Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    2S35 Koalitsiya-SV 152mm

    Share

    Peŕrier

    Posts : 288
    Points : 288
    Join date : 2017-10-15

    Re: 2S35 Koalitsiya-SV 152mm

    Post  Peŕrier on Tue Oct 24, 2017 11:05 pm

    The-thing-next-door wrote:
    Isos wrote:
    The-thing-next-door wrote:1 vehicle with 2 guns is a lot cheaper than 2 vehicle with 1 gun but I was talking about naval aplication in withc you do not have spave for more than 1 turret anymore so more  guns on the 1 turret is a good solution and dont try and tell me that 2 normal cruisers is cheaper than 1 with a bigger turret.

    as for autoloaders ships will not need APFSDS,HEAT and HE they just need HE so you do not need to change ammo while feeding and even if you did you would not remove the round from the chamber you would fire it and the next one would be the new type.

    If you mean buying 1 vehicle with 2 turrets instead of 2 with 1 turrets that's strategicaly stupid because if you lose 1 of them you have like 2 vehicles lost.

    That's a similar situation with western countries replacing 4 fighter/bombers/interceptors by just 1 multirole fighter. Instead of buying 400 planes of all sort they buy just 100. It's more difficult to sustain big operations like that.

    Technology is not so superior to to a numerical advantage specially if the enemy can destroy your costly new generation fighter or vehicles by missile like ATGM or Iskanders on the ground or in ambushes.

    My point is that 1 vehicle with 2 guns gives you the same firepower as 2 vehicles with 1 gun but costs less than 2 vehicles.

    I wonder if there will be a 180/203mm variant of the koalitsiya?

    Single gun artillery is perfectly acceptable for land warfare but simply will not fit the fire rate requirments for naval aplications you cant simply have more turrets on a ship to solve the problem .

    Sorry, but I cannot see why a naval application should require greater rate of fire.

    Usually in the past, numbers of guns were relevant because 90% or more shells would simply fell on water, far away from their intended targets, and single rate of fire was quite low.

    Today a radar assisted 130mm gun could easily fire 4 to 5 shells within 10 seconds, having around 50% on target on a moving target, more up to 100% on a stationary target.

    What a faster rate of fire should accomplish? Killing two times in a row the same poor guys or disabling two times the same ship?

    I think it is of far greater importance to expand the scope of artillery emplyment, i.e. developing intelligent munitions to cope with dispersed targets, highly mobile ones, hardened ones and so on.

    By the way, for very specific application in naval warfare, it could be of interest to develop automated large caliber artillery as old 175/203 mm, instead of exotic multiple barrels medium caliber guns.
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 18409
    Points : 18967
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: 2S35 Koalitsiya-SV 152mm

    Post  GarryB on Wed Oct 25, 2017 9:02 am

    I am hoping the 152mm guns are being developed for Destroyer sized vessels and that for larger vessels including landing vessels they might have a 203mm gun system.

    With variable propellant charges and multi angle fire you could launch about 5-6 shells at a target to all land at nearly the same time with one gun barrel, which should be plenty.

    Having two guns on the naval platform is only because that was how it was developed... why change it if you don't have to.

    For the land based gun they had to to get it to fit in aircraft and in rail cars and under rail bridges and tunnels.
    avatar
    George1

    Posts : 12042
    Points : 12525
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Re: 2S35 Koalitsiya-SV 152mm

    Post  George1 on Fri Nov 24, 2017 11:48 pm

    As preliminary tests near completion - https://twitter.com/Russian_Defence/status/917359581914857473 … - a trial batch of Koalitsiya-SV self-propelled howitzers is being readied for the official state trials, which should commence in the "near future".

    https://function.mil.ru/news_page/country/more.htm?id=12152247@egNews
    avatar
    Cyberspec

    Posts : 2344
    Points : 2501
    Join date : 2011-08-08
    Location : Terra Australis

    Re: 2S35 Koalitsiya-SV 152mm

    Post  Cyberspec on Sun Nov 26, 2017 9:31 am

    Interesting...so there's going to be a wheeled version or is this just part of the trials
    avatar
    George1

    Posts : 12042
    Points : 12525
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Re: 2S35 Koalitsiya-SV 152mm

    Post  George1 on Sun Nov 26, 2017 8:26 pm

    Cyberspec wrote:Interesting...so there's going to be a wheeled version or is this just part of the trials

    The picture was taken during a demonstration at a training ground in the Nizhny Novgorod region (Mulino?) In August 2017.

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/2971690.html
    avatar
    franco

    Posts : 3029
    Points : 3061
    Join date : 2010-08-18

    Re: 2S35 Koalitsiya-SV 152mm

    Post  franco on Mon Nov 27, 2017 12:53 am

    Cyberspec wrote:Interesting...so there's going to be a wheeled version or is this just part of the trials

    Had heard of a wheeled version for Coastal artillery to replace the Bereg, but this looks like it would have other uses also.
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 18409
    Points : 18967
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: 2S35 Koalitsiya-SV 152mm

    Post  GarryB on Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:59 pm

    Tracked models have good mobility across rough country but are not usually that fast.

    Wheeled models can move long distances relatively quickly on a good road... and are cheaper to operate and maintain.
    avatar
    The-thing-next-door

    Posts : 472
    Points : 504
    Join date : 2017-09-18
    Location : Soviet Interdimentional Command

    Re: 2S35 Koalitsiya-SV 152mm

    Post  The-thing-next-door on Wed Nov 29, 2017 3:01 pm

    I have heard "the kaolitsiya is going to replace the MSTA" but that makes no sense as the MSTA is still way better than a lousy m109 and disposing of the Akatsiya is a waste of time.

    Russia should build up its artillery so it can rapidly level cities if needed.
    avatar
    KomissarBojanchev

    Posts : 1445
    Points : 1606
    Join date : 2012-08-05
    Age : 20
    Location : Varna, Bulgaria

    Re: 2S35 Koalitsiya-SV 152mm

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:09 pm

    When can we expect the Coalitsiya tracked platform to enter service. Also are there any specifications for the new guided round?

    Anyway its funny that now that this SPG is built, western fanboys have gotten a lot quiter in discussing artillery. Before that they were blathering all day about the PzH2000 and that one korean howitzer.

    Also it should be mentioned that when westerners make a NATO vs Russia or USSR military comparison they barely mention artillery in their calculations.
    avatar
    PapaDragon

    Posts : 7122
    Points : 7216
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Re: 2S35 Koalitsiya-SV 152mm

    Post  PapaDragon on Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:31 pm

    KomissarBojanchev wrote:When can we expect the Coalitsiya tracked platform to enter service. Also are there any specifications for the new guided round?.............

    Pretty much any day now, of all the projects that one has been fastest by far
    avatar
    Militarov

    Posts : 5952
    Points : 5979
    Join date : 2015-09-02
    Location : Serbia

    Re: 2S35 Koalitsiya-SV 152mm

    Post  Militarov on Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:31 am

    The-thing-next-door wrote:I have heard "the kaolitsiya is going to replace the MSTA" but that makes no sense as the MSTA is still way better than a lousy m109 and disposing of the Akatsiya is a waste of time.

    Russia should build up its artillery so it can rapidly level cities if needed.

    Coalition will replace MSTA on a long run, short term no.

    M109A7 is quite good actually, tho i am in general not fan of M109s as baseline design at all.
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 18409
    Points : 18967
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: 2S35 Koalitsiya-SV 152mm

    Post  GarryB on Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:43 am

    The tracked Coalition will likely replace 2S3 Acacias first and likely MSTA last if at all.

    The 2S3 has a gun range of about 18km while MSTA shoots to about 24-28km from memory.

    Coalition is supposed to be able to reach 70km with standard ammo with a CEP of 10m in all weathers day and night.

    AFAIK the standard ammo has a guidance package attached that is part of the fuse that includes a GLONASS module and fins to control flight.

    avatar
    KomissarBojanchev

    Posts : 1445
    Points : 1606
    Join date : 2012-08-05
    Age : 20
    Location : Varna, Bulgaria

    Re: 2S35 Koalitsiya-SV 152mm

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Thu Nov 30, 2017 3:24 am

    GarryB wrote:The tracked  Coalition will likely replace 2S3 Acacias first and likely MSTA last if at all.

    The 2S3 has a gun range of about 18km while MSTA shoots to about 24-28km from memory.

    Coalition is supposed to be able to reach 70km with standard ammo with a CEP of 10m in all weathers day and night.

    AFAIK the standard ammo has a guidance package attached that is part of the fuse that includes a GLONASS module and fins to control flight.

    So the Kolatsiya will be the world's first SPG that carries guided ammo by default?

    What about guided HEAT shells that could individually hit tanks?
    avatar
    Militarov

    Posts : 5952
    Points : 5979
    Join date : 2015-09-02
    Location : Serbia

    Re: 2S35 Koalitsiya-SV 152mm

    Post  Militarov on Thu Nov 30, 2017 3:37 am

    KomissarBojanchev wrote:
    GarryB wrote:The tracked  Coalition will likely replace 2S3 Acacias first and likely MSTA last if at all.

    The 2S3 has a gun range of about 18km while MSTA shoots to about 24-28km from memory.

    Coalition is supposed to be able to reach 70km with standard ammo with a CEP of 10m in all weathers day and night.

    AFAIK the standard ammo has a guidance package attached that is part of the fuse that includes a GLONASS module and fins to control flight.

    So the Kolatsiya will be the world's first SPG that carries guided ammo by default?

    What about guided HEAT shells that could individually hit tanks?

    I wouldnt go that far and say it will be carried by default. Also 70km range is supposed to be with new shells that have gas generator, range with baseline ammunition is supposed to be about 40km.

    More likely OF45 and similar shells will be used in decades to come still, as they are cheap and still exist in fairly big quantities.

    HEAT in indirect fire would be quite weird, and guidance kits are not that precise to hit a tank on 60km range especially not GPS/Glonass guided variants. Standard HE rounds are more than enough to deal with tanks, as long as they fall near enough Smile
    avatar
    The-thing-next-door

    Posts : 472
    Points : 504
    Join date : 2017-09-18
    Location : Soviet Interdimentional Command

    Re: 2S35 Koalitsiya-SV 152mm

    Post  The-thing-next-door on Thu Nov 30, 2017 7:24 am

    Militarov wrote:
    The-thing-next-door wrote:I have heard "the kaolitsiya is going to replace the MSTA" but that makes no sense as the MSTA is still way better than a lousy m109 and disposing of the Akatsiya is a waste of time.

    Russia should build up its artillery so it can rapidly level cities if needed.

    Coalition will replace MSTA on a long run, short term no.  

    M109A7 is quite good actually, tho i am in general not fan of M109s as baseline design at all.

    Seems good to me no like crew will suffocate when the gun breach opens. It has a fume extractor right.



    Anyway I agree with Gary the MSTA is probably going to go when all the Akatsiyas are gone and this will most likely only be in the 2040s at the earliest.
    avatar
    PapaDragon

    Posts : 7122
    Points : 7216
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Re: 2S35 Koalitsiya-SV 152mm

    Post  PapaDragon on Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:30 pm


    Some new boxes on the turret:

    avatar
    Militarov

    Posts : 5952
    Points : 5979
    Join date : 2015-09-02
    Location : Serbia

    Re: 2S35 Koalitsiya-SV 152mm

    Post  Militarov on Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:57 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Some new boxes on the turret:


    I suppose radar measuring shell speed to enhance use of fuses.
    avatar
    George1

    Posts : 12042
    Points : 12525
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Re: 2S35 Koalitsiya-SV 152mm

    Post  George1 on Sat Aug 25, 2018 3:40 pm

    Russia’s latest Koalitsiya-SV howitzer as first step to robotize ground forces’ hardware

    The state trials of the Koalitsiya-SV artillery guns are expected to be concluded in 2020

    KUBINKA /Moscow Region/, August 25. /TASS/.Russia’s latest Koalitsiya-SV self-propelled howitzers are the first step towards robotizing the ground forces’ military hardware, Missile and Artillery Chief Lieutenant-General Mikhail Matveyevsky said at the Army-2018 forum on Saturday.

    "The Koalitsiya-SV multi-service force artillery system features our first step to introducing robotics in practice. It has an unmanned combat compartment and the process of loading and preparing for fire excludes any operations by an individual: everything is done automatically," the general said.

    Then-Deputy Defense Minister Yuri Borisov said earlier that the state trials of the Koalitsiya-SV artillery guns were expected to be concluded in 2020.


    More:
    http://tass.com/defense/1018643

    Sponsored content

    Re: 2S35 Koalitsiya-SV 152mm

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Mon Oct 22, 2018 1:12 pm