you do a lucky shot or use a Kornet or a heavy anti tank weapons.

    RPG-28 is a very powerful rocket (125mm calibre) that would likely penetrate any tank from the side including those with ERA for which it has a precursor charge to set the ERA off before the main charge fires.

    APS is like ERA... it doesn't offer 100% protection, and doesn't cover 360 degrees 24/7 but it adds a layer of protection that is more effective against some attacks than others and improves the safety of the vehicle and crew.


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    Re: The New Arena-E active protection system

    Post  collegeboy16 on Wed Feb 05, 2014 5:17 am

    RPG-28 is a nice weapon, tho its still a HEAT round and new Arena can easily deal with it.
    now with decoys, jammers ...

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    Re: The New Arena-E active protection system

    Post  GarryB on Fri Feb 28, 2014 9:46 am

    RPG-28 is a nice weapon, tho its still a HEAT round and new Arena can easily deal with it.
    now with decoys, jammers ...

    ??

    RPG-28 is not guided so decoys and Jammers wont do very much.

    No APS system is perfect... they can certainly be targeted using accurate small arms fire, or simply overwhelmed.

    Or how about a rocket propelled land mine...  Twisted Evil 


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    Re: The New Arena-E active protection system

    Post  Werewolf on Fri Feb 28, 2014 10:07 am

    GarryB wrote:
    RPG-28 is a nice weapon, tho its still a HEAT round and new Arena can easily deal with it.
    now with decoys, jammers ...

    ??

    RPG-28 is not guided so decoys and Jammers wont do very much.

    No APS system is perfect... they can certainly be targeted using accurate small arms fire, or simply overwhelmed.

    Or how about a rocket propelled land mine...   Twisted Evil 

    How about a MON-100 shaped charged mine for AT purposes?

    at minute 04:00



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    Re: The New Arena-E active protection system

    Post  GarryB on Sat Mar 01, 2014 12:38 pm

    How about a MON-100 shaped charged mine for AT purposes?

    The MON-100 is not anti armour... it uses a shaped charge to keep its anti personel fragments in a tighter group so it is effective in the anti personel role out to greater distances.

    the MON-300 also uses a shaped charge shape to focus anti personel fragments so they can be used as a super shotgun over great distances.too.

    they do have mines with shaped charges designed to penetrate armour at standoff distances... the TM-83 for example is a 25cm diameter 25kg mine designed to penetrate an armour plate up to 400mm thick at distances up to 50m. the penetration is up to 80mm wide and can be used at a roadside to attack the sides of passing vehicles.


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    Re: The New Arena-E active protection system

    Post  acatomic on Mon Mar 03, 2014 8:28 pm

    Hi, new member here  Very Happy


    Mindstorm wrote:
    It seem that, not only KBM has not abandoned the goal to offer abroad mass production of the modernized Arena-E ,but has also significantly improved its defeating capability against the most modern AT elements (top attack included) and the adaptability to different platforms.


    Link: New members are not allowed to post external links or emails for 7 days. Please contact the forum administrator for more information.


    Второй проект предусматривает оснащение модернизированного танка Т-72 комплексом активной защиты (КАЗ) "Арена-Э", обеспечивающего защиту танка в круговой зоне 360 град от противотанковых средств - гранат РПГ, артиллерийских кумулятивных снарядов и противотанковых управляемых ракет, в том числе срабатывающих при пролете над танком.

    На DEFEXPO-2014 будет представлена новая конфигурация КАЗ, которая позволяет размещать комплекс "Арена-Э" практически на любой машине. Она отличается от КАЗ предыдущей конфигурации тем, что бортовая радиолокационная станция разнесена на несколько блоков и размещена таким образом, что не мешает танку выполнять другие боевые задачи. КАЗ "Арена-Э" в новой конфигурации может быть установлен на танках Т-72, Т-72Б, Т-90 и на других образцах бронетехники.


    On the other side this choice very likely mean that the new generation of active protection systems now developed for perspective unified platforms of the "Kurganet" and "Armata" family will be not offered in an export model ,on the international market for a long time.





    Was this version of Arena-E shown on DEFEXPO-2014?

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    Re: The New Arena-E active protection system

    Post  GarryB on Tue Mar 04, 2014 9:27 am

    Yes.

    It is a forum rule that new members post an introduction thread in the introduction and rules thread. Too late now for you... you don't need to delete this post, but please take the time to read the rules and post an introduction in the relevant section.


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    Re: The New Arena-E active protection system

    Post  acatomic on Wed Mar 05, 2014 3:07 pm

    Are there any photos from DEFEXPO-2014 of Arena-E? I've been looking everywhere and I just can't find any.

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    Re: The New Arena-E active protection system

    Post  GarryB on Thu Mar 06, 2014 3:56 am

    https://engineeringrussia.wordpress.com/2014/02/11/arena-is-universal-armor/


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    Re: The New Arena-E active protection system

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sun Oct 12, 2014 2:41 am

    Arena-E for T-72:


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    BTR 82A and modernized T72 Delivered Year to Date

    Post  calripson on Sun Oct 12, 2014 5:23 pm

    Russian MOD has stated that 233 BTR 82A and 143 modernized T72 have been delivered so far in 2014. Do the modernized T72 have Arena ?


    http://www.vedomosti.ru/politics/news/34571371/generaly-nazvali-kolichestvo-postupivshego-v-rossijskuyu

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    Re: The New Arena-E active protection system

    Post  Asf on Mon Oct 13, 2014 9:35 am

    Most likely no. Never saw a tank with Arena in the actual forces

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    Re: The New Arena-E active protection system

    Post  GarryB on Tue Oct 14, 2014 4:42 am

    There is a new version of Arena that has a much lower profile and I suspect rather better performance... the key will be price... the original was not cheap.

    The upgraded T-72s are largely a stopgap measure that will have new all weather and night capable optics (ie thermals) and all the new bits and pieces that will allow useful day night and all weather training. It will also have new communications and battle field management systems that allow commands to be datalinked to each vehicle.

    Other than that it will likely include the new gun and autoloader.


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    Re: The New Arena-E active protection system

    Post  acatomic on Sun Oct 19, 2014 8:57 pm

    What do you think, could Arena be mounted on the hull of BMPT-72?

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    Re: The New Arena-E active protection system

    Post  Mike E on Sun Oct 19, 2014 9:12 pm

    acatomic wrote:What do you think, could Arena be mounted on the hull of BMPT-72?
    Probably, they could build a mount for it with ease. Can it right now? - I'm not sure.

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    Re: The New Arena-E active protection system

    Post  GarryB on Mon Oct 20, 2014 10:55 am

    Easily.

    It is designed to be added to an existing tank design so pretty much any tank not already fitted with APS can have ARENA-2 attached to it.


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    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

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    Re: The New Arena-E active protection system

    Post  acatomic on Sun Dec 28, 2014 6:21 pm

    GarryB wrote:Easily.

    It is designed to be added to an existing tank design so pretty much any tank not already fitted with APS can have ARENA-2 attached to it.

    I was asking because I'm corious if intercept plate arrangement (one plate would have to give 90 degrees coverage) on a hull of BMPT would be enough to give full 360 protection.

    New video:


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    Re: The New Arena-E active protection system

    Post  GarryB on Mon Dec 29, 2014 9:43 am

    From that new video there are four plates in each side piece with two firing forward and two firing sideways suggesting the bins at the rear likely fire backwards meaning a total of about 12 munitions with four covering the front, two to each of the sides leaving a suspected four to the rear.

    They should each cover about 90 degrees but are launched up and direct their fragments down and forward into the ground so it is much safer for friendly infantry to operate nearby.

    I rather suspect a system for a BMPT could use hull mounted munitions and sensors as well as turret mounted munitions and sensors....


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    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

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    Re: The New Arena-E active protection system

    Post  George1 on Sat Apr 04, 2015 1:42 pm

    Enhanced active protection "Arena" is marketed under the batch program of modernization of the T-72

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    Re: The New Arena-E active protection system

    Post  Cyberspec on Sat Apr 04, 2015 11:10 pm

    George1 wrote:Enhanced active protection "Arena" is marketed under the batch program of modernization of the T-72

    So it might be mounted on upgraded Indian Army T-72's and it will be demonstrated during this years Nizhny Tagil exhibition

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