UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News

If we take into account possible Israeli airforce interdiction... yes they might shoot them down.
But other than that i don't see too many threats. As was correctly stated MANPADS are ineffective and ISIS and most of the rebels owns only those.
North of the country is pretty safe considering that Turkey won't interdict into Syrian airspace but border regions would have been off limits coz they might attempt to shoot it down from Turkey...

Of course you could always equip the UCAVs with R-77Ms and use ground radar to detect targets to engage, with ground based radar detecting air targets/threats and then passing on the target data to the UCAV which launches the missile and uses a datalink to guide the missile to the target area using updates from ground radar or perhaps airborne IRST... once the missile is within range it will use its own radar to find the target and kill it.

Fly them around Syrian airspace and let a few photos of them be released showing them with R-77Ms under wing pylons and let them try...

Internal weapon space could be used to carry compact FAB-50 bombs with satellite and laser guidance... say four bombs internally and say 4 tubes with Krisantema or Kornet or some other laser beam riding missile under each wing and two pylons for R-77Ms on the outer pylons... two would be plenty.

Actually the R-77M is designed with folding rear fins and a launch pylon that throws the missile down and clear of the aircraft at launch so it can be used from internal weapons bays, so for lower drag two R-77Ms in the lower corners of the lower fuselage like on the Tornado might be a much better low drag configuration...

Four FAB-50s would be 200kgs, eight Krisantema or Kornets would be between 240kg-300kgs extra and two R-77Ms would be about 350kgs, so we are talking about an all up weight of about 850kgs, which should not be excessive considering the size of the UAV.

Equally only the ATGMs would create significant drag, but I think in practical use they might find the bombs are useful enough or they might find the ATGMs are enough with HE warheads and choose to carry either bombs or missiles but not both.

the FAB bombs are designed to be compact for internal carriage so should pack quite efficiently and with guidance should be very accurate so their light weight should reduce collateral damage.

the missiles on the other hand would be useful against moving targets and could be used in the air to air role in an emergency at short range.

The US flys over northern Iraq and I suspect would attack targets in Syria.

Keep in mind that Syrian UCAVs will be used against both ISIS and the anti Assad rebels... the US wont care about any damage they might do to ISIS, but they might try to protect anti Assad rebels... which would include attempting to shoot down the UCAVs.

Whoaaa... lets stay on the ground.

Altius is not a combat drone right?
FAB-50 is a bomb too small to house guidance.
External pylons having beam riding missiles are a possibility but Altius is probably not built to carry too much of weapons.

I would compare Altius more to Global Hawk.
Meaning its main weapons are Altitude, Range and endurance.

And regarding the US shooting down the vehicle...
Not gonna happen...
Why? Because they know perfectly well that when they want to attack ISIS targets in Syria they have to pass Syrian Airdefense zones... SAA would have retaliated on USAF if they shoot one of their UAVs...

GarryB wrote:Of course you could always equip the UCAVs with R-77Ms and use ground radar to detect targets to engage, with ground based radar detecting air targets/threats and then passing on the target data to the UCAV which launches the missile and uses a datalink to guide the missile to the target area using updates from ground radar or perhaps airborne IRST... once the missile is within range it will use its own radar to find the target and kill it.

Fly them around Syrian airspace and let a few photos of them be released showing them with R-77Ms under wing pylons and let them try...  

Internal weapon space could be used to carry compact FAB-50 bombs with satellite and laser guidance... say four bombs internally and say 4 tubes with Krisantema or Kornet or some other laser beam riding missile under each wing and two pylons for R-77Ms on the outer pylons... two would be plenty.

Actually the R-77M is designed with folding rear fins and a launch pylon that throws the missile down and clear of the aircraft at launch so it can be used from internal weapons bays, so for lower drag two R-77Ms in the lower corners of the lower fuselage like on the Tornado might be a much better low drag configuration...

Four FAB-50s would be 200kgs, eight Krisantema or Kornets would be between 240kg-300kgs extra and two R-77Ms would be about 350kgs, so we are talking about an all up weight of about 850kgs, which should not be excessive considering the size of the UAV.

Equally only the ATGMs would create significant drag, but I think in practical use they might find the bombs are useful enough or they might find the ATGMs are enough with HE warheads and choose to carry either bombs or missiles but not both.

the FAB bombs are designed to be compact for internal carriage so should pack quite efficiently and with guidance should be very accurate so their light weight should reduce collateral damage.

the missiles on the other hand would be useful against moving targets and could be used in the air to air role in an emergency at short range.

The US flys over northern Iraq and I suspect would attack targets in Syria.

Keep in mind that Syrian UCAVs will be used against both ISIS and the anti Assad rebels... the US wont care about any damage they might do to ISIS, but they might try to protect anti Assad rebels... which would include attempting to shoot down the UCAVs.

Personally i don't think this Chirok thing is not much of a game changer.
Russians needs to focus more on Strategic reconnaisance vehicles rather than tactical ones.
I think Russia already has lots of small tactical UAVs with low endurance, small range and low cost.
But they need to gather Strategic intelligence.
If for example America releases its new destroyer the same days Russian UAV has to fly over.... the same goes with introducing eny new technology or puttin into action new military installation like ABM radar, ABM missile site and so on.
Moscow badly needs eyes and ears in the sky... everything to achieve most accurate assesment of NATO capabilities. These are exactly the missions HALE and MALE vehicles are perfect for.
And unfortunately because of technology gap, Moscow is playing the catchup now...
This is what drives me crazy because if it wasnt for that idiot Serdyukov with his lapdog Popovkin that was (god thank you...) kicked out of Roscosmos because of his incompetence, UAV industry in Russia would have been in much better shape than it is...

Altius is not a combat drone right?

It is a UAV unarmed drone in its current form, but if you want to send it into hostile airspace where the enemy has a mature and capable air force you need to give it some ability to defend itself or you might as well just not bother.

FAB-50 is a bomb too small to house guidance.

Sat nav guidance can be as small as a smart phone and would be accurate enough for most targets.

External pylons having beam riding missiles are a possibility but Altius is probably not built to carry too much of weapons.

400-700kgs is not that much.

I would compare Altius more to Global Hawk.
Meaning its main weapons are Altitude, Range and endurance.

Your comparison is irrelevant... who cares what western UAV the Altius most looks like or is most comparable in terms of its role? How will that protect it from being shot down by an F-16?

And regarding the US shooting down the vehicle...
Not gonna happen...
Why? Because they know perfectly well that when they want to attack ISIS targets in Syria they have to pass Syrian Airdefense zones... SAA would have retaliated on USAF if they shoot one of their UAVs...

If the UAV is effective and aides Syria in dealing with its rebel problem... ISIS and US supported rebels, then don't you think the US might decide to get more involved?

One way of escalating the situation would be to shoot down a UAV and then "defend" itself from the air defence forces that retaliate. A great way to start an air campaign.

A UCAV with the ability to deal with targets as it finds them (ie FAB-50 and Krisantema/Kornet-EM) and also some ability to engage enemy aircraft (R-73 or Igla or R-77M) is more valuable than one that relies on altitude.

Personally i don't think this Chirok thing is not much of a game changer.

An unmanned aerial vehicle that can land on any relatively flat surface that can carry up to two people or quite a bit of ammo/weapons/food/water/fuel would be very useful for special ops groups behind enemy lines, or troops at outposts/bases.

Russians needs to focus more on Strategic reconnaisance vehicles rather than tactical ones.

Strategic UAVs are over rated... Russia has no global empire to oversee like the US does...

I think Russia already has lots of small tactical UAVs with low endurance, small range and low cost.

Small tactical ones... they have a few, but medium and heavy drones would also be very useful too.

But they need to gather Strategic intelligence.

Most of the time satellites are better.

If for example America releases its new destroyer the same days Russian UAV has to fly over.... the same goes with introducing eny new technology or puttin into action new military installation like ABM radar, ABM missile site and so on.

Satellites fly over every 90 minutes or so, but Russian UAVs wont be allowed over US airspace in my lifetime...

Moscow badly needs eyes and ears in the sky... everything to achieve most accurate assesment of NATO capabilities. These are exactly the missions HALE and MALE vehicles are perfect for.

Exactly what they are useless for... there is no way they would be ignored in NATO airspace.

And unfortunately because of technology gap, Moscow is playing the catchup now...

Because of the delay Moscow doesn't have to waste time with dead end directions because they can learn from the mistakes of others and avoid wasting money.

What is this catch up crap?

Moscow doesn't need to murder people in Pakistan... they don't need the tools of a torture loving evil empire like the US.

This is what drives me crazy because if it wasnt for that idiot Serdyukov with his lapdog Popovkin that was (god thank you...) kicked out of Roscosmos because of his incompetence, UAV industry in Russia would have been in much better shape than it is...

Their UAV industry is fine... what is the hurry?

Central MD Intelligence Officers Received Latest Takhion Drones

This type of UAV is developed for aerial reconnaissance at the distances of up to 40 km day and night and in difficult weather conditions. In particular, the UAV remains controllable at wind speeds of 15 m/sec.

Moreover “Takhion” can be used as a communication repeater. It operates at the altitudes of up to 4 000 metres above sea level. Operating temperature range is from -30 to +40 degrees Celsius.

The Russian Central Military District receives the new UAVs within the State Defence Order. Their usage will improve combat capabilities of the Central MD reconnaissance units.

In July 2014, Russian military announced the creation of a division of unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) within a separate peacekeeping motorized rifle formation of the Central Military District deployed in Russia’s Samara Region. According to the information furnished by the press service of the Central Military District, the division of UAVs will make it possible to improve combat capabilities of the formation, control and monitor the areas of peacekeeping operations, as well as conduct reconnaissance under any weather conditions and at any time of day or night.

Under the terms of the Russia's state defence order, the peacekeepers will take delivery of 15 advanced drones, representing various modifications of Orlan, Leer, Takhion and Eleron complexes. It should be noted that the new division will be staffed with contract soldiers, who have undergone special training at the Kolomna-based UAV Center.

http://www.armyrecognition.com/march_2015_global_defense_security_news_uk/russian_central_military_district_s_troops_now_equipped_with_takhion_unmanned_aerial_vehicles.html

Built the first prototype UAV "Teal" weighing 750 kg. Work began on a two-ton drone.

GarryB wrote:Their UAV industry is fine... what is the hurry?

Speaking of hurry, how many drones Garry do you think MiG can manufacture per month? Top of my head IAI manufactures 12-15 Heron type drones per month from each of their facilities.

Speaking of hurry, how many drones Garry do you think MiG can manufacture per month? Top of my head IAI manufactures 12-15 Heron type drones per month from each of their facilities.

Very hard to say as in the next few years MiG will have their hands full producing MiG-29ks for India and Russia and will also start production of the MiG-35 for the Russian AF and perhaps export orders too.

Regarding production capacity of drones a 2 ton drone is a bit like a light aircraft, which should probably start slow and slowly increase, but I would expect once the design is ready and is accepted they should be able to make them in significant numbers... probably starting at 3-4, but with potential to ramp up production fairly significantly once production of the air vehicle is mastered.

Keep in mind that IAI doesn't produce as many as it can... it will just be producing what it has orders for and I suspect most of its customers already have IAI products in stock so large production numbers are not needed.

In comparison, MiG will largely likely be producing for the Russian military and perhaps government branches like the MVD and border patrol etc... none of which currently have 2 ton UAVs in service, so initial demand might be rather higher so production might ramp up... but eventually might drop back to replacement aircraft levels.

What is the price per UAVs flight divided by number of targets can destroy at a single flight? Compared that whit a aircraft

Aircraft would be much more expensive... especially when adding in the cost of a rescue mission for any surviving crew...

So you could send 3 drones to complete the mision cause the cost of exploatation of the 3 drones makes exacly for a single aicraft. 3 drones means also enough ammo.

Can some one list out known UAV/UCAV program under development ?

I can list of few I know

1 T UAV
5 T UAV Atlis-M
18 T joint Mig-Sukhoi UCAV

Is Mig seperately developing new 10 T UCAV program and can some one list out others ?

I think there was a list back somewhere in this thread.

I remember compiling one once.

If not then just look through this thread, you'll find the info you need.

The concern mach7ine engineering technologies" [b]conducts testing of ammunition for future Russian armed drones

http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/2020083

SOLIKAMSK /Perm/, 4 June. /Corr. TASS Anastasia Pyatkina/. The concern machine engineering technologies" conducts testing of ammunition for future Russian armed drones. This was reported June 4 at a press conference, Deputy General Director of the concern Vladimir Tikhonov.
According to him, the drones are divided into the apparatus information, field reconnaissance and impact type machines. "Now tested our ammunition for prospective armed drones. This is one of the tasks set by one of the Contracting departments of the Ministry of defense. The concern in this niche has been development by order. We are interested in these developments have been implemented," - said Tikhonov.
In Russia, a program for the development of unmanned aviation until 2025. It provides for the establishment of special munitions for unmanned aerial vehicles.

Any news on the MALE and HALE projects? I would like to know about the Altius...

New Russian Military Drone Can Detect Highly Camouflaged Objects

The new Merlin-21b surveillance drone is equipped with a dual-band radar. The vehicle is capable of conducting aerial surveillance in any weather conditions and in any time of the day.

http://sputniknews.com/military/20150620/1023619575.html#ixzz3ddlFJzJB

I figure in the future, when Russia does actually develop drones with long endurance (more than 24h), that they will eventually equip strong enough radars to them to detect air and ground targets at long ranges and in enough forces for domestic security. In such a stance, it will be easier to field more awacs and such and not rely 100% on ground or space based radars.

Talking about future Seph

Russian scientists in 2015 will test drone with a flight duration of up to 45 hours

http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/2064254

MOSCOW, June 23. /TASS/. Russian experts intend the end of the year to test an unmanned aerial vehicle Inspector-01", duration of which will reach 42-45 hours. This was reported on June 23, TASS head of laboratory of Institute of problems of chemical physics Russian Academy of Sciences Yury Dobrovolsky.
According to him, special apparatus makes domestic hydrogen-air fuel cell new generation. Still, said the interlocutor of the Agency, this technology was not used in the drones. In addition, the Russian development has an electric motor that allows you to make the phone silent and leaves no heat signature.
"Already tested the prototype flew 30 hours. This fall, the UAV must fly above 40 hours. Flight, I hope, will be from 42 to 45 hours" - said the scientist.
Dobrovolsky said that this drone can be used in Arctic conditions. "One of the modifications it was under these conditions is done," he explained.
Just at the moment created three prototypes, told the Agency interlocutor. In future it is proposed to use such devices for reconnaissance and monitoring, and the interest already manifested in the Ministry of defense, said Dobrovolsky. "We hope to complete this program in 2017, this time, he will be available for potential customers. In 2017 series will be established," - said the scientist.
Drone "Inspector-01" is a joint development of the Institute of problems of chemical physics Russian Academy of Sciences, the United aircraft Corporation and the Central Institute of aviation motors.