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ArgentinaGuard
VARGR198
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ucmvulcan
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Isos
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Walther von Oldenburg
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    Fate of Western Ukraine after the SMO

    Walther von Oldenburg
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    Post  Walther von Oldenburg Sat Dec 16, 2023 8:17 pm

    What do you think should be done to Western Ukraine after successful conclusion of the SMO?

    Share your opinions.

    I propose moving several mln Russians there so that the area is at least 50% Russian. This will be aided by the fact that the most anti Russian part of the population will likely leave the country on it's own.


    Last edited by Walther von Oldenburg on Sat Dec 16, 2023 8:29 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    SeigSoloyvov
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Sat Dec 16, 2023 8:24 pm

    The only choice is subjugation.

    Too many have been killed, too much hate, and more has spread.

    One has to realize justified or not, Ukraine will only see itself as being mercilessly attacked, they have lost many brothers, sons and all. That will never forgive Russia for this. That hate will spread like a disease and one way or another it will lash out. It will be hatred stronger then that of even the nazi's

    Then you have the risk of NATO turning it into a platform.

    There is no other choices, far to much has already happened. All of it needs to be taken.

    There is to much risk to much, if I was a Russian General that would be my view.

    We must take it all now while we can and work to prevent a future catastrophe while we can, this concern the very security of the Federation and I would make it dam clear to Putin.

    I do not care about how you want to be seen, what I care about is ensuring what must be done shall be done for the peace and security of the people we serve that is our mission not what legacy we wish to leave behind. The trust is gone and this is the only logical and rational option.

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    Rodion_Romanovic
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Sat Dec 16, 2023 9:02 pm

    I already expressed my opinion several times.

    Either part of the russian federation like any other oblast or republic, or a controlled territory with limited autonomy, like Puerto Rico, but managed by some governors from Russia (and possibly to be integrated in Russia proper in a certain period of time).

    It is not possible to allow a "neutral" state to emerge, because it will not be neutral and it will be used by Russia enemies to create problems.

    Furthermore all of Northwestern ucraine Borders Bielorussia and could create problems for it.

    Finally, the direct land connection to many central and east European countries (including the the only sane man left, Hungary, is very useful).

    As far as the antirussian population, many have already left and it is not guaranteed that they will be allowed back. The others can be offered the option of remaining in a multiethnic country (which will have russian as main state language but each oblast of republic will be allowed to have additional recognised regional languages, like Malorussian ot even Hungarian and Rumanian in Carpathian Rus), or leave the country if they do not like it (as long as they were not responsible of war crimes).

    Furthermore most of the population had not been antirussian forever, they have been manipulated and peer pressured for many years into becoming so. It is not easy but in a generation or two this can be reversed.

    Poland should be more worried in case a few millions Antirussians Ukrainians will stay there after the war.
    Afterwards Galicians hate Poland almost as much as they hate Russia.

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    Isos
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    Post  Isos Sat Dec 16, 2023 9:09 pm

    Just like before the war, a corrupted country that produces not much, but with a smaller territory.

    Even if they win the war and take back the territories they lost they will never recover without russian help.

    EU/Nato will turn their eyes the other way no matter the ending, already happened with gaza war.

    People will revolt and put a pro russian guy. 10 years later same shit they will beleive dumb US promesses and put a pro UE anti russian guy...

    No bright future anyway.

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sun Dec 17, 2023 4:11 am

    I would suggest Minsk 3 except instead of Eastern regions getting autonomy but with Ukrainian soldiers manning the border with Russia, how about the same for western areas of Ukraine.

    Ban western culture and speaking English, give them autonomy but control their borders with the west and limit what can come in and go out... take over their nuclear power stations, but otherwise leave them to it with no ties to EU or HATO allowed... essentially what they would have done to the Donbass and Lugansk if given half a chance.

    I rather suspect most nazis and American stooges will flee to the west because the alternative is to be tracked down and arrested and face trial for their crimes and Russia has been keeping everything and recording information...

    Once they go the remainder can create their own new state.
    lancelot
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    Post  lancelot Sun Dec 17, 2023 5:11 am

    Galicia should be made into a republic of the Russian Federation with limited autonomy.
    The rest of Ukraine should just be directly annexed into the Russian Federation.

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    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Sun Dec 17, 2023 6:54 am

    Walther von Oldenburg wrote:What do you think should be done to Western Ukraine after successful conclusion of the SMO?
    ....

    Firing range for drones

    Turn the whole shothole into white Gaza and keep it that way for several decades until there's nothing there walking on two legs




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    nomadski
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    Post  nomadski Sun Dec 17, 2023 7:55 am

    At some stage , the fighting will stop . Then the fate of this region will be decided by political and economic factors . I know about the prevailing political ideology of Ukrainians , tending towards white racism and Nazism . This is similar to white European ideology , and the two will make happy bedfellows , for a time . From economic POV , I am not sure Ukraine will have a good future . Western Ukraine , I am told , is resource poor and the Americans are already showing signs of withdrawing economic support . The EU , unlikely to subsidise long term , at the same levels . Therefore likely a basket case .





    Last edited by nomadski on Sun Dec 17, 2023 8:02 am; edited 1 time in total
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sun Dec 17, 2023 8:01 am

    Firing range for drones

    Turn the whole shothole into white Gaza and keep it that way for several decades until there's nothing there walking on two legs

    Sounds harsh, but look at history... the US military butchered Saddams army as it retreated from Kuwait.

    If the roles had been reversed recently in Afghanistan there is no way in hell the US would have let the Taliban withdraw and leave the battlefield.

    The US has multiple open firing ranges for drones operating all the time around the world... including Syria and Pakistan.

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    ucmvulcan
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    Post  ucmvulcan Tue Dec 19, 2023 4:39 am

    GarryB wrote:
    Firing range for drones

    Turn the whole shothole into white Gaza and keep it that way for several decades until there's nothing there walking on two legs

    Sounds harsh, but look at history... the US military butchered Saddams army as it retreated from Kuwait.

    If the roles had been reversed recently in Afghanistan there is no way in hell the US would have let the Taliban withdraw and leave the battlefield.

    The US has multiple open firing ranges for drones operating all the time around the world... including Syria and Pakistan.

    Galicia becomes a NATO protectorate. I just can't see a scenario where NATO succumbs to sanity. Meanwhile, a pro Russian landlocked state that is constantly the target of Ukrainian bombs and drones gets established around Kiev and is strictly neutral, I wouldn't want to visit the psycho rump state of Galicia Ukraine and the neutral state would be the most miserable place on earth outside the Middle East and shining examples of American success such as Afghanistan. Sumy, Kharkov, Odessa, and everything east of the Dniepr becomes Russia and they flourish.

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    Big_Gazza
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    Post  Big_Gazza Tue Dec 19, 2023 9:52 am

    The future of Lvov... and all degenerate Bandera shitholes.

    Fate of Western Ukraine after the SMO Grozny10

    The pic is from Grozny, but unlike that city which was completely rebuilt (as Russia redeemed Chechnyas people from the horrors of its nationalist nutjobs and their fellow-traveller foreign Wahhabis) the epicenter of Ukropi Nazism will be sown with salt and preserved as a reminder of why Russia must be eternally vigilent. attack

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    Post  ALAMO Tue Dec 19, 2023 10:03 am

    ucmvulcan wrote:
    Galicia becomes a NATO protectorate.   

    That would have been the optimal solution from the Russian perspective. That is why Putin was actively encouraging Poland, Slovakia, Hungary and Romania to bite off some parts of the cake while partitioned.
    Any Ukro/Galicia/Whatever subject s NATO protectorate would automatically lower the risk of being used as a ram. One carries responsibilities for its protectorates. That is why Sweden and Finland being de iure NATO members is much safer for Russia rather than both being members de facto.

    Edit : and to understand that, it is just enough to listen carefully what Putin is saying, at any given occasion. Here is a summary of his latest :

    ➡Russia was the sole guarantor of Ukraine's sovereignty and territorial integrity.

    ➡Many residents in western Ukraine wish to return those territories to Poland, Romania, or Hungary.

    ➡Russia won't obstruct the resolution of territorial disputes in western Ukraine, letting history take its course, but won't give away its own.

    It is enjoy your meal.

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    VARGR198
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    Post  VARGR198 Tue Dec 19, 2023 3:41 pm


    Duran believes Ukraine will lose the entire south coast, everything east of the Dieper, completely demilitarised with all equipment handed over to Russia, War criminals handed over.  EU/US will make an "in exile" puppet regime and pretend its the real government

    Possible with the "in exile" gov Russia may just incorporate all of Ukraine except for Lviv


    Last edited by VARGR198 on Tue Dec 19, 2023 3:51 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Isos
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    Post  Isos Tue Dec 19, 2023 3:49 pm

    Puppet government are expensive. Now they just forget them like the clown in Venezuela Guaido or the syrian opposition.

    It's not the 70s anymore, they don't have money left for such dumb shit. They need to pay all their stuff to China. They use them like whores, if it works it works, if not they move on on something else (Lybia to Syria to Venezuela to Ukraine to Israel to something else tomorrow in mater of 10 years.).

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    Post  ArgentinaGuard Mon Dec 25, 2023 5:25 pm

    The only thing I ask of you is that you do not bring those stupid anti-Russian people to Argentina.


    Last edited by ArgentinaGuard on Mon Dec 25, 2023 5:35 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Post  ArgentinaGuard Mon Dec 25, 2023 5:30 pm

    Isos wrote:Puppet government are expensive. Now they just forget them like the clown in Venezuela Guaido or the syrian opposition.

    It's not the 70s anymore, they don't have money left for such dumb shit. They need to pay all their stuff to China. They use them like whores, if it works it works, if not they move on on something else (Lybia to Syria to Venezuela to Ukraine to Israel to something else tomorrow in mater of 10 years.).

    The war in Ukraine defines the geopolitics of the new century. I don't think it's the same as Venezuela or Syria. The Ukraine thing was much more important and they are about to lose.

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    Hole
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    Post  Hole Mon Dec 25, 2023 8:04 pm

    letting history take its course, but won't give away its own.
    The history is called WWII and those lost territories for Romania and Hungary were paid for with the lives of millions of Russians.
    Because those countries were allies of Hitler.

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    Isos
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    Post  Isos Mon Dec 25, 2023 8:13 pm

    ArgentinaGuard wrote:
    Isos wrote:Puppet government are expensive. Now they just forget them like the clown in Venezuela Guaido or the syrian opposition.

    It's not the 70s anymore, they don't have money left for such dumb shit. They need to pay all their stuff to China. They use them like whores, if it works it works, if not they move on on something else (Lybia to Syria to Venezuela to Ukraine to Israel to something else tomorrow in mater of 10 years.).

    The war in Ukraine defines the geopolitics of the new century. I don't think it's the same as Venezuela or Syria. The Ukraine thing was much more important and they are about to lose.

    More important because Russia will get closer to EU geogrphically speaking and will get 30 million people more.

    Thry also lost their biggest gas/petrol provider. I guess they really bet Putin will be removed and they lost the bet.

    One thing is sure, they never thought an ukro military victory was possible.

    Now reality is they sent all russian natural ressources to China and India, US is reelecting Trump, EU is shrinking.

    My bet is in 6 to 12 months you will see Macron, sholtz and the crazy Ursula will go lick Putin's boots because paying 3 euro a coffee and 2 euro a bread isn't a long term solution for the normal europeans.

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    Big_Gazza
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    Post  Big_Gazza Tue Dec 26, 2023 1:36 am

    Hole wrote:
    letting history take its course, but won't give away its own.
    The history is called WWII and those lost territories for Romania and Hungary were paid for with the lives of millions of Russians.
    Because those countries were allies of Hitler.


    People seem to forget that it was the Romanians on the flanks of Stalingrad that were cut thru by the Red Army leading to the encirclement and ultimate destruction of the German 6th army in the city. The Romanians were stalwart allies of the Nazis, as were the Bulgarians, Croats, Slovaks, and Hungarians. There is a price to be paid for fighting and losing a genocidal war...

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Tue Dec 26, 2023 2:30 am

    The only thing I ask of you is that you do not bring those stupid anti-Russian people to Argentina.

    I rather suspect they will be going through the national websites of EU countries looking for the country that gives the most generous handouts...

    My bet is in 6 to 12 months you will see Macron, sholtz and the crazy Ursula will go lick Putin's boots because paying 3 euro a coffee and 2 euro a bread isn't a long term solution for the normal europeans.

    Their problem is that while Putin is a pragmatist he is also very human and I very much suspect he takes personally every Russian soldiers life lost in this completely unnecessary war and so there wont be kisses and make up and everything will go back the way it was.

    Russia has had to pivot away from the west to survive and protect itself from economic and political attacks from the west and I can't see the end of the conflict in the Ukraine wiping that away and creating a clean slate.

    The EU can buy normal volumes of gas and oil from Russia, or it can try to because Russia has shifted supply to other countries that don't try to murder Russians, so the EU can be sold any excess amounts they have left over, but I don't see them spending a lot of money to supply cheap energy to the EU.

    Lets be realistic... if the EU drops all its sanctions on Russia after the conflict is over I would suggest a large number of people and companies in Europe would want partnerships with Russia and Russians or perhaps even to move to Russia to work because the energy is cheap and reliable and the economy is growing and tax is not so harsh because they are not repaying enormous debts that have accumulated supporting Kiev.

    I would say after the conflict ends and the sanctions are dropped the EU is going to put restrictions on trade with Russia because EU companies wont be able to compete in terms of food production and energy etc etc and a range of other areas. The cheap raw materials that Russia fed to make the EU economy work will be going to other countries or being used locally to create the finished products the west used to sell to Russia at inflated prices.

    The west is making itself redundant.

    People seem to forget that it was the Romanians on the flanks of Stalingrad that were cut thru by the Red Army leading to the encirclement and ultimate destruction of the German 6th army in the city. The Romanians were stalwart allies of the Nazis, as were the Bulgarians, Croats, Slovaks, and Hungarians. There is a price to be paid for fighting and losing a genocidal war...

    That reminds me of the west and even the West Germans themselves whining at the treatment of the German population after the war... perhaps if the German people surrendered and let the Soviets walk in and change flags in major cities then they might treat the people a bit better, but the German soldiers fought to the last... the Soviets lost something like 600K men taking Berlin... if you want to be treated well stop fighting back and reduce the number of Soviets you have murdered in this war you started.

    It is relevant to this thread because the Orcs think they can fight forever killing Russian soldiers and civilians and then at some stage when peace talks start they can make demands because the US and EU are in their corner?

    Minsk laid out a deal and they didn't enact their part in the deal, same with Minsk 2, then this conflict started and they agreed a peace deal and then boris the cocksucker rode in and told them they can win with HATO and EU support and get everything back including the Crimea, and so they reneged that deal too... the longer they fight the worse the deal they will get... let that sink in... keep fighting for another ten years and the deal wont get better it will get worse... and the suffering of your people will get worse...

    When the nazis start leaving the country the normal people will be better able to get more control and perhaps can eliminate some of the people blocking common sense from prevailing and then peace talks can start.

    As the truth comes out... as it inevitably it will, Merkel and Holland have already admitted the plan all along was for Kiev to take its regions back by force, which suggests the neutral defensive only HATO plan was for Ukrainians with western uber weapons were going to beat Russia on the battlefield and the political and economic cost of that loss was going to get Putin kicked out of office to destroy Russias chances of developing and growing and it would just become what the Ukraine was with the west raping it of resources and materials, like they did to Russia in the 1990s.

    The only thing I ask of you is that you do not bring those stupid anti-Russian people to Argentina.

    And if they do go, keep an eye on them and Russia will send a few groups to collect them to stand trial in the new Russian statelets they left... Smile

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    ArgentinaGuard


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    Post  ArgentinaGuard Wed Dec 27, 2023 1:27 am

    GarryB wrote:
    The only thing I ask of you is that you do not bring those stupid anti-Russian people to Argentina.

    I rather suspect they will be going through the national websites of EU countries looking for the country that gives the most generous handouts...

    My bet is in 6 to 12 months you will see Macron, sholtz and the crazy Ursula will go lick Putin's boots because paying 3 euro a coffee and 2 euro a bread isn't a long term solution for the normal europeans.

    Their problem is that while Putin is a pragmatist he is also very human and I very much suspect he takes personally every Russian soldiers life lost in this completely unnecessary war and so there wont be kisses and make up and everything will go back the way it was.

    Russia has had to pivot away from the west to survive and protect itself from economic and political attacks from the west and I can't see the end of the conflict in the Ukraine wiping that away and creating a clean slate.

    The EU can buy normal volumes of gas and oil from Russia, or it can try to because Russia has shifted supply to other countries that don't try to murder Russians, so the EU can be sold any excess amounts they have left over, but I don't see them spending a lot of money to supply cheap energy to the EU.

    Lets be realistic... if the EU drops all its sanctions on Russia after the conflict is over I would suggest a large number of people and companies in Europe would want partnerships with Russia and Russians or perhaps even to move to Russia to work because the energy is cheap and reliable and the economy is growing and tax is not so harsh because they are not repaying enormous debts that have accumulated supporting Kiev.

    I would say after the conflict ends and the sanctions are dropped the EU is going to put restrictions on trade with Russia because EU companies wont be able to compete in terms of food production and energy etc etc and a range of other areas. The cheap raw materials that Russia fed to make the EU economy work will be going to other countries or being used locally to create the finished products the west used to sell to Russia at inflated prices.

    The west is making itself redundant.

    People seem to forget that it was the Romanians on the flanks of Stalingrad that were cut thru by the Red Army leading to the encirclement and ultimate destruction of the German 6th army in the city. The Romanians were stalwart allies of the Nazis, as were the Bulgarians, Croats, Slovaks, and Hungarians. There is a price to be paid for fighting and losing a genocidal war...

    That reminds me of the west and even the West Germans themselves whining at the treatment of the German population after the war... perhaps if the German people surrendered and let the Soviets walk in and change flags in major cities then they might treat the people a bit better, but the German soldiers fought to the last... the Soviets lost something like 600K men taking Berlin... if you want to be treated well stop fighting back and reduce the number of Soviets you have murdered in this war you started.

    It is relevant to this thread because the Orcs think they can fight forever killing Russian soldiers and civilians and then at some stage when peace talks start they can make demands because the US and EU are in their corner?

    Minsk laid out a deal and they didn't enact their part in the deal, same with Minsk 2, then this conflict started and they agreed a peace deal and then boris the cocksucker rode in and told them they can win with HATO and EU support and get everything back including the Crimea, and so they reneged that deal too... the longer they fight the worse the deal they will get... let that sink in... keep fighting for another ten years and the deal wont get better it will get worse... and the suffering of your people will get worse...

    When the nazis start leaving the country the normal people will be better able to get more control and perhaps can eliminate some of the people blocking common sense from prevailing and then peace talks can start.

    As the truth comes out... as it inevitably it will, Merkel and Holland have already admitted the plan all along was for Kiev to take its regions back by force, which suggests the neutral defensive only HATO plan was for Ukrainians with western uber weapons were going to beat Russia on the battlefield and the political and economic cost of that loss was going to get Putin kicked out of office to destroy Russias chances of developing and growing and it would just become what the Ukraine was with the west raping it of resources and materials, like they did to Russia in the 1990s.

    The only thing I ask of you is that you do not bring those stupid anti-Russian people to Argentina.

    And if they do go, keep an eye on them and Russia will send a few groups to collect them to stand trial in the new Russian statelets they left...  Smile

    The Ukrainians have to go to New Zealand, Garry.
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    Post  Walther von Oldenburg Fri Dec 29, 2023 5:28 pm

    Wanna talk about this but don't want to open another topic.

    After the war Ukraine will be left with some 25-30 mln people.

    What would you do to revitalize Ukraine demographically? Which groups of people (from outside Russia) can be brought to Ukraine in order to bring it's population back to 51 mln it had in 1991?

    My ideas?
    - Afrikaners from South Africa
    - Copts from Egypt
    - Vietnamese

    What other pro Russian nationalities would be willing to settle in Ukraine?
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Fri Dec 29, 2023 6:37 pm

    Walther von Oldenburg wrote:Wanna talk about this but don't want to open another topic.

    After the war Ukraine will be left with some 25-30 mln people.

    What would you do to revitalize Ukraine demographically? Which groups of people (from outside Russia) can be brought to Ukraine in order to bring it's population back to 51 mln it had in 1991?

    My ideas?
    - Afrikaners from South Africa
    - Copts from Egypt
    - Vietnamese

    What other pro Russian nationalities would be willing to settle in Ukraine?

    The best way and in general to be done across Russia, (not only in Malorossia, Novorossia and Krasnaya Rus) is to help families and try to incentivate childbirth and de-incentivate abortion. Furthermore try to  "advertise" traditional values. A woman cannot work full time and care at a large family at the same time.
    Having women avoiding kids until their late thirties is also not a solution.

    There is the need to reject a lot of the fake "values" that were imposed also in the west since at least 1968.

    Also divorce law must not be a way to get richer for a woman.

    It is important that women have nowadays more chances and freedom and opportunities to study than in the past centuries, but what they obtained now is more like a slavery of work and unhappiness.

    Concerning family and childbirth, in Italy during fascism there was (only for men) an additional tax for unmarried men (my grandfather had to pay it for a long time since he married only at 42 (but thr woman who later became my grandmother was much younger).

    I do not believe that this is a solution, but additional monetary help for each kids until end of high school and tax reduction can

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    Post  GarryB Fri Dec 29, 2023 10:28 pm


    The Ukrainians have to go to New Zealand, Garry.


    Boris torpedoed the peace deal Kiev was about to sign a few months after it started so let them all go to the UK and live with Boris.

    Most foreigners coming to New Zealand end up moving to Australia anyway.


    What would you do to revitalize Ukraine demographically? Which groups of people (from outside Russia) can be brought to Ukraine in order to bring it's population back to 51 mln it had in 1991?

    Why does it need more people?

    I would say it needs less... have a referendum on Stepan Bandera and all the people who don't hate him should be deported to the EU. It is OK... they are white... it will be fine.

    Who will notice more nazis there anyway?

    What other pro Russian nationalities would be willing to settle in Ukraine?

    It would have a slightly more mild climate than many regions of Russia... perhaps offer free land to Russians from the Baltic states if they want to leave those hell holes... many of course will be pensioners, but that is OK too.

    No need to artificially boost numbers there... it will grow over time.

    A woman cannot work full time and care at a large family at the same time.

    Keeping the cost of living low and wages relatively high will enable people to have families and enjoy a comfortable lifestyle too.

    Social engineering is normal in the west... we don't even notice it now... but such tools can be used to reverse things as well.
    Walther von Oldenburg
    Walther von Oldenburg


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    Fate of Western Ukraine after the SMO Empty Re: Fate of Western Ukraine after the SMO

    Post  Walther von Oldenburg Thu Jan 18, 2024 8:30 pm

    I wonder

    Will Russia keep Ukrainian language schools after the war?

    In Soviet times education was divided 50/50 between Russian language and Ukrainian language schools. Do you think it makes sense to keep a similar ratio in Russian Ukraine?

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    Fate of Western Ukraine after the SMO Empty Re: Fate of Western Ukraine after the SMO

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