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what earliest date should we see Russia deploying UAVs in the predator class? like the Altius? its been around for years but very little info was made available. I wish they field them as soon as this year, Syria is the best place to test them atm
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UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News
Project Canada- Posts : 662
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Join date : 2015-07-20
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Project Canada- Posts : 662
Points : 663
Join date : 2015-07-20
Location : Canada
FSUE "TsAGI" is testing UAV scheme "tiltrotor"
The specialists of FSUE "TsAGI" completed another cycle of work on the unmanned aerial vehicle scheme "tiltrotor."
This forward-looking flying machine combines the advantages of a helicopter (the possibility of vertical takeoff and landing) and aircraft (speed, distance and flight duration). It is designed to monitor the underlying surface, solving transport problems. UAV is able to be based on non-equipped small areas in the future may be used in various industries.
The basis of the aircraft of this class is a direct extension of the moderate wing. It is composed of a thick sections and is designed as a junior researcher at the Department of aerodynamics of aircraft and missiles FSUE "TsAGI" Oleg Kudryavtsev and chief designer of "INNOTECH" Eugene Kovalenko.
The experiments showed that the overall aerodynamic design is characterized by the expected high for this class of aircraft the level of aerodynamic perfection. "This was made possible by an integrated approach to the design and layout of the wing as a whole, the correct choice of the main criteria. There is still a lot of work in the field of dynamics, stability and control, aeroelasticity provide strength and structure ", - said Head of Sector department of aerodynamics of aircraft and missiles FSUE" TsAGI ", the head of work on aerodynamics UAV Alexander Kornushenko.
In 2016 it is planned to continue testing unmanned experimental installations FSUE "TsAGI". The research will provide a databank of aerodynamic characteristics, to test numerical methods, to identify particular flow arrangement in a wide range of angles of attack aircraft and helicopter modes, reported the press service of the Industry and Trade Ministry.
http://www.arms-expo.ru/news/novye_razrabotki/fgup_tsagi_provodit_ispytaniya_bespilotnika_skhemy_konvertoplan/?utm_campaign=shareaholic&utm_medium=facebook&utm_source=socialnetwork
The specialists of FSUE "TsAGI" completed another cycle of work on the unmanned aerial vehicle scheme "tiltrotor."
This forward-looking flying machine combines the advantages of a helicopter (the possibility of vertical takeoff and landing) and aircraft (speed, distance and flight duration). It is designed to monitor the underlying surface, solving transport problems. UAV is able to be based on non-equipped small areas in the future may be used in various industries.
The basis of the aircraft of this class is a direct extension of the moderate wing. It is composed of a thick sections and is designed as a junior researcher at the Department of aerodynamics of aircraft and missiles FSUE "TsAGI" Oleg Kudryavtsev and chief designer of "INNOTECH" Eugene Kovalenko.
The experiments showed that the overall aerodynamic design is characterized by the expected high for this class of aircraft the level of aerodynamic perfection. "This was made possible by an integrated approach to the design and layout of the wing as a whole, the correct choice of the main criteria. There is still a lot of work in the field of dynamics, stability and control, aeroelasticity provide strength and structure ", - said Head of Sector department of aerodynamics of aircraft and missiles FSUE" TsAGI ", the head of work on aerodynamics UAV Alexander Kornushenko.
In 2016 it is planned to continue testing unmanned experimental installations FSUE "TsAGI". The research will provide a databank of aerodynamic characteristics, to test numerical methods, to identify particular flow arrangement in a wide range of angles of attack aircraft and helicopter modes, reported the press service of the Industry and Trade Ministry.
http://www.arms-expo.ru/news/novye_razrabotki/fgup_tsagi_provodit_ispytaniya_bespilotnika_skhemy_konvertoplan/?utm_campaign=shareaholic&utm_medium=facebook&utm_source=socialnetwork
GarryB- Posts : 39078
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UAVs lack the heavy payload capacity of bombers... especially strategic bombers, but they do have very long loiter times in some cases.
When the question is loiter time and combat persistance the solution will likely end up being either UAVs and rockets or UAVs and Airships.
the problem with airships is they don't move fast so to get good coverage you would need a lot of airships. the advantage is they would be able to carry enormous numbers of munitions and operate over enemy territory or disputed territory for weeks at a time.
the advantage of rockets or missiles like Iskander and Kalibr is that you can centralise them and fire them at targets as they appear... problem is that they are not cheap.
Personally I think the best solution would be very small guided bombs like a KAB-50 or even KAB-10 that is accurate enough to hit small point targets without killing everyone on the block.
For area targets larger platforms can be called up, but sometimes a Tu-22M3M loitering for very long periods with 1,000kg bombs can be an answer too.
When the question is loiter time and combat persistance the solution will likely end up being either UAVs and rockets or UAVs and Airships.
the problem with airships is they don't move fast so to get good coverage you would need a lot of airships. the advantage is they would be able to carry enormous numbers of munitions and operate over enemy territory or disputed territory for weeks at a time.
the advantage of rockets or missiles like Iskander and Kalibr is that you can centralise them and fire them at targets as they appear... problem is that they are not cheap.
Personally I think the best solution would be very small guided bombs like a KAB-50 or even KAB-10 that is accurate enough to hit small point targets without killing everyone on the block.
For area targets larger platforms can be called up, but sometimes a Tu-22M3M loitering for very long periods with 1,000kg bombs can be an answer too.
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"Russia’s Central Aerohydrodynamic Institute (TsAGI) is testing an unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) with the characteristics of a convertiplane, the Russian Industry and Trade Ministry’s press office said on Friday, February 5, 2016. The unmanned aerial vehicle features vertical takeoff and landing capabilities as a helicopter and a higher speed and an increased cargo-carrying capacity as a turboprop aircraft, the press office added.
"The unmanned aerial vehicle is designed to monitor underlying terrain and accomplish transport tasks. The UAV can be based on small rough sites and will be used in various spheres in future," the press office said. "A UAV of this type features a medium-length straight wing," the press office added. According to the Industry and Trade Ministry’s press office, the tests have proved the UAV’s inherent characteristics. In particular, the trials have shown that the UAV’s design has good aerodynamic characteristics.
Russia’s TsAGI will continue testing the new UAV with the characteristics of a convertiplane in 2016. TsAGI will focus on determining the specifics of the air glide effect in a wide angle-of-attack range at various flight modes. "There is a lot to do for the UAV’s dynamics, sustainability and controllability, structure strength and aeroelasticity," Chief of TsAGI’s Aircraft and Missile Aerodynamics Department and Head of Work on UAV Aerodynamics Alexander Kornushenko said."
Source: http://www.armyrecognition.com/february_2016_global_defense_security_news_industry/tsagi_of_russia_is_testing_unmanned_aerial_vehicle_features_vertical_takeoff_and_landing_capabilities_tass_10502165.html
"The unmanned aerial vehicle is designed to monitor underlying terrain and accomplish transport tasks. The UAV can be based on small rough sites and will be used in various spheres in future," the press office said. "A UAV of this type features a medium-length straight wing," the press office added. According to the Industry and Trade Ministry’s press office, the tests have proved the UAV’s inherent characteristics. In particular, the trials have shown that the UAV’s design has good aerodynamic characteristics.
Russia’s TsAGI will continue testing the new UAV with the characteristics of a convertiplane in 2016. TsAGI will focus on determining the specifics of the air glide effect in a wide angle-of-attack range at various flight modes. "There is a lot to do for the UAV’s dynamics, sustainability and controllability, structure strength and aeroelasticity," Chief of TsAGI’s Aircraft and Missile Aerodynamics Department and Head of Work on UAV Aerodynamics Alexander Kornushenko said."
Source: http://www.armyrecognition.com/february_2016_global_defense_security_news_industry/tsagi_of_russia_is_testing_unmanned_aerial_vehicle_features_vertical_takeoff_and_landing_capabilities_tass_10502165.html
x_54_u43- Posts : 336
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I'll never say an ill word against Sputnik ever again.
https://www.rt.com/news/332045-tank-destroyer-drone-complex/
https://www.rt.com/news/332045-tank-destroyer-drone-complex/
x_54_u43- Posts : 336
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sepheronx- Posts : 8548
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Why?x_54_u43 wrote:I'll never say an ill word against Sputnik ever again.
https://www.rt.com/news/332045-tank-destroyer-drone-complex/
What ever happened to the drone that Transas was working on?
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sepheronx wrote:Why?x_54_u43 wrote:I'll never say an ill word against Sputnik ever again.
https://www.rt.com/news/332045-tank-destroyer-drone-complex/
What ever happened to the drone that Transas was working on?
That thing in video is quite humiliating i must say, i couldnt belive my eyes today. Why would they come up with something like this... its off shelf quadcopter with disposable AT placed on it....
sepheronx- Posts : 8548
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Agreed. But it seems that Russian uav tech is taking a back seat. I mean, their ucav drones are none existent. I imagine this system was more of a test but really, where is transas and sokol ucav?
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sepheronx wrote:Agreed. But it seems that Russian uav tech is taking a back seat. I mean, their ucav drones are none existent. I imagine this system was more of a test but really, where is transas and sokol ucav?
Pacer they even stopped mentioning. Altius-M they mentioned during 2015. as it might "enter service in 2017."...
sepheronx- Posts : 8548
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Too many companies doing same type of program. Simply get one to make one amd be done with it. I imagine is various tests to test out such system. The drone featured is sad but the software and reaction was impressive (accuracy), but that clearly wont be the drone serviced.
Project Canada- Posts : 662
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it must be just some kind of a test platform for future UCAVs.
I really hope they continue the pace with their heavy UAV developments despite the present funding difficulties
I really hope they continue the pace with their heavy UAV developments despite the present funding difficulties
magnumcromagnon- Posts : 8138
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Militarov wrote:sepheronx wrote:Why?x_54_u43 wrote:I'll never say an ill word against Sputnik ever again.
https://www.rt.com/news/332045-tank-destroyer-drone-complex/
What ever happened to the drone that Transas was working on?
That thing in video is quite humiliating i must say, i couldnt belive my eyes today. Why would they come up with something like this... its off shelf quadcopter with disposable AT placed on it....
Why spend a buttload of money on something as disposable as a UAV/UCAV? Something cheap, easily mass produced and put in to service would suffice at least as a stop-gap for more ambitious and capable designs.
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magnumcromagnon wrote:Militarov wrote:sepheronx wrote:Why?x_54_u43 wrote:I'll never say an ill word against Sputnik ever again.
https://www.rt.com/news/332045-tank-destroyer-drone-complex/
What ever happened to the drone that Transas was working on?
That thing in video is quite humiliating i must say, i couldnt belive my eyes today. Why would they come up with something like this... its off shelf quadcopter with disposable AT placed on it....
Why spend a buttload of money on something as disposable as a UAV/UCAV? Something cheap, easily mass produced and put in to service would suffice at least as a stop-gap for more ambitious and capable designs.
UCAVs are cheap, easily mass produced compared to what they offer. They are alot cheaper than gunship helicopters or CAS aircraft, you do not risk your pilot, you remove pilot training expences, fly hour price is like for better car, and some can spend even almost a day in air. If they were not required for modern warfare noone would bother with them, however everyone is trying to develop or at least buy one strike capable. For love of God Iranians with their "mockup army" managed to field one...
And if Russians cant build decent UCAV i am not sure what "more ambitious" they could possibly work on. They talk about their UCAVs since early 2000s and till now we have seen only mockups.
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Project Canada wrote:it must be just some kind of a test platform for future UCAVs.
I really hope they continue the pace with their heavy UAV developments despite the present funding difficulties
Not sure what would they test on this thing. From what i undersood they are dead serious with this thing, they are trying to sell it to FSB....
OminousSpudd- Posts : 942
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Geez, there goes the perception of Russia's military again. Why do they insist on sabotaging their image with this crap time and again, if you're testing a system that is nothing fancy, why bother showing it off until you've at least got a marginally finalised version. An area where America has outstanding expertise; sleazy presentation, so much so that they make their absolutely shite products look like the ultimate on the market, not unlike a used-car salesman who is outside cleaning his lot's stock everyday, while underneath the vehicle is rusted out. They have full-blown constant saturation of HD mil-vids pouring out of their nation like vomit, and through these methods (Video Game: War etc) they have garnered the reputation of being unbeatable. There is something to be said for this philosophy.
Russia on the other hand seems completely polarized to this altogether. Everything is kept relatively grounded and (factual?), during war, their gear performs far beyond that of Western equivalents. While I like this factual no-nonsense "war is hell" approach far more than the "car-salesman, war is hella fun" approach, it doesn't mean you have to show completely "naked" "poor-man" prototype devices that are about as awe-inspiring as a roll of toilet paper just because they're there. /rant
Russia on the other hand seems completely polarized to this altogether. Everything is kept relatively grounded and (factual?), during war, their gear performs far beyond that of Western equivalents. While I like this factual no-nonsense "war is hell" approach far more than the "car-salesman, war is hella fun" approach, it doesn't mean you have to show completely "naked" "poor-man" prototype devices that are about as awe-inspiring as a roll of toilet paper just because they're there. /rant
Guest- Guest
OminousSpudd wrote:Geez, there goes the perception of Russia's military again. Why do they insist on sabotaging their image with this crap time and again, if you're testing a system that is nothing fancy, why bother showing it off until you've at least got a marginally finalised version. An area where America has outstanding expertise; sleazy presentation, so much so that they make their absolutely shite products look like the ultimate on the market, not unlike a used-car salesman who is outside cleaning his lot's stock everyday, while underneath the vehicle is rusted out. They have full-blown constant saturation of HD mil-vids pouring out of their nation like vomit, and through these methods (Video Game: War etc) they have garnered the reputation of being unbeatable. There is something to be said for this philosophy.
Russia on the other hand seems completely polarized to this altogether. Everything is kept relatively grounded and (factual?), during war, their gear performs far beyond that of Western equivalents. While I like this factual no-nonsense "war is hell" approach far more than the "car-salesman, war is hella fun" approach, it doesn't mean you have to show completely "naked" "poor-man" prototype devices that are about as awe-inspiring as a roll of toilet paper just because they're there. /rant
When they show something like this on RT as "tank killer drone" i just stare in shock for 5 minutes. Okay i understand, this is totally fine if flip-flop guys in Yemen came up with this, but srsly... second biggest military exporter in the world bought drone on Ebay for 3.000$ and placed RPG on it?
I looked at the comments on local military forum regarding this, even hardcore Pro-Russian guys were laughing at it... just fkn humiliating.
magnumcromagnon- Posts : 8138
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Interesting while everyone was hyperventilating, I came across this:
If the RQ-170 told us anything than even the most advanced and expensive drones can be jammed/spoofed/defeated by countries with living fossils of air-defense networks, such as Iran. So to be practical it makes sense to save money on the expendable portion (the drones) but spend the sufficient funds on the reusable most important part (the command post).
In addition, the company "Vega" was presented at the exhibition upgraded hardware and software system of group control of UAVs and ground robotic systems (on vehicle KAMAZ-43116). The complex has a UAV controls and robots, equipped with five workstations for operators. With the help of high-performance supercomputer, which is part of the product, it is possible to control up to 10 UAVs and ground-based robotic systems simultaneously. The machine has high maneuverability and can operate autonomously for up to seven days. Time deploy mobile control station - no more than 15 minutes.
CMO presented a draft impact multikopternogo complex
If the RQ-170 told us anything than even the most advanced and expensive drones can be jammed/spoofed/defeated by countries with living fossils of air-defense networks, such as Iran. So to be practical it makes sense to save money on the expendable portion (the drones) but spend the sufficient funds on the reusable most important part (the command post).
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magnumcromagnon wrote:Interesting while everyone was hyperventilating, I came across this:
In addition, the company "Vega" was presented at the exhibition upgraded hardware and software system of group control of UAVs and ground robotic systems (on vehicle KAMAZ-43116). The complex has a UAV controls and robots, equipped with five workstations for operators. With the help of high-performance supercomputer, which is part of the product, it is possible to control up to 10 UAVs and ground-based robotic systems simultaneously. The machine has high maneuverability and can operate autonomously for up to seven days. Time deploy mobile control station - no more than 15 minutes.
CMO presented a draft impact multikopternogo complex
If the RQ-170 told us anything than even the most advanced and expensive drones can be jammed/spoofed/defeated by countries with living fossils of air-defense networks, such as Iran. So to be practical it makes sense to save money on the expendable portion (the drones) but spend the sufficient funds on the reusable most important part (the command post).
Naturally they can, everything can be jammed, spoofed and defeated one way or another, its part of war, loses. However Sentinel was most likely just picked due to fact they managed to break link with satelite, US underestimated Iranians and thats all.
Sure, command post is nice thing to have, actually mandatory for UCAVs, however... even technologically backward countries like Serbia developed those on their own with partially imported components so its not really a big deal. On other hand what for are they going to use those command posts.. to control for next 50 years Orbiters 10 and these eBay quadcopters?
sepheronx- Posts : 8548
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The software and how the robot handles. I admit that it was very swift and precise. But yes, it looks like some ebay drone. But no ebay drone has such capabilities.Militarov wrote:Project Canada wrote:it must be just some kind of a test platform for future UCAVs.
I really hope they continue the pace with their heavy UAV developments despite the present funding difficulties
Not sure what would they test on this thing. From what i undersood they are dead serious with this thing, they are trying to sell it to FSB....
The other helicopter uavs look very professional. I imagine this was a test platform and cosmetics come later.
x_54_u43- Posts : 336
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What you geniuses all fail to see, is that the AT drone is one of four, all the other three are for other purposes, and look very clean and developed, perfect for your like.
All of you are incredibly shallow, seeing only the surface and judging by it. A better course of action would be to instead ponder the uses of such a system, such as in low-scale counter-terrorism operations, where a cheap system for highly accurate point attacks with in-service weaponry and microscopic logistics footprint would be wonderful to have. Instead, you have chosen Western-style thinking.
Which would you rather have? A mindset of cold rationality and thinking geared towards achieving every possible advantage over the enemy, or the mindset of incredibly expensive elephants, of ridiculous concepts such as Javelins and APU-equipped towed artillery units? Image gives nothing in war, and does not influence anyone except for low-level intellectuals on circle-jerk forums like F-16.net, which you are turning this forum into.
Pick and choose, intelligence/rationality versus low-minded childish squeals of something not being shiny and techy enough.
All of you are incredibly shallow, seeing only the surface and judging by it. A better course of action would be to instead ponder the uses of such a system, such as in low-scale counter-terrorism operations, where a cheap system for highly accurate point attacks with in-service weaponry and microscopic logistics footprint would be wonderful to have. Instead, you have chosen Western-style thinking.
Which would you rather have? A mindset of cold rationality and thinking geared towards achieving every possible advantage over the enemy, or the mindset of incredibly expensive elephants, of ridiculous concepts such as Javelins and APU-equipped towed artillery units? Image gives nothing in war, and does not influence anyone except for low-level intellectuals on circle-jerk forums like F-16.net, which you are turning this forum into.
Pick and choose, intelligence/rationality versus low-minded childish squeals of something not being shiny and techy enough.
sepheronx- Posts : 8548
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The other drones you mention is the ones in the rt link as well?
That said, I was saying im impressed how swift it was and pinpoint accuracy. I am also criticizing the look but you are correct.
That said, I was saying im impressed how swift it was and pinpoint accuracy. I am also criticizing the look but you are correct.
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sepheronx wrote:The software and how the robot handles. I admit that it was very swift and precise. But yes, it looks like some ebay drone. But no ebay drone has such capabilities.Militarov wrote:Project Canada wrote:it must be just some kind of a test platform for future UCAVs.
I really hope they continue the pace with their heavy UAV developments despite the present funding difficulties
Not sure what would they test on this thing. From what i undersood they are dead serious with this thing, they are trying to sell it to FSB....
The other helicopter uavs look very professional. I imagine this was a test platform and cosmetics come later.
Software changes drastically depending on platform that you use it on, so i dont think so they really tested software on these toys. Back on college we made 20ish kg UAV that could land/take off on its own with gyroscope, gps reciever and few other sensors tied to computer (Basically industrial PLC or microcontroler) and we wrote our custom software for it, when Slovenian technical college tried same took them weeks to change our code to suit their drone. Note that i am talking here about drone software/Digital Flight Control Systems not consoles.
And if they need to test their software like this Russians are in trouble, coz this kind of testing is mostly connected to pioneering in some technology, when you are mature in something like this software is mostly just bench tested and later fixed via field reports and updated though time if needed.
Like this for an example:
When its about Russian helicopter/quadcopter based drones, there were many mentioned or "mockuped" last few years. I know that Russians bought few years back (and some assembled locally apparently) Schiebel Camcopter S-100 i belive it appeared in some RT video as "Russian domestic product". Kamov wants to build own helicopter drone Ka-175, but i do not know how far did they go with it.
UAE Adcom Systems was approached by Russians to help them turn Berkut VL ultra-light helicopter into attack drone some years ago, again not sure what happened with it. Then those fairly small Garnet-VA-200/Garnet-VA-1000, but those are produced by licence obtained from German Microdrones. TsAGI is working last year or two on similar designs but nothing solid just testing, trying, making concepts...
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x_54_u43 wrote:What you geniuses all fail to see, is that the AT drone is one of four, all the other three are for other purposes, and look very clean and developed, perfect for your like.
All of you are incredibly shallow, seeing only the surface and judging by it. A better course of action would be to instead ponder the uses of such a system, such as in low-scale counter-terrorism operations, where a cheap system for highly accurate point attacks with in-service weaponry and microscopic logistics footprint would be wonderful to have. Instead, you have chosen Western-style thinking.
Which would you rather have? A mindset of cold rationality and thinking geared towards achieving every possible advantage over the enemy, or the mindset of incredibly expensive elephants, of ridiculous concepts such as Javelins and APU-equipped towed artillery units? Image gives nothing in war, and does not influence anyone except for low-level intellectuals on circle-jerk forums like F-16.net, which you are turning this forum into.
Pick and choose, intelligence/rationality versus low-minded childish squeals of something not being shiny and techy enough.
"look very clean and developed"... You mean Amazon and Ebay ripoffs with Chinese engines
? There is big, big difference between mockup for military expo and something that actually can be used. Everyone operates quadcopters and ultra-light and micro UAVs, noone is saying that idea is somehow wrong, just these things we saw are...beyond patethic.
Image does not bring anything, eBay equipment however does not bring much either.
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Militarov wrote: If they were not required for modern warfare none would bother with them, however everyone is trying to develop or at least buy one strike capable. For love of God Iranians with their "mockup army" managed to field one...
And if Russians cant build decent UCAV i am not sure what "more ambitious" they could possibly work on.
https://www.russiadefence.net/t3722p195-iran-latest-and-breaking-news#149887
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