IMDS St Petersburg 2021

Model of the Amulet autonomous uninhabited underwater vehicle

Model of the Amur-1650 submarine

Model of the Piranha-T small submarine 

Model of a large landing ship of the Project 11711

Piranha small SSN (left) and Serval SSK (Right)  

Questions: how small (big?) is Pirahna supposed to be exactly (because it doesn't look that small) and is there option of building them in large numbers to supplement larger SSNs/SSGNs?

I mean you don't need Yasen (or Akula or Husky) to patrol areas close by

Also is Serval supposed to be Kilo-class successor?

Tactical and technical characteristics of the "Piranha":

Dimensions: length - 28,3 m, width - 4,7 m, height - 5,1 m.
Displacement - surface - 218 t, scuba - 319 t.
Underwater travel speed - 6,7 knots, surface - 6 knots.
Cruising range - full 1000 miles, continuous underwater underway - 260 miles.
Maximum immersion depth - 200 m.
The autonomy of swimming is 10 days.
Crew - 3 crew + to 6 combat swimmers
Armament - 2 torpedoes 400 mm torpedo "Latush" or 4 mines.

GarryB wrote:Tactical and technical characteristics of the "Piranha":

Dimensions: length                                  - 28,3 m, width - 4,7 m, height - 5,1 m.
Displacement - surface                            - 218 t, scuba - 319 t.
Underwater travel speed                          - 6,7 knots, surface - 6 knots.
Cruising range                                        - full 1000 miles, continuous underwater underway - 260 miles.
Maximum immersion depth                      - 200 m.
The autonomy of swimming is 10 days.
Crew                                                      - 3 crew + to 6 combat swimmers
Armament                                              - 2 torpedoes 400 mm torpedo "Latush" or 4 mines.

Are you sure these numbers apply to this new version? Looks more like specs for old Soviet non-nuclear Piranha

Sail alone on this new ones looks to be 4 meters wide

PapaDragon wrote:
Piranha small SSN (left) and Serval SSK (Right)  

Questions: how small (big?) is Pirahna supposed to be exactly (because it doesn't look that small) and is there option of building them in large numbers to supplement larger SSNs/SSGNs?

I mean you don't need Yasen (or Akula or Husky) to patrol areas close by

Also is Serval supposed to be Kilo-class successor?

[img]https://www.gov.spb.ru/static/writable/mediact/photo/2021/06/24/2021-06-24_09-25-55_-_AL1I5997.Jimg]

Those are old designs and nothing new. Left is known as P-650 or p-550 and right is p-750B.

P-550 or p-650 also advertized as Piranha-T :

https://www.aoosk.ru/en/products/piranha-t/



P-750b presented few years ago.



For more information go check the midget submarine thread.

Russia starts promoting Rubezh-ME missile system on market — official

The state-of-the-art Project 22800E Karakurt-E missile corvette is also promoted on the global market

ST. PETERSBURG, June 24. /TASS/. Russia has initiated promotion of the cutting edge on shore missile system Rubezh-ME on the global arms market, press secretary of the Federal Service for Military Technical Cooperation Valeria Reshetnikova told TASS on Thursday at the 10th International Maritime Defense Show (IMDS) in St. Petersburg.

"Work is already underway in respect of a range of new and upgraded naval equipment for its promotion on the global market. For example, the onshore missile system Rubezh-ME can be mentioned among them," Reshetnikova said.

The state-of-the-art Project 22800E Karakurt-E missile corvette is also promoted on the global market, she added.

IMDS is being held in St. Petersburg from June 23 to 27.

https://tass.com/defense/1306865

I know some of you guys like small landing ships so here is something for you, Project 21810

Looks interesting, small enough so that some small shipyard could whip out a lot of them without too much hassle

Model of Project 12411

They should really finish these two already...

PapaDragon wrote:
I know some of you guys like small landing ships so here is something for you, Project 21810

Looks interesting, small enough so that some small shipyard could whip out a lot of them without too much hassle

with helipad also. It seems an enlarged evolution of 21820 class

This one can be used to carry containerized weapons. They plan some redut missiles in containers and they already have kalibr.

They could also create iskander or use drones from them.

They can then be considered as multipurpose boats.

GarryB wrote:Tactical and technical characteristics of the "Piranha":

Dimensions: length                                  - 28,3 m, width - 4,7 m, height - 5,1 m.
Displacement - surface                            - 218 t, scuba - 319 t.
Underwater travel speed                          - 6,7 knots, surface - 6 knots.
Cruising range                                        - full 1000 miles, continuous underwater underway - 260 miles.
Maximum immersion depth                      - 200 m.
The autonomy of swimming is 10 days.
Crew                                                      - 3 crew + to 6 combat swimmers
Armament                                              - 2 torpedoes 400 mm torpedo "Latush" or 4 mines.

I hope they build a few of these. They would be great in the Baltic.

Model of the patrol ship variant of the Project 22160

I know some of you guys like small landing ships so here is something for you, Project 21810

Looks interesting, small enough so that some small shipyard could whip out a lot of them without too much hassle

That is very interesting... it is rather bigger than the Serna and that means it can be armed and fitted with helicopters and those speed boats too, but the loadout on the model is rather interesting too... remember a while back when they tested using cranes to lower armoured vehicles into the water... this clearly does the same which means you can have armoured vehicles on the deck of the vessel and lower them into the water rather than needing lifts or much larger ships with bow ramps to drive the vehicles off.

As also mentioned those shipping containers come in a range of options including Kh-35 type anti ship missiles and also various other anti ship missiles like Onyx/Yakhont, but also include UAVs with helicopters... which would be less useful for this vessel as it has its own helicopter deck, but would be interesting for Serna... which is really just a landing ship designed to operate from a much bigger ship with a bow ramp for loading and unloading vehicle.

http://roe.ru/eng/catalog/naval-systems/surface-ships-ships-and-boats/serna/

Edit:

Having had a look it might be related to the Project 21820E Dugong...

http://roe.ru/catalog/voenno-morskoy-flot/nadvodnye-korabli-suda-i-katera/proekt-21820e-dyugon/

Sorry, it is not in the English section...

It's more in the class of the old Polochny boats but with the nice addition of a helicopter pad. The Dyugon is basically an enlarged Serna with more capacity.

Well I guess you can say much the same of the 21810...

Mir wrote:It's more in the class of the old Polochny boats but with the nice addition of a helicopter pad. The Dyugon is basically an enlarged Serna with more capacity.

Well I guess you can say much the same of the 21810...

It definitely looks like something designed to be easily mass produced

Hull is bog standard, bridge and mast are more or less identical to Karakurt down to size (might as well be a copy) and rear section is lifted off Rubin-class (even uses same armoured speedboat)

Also, if loaded with Kalibr containers it could become pocket arsenal ship

It seems to be able to fit 12 shipping containers which​ would equal 48 Kalibr LACMs

Not a bad thing (or two) to have attached to a squadron of warships, keep corvettes and frigates fully loaded with anti-ship missiles and let these cargo boats rip at leisurely pace

Flexibility and efficiency

Helis and armored speedboats for the first wave, followed by amphibious vehicles or tanks deliverd directly to the beach. Nice for the Baltics and Black Sea.

It seems to be able to fit 12 shipping containers which​ would equal 48 Kalibr LACMs

Those cranes look extendible so it might be possible to stack the containers two high and then dump the empty containers overboard and then use missiles in containers underneath.

It certainly adds a lot of flexibility because they could be operated with a mother ship which is essentially just a cargo container ship with hundreds of containers... load them on a dozen of these little boats and send them closer to the target area to launch their missiles... with a Ka-52 on its rear and a couple of armed speed boats inside as well as its bow mounted 57mm gun it is pretty well protected, and the range of the missiles means it will be able to attack from a good standoff distance.

The only issue would have been that putting long range cruise missiles in standard shipping crates would have violated the INF treaty because there was no way you could prove all trucks and rail cars in your territory didn't have long range ground launched cruise missiles like the current 3,000km Kalibrs or the near future 5,000km range upgraded enlarged models.

But thanks to the US that issue is now gone so any missile is fine in those containers.

In fact instead of a dedicated mother ship that is a normal standard container ship, perhaps a large support ship with more suitable support equipment and ammo stores, but keep that stores ship supplied with suitable containers supplied by passing Russian container ships which could deliver mid ocean by simple crane transfer to the support ships which can then transfer them to these smaller vessels...

They would probably make cheap useful anti pirate ships because they could be used for transport and trade and yet be armed and equipped to hunt down any pirates nearby with their jet boats and helicopter or drones.

PapaDragon wrote:Also, if loaded with Kalibr containers it could become pocket arsenal ship

Arsenal ship need to be large. That's the whole point of it. Small doesn't cut it. Even if you replace Kalibr with Zircon.

RTN wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:Also, if loaded with Kalibr containers it could become pocket arsenal ship

Arsenal ship need to be large. That's the whole point of it. Small doesn't cut it. Even if you replace Kalibr with Zircon.

Putting all your eggs in one basket is stupid. I rather have 10 small ships like this with 10 kalibr each than one big with 100.

But you have to "impress" your enemies with their "my button is bigger" attitude - so size does matter

Regarding size. As the Kirov emerged the western commentators declared that western navies wouldn´t build cruisers with that size. 10 smaller frigates are better (egg and basket thing). As the Rogov (first design) emerged the same commentators stated that it was a "pocket-Tarawa" and that the much bigger american ships are way better...

It seems that west can´t do anything wrong.

Hole wrote:Regarding size. As the Kirov emerged the western commentators declared that western navies wouldn´t build cruisers with that size. 10 smaller frigates are better (egg and basket thing). As the Rogov (first design) emerged the same commentators stated that it was a "pocket-Tarawa" and that the much bigger american ships are way better...
It seems that west can´t do anything wrong.

Well, that vastly depends on the source you are listening to.
Most of that sabre-rattling came from fanboys of the sides.
And not the smart ones, because one can be a fanboy, still keep the sane mind there.
None of them is capable to make an objective statement, because first of all, they know shit, and the second they are so devoted to one side that hardly sees any position of the other.
You have people who are claiming that RuN is capable to deal with USN in open ocean warfare, which is an obvious joke.
On the other hand, you have the guys who claim that RuN will do shit to the Muricans, as they are the best which is an obvious joke as well.
There is hardly a point to argue with them at any matter.
The best source to judge the real stand and condition of the sides is to listen to what the professionals have to say.
And I do not mean talking heads as professionals.
For example, Congress commissions are extremely valuable for that matter, because this is where steroid amateurs with political bias of The Great Murica shit clash with professionals, who are to deal with their idiocy when shit hit the fan for real.
The last time I have heard, an acting USN admiral openly stated, that the state and complexity of the Russian coastal warfare system make the Russian shore actually impossible to break through for landing operations. Cited it as an extreme example of the highest effectiveness of costal denial strategy, assured with minimal assets applied.
The other time, commenting on the idiocy about no-fly-zones in Syria, the other general of USAF stated, that they can do shit for that matter, because first of all, it requires going for war with Russia, and is hardly a military, but a political decision. And on the other hand, the Russian contingent is so extremely well covered by ECM measures, that they know shit what is really going on there.
The third time, it was a Costal Guard admiral who told the congressmen to go and blow themselves rather than executing an order of parading through Northern Sea Route with the only existing ancient icebreaker America has at its disposal. He said that openly, that with the state and capabilities of this rusty basket, they would have to ask Russkies for help halfway down the rote, if lucky
He was fired for that, by the way
Never heard a Russian general laughing at America's potency.
The only thing they are saying openly is the fact that they are not in the 90s-00s anymore, so the American side must behave accordingly.
For example, GTFO when asked kindly.