Akula leased Nuclear Submarine: News

The Indian news agencies are reporting that the lease of a 2nd Russian nuclear submarine to India may be delayed .

Under the deal , India was supposed to pay a little over $ 1 billion for the lease .

While no official reason has been provided by the Government of India , sources close to Government claim that both the Russian & the Indian Government are concerned by the mysterious deaths of several Indian scientists working on the nuclear submarine programs .

http://www.sunday-guardian.com/news/pmo-unconcerned-about-scientist-deaths#.Um6b_vMxC5A.twitter


http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Nuclear-submarine-engineer-found-dead-on-railway-tracks-in-Visakhapatnam/articleshow/23619269.cms?intenttarget=no

What? like the Indian nuclear sub program going on in India? Specialists are turning up dead?

If this was Pakistan, they would be blaming Mossad.

And being that this is India, they should clearly be blaming Pakistan.

SOC wrote:And being that this is India, they should clearly be blaming Pakistan.  

Or China.

The world is a funny place. But this is quite disturbing if true.

Or both...

Hell it could be the Americans... Iran... India... same thing right?

...now where is the nearest Chinese embassy?  

GarryB wrote:Hell it could be the Americans... Iran... India... same thing right?

No, it'd only be us if we figured out how to make hacked mobile phones blow up next to their heads.

GarryB wrote:...now where is the nearest Chinese embassy?   

Why? Did an F-22 get shot down over India?

the work of 2nd nuke sub is going quite well the ins arindam may be the name that news report is bogus 3 scitists r dead thet not mean whole prog in jeopardy they look for sensational news total crap..the 2nd nuke sub of leasing yes its true as sindhurakshak is gone so navy need a replacement ..so they noe want a nuuke instance of a conventional one:)   

f-insas wrote: that news report is bogus 3 scitists r dead  

Do you see the contradictions between the 1st & 2nd part of your statement . If this news is bogus , then 3 engineers cannot be dead . And if these 3 engineers are dead then this news is not bogus . FYI - The news is true . Indian Railways themselves had informed the local police when they found the dead bodies . BTW - 2 dead bodies not 3 .

http://www.railnews.co.in/?p=18345

f-insas wrote:thet not mean whole prog in jeopardy

No one is saying that . This article says this appears to be a case of sabotage .

f-insas wrote:they look for sensational news total crap..

Media the world over look for sensational news . But please prove that this news is "crap" .  

f-insas wrote:the 2nd nuke sub of leasing yes its true as sindhurakshak is gone so navy need a replacement ..so they noe want a nuuke instance of a conventional one:)   

FAIL . First , Sindhurakshak was a Kilo class conventional submarine . Talks for securing a 2nd nuclear submarine from Russia had started well before the Sindhurakshak accident . As per the agreement India had with Russia there is a "Warranty Clause". India could have asked for a replacement similar to the Sindhurakshak , i.e another Kilo class submarine . But India did not press for the warranty clause because there are legal hurdles .

http://www.firstpost.com/politics/ins-sindhurakshak-why-india-wont-invoke-the-warranty-clause-with-russia-1185111.html


Bottomline  - The Engineers working on the nuclear submarine were killed with a purpose . The Scientists working on nuclear power plants were killed with a purpose . The whole idea behind such assassinations is to slow down the process .

Several Scientists working at the Bhabha Atomic Research Centre (BARC) have met with un natural deaths in the last 5 years . Till date their deaths have not been explained . Though the FIR filed in most cases do state that they were Murdered.

If such killings continue un abated suffice to say that India's nuclear program is going to suffer . And suffer big time.

Is it a billion worth contract?

India's naval forces have made a decision to lease another Russian nuclear submarine, the Times of India daily reports on Wednesday. The submarine in question is the Project-971 Shchuka-B (NATO reporting name Akula) armed with cruise missiles.

The first Project-971 submarine, the Nerpa, was leased from Russia for 10 years. It was commissioned in the Indian naval forces in 2012 and got the name of the Chakra.

According to the newspaper, India is also going to manufacture three nuclear submarines itself. Currently, there are 13 submarines in the Indian navy, but only half of them are in operational readiness.

http://in.rbth.com/news/2014/12/17/india_to_lease_second_russian_nuclear_submarine_media_40383.html

Russians have also helped in the development and design of Arihant specially in the design of nuclear reactor. This is great help for the Indian navy specially when fleet of conventional submarines is dismally low

India is in final talks with Russia to lease a new nuclear attack submarine, giving a much needed boost to its depleting underwater fleet. Signaling a difference in approach by the Modi-led government, India is now looking to lease a newly built, customised submarine, unlike in the past when older vessels were refurbished and handed over.

Several sources related to the project that ET spoke with confirmed that talks on leasing a new submarine under the ‘Chakra 3′ project are in advanced stages and that the issue will be discussed during Prime Minister Modi’s visit to Russia this week.

India has the ‘Chakra 2′ Akula class nuclear submarine in service that is considered to be one of the deadliest non-US attack boats in the world. This submarine – a refurbished Soviet era boat – has been taken on a 10-year lease from Russia in 2012. ‘Chakra 1′, India’s first nuclear submarine, was taken on a similar lease in the late 1980s.

While talks on leasing a third Chakra have been on for over two years, a change of stand has taken place after the Modi government took over, with the Indian side insisting on a modern, world-class submarine on lease. The only nuclear attack submarine of this kind being produced in Russia currently is the Yasen class, the quietest, least detectable submarine it has ever built.

It is still not clear, however, whether the final contract would specify a Yasen submarine or a modified boat of the same class to suit Indian requirements. “The final shape is yet to be decided, but it is now almost certain that a ‘greenfield’ submarine will be built,” a source associated with the programme told ET.

What is clear is that India is embarking on a project to produce indigenous class of nuclear attack boats (SSNs) under new submarine programme. The plan, to build at least six SSNs in India, was given financial sanction in February and designers are already at work on the project that could cost upwards of Rs 90,000 crore.

These new submarines, to be fitted with the indigenous verticallylaunched Brahmos missile, are to be built at the Vizag-based ship building centre, with L&T expected to get a significant chunk of the work.

Work on making operational India’s first nuclear missile boat – different from a nuclear attack submarine is also underway with the first missile test from the submarine expected to take place this year.


http://idrw.org/india-in-talks-with-russia-to-lease-new-nuclear-attack-submarine/

George1 wrote:I don't agree with that. Doesn't Russia need new SSNs that lends them?

Media: India and Russia are discussing the rent of newest submarines such as "Yasen"

IIRC, just one Yasen class submarine is in operation with the Russian Navy. How can that be given on lease?

any info on what is the "rent" for the 10 years compared to sale price ?

whats the lifecycle (without major renovations) for such subs? cannot be much more than 15 years?

Prince Darling wrote:any info on what is the "rent" for the 10 years compared to sale price ?

NPT prohibits the sale of nuclear sub so there is no selling price for a nuclear sub in the international market. Based on past figures Russia charged India $1.5 billion for a 10 year lease of the Akula class sub.

If a lease of a Yasen class goes through(which it won't) I suspect it will be around $2.5 - $3 billion for a 10 year lease because the Yasen is a generation ahead of the Akula.

Prince Darling wrote:whats the lifecycle (without major renovations) for such subs? cannot be much more than 15 years?

Soviet nuclear subs did not require major renovations. They are designed from the outset to last for decades. Design enhancement however takes place by way of full cycle dockings.

Once a Russian sub arrives at the yard the first order of business is called condition-based maintenance. That includes work on items such as pumps or brakes, which, because of acoustic and vibration levels deep under water, tend to wear out more quickly. If, for example, a pump has become noisier while operating, it must be replaced.

The Russian Navy carries out a maintenance effectiveness review throughout the year.

Costs vary according to what subsystems need to be replaced, such as weapon systems, sonar devices or towed arrays. Generally speaking the cost for refueling and overhaul of one submarine in a Russian yard is around $120 - 150 million.

Russia could offer to build its latest nuclear submarine, possibly the multi-purpose ‘Yasen’ class sub suitably modified for India, analyst Zachary Keck wrote in an article for The National Interest.


A modified ‘Yasen’ class submarine, Russia’s latest nuclear sub, could be built specially for India, a report in the Indian ‘Economic Times’ newspaper suggested. The ET was quoting the analyst Zachary Keck who, in an article in ‘The National Interest,’ said it was possible that the new submarine would be one of the multi-purpose ‘Yasen’ class submarines, equipped with cruise missiles, or a modification of the Yasen.

According to Keck, the ET report states, India has been interested in leasing a multi-purpose attack submarine for quite a long while. This time, the Russian government has taken this interest on board and is developing a separate submarine for India.

"The final details are yet to be discussed, but at present it has been practically decided that a completely new submarine will be built", the ET quotes Keck as saying, while citing an anonymous source familiar with details of the project.

According to the article’s author, the ‘Yasen’ class submarine, if decided upon, will be a significant addition to India’s reduced submarine fleet.

"The Yasen class submarine is one of the most promising in the world. According to information available, the submarine crew comprises 90 people, and is designed to have a high degree of automation. Equipped with a new generation atomic reactor, the submarine can reach a maximum speed of 40 knots and, in silent mode, is capable of 20 knots”, said Kyle Mizokami in an interview with Keck.

The Yasen class submarine is equipped with eight vertical missile silos, four 650 mm torpedo tubes and four 533 mm torpedo tubes. The Yasen is also likely to be armed with the high speed underwater ‘Shkval’ torpedo, which has a radius of seven to thirteen km and a speed of up to 200 knots.

http://in.rbth.com/economics/2015/07/13/russia_offers_india_a_super_submarine_44197.html

"An agreement on leasing another Russian nuclear-powered submarine to India is to be signed at the Russian-Indian summit in December, a source at India’s Defense Ministry said. The possibility of leasing a second submarine from Russia will be studied when India’s Defense Minister Manohar Parrikar will visit Moscow next week,” the source said. “Parrikar will hold talks on this strategic project with his Russian counterpart Sergey Shoigu. After the ten-year contract is signed another two or three years will be required for upgrading the submarine in keeping with India’s requirements,” he said. Over the past 45 years Russia and India have established reliable, time-tested strategic ties in the field of defence.



India’s armed forces are equipped with Soviet and Russian military hardware 70%, the source said, adding that Russia had always provided its best military hardware to India. A Russian military source at the Russian embassy in New Delhi has confirmed the negotiations on leasing the Kashalot K-322 nuclear power submarine of project 971 Shchuka had entered the final phase. “If the contract is signed, it will be the third Russia-built submarine handed over to the Indian Navy,” he said. “For the first time India leased a Russian nuclear submarine for ten years back in the early 1980s. In 2012 the Indian Navy leased Russia’s K-152 Nerpa submarine of project 971. This is a customary and well-tested way of cooperation by our countries in the military-technical sphere.” According to the Russian source, the submarine will undergo fundamental upgrade in line with the customer’s requirements at the Amur shipyards, where it is at the moment. The repair, upgrade and testing work and the Indian crew’s training are to be completed by 2018."

Source: http://defence-blog.com/news/russia-to-lease-another-nuclear-sub-to-india-in-december.html

NEW DELHI: Indian plans to lease a cutting edge nuclear attack submarine that would assist in technical knowhow for an indigenous project have run aground with Russia seen to be backing out on the deal. Senior officials in Delhi and Moscow have told ET that plans to lease a Yasen class attack submarine - two of which are in service with the Russian Navy - are being reconsidered after fairly advanced talks on the project.

India was keen on acquitting on lease the latest Russian submarine under a plan that would result in a new boat being constructed from scratch, giving planners and designers in the Navy here a rare peek into the building process of one of the most complex military systems in the world.

By being involved in the process from the beginning, India would have gained expertise for an indigenous project to produce six nuclear powered attack submarines (SSNs) for the Navy under a Rs 100000 crore project that was cleared by the Modi government in February. Talks were at an advanced stage with National Security Advisor Ajit Doval too said to be in the picture.

However, ET has learnt that Russia is reconsidering and has now offered India one of its older Akula class submarines on lease, similar to the Chakra II that is currently in service with the Indian Navy on lease. "The plan now is to lease an attack submarine that is in service with the Russian Navy. This submarine would be deeply modernized to meet Indian requirements," an official familiar with the developments told ET.

This submarine would be modernized at a shipyard in Severodvinsk, the Russian city where the INS Vikramaditya aircraft carrier was refitted as well.

While the Indian Navy has been taken aback with the development, efforts are still on to rescue the Yasen project, with planners said to be against the lease of yet another, older generation nuclear submarine from Russia. "We are hoping for a resolution and there is a possibility that this (the refusal) is a negotiating tactic. We have not closed hopes on the project yet," an Indian official told ET.

The circumstances behind the blockage are unclear, though sources point that the funding required to build a new Yasen class submarine from scratch could be an issue as it mean a considerable contribution by the Indian side. Another issue could be Moscow's observations that Indian planners have been in talks with French and US submarine builders also for possible collaboration on the SSN project for the Navy.

Clarity is expected on the matter during PM Narendra Modi's Moscow visit this week where the lease plan, as well as other military projects are to be discussed in detail. Besides the nuclear submarine, Russia is also keen on selling India two of its advanced Kilo class submarines that are under construction in St Petersburg.

Read more at:
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/50260326.cms?utm_source=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst

New Delhi, Dec. 28: India has been forced to keep on hold a plan to acquire a second nuclear submarine from Russia on lease after talks during Prime Minister Narendra Modi's visit to Moscow last week failed to reach a compromise over new conditions.

Shortly before Modi's departure for Moscow, Russia had linked the Indian request for the submarine to the purchase of other naval platforms, such as three stealth frigates and two deep submergence rescue vessels (also called submarine rescue vessels), one of which was to be made in India.

India's navy is unhappy about keeping the acquisition of a second nuclear attack submarine from Russia in abeyance because it upsets a revised plan to shore up its depleted underwater fleet.

Moscow, too, has acknowledged that talks to lease the submarine to India are yet to be conclusive. A Russian official, briefing journalists, said Moscow was still waiting for clarity from New Delhi on proposals involving an Akula-class submarine.

Coincidentally, a senior Indian defence official used similar phrasing - "lack of clarity from the Russian side" - to explain why a submarine deal talked about for three years and given a fillip during Putin's Indian visit last December could not be clinched.

"We keep hearing and reading about India's interest in this submarine but till we have clarity from the Indian side on what is acceptable to them, we can't move ahead," the Russian official told reporters.

When talks began under the Manmohan Singh government in 2013, it was assessed that the contract would be signed by the end of 2015. The Russians would then take three years to retrofit the Akula II-class submarine at their Amur shipyards.

As with the only nuclear submarine in operation with India's navy, also an Akula II-class vessel named the INS Chakra, the Russians were to train a crew for the second boat by the time it was to be deliverable in 2018. That date now seems an impossibility.

Earlier too, Russia had linked military purchases to the sale of a strategic platform - India's flagship aircraft carrier, the INS Vikramaditya. That upset timelines and resulted in huge cost overruns, prompting a navy chief to urge the Centre to cancel the contract.

But India went ahead with the Gorshkov for about $2.4 billion after a decade of negotiations. Gorshkov is now the INS Vikramaditya.

The INS Chakra, originally the K-152 Nerpa, too had been leased by Russia - in 2012 for 10 years for an estimated $900 million. The cost has never been officially confirmed.

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1151229/jsp/nation/story_60931.jsp#.VoLNgCdzx_k

Don't see why it's being linked to other naval purchases. Greed in action. Russia and its arms industry should relax a bit, give some good will - and the orders will come anyway.

flamming_python wrote:Don't see why it's being linked to other naval purchases. Greed in action. Russia and its arms industry should relax a bit, give some good will - and the orders will come anyway.

what i have been saying here since past many months that Indian arms industry will be dominated by Russia for foreseeable future to come and all this will come true in next one year when pending deals are resolved. these news items by indian media must be taken with truck load of salt though

http://www.dailypioneer.com/todays-newspaper/india-in-talks-for-2nd-nuke--sub-lease-russian-envoy.html

In a bid to bolster its Defence and strategic reserves, India is in talks with Russia for buying various military products. Russian Ambassador to India Alexander M Kadakin told The Pioneer that the two sides are actively negotiating on the purchase of S-400 Russian air defence missiles for protection of Indian cities from any possible attacks from outside. Besides, India is negotiating for taking on lease another nuclear submarine from Russia. India is also looking at buying

some more MiG 29K fighters for INS Vikramaditya, India’s largest Naval ship and aircraft carrier, bought from Russia, the envoy said.

Speaking on the eve of Russia’s Diplomats’ Day, Kadakin said India-Russia defence relationship has been on a constant rise over the years. The ambassador added that India-Russia relationship is independent of their relations with other countries, and it remains on a stable and strong footing. “We do not feel jealous when India acquires military hardware from other countries for its strategic needs. India is a superpower in the making and we have worked always with India in military, industry and scientific areas to see it as strong as it is today,” Kadakin said.

“Please name a country that can lease a nuclear submarine,” he added to underline Russia’s partnership with India. India is one of the six countries in the world apart from Russia, the United States of America, China, the United Kingdom and France to deploy nuclear-powered submarines.

This is the first time there has been an official confirmation about lease of second nuke submarine even though speculation is rife about India seeking another one from Russia after the success of INS Chakra, the Akula Class submarine that has been on lease from Russia for ten years. “The hull of the submarine is ready but it has to be refurbished as per Indian needs after the talks are concluded,” Kadakin said on the second nuclear submarine.

INS Chakra was inducted into Indian Navy about four years back. Satisfied with its performance, India is now looking at adding more to its fleet. Already India-made nuke-powered sub INS Arihant is undergoing sea trials. INS Arihant is made with technical support from Russia and India plans to make more such in future.

Kadakin said an agreement is also being worked out for making spare parts of Sukhoi aircraft in India. Besides, Russia will soon open at least four service centres in India for the Su-30 MKI jets to help resolve the maintenance issues of the plane. As of now Hindustan Aeronautic Limited (HAL) runs the only overhauling facility for the Sukhois in India. India has about 200 Su-30 MKI jets. Kadakin said an agreement for service centre is being finalised and will be announced soon.

Interestingly, India’s shopping list has a lot of Make in India component in it. “Our Defence relationship is completely in tune with Make in India Sukhoi spare parts will be made in India. Besides, India and Russia have already concluded a deal for Kamov Ka-226 helicopters. Russia will help India produce 200 of these machines through HAL,” Kadakin said.

Apart from strengthening India’s military capacity, Kadakin said Russia is also working its way with Pakistan to prevent cross border terror attacks on India. “We have tried to influence Pakistan to check trans-border terrorism and have spent a lot of energy in directing its efforts in the right direction. We want Pakistan to play much more proactive role in fighting terrorism,” Kadakin said.

Allaying Indian concerns on Russia selling four Mi-35 attack helicopters to Pakistan, Kadakin said Russia will not do even “one milimetre of action” that is detrimental to its “old and strategic partnership” with India. “There should be no worries for India. India has received 151 of Mi-17 helicopters and will be producing several more,” the envoy said.

Now is seems Russian lobby is active in ministry of defense and Indian govt, this step was long due

Kadakin said India-Russia defence relationship has been on a constant rise over the years.


India, Russia are negotiating buying S-400 air defence missiles, Russian Ambassador to India Alexander Kadakin told The Pioneer. Besides, India may take on lease another nuclear submarine from Russia, he said.

This is the first time there has been an official confirmation about lease of second nuke submarine.

According to envoy, some more MiG 29K fighters for INS Vikramaditya may be purchased.

Kadakin said India-Russia defence relationship has been on a constant rise over the years. It is independent of their relations with other countries, and it remains on a stable and strong footing.

“We do not feel jealous when India acquires military hardware from other countries for its strategic needs. India is a superpower in the making and we have worked always with India in military, industry and scientific areas to see it as strong as it is today,” Kadakin was quoted as saying.

https://in.rbth.com/news/2016/02/12/india-may-lease-second-nuclear-submarine-purchase-s-400-russian-envoy_567199