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    2S35 Koalitsiya-SV 152mm

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    hoom

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    Re: 2S35 Koalitsiya-SV 152mm

    Post  hoom on Sat Dec 15, 2018 2:31 pm

    Well yeah I guess if its light enough for a Mi-17 that'd be worthy, MSTA-B is 7ton so that would be a pretty huge weight saving.

    For anything else there will be the tracked and (heavy) wheeled versions.
    Which will be considerably more costly/lower in number & more of a problem to lose.
    Cheap & cheerful light truck version can get really high mobility at pretty low cost.
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    Re: 2S35 Koalitsiya-SV 152mm

    Post  Hole on Sat Dec 15, 2018 6:40 pm



    This is exactly like the systems in your pics. It has just greater range, more ammo and at least the same level of mobility.

    For low level combats there are/will be this systems:


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    Re: 2S35 Koalitsiya-SV 152mm

    Post  Hole on Sat Dec 15, 2018 6:42 pm

    Plus


    magnumcromagnon
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    Re: 2S35 Koalitsiya-SV 152mm

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sat Dec 15, 2018 8:03 pm

    flamming_python wrote:
    hoom wrote:Personally I'd rather they develop a light truck mount.

    Something like this

    or

    is not much heavier than a conventional mount but able to shoot & scoot much more rapidly.

    The whole point is that you can sling it with a Mi-17 or something up an elevation. Invaluable for mountain brigades and divisions.

    Or attach it to some trucks or tracked vehicles, or even horses - and tow it to somewhere less accessible for heavier, self-propelled artillery vehicles

    From the description it sounds like an analogue of the US M777

    Given that the max load for a Mi-17 sling is 4.5 tons; they'll have to make sure that this Koalitsiya towed-gun weighs no more than that. Probably a good bit less actually; if they want to carry it into higher altitudes as well as the crew and supporting equipment in the same chopper.

    They can just fly the main gun, a crank-jack on wheels, and the ammo with a trailer separately.
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    Re: 2S35 Koalitsiya-SV 152mm

    Post  hoom on Sun Dec 16, 2018 5:53 am

    This is exactly like the systems in your pics. It has just greater range, more ammo and at least the same level of mobility.
    Well yeah it is actually lighter than I was remembering.
    The turret & jacks for 360deg (?!) firing makes it quite a bit more expensive & heavier than it could be.
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    Re: 2S35 Koalitsiya-SV 152mm

    Post  GarryB on Sun Dec 16, 2018 9:45 am

    Personally I'd rather they develop a light truck mount.

    It will be their standard 152mm gun artillery vehicle, so there will be an Armata version, and a Kurganets version and a Boomerang version...

    They will need a towed model for places trucks and light vehicles cannot go.

    is not much heavier than a conventional mount but able to shoot & scoot much more rapidly.

    An armoured vehicle would be able to shoot and scoot better than any towed model... half way up a mountain firing from mountain top to mountain side 10-20km away is what it will be used for, so moving rapidly after firing is unlikely... it will normally be near a base it is defending...

    If they want mobile fire power.... Ka-52 with Hermes missiles...

    Given that the max load for a Mi-17 sling is 4.5 tons; they'll have to make sure that this Koalitsiya towed-gun weighs no more than that. Probably a good bit less actually; if they want to carry it into higher altitudes as well as the crew and supporting equipment in the same chopper.

    The Mi-38 is supposed to manage 6 or 7 tons I think with an external sling...

    Either way you will need another helo for ammo and crew anyway... and some light vehicle to move it around if needed.


    Which will be considerably more costly/lower in number & more of a problem to lose.
    Cheap & cheerful light truck version can get really high mobility at pretty low cost.

    If it is operating in an armata division it makes sense for it to be armata based etc etc.

    This is exactly like the systems in your pics. It has just greater range, more ammo and at least the same level of mobility.

    True, but the article we are talking about is a towed model...

    They can just fly the main gun, a crank-jack on wheels, and the ammo with a trailer separately.

    Weapons of this size means more than one helo will be needed unless you go for Mi-26s... and even then it makes sense to split the load into gun, ammo and crew, and towing vehicle to allow the weapon to be moved around easily.
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    Re: 2S35 Koalitsiya-SV 152mm

    Post  hoom on Wed Jan 02, 2019 1:30 pm

    Gur Khan take on the new gun https://zen.yandex.ru/media/id/5c154835b2d87b00acb731f7/d400--novaia-buksiruemaia-pushkagaubica-dlia-rossiiskoi-armii-5c17e7f1ca54dd00abe7c0c4?from=channel&fbclid=IwAR3gc14x1-0GOlQYtVyHx4ySBCg_XtKB0mP8vaCjQhG62EHQzw8NS1iPhns

    Basically he has same complaints as me: gotta maximise the ability to shoot & scoot in a modern combat environment, from the pics its not obviously light enough for lifting by Mi-8.
    Also wonders about how the loading is going to work since the main key to Koalition is auto-loader with modular propellant.

    Pics of test gun


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    Re: 2S35 Koalitsiya-SV 152mm

    Post  GarryB on Wed Jan 02, 2019 11:05 pm

    It would be rather easy to manually load such a weapon... just do it the same as any manually loaded gun.

    Regarding the propellent... propellant bags are the traditional solution... after ramming the projectile in you load the propellant bags... calculated when you process the target data, so the number of individual propellant bags loaded is determined and then loaded into the gun manually...


    I would suspect most of the units that use this weapon wont be airborne... they are more likely to be mountain units operating where standard armoured vehicles are not much use... such a long range powerful weapon might not be totally ideal for such a role... traditionally the mountain gun has a short barrel and a big HE round so if you see the enemy 5-8km away across a valley you can shoot a big HE round at him... you are not likely to be firing at targets 40km away... unless you are part of some sort of fire base set up like the US used in Vietnam...

    I would think a D-30 type lighter gun would be more valuable even if shorter ranged... the new 152mm gun on the D-30 mount would be interesting... but it wasn't the new new 152mm gun, it was a shortish range (15km) weapon with a bigger heavier projectile than the D-30 it was to replace...
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    Re: 2S35 Koalitsiya-SV 152mm

    Post  hoom on Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:05 am

    Regarding the propellent... propellant bags are the traditional solution... after ramming the projectile in you load the propellant bags... calculated when you process the target data, so the number of individual propellant bags loaded is determined and then loaded into the gun manually...
    His point being the major advantage of Koalition being the RoF from autoloader will be lost doing that.
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    Re: 2S35 Koalitsiya-SV 152mm

    Post  GarryB on Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:07 am

    Rate of fire has never been a critical factor for towed artillery as far as I am aware... except for AA artillery of course...
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    Re: 2S35 Koalitsiya-SV 152mm

    Post  dino00 on Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:44 pm

    "Coalition-SV" on trial set a record for range

    New interspecific artillery complex "Coalition-SV" during the tests confirmed the possibility of firing at a greater range. This was reported by Interfax,  citing an informed source.

    Goals can be hit at ranges up to 80 km,” he said.

    https://tvzvezda.ru/news/opk/content/201901031335-8ca1.htm
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    Re: 2S35 Koalitsiya-SV 152mm

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:56 pm

    dino00 wrote:"Coalition-SV" on trial set a record for range

    New interspecific artillery complex "Coalition-SV" during the tests confirmed the possibility of firing at a greater range. This was reported by Interfax,  citing an informed source.

    Goals can be hit at ranges up to 80 km,” he said.

    https://tvzvezda.ru/news/opk/content/201901031335-8ca1.htm



    let me guess those ramjet ammo is going into series russia russia russia





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    Re: 2S35 Koalitsiya-SV 152mm

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Thu Jan 03, 2019 2:56 pm

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    dino00 wrote:"Coalition-SV" on trial set a record for range

    New interspecific artillery complex "Coalition-SV" during the tests confirmed the possibility of firing at a greater range. This was reported by Interfax,  citing an informed source.

    Goals can be hit at ranges up to 80 km,” he said.

    https://tvzvezda.ru/news/opk/content/201901031335-8ca1.htm



    let me guess those ramjet ammo is going into series russia russia russia






    That was probably with standard ammo. The Federation has already developed ramjet technology with shells, however this was most likely done with a standard shell aided by Koalitsya's new gun tech. Brand new barrel and rifling, but more importantly microwave ignition for doubling the range of shells from Msta-B to Koalitsya. Standard ignition of the propellant is at a hypersonic speed (roughly Mach 5-6) which seems fast to us humans, but in reality isn't fast enough to ignite the propellant completely, cleanly and uniformly, which leaves a uneven ignition of propellant thus a subsequent loss of range. However microwave ignition is different because microwaves are emitted at light-speed, which allows the entirety of propellant to ignite simultaneously, making a much cleaner and uniform ignition thus the subsequent result is greater range of the artillery shell.
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    Re: 2S35 Koalitsiya-SV 152mm

    Post  higurashihougi on Mon Jan 07, 2019 5:14 am

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    That was probably with standard ammo. The Federation has already developed ramjet technology with shells, however this was most likely done with a standard shell aided by Koalitsya's new gun tech. Brand new barrel and rifling, but more importantly microwave ignition for doubling the range of shells from Msta-B to Koalitsya. Standard ignition of the propellant is at a hypersonic speed (roughly Mach 5-6) which seems fast to us humans, but in reality isn't fast enough to ignite the propellant completely, cleanly and uniformly, which leaves a uneven ignition of propellant thus a subsequent loss of range. However microwave ignition is different because microwaves are emitted at light-speed, which allows the entirety of propellant to ignite simultaneously, making a much cleaner and uniform ignition  thus the subsequent result is greater range of the artillery shell.  

    Pls forgive my ignorance and allow me to ask this question, I thought slow ignition is more preferable for propellant, since it allow the pressure to be slowly released and gradually increased, which reduce the risk and damage for the gun barrel. People change from black powder to brown powder and to Nobel powder just for the powder to burn slowly, isn't it Question
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    Re: 2S35 Koalitsiya-SV 152mm

    Post  JohninMK on Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:59 pm

    A new photo of the wheeled version of the 2S35 Koalitsiya-SV, the 2S35-1 Koalitsiya-SV-KSh on a 6x6 KAMAZ-6560 chassis, was published. https://grau.informost.ru/2018/pdf/part1/20.pdf?fbclid=IwAR2oLt9ESnmbuxPpMehMZxGf8iEYwPfrbsYYOq6q0fhYXt8gCp9u77Zj_0U …

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    Re: 2S35 Koalitsiya-SV 152mm

    Post  PapaDragon on Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:08 pm

    JohninMK wrote:A new photo of the wheeled version of the 2S35 Koalitsiya-SV, the 2S35-1 Koalitsiya-SV-KSh on a 6x6 KAMAZ-6560 chassis, was published. https://grau.informost.ru/2018/pdf/part1/20.pdf?fbclid=IwAR2oLt9ESnmbuxPpMehMZxGf8iEYwPfrbsYYOq6q0fhYXt8gCp9u77Zj_0U …
    ............

    Looks like they dropped redesigned turret and just went with track standard

    Hopefully they move it to Kamaz MRAP truck in final version
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    Re: 2S35 Koalitsiya-SV 152mm

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Tue Feb 05, 2019 12:24 am

    higurashihougi wrote: Pls forgive my ignorance and allow me to ask this question, I thought slow ignition is more preferable for propellant, since it allow the pressure to be slowly released and gradually increased, which reduce the risk and damage for the gun barrel. People change from black powder to brown powder and to Nobel powder just for the powder to burn slowly, isn't it Question

    Im not sure if I can forgive you this question lol1 lol1 lol1

    There is  lot of things under Electrothermal-chemical (ETC) technology but generlly it is bout more muzzle energy / velocity and less pressure...

    https://www.nextbigfuture.com/2017/03/plans-for-new-us-super-tank-with.html


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    Re: 2S35 Koalitsiya-SV 152mm

    Post  GarryB on Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:34 am

    Pls forgive my ignorance and allow me to ask this question, I thought slow ignition is more preferable for propellant, since it allow the pressure to be slowly released and gradually increased, which reduce the risk and damage for the gun barrel. People change from black powder to brown powder and to Nobel powder just for the powder to burn slowly, isn't it

    If you think of it as blowing something through a straw... the best distance is achieved by getting maximum pressure as soon as possible and maintaining that pressure for as long as the projectile is in the straw... once it leaves of course the pressure is relieved rapidly.

    In this example however things are simplified because no set of human lungs could burst a straw with too much pressure.

    A gun on the other hand could easily be destroyed with too much pressure.

    If you replace the propellant from an artillery piece with HE then it will not act as a gun... it will act like a bomb.

    The rate of expansion and pressure will burst the barrel.

    Any artillery piece barrel has a pressure limit and a physical length.

    For the developers of the propellent the key goals are to reach the pressure limit but not exceed it as quickly as possible and maintain that pressure level for as long as the projectile is inside the barrel.

    If the propellant does not burn evenly then the pressure wont be any where near the max operating pressure and the remaining powder will burn after the projectile has left the barrel and create a pretty and enormous muzzle flash.

    The propellant will be formulated to generate the right amount of pressure for the right amount of time to achieve the required performance so using microwave energy to ensure the propellent burns thoroughly and completely inside the barrel means it achieves its max pressure faster, pushing the projectile to higher speeds and maintains that pressure to the end of the barrel, which should reduce muzzle flash, and maximise muzzle velocity (and also therefore range).

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