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    Global warming

    kvs
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    Post  kvs Thu Aug 12, 2021 3:37 pm

    Global warming is being used as a racket by the western elites to saddle the planet with a tribute yoke. Carbon taxes and
    forced conversion to alt-energy are a scam to extort money from the world. Reducing CO2 is just a side effect of the
    primary objective. The western deciders expect to both set global CO2 emissions policy and at the same time sell the
    overpriced technology to "fix" the problem. This is classic colonial mercantilism.

    We see this already with the coercion against Russian Arctic shipping in the name of saving the polar bears from pollution.
    Russia is responding by deploying LNG powered ships, but the suppression of north sea route shipping is still potent since
    other countries cannot afford to "green" their ships. The relevant point is that Canada, the USA and U-rope never once
    attempted to deploy LNG powered ships in the Arctic but declare the right to dictate pollution controls on every other
    country.

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    kvs
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    Post  kvs Sat Aug 14, 2021 9:42 pm



    Surprisingly balanced report focusing on the real sources of the Siberian fires instead of trotting out malcontents
    trying to blame them on Putin.

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    Airbornewolf
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    Post  Airbornewolf Thu Aug 26, 2021 3:38 am

    The Earth will move on, the only question is if it moves with us included.

    The Earth survived tropical and ice-age conditions, it moves back and forth trough history.
    This whole "ecology emergency"is bullshit. the earth is going trough its next fase like it has gone trough in history.

    The only question if we are along for the ride.

    Look, i am not the hippie-type.
    sometimes for progress you need to bash a tree.

    But, it is just we can not be we turn our planet in an big paved parking lot.

    I look for humanity's progress in science of the stars in the sky themselves.
    Like fusion power developed at ITER. The new developments at CERN.
    I do not want to wreck our planet in the process.

    Instead of now facilitating logistics in war.
    I write software to manage logistic demands in the civilian sector.

    Destroying is easy, creating is difficult,
    It would not harm anyone of we look back on our fellow occupants on this earth every now and then.

    kvs
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    Post  kvs Thu Aug 26, 2021 6:01 am

    For sure the Earth will move on. And also everything is natural by definition, including humanity's civilization and technology.
    But unfortunately humanity lacks the collective wisdom to make the right choices. We just have rotten elites leading around
    the masses by the nose. These elites are not stellar intellects and their whole existence revolves around securing power and
    promoting business as usual. They are responsible for driving the CO2 accumulation thanks to squandering of precious fossil
    fuel resources and the ensuing consequences.

    I think it is unlikely that fusion will ride in to save the day. The question also arises as to what is wrong with fission power?
    If we as humans are serious about alternatives to fossil fuels, then we should have cranked up nuclear power from the 1970s.
    Instead we had the biggest CO2 emitter, the USA, putting this industry in a coma. Even if fusion arrives in 30 years, we have
    locked in enough warming (through release of cryosphere CH4) that global civilization is screwed. Maybe cheap fusion energy
    will allow some sort of terraforming effort but the scale is vast. It is unlikely that we will see this sort of technological effort
    in the middle of a global economic collapse resulting from agricultural and invested infrastructure (which runs on fossil fuels)
    collapse.



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    Post  PapaDragon Thu Aug 26, 2021 4:02 pm


    Global warming is definitely a real thing and is man made but it's not unfixable

    Just planting some trees could do wonders but it has to be done on a scale that no volunteers could pull off (plus the fact that environmentalists now are more concerned with posting on Twitter than environment doesn't help)

    Governments need to get on this and put the boot up the asses of large corporations, order them to start fixing the crap they cause



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    Post  AlfaT8 Sun Sep 05, 2021 3:02 am



    Why don't people recommend Nuclear energy, jeez. Rolling Eyes

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    kvs
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    Post  kvs Sun Sep 05, 2021 4:15 am

    Because there is mass fear of radiation in the west. I think Hollywood has a lot of responsibility. It has been pushing
    the mystical power of radiation since the 1950s. People now think that exposure to carcinogens, mutagens and teratogens
    is safer than radiation. We also have the inanity spread around that no dose is safe. If that was true, everyone in Iran
    would have died out a long time ago. The machinery associated with DNA involves self-repair. That is why two strands
    of RNA forming a double helix are significant. There are DNA repair enzymes that evolved in the face of background
    radiation since the dawn of time.

    If people care about DNA damage, then they need to broaden their minds and care about it being caused by chemicals.

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sun Sep 05, 2021 12:22 pm

    Why don't people recommend Nuclear energy, jeez.

    Because they don't have the necessary technology to make it clean like the Russians can without a lot of investment and money being spent.
    kvs
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    Post  kvs Sun Feb 13, 2022 4:58 pm

    https://phys.org/news/2021-02-d-insides-giant-permafrost-crater.html

    3-D model shows off the insides of a giant permafrost crater

    Global warming - Page 3 3dmodelshows

    Researchers from the Oil and Gas Research Institute of the Russian Academy of Sciences and their Skoltech colleagues have surveyed the newest known 30-meter deep gas blowout crater on the Yamal Peninsula, which formed in the summer of 2020. The paper was published in the journal Geosciences.

    Giant craters in the Russian Arctic, thought to be the remnants of powerful gas blowouts, first attracted worldwide attention in 2014, when the 20 to 40-meter wide Yamal Crater was found quite close to the Bovanenkovo gas field. The prevailing hypothesis is that these craters are formed after gas is accumulated in cavities in the upper layers of permafrost, and increasing pressure ultimately unleashes an explosive force. Most of these craters are rather short-lived as they apparently quickly fill with water over several years and turn into small lakes. As of now, there are some 20 known and studied craters.

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    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK Thu Aug 03, 2023 8:46 pm

    Due to this event, last year scientists were forecasting warmer weather ahead.

    Strange that no-one mentioned it during the 'Global Boiling' panic over the weather around the Med this year. Maybe it didn't fit the storyline.  Laughing

    Ryan Maue
    @RyanMaue
    Earlier in March 2023, scientists reported likelihood of warming from the volcanic injection of water vapor into the stratosphere pushing Earth closer to 1.5°C Paris Agreement threshold.

    Based upon the last few months, it seems the effect of 🌋on global temperatures may have been greatly underestimated.  

    It's straightforward how to run a radiative transfer model to determine the impacts of adding 150M metric tons of water to the stratosphere.  But, detailed climate model simulations are needed to disentangle the atmospheric circulation changes that lead to non-linear feedbacks.  

    The climate is "abnormal" right now, aside from the developing El Niño and background climate change.  

    Ryan Maue
    @RyanMaue
    Volcanic estimate 🌋📈

    Initial scientific estimates were 50-million metric tons of water injected into the stratosphere by Hunga Tonga-Hunga Ha'apai submarine volcano.

    Likely off by a factor of 3.

    New research suggests 150-million metric tons or almost 40 Trillion gallons of water vapor was injected into the upper-atmosphere.  

    A lot of it is still up there floating around.

    Global warming - Page 3 F1nNvtGWwAAeJBN?format=jpg&name=medium

    Global warming - Page 3 F1nGI0MXgAEXKL9?format=jpg&name=360x360


    The Hunga Tonga-Hunga Ha'apai Hydration of the Stratosphere
    L. Millán, M. L. Santee, A. Lambert, N. J. Livesey, F. Werner, M. J. Schwartz, H. C. Pumphrey, G. L. Manney, Y. Wang, H. Su, L. Wu, W. G. Read, L. Froidevaux
    First published: 01 July 2022
    https://doi.org/10.1029/2022GL099381
    Citations: 33
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    Abstract

    Following the 15 January 2022 Hunga Tonga-Hunga Ha'apai eruption, several trace gases measured by the Aura Microwave Limb Sounder (MLS) displayed anomalous stratospheric values. Trajectories and radiance simulations confirm that the H2O, SO2, and HCl enhancements were injected by the eruption. In comparison with those from previous eruptions, the SO2 and HCl mass injections were unexceptional, although they reached higher altitudes. In contrast, the H2O injection was unprecedented in both magnitude (far exceeding any previous values in the 17-year MLS record) and altitude (penetrating into the mesosphere). We estimate the mass of H2O injected into the stratosphere to be 146 ± 5 Tg, or ∼10% of the stratospheric burden. It may take several years for the H2O plume to dissipate. This eruption could impact climate not through surface cooling due to sulfate aerosols, but rather through surface warming due to the radiative forcing from the excess stratospheric H2O.
    Key Points

       Following the Hunga Tonga-Hunga Ha'apai eruption, the Aura Microwave Limb Sounder measured enhancements of stratospheric H2O, SO2, and HCl

       The mass of SO2 and HCl injected is comparable to that from prior eruptions, whereas the magnitude of the H2O injection is unprecedented

       Excess stratospheric H2O will persist for years, could affect stratospheric chemistry and dynamics, and may lead to surface warming

    Plain Language Summary

    The violent Hunga Tonga-Hunga Ha'apai eruption on 15 January 2022 not only injected ash into the stratosphere but also large amounts of water vapor, breaking all records for direct injection of water vapor, by a volcano or otherwise, in the satellite era. This is not surprising since the Hunga Tonga-Hunga Ha'apai caldera was formerly situated 150 m below sea level. The massive blast injected water vapor up to altitudes as high as 53 km. Using measurements from the Microwave Limb Sounder on NASA's Aura satellite, we estimate that the excess water vapor is equivalent to around 10% of the amount of water vapor typically residing in the stratosphere. Unlike previous strong eruptions, this event may not cool the surface, but rather it could potentially warm the surface due to the excess water vapor.

    https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1029/2022GL099381

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Fri Aug 04, 2023 4:34 am

    If you look at the temperature history of the earth over more than just a human lifespan things appear more ordered and regular...

    Global warming - Page 3 Global10

    The stars denote ice ages... ironically an ice age would be more of a problem... growing food in an ice age would be more difficult than during a hot period.


    Global warming - Page 3 Past-a10

    Seems to me that it appears to be self balancing, which is not to say we are going to be OK... it appears to get to a temperature and then something happens that removes the CO2 from the atmosphere and the temperatures gradually fall over a very long period and then jump up to a peak temperature again.

    Of course this appears to be a natural cycle that might be related to earths orbit or the solar systems orbit or the cycles of the sun or a dozen other cycles all having an influence... and there is no reason to believe humanity will certainly survive these changes... we have been releasing enormous amounts of carbon into the atmosphere... but then we have also done a lot of other shit too... like plastics dumped into the sea... wouldn't it be funny if the life in the sea was what saved the planet from runaway greenhouse effects like on Venus and our polluting and consuming the sea life prevents it from correcting the damage we have done... the dinosaurs reigned for a much longer period than we have been around for... perhaps the next dominant animal will do a better job... Twisted Evil
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    Post  Sujoy Fri Aug 04, 2023 11:28 am

    GarryB wrote:If you look at the temperature history of the earth over more than just a human lifespan things appear more ordered and regular...
    Global warming is an artificial phenomenon created by the US using a technology called High-frequency Active Auroral Research Program (HAARP). Willingly or unwillingly several countries across the world including China and India have collaborated.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Fri Aug 04, 2023 12:51 pm

    Hahahaha... the HAARP BS.... sorry dude, but if the US could control the weather they would... and they aren't.

    EM waves in the atmosphere to heat things up would require more power than the US generates a year.... in comparison a volcanic eruption can put more water and other material into the atmosphere than the human race has in a year.

    When I read about HAARP I think about all the other super shit they are supposed to have like the mach 6 Aurora... but then it is probably a mach 10 plane now... easy to change when it is all made up.

    It is how the US justifies its enormous defence budget... secret stuff is secret and it is expensive to keep it that way...
    Sujoy
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    Post  Sujoy Fri Aug 04, 2023 6:33 pm

    GarryB wrote:Hahahaha... the HAARP BS.... sorry dude, but if the US could control the weather they would... and they aren't.
    Trump went on record saying global warming is a hoax created by deep state.
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    Post  GarryB Sat Aug 05, 2023 6:29 am

    He did and he probably believes that.

    But was he saying that the temperature never changes or was he saying that powerful (rich) people were over hyping the problem so they could use the problem to to sell electric cars and get funding for fusion nuclear power and other BS stuff they want to push to the world.

    Some people in Nigeria probably couldn't give a crap about sea level rises or temperature increases when they struggle to get enough food for themselves and their families and to have access to housing and basic plumbing.

    I am sure the homeless in the US could care less about global warming BS too because the next really cold winter they might die of exposure anyway... or some idiots who don't like the homeless people hanging around their shops so they get them arrested for being too poor to afford their own house.

    America spends almost a trillion dollars a year to bomb countries and steal their resources but can't feed and house their own people... can't even provide healthcare for them... you would think healthcare, housing, and education would be basic human rights in the greatest democracy on the planet... but apparently not.

    Most of those homeless are mentally ill, or of low IQ but with no family or other support, while some could be just like you or I and made a mistake that cost them their job... maybe they got sick and their company fired them... no health insurance and those living from pay to pay could be kicked out of their apartments...

    There are stories about guys who got arrested for something and in the weeks it took to clear up they find someone else is in their apartment and what is left of their stuff that was put out on the street was probably taken away as rubbish... they probably lost their job too for not turning up to work for a couple of weeks... even if they were innocent.

    Living the American dream right there.

    Then of course there are the addicted... drugs, alcohol, gambling, petty crime, you have to lie to survive and not everyone is good at lying.

    Most of the people pushing global warming have something they want to sell or something they want to stop... ie stop oil... but of course the problem is that these people don't really think things through... OK if you stop oil... then what... how do your vehicles move, what about plastic products... where will they come from... what are you going to do with all those dead batteries in 10 years time.

    It is a bit like BREXIT... they decided what they wanted and how to get it, but never about what next... when you leave a market with hundreds of millions of customers... what do you do to replace it when they turn sour on you for leaving?

    Leaving was easy... most countries in the EU hate Brussels... most countries there is the big central region that thinks it is critical and nothing works without them... here in New Zealand that is Auckland... in the UK I would say it was London, but for the EU that is Brussels.

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    kvs
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    Post  kvs Sat Aug 05, 2023 1:20 pm

    Weather control is a one of the prime tinfoil hat conspiracy theory fixations. I have seen US military employees give talks at conferences
    about using data assimilation techniques to try to figure out how to nudge the weather where you want it to go. This involves weather
    models and observational data and invokes the sensitivity to initial conditions of nonlinear dynamical systems. This approach also would
    enable structured modification within some limited scope. Of course, the perturbation that they want to quantify still requires enormous
    energy to generate. But the US and its military is not above using nukes to achieve its ambitions.

    Just because the US military pays people to research the subject of weather "control", it does not imply that there is deployed technology
    to do this. There is a type of primitive worship of US tech which is gives it magical powers. The tinfoil hat believers are not more clued in
    than the average prole.

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    Post  JohninMK Wed Aug 09, 2023 6:14 pm

    The story getting wider circulation.

    It seems to me this is nature accidentally ensuring that the man made climate change forecasts come true. Expect all those scientists to incorporate it in their figures in 1 2 3 ............................................

    Or they ignore it and claim victory Laughing

    https://www.zerohedge.com/weather/tonga-volcano-eruption-set-warm-earth

    https://twitter.com/RyanMaue/status/1688751117855842304
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    Post  kvs Wed Aug 09, 2023 6:32 pm

    This volcano water effect is not that surprising. Polar stratospheric clouds formed by moisture injection the tropics have a literal
    greenhouse effect as in real greenhouses. During the Eocene they are hypothesized to have maintained the warm temperatures
    in the Arctic that allowed reptiles to live there and for trees to grow.

    The vast majority of water in the atmosphere is confined to the troposphere. The stratosphere is bone dry with H2O vapour concentrations
    of around 3 ppmv with a large fraction coming from CH4 oxidation. The tropical tropopause where the circulation transports mass from
    the troposphere to the stratosphere has temperatures around 190 K and regionally down to 185 K. This acts as a freeze-drying barrier
    for water transport. But there is a short circuit through the subtropical flanks of the tropopause where H2O can bleed in but is confined
    to stay in the lowermost stratosphere below 16 km (it hugs the tropopause and flows towards the poles). Warming results in more of
    this leakage and then creates an H2O "glass" lid on the troposphere. Condensation removal does not scale up to maintain 3 ppmv
    H2O concentrations.

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    Post  higurashihougi Wed Aug 09, 2023 9:03 pm

    https://socialistalternative.ca/blog/2023/07/26/green-corporate-welfare-bums/?fbclid=IwAR1fguPfri7MhWVLxSyxYVmJxGxrlEP75S8dYoYTSAWtWCbSjuttedJ_8Ho

    Abbreviation:

    EV - Electric Vehicle

    VW - Volkswagen

    In April VW announced it will invest $7 billion of its money to build a massive factory in St. Thomas, in southwestern Ontario, to profitably manufacture batteries for electric vehicles (EV). In addition, it will receive $13 billion over the next decade from the federal government, with the Ontario government throwing in another $500 million in “direct incentives.”

    Stellantis, which had got in ahead of VW in terms of getting subsidies from the Federal and Provincial governments. [...] Before VW had inked its deal, Stellantis had partnered with LGES to announce Ontario’s first major EV battery plant, in March 2022. This represented the largest automotive manufacturing investment in the history of the province. It’s located in Windsor, 193 kilometres west of the VW plant. Unlike VW, it will employ a unionized workforce. And the project goes under the name of NextStar Energy.

    Stellantis threatens

    At the time, Ottawa and Ontario were going to contribute $500 million each towards construction costs of the Windsor plant but tensions emerged a few months later in August 2022, when the US government passed the Inflation Reduction Act (IRA), which includes a massive package of clean-tech incentives (bribes) for companies. The IRA radically changed the level of incentives needed to attract an automaker to build a battery plant. By March this year, a deal had already been signed that would see VW get up to $13 billion in production subsidies for the planned plant in St. Thomas. Understandably, NextStar wanted a similar agreement to continue with their plant, already started, in Windsor. In early May, they abruptly stopped construction. They were understandably going to try to get more subsidies as up to then they were getting $1 billion compared to VW’s $13.5 billion.

    And it was a demand that had some heft to it; there was even an element of blackmail involved. If they didn’t get what they wanted, NextStar threatened to abandon Windsor altogether and move the plant elsewhere. It was not an idle threat, and it wasn’t just the Windsor plant that was at risk, but also Stellantis’s plant in Brampton too. Seven weeks after the threat was first made, the province agreed to provide $5 billion in tax breaks with the other $10 billion coming from Ottawa.

    VW gets $13.5 billion and now NextStar is getting $15 billion — a whopping $28.5 billion! And nothing for the taxpayer, no shares, no controls, no long-term guarantees.

    EVs — the silver bullet?

    EVs and their batteries are no panacea for climate change. Using government subsidies to produce them might make more sense than, say, carbon capture projects but in the timescale that scientists estimate for an effective fight against global warming, they will not play the role that is needed. An EV, like its internal combustion counterpart, is still a metal box, made from aluminum or steel. Making a tonne of aluminum emits more carbon than burning five tonnes of oil. Socialist Alternative explained some of the problems with EVs: the cost, problems with battery technology, exploitation of workers in the developing world for minerals used in battery production, and continuing the car-based infrastructure of highways, sprawl, and busy urban roads. Electric vehicles still use rubber tires and as they wear, they will continue to release particulates. A study from the UK shows that particulate emissions that are damaging to health are 1,000 times higher from tire-wear than from tailpipe emissions. The heavier the vehicle, the greater the emissions, so as manufacturers increase the range between charges with heavier batteries, particulate emissions will increase.

    Congestion

    Alongside emissions that cause climate change and damage health, there is also the damage of congestion and land use by cars in cities. If the number of cars remains the same, whether electric or gas-powered, the amount of land given over to cars and congestion remain the same.

    Free public transit has an important role in tackling climate change and other harms from pollution, but it’s not a great advance if buses are held up in traffic by the same number of cars driving around. The cost of free public transit is small compared to the recently-agreed battery subsidies. Revenues from the transit farebox in the three biggest Canadian cities amount to $1.86 billion. That’s a mere 15 percent of $28.5 billion going to VW/NextStar. The other 85 percent from the VW/NextStar pot could be used to make more dedicated cycle lanes, purchase more electric buses, pedestrianize more zones in urban areas and build/extend subway lines in the larger cities.

    Technological change

    Both plants are planned to produce liquid electrolyte, lithium-ion batteries. There are multiple problems with lithium. The raw material is environmentally damaging to extract and refine. As with all raw materials, prices will fluctuate. Lithium is selling at roughly four times the price it was in 2020. Its price is likely to further increase as demand for batteries to store electricity increases. Lithium-ion batteries can catch fire and are also heavy.

    All these factors will push the development of new battery technologies. Already, research is frantically going into solid state batteries (rather than liquid electrolyte), use of other metals and other technical changes.

    It is not unforeseeable that in 10 years these plants will be obsolete. And Canada will have no say in their future.

    Accountable money

    For the $28.5 billion, the people of Ontario and Canada have no control over its use. No capitalist would give away that sort of money. At the very least the government should have insisted on decision-making shares.

    With these two gifts totalling $28.5 billion, the Ontario and federal governments have created a precedent that probably other companies, with some “green” investment claims, will be looking at, wondering how they can get a similar handout. It will be hard for Ottawa to say no to some other scam from another part of Canada, without risking claims of inequality and favouring Ontario.

    How will these corporate welfare cheques be paid for? Will the government raise taxes on the super-rich and corporations? Unlikely. More likely the money will come from cutting public services or more taxes on ordinary working-class people.

    Other ways to spend $28.5 billion

    There are many ways to spend the $28.5 billion gift to VW/NextStar that would have a bigger impact in reducing climate change, improving life and would provide as many, if not more, jobs. Here are some suggestions:

    There’s the long considered, dedicated high speed (300 km per hour) electric rail service on the Windsor-Québec City corridor. There have been many studies with differing costs for different parts of the full route. It would drastically reduce travel times and shift passengers from cars and planes to much more energy efficient trains. It would also reduce car use within the cities connected. A 2011 study put the cost of the full route at $21.3 billion — updated for inflation, that is $28 billion. While there are variables around the costs, the $28.5 billion for VW/NextStar would go a long way to bringing this into reality and be a long-term investment in the environment and improved urban life.

    $28.5 billion would be enough to install a 7.5 kW solar system in 1.3 million homes. On the lighting front, LEDs also pack a serious punch for the environment. By 2027, widespread use of LEDs could reduce the country’s electricity use equal to the annual electrical output of 44 large electric power plants, and lead to total savings of more than $30 billion. Spend money to save money!

    To meet climate and affordability goals, most Canadian homes and buildings will need extensive renovation to be more energy efficient and use clean energy. The present government program, Greener Homes Grant, is capped at $5,000 per home, which is grossly inadequate to get homes to near zero emissions, and it only covers homeowners. The federal government has budgeted to spend $2.6 billion on this program. Costs vary significantly, depending on the building, but can be up to $100,000 per home. Socialist Alternative supports covering the full costs, especially for low-income households and expanding the current system to upgrade rental units (Canada Greener Affordable Housing). Some cities and provinces also provide some support. If the gift of $28.5 billion to VW/NextStar was instead added to the Green Homes Grant, and it was increased to $20,000, over 1.5 million homes could be upgraded.

    For $28.5 billion, Canada could build over 100,000 units of affordable housing units (average cost ~$250,000).

    It’s the crazy, anarchic capitalist system that gets in the way of the many alternative ways to protect the environment and provide good jobs.
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    Post  JohninMK Sat Aug 12, 2023 2:27 pm

    For virtually all this time there were no humans around trying to optimise the figures for their own benefit.
    Yandex translated

    The current Warm period (Holocene) began 12,000 years ago. Glaciers and tundra disappeared from Europe, forests and people returned.

    The sea level rose by 120 meters, about 1 cm per year. All this happened practically without human intervention.

    In terms of geological history, the Holocene is a blink of an eye. If you go back further, for example to the Cambrian, you will find much higher temperatures and CO2 values. But even during this blink of an eye, climate change had dramatic consequences:

    * The biblical flood is attributed to the collapse of the Mediterranean Sea into the much lower Black Sea.
    * England could still be reached on foot from Germany a few thousand years ago.
    * The Baltic Sea used to be a freshwater lake formed from glacial water, until it merged with the North Sea after sea level rise.

    The last (Eem) warm period ended after 10,000 years, the Holocene has now lasted for 12,000 years. Experts have been arguing for decades whether a new ice age is imminent or if temperatures will continue to rise. Taxpayers' money is used exclusively to finance the thesis of a "man-made climate catastrophe". 97% of climate researchers are of the opinion that they want to keep their third-party funding.

    Global warming - Page 3 F3T1dppWwAA55Qz?format=png&name=small

    From the German

    Stefan Homburg
    @SHomburg
    .
    5h
    Die aktuelle Warmzeit (Holozän) begann vor 12.000 Jahren. Gletscher und Tundra verschwanden aus Europa, Wälder und Menschen kehrten zurück.

    Der Meeresspiegel stieg um 120 Meter, rund 1 cm pro Jahr. All das geschah praktisch ohne menschliche Einwirkung.

    Erdgeschichtlich ist das Holozän ein Wimpernschlag. Wenn Sie weiter zurückgehen, etwa ins Kambrium, finden Sie ungleich höhere Temperaturen und CO2-Werte. Aber selbst während dieses Wimpernschlags hatte der Klimawandel dramatische Folgen:

    • Die biblische Sintflut wird auf den Einbruch des Mittelmeers in das viel tiefer gelegene Schwarze Meer zurückgeführt.
    • England konnte man noch vor ein paar tausend Jahren zu Fuß von Deutschland aus erreichen.
    • Die Ostsee war früher ein aus Gletscherwasser gebildeter Süßwassersee, bis sie sich nach Anstieg des Meeresspiegels mit der Nordsee vereinte.

    Die vorige (Eem-) Warmzeit nach 10.000 Jahren beendet, das Holozän währt nun schon 12.000 Jahre. Experten streiten seit Jahrzehnten, ob eine neue Eiszeit droht oder die Temperaturen weiter steigen. Mit Steuergeldern wird ausschließlich die These einer "menschengemachten Klimakatastrophe" finanziert. 97% der Klimaforscher sind der Meinung, dass sie ihre Drittmittel behalten wollen.

    Bild: http://astrolehrbuch.de/Erde/SystemErd

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    Post  kvs Fri Dec 29, 2023 3:39 am



    A little issue with solar panels not talked much about. The US is more afflicted with this than other countries for the same reason it has more
    tornadoes. Warm moist air comes off the Gulf of Mexico and pumps deep convection in the same region where there is a strong jet stream
    aloft. This acts to amplify convective updrafts in a type of chimney effect. Tornado vortices spin off at the base of these updrafts. Hail is often
    produced by this deep, active convection instead of warm front stratiform precipitation.

    Anyway, if all the climate change hysterics were honest, they would be pushing for nuclear power and electrification of transport. Even air travel
    could be "electrified" by using hydrogen or other fuel that is produced using electricity.

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    Post  kvs Fri Dec 29, 2023 4:08 am

    Regarding the "blink of an eye" and looming "ice age". Total BS.

    CO2 is the central parameter for the thermal energy balance of the atmosphere-ocean-land system. It is the prime infrared absorbing gas. N2, O2 and
    Argon which account for 99.9% of the atmosphere at transparent to IR. They cannot maintain temperatures. The solar flux absorbed at the
    surface would be re-radiated to space without greenhouse gases, primarily CO2.

    We are in an inter-glacial but still in the ice age. The ice age started 3.3 million years ago when the CO2 concentrations fell to the 350 ppmv range.
    Ten million years ago, during the Miocene, they were 420 ppmv there was no ice age. The Earth was not in a different orbit with different elliptic
    geometry. We are now approach 420 ppmv again. But actually we are higher. All the other human green house gases make CO2-equivalent
    concentration closer to 500 ppmv.

    The CO2 concentrations have been dropping over the last 100 million years. They fell enough that Antarctica froze over 34 million years ago.

    https://news.yale.edu/2011/12/01/yale-led-team-finds-co2-levels-plunged-antarctica-froze

    In the past, CO2 in the atmosphere has been maintained by volcanic activity and clathrate CH4 release due to sea-bed landslides, both related to
    tectonic processes. Humans have introduced a new input source via fossil fuel burning accounting for over 30 billion tons of CO2 emissions per
    year. Over the last few decades volcanoes have averaged an 600 million ton per year average release. During the Siberian and Deccan trap
    periods which lasted millions of years, there was active volcanic emission which resulted in global warming and mass extinction.

    So the issue for human CO2 inputs is how fast they can be removed into reservoirs. Chemical weathering is a CO2 sink since CO2 forms a
    weak acid in rain water that then reacts with rocks. This is a very slow process and the current CO2 burden would require several hundred thousand
    years to be removed. Ocean uptake is a faster process but for it be a global sink requires that release in the tropics remain smaller than uptake
    in the high latitude cold waters. The problem is that there is a systematic trend for the ocean uptake to shrink over time and by 2080 we are
    likely to enter the regime where the oceans release more CO2 than they absorb. This is a very big deal since there is 50 times more CO2 dissolved
    in the ocean water than is found the whole atmosphere. Once oceans start degassing, we are truly f*cked even if we stop emitting any CO2.

    The paid obfuscators who engage in real science denial, always try to paint CO2 as some uncertain parameter and hype the magic known as
    variability as if it was an actual process. Variability is an emergent feature. For the climate relevant systems, the physical processes are
    deterministic and all the variability is a resultant of a multi-variate evolution. So we have warm and cold years depending on El Nino/ La Nina and
    the Pacific Decadal Oscillation. These involve thermal energy transfer between the oceans and the atmosphere. They are not the
    result of some "unceratin" effect of CO2. A favourite denier trope is to claim that temperature precedes the CO2 signal during glaciation cycles.
    No shit Sherlock. The glaciation cycle involves variation of CO2 between 320 ppmv and 170 ppmv driven by orbit-associated solar insolation
    changes. A cooling trend because of less Solar heating in the northern hemisphere leads to more CO2 uptake by the oceans which establishes
    a feedback loop. Less CO2 because of ocean uptake means colder temperatures and more CO2 uptake. On top of this we get more snow
    cover in the high northern latitudes which reduces surface heating by reflecting a large part of the incoming solar flux back to space. (That is,
    there is less conversion to IR through surface absorption). This is a cluster-f*ck that causes the growth of glaciers.

    During the current ice age, the Earth did not enter a snowball regime where glaciation spans the planet to the equatorial belt. Such events are
    indicated in the geological record. From current understanding, it is likely that human CO2 is going to persist long enough to drive us out of
    the ice age and into a global warming mass extinction event. We can blame natural reservoirs for doing us in, but the responsibility is 100%
    our own.

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    Post  nomadski Fri Dec 29, 2023 1:22 pm



    Another source of greenhouse gas is methane . Are there now higher levels , than pre - industrial or pre - agricultural era ? If so then this is because of human activity . I read that fossil fuel extraction produces it . But the only way I understand agriculture being responsible , is if there is a bigger bio-mass now , than pre- agricultural times ? You said don't blame the Cows !

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    Post  kvs Fri Dec 29, 2023 2:14 pm

    CH4 is 75 times more potent than CO2 as an IR absorber on short time-scales. But CH4 breaks down in the stratosphere into H2O and CO2 through
    photolysis. It thus has a roughly 10 year residence time in the atmosphere (basically the time required for it to be circulated into the the stratosphere
    and in the stratosphere in the Brewer-Dobson circulation). The long term, effective, IR absorbing ratio of CH4 is about 25 times that of CO2.

    Emissions of CH4 originate from natural carbon reservoirs (permafrost, clathrates), wet lands (bogs, swamps) and agricultural zones (e.g. rice paddies),
    land-fills from decomposing organic waste (low or zero oxygen conditions), and oil and gas extraction by mostly leaks since normal procedure is to flare
    any well head gases that are not collected for use. Global warming con-artists will have you believe that cows are some huge source of CH4. But
    their emissions cannot explain the observed CH4 concentrations. The biggest CH4 emission threat is from permafrost and clathrates. The amount
    of CH4 in these reservoirs is enormous and we are destabilizing them. There is plenty of evidence of CH4 causing warming periods during the last
    120,000 years:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clathrate_gun_hypothesis

    BTW, any claims of "debunking" of this effect are pure BS. You can also ignore any spin WikiCrappia puts on the subject. F*cking gate-keeper trash
    that they are.

    Anyway, the CH4 concentration is 1.9 ppmv at the surface in the northern hemisphere compared to 410 ppmv for CO2 through the volume of the
    atmosphere. So CH4's effective concentration is around 0.5 x 25 = 12.5 ppmv in CO2 equivalent terms. CO2 is the main problem for humanity.


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    Post  nomadski Fri Dec 29, 2023 2:41 pm




    Ok I understand . CO2 is main problem . But methane is being continuously put out also . I think that fossil fuel extraction may be main culprit , because permafrost heating happened in the past warm periods , but not in conjunction with higher CO2 . I think that bio-mass must be higher , because of agriculture , as you said . Not just vegetable matter rotting in natural wetland , but more (domestic )animals producing it too ! How much CO2 , does a " Tree, " capture ? Can enough Trees be planted ? How about a technological carbon capture , I remember some mentioned machines ?


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