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23 posters

    Chinese Navy potential threat for the Russian Navy

    Big_Gazza
    Big_Gazza


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    Post  Big_Gazza Wed Dec 04, 2019 10:38 pm

    Isos wrote:The crisis in eastern ukraine destroyed ukraine. China doesnt want the same to happen in HK.

    Ukraine was destroyed by a violent coup by Ultra-nationalists and Banderite Nazis, and their subsequent armed pogrom against Russian speakers. A massive increase in corruption sealed the deal.

    How is that relevent to China??? You may not want to accept reality, but the average Chinese is very supportive of their government and they think the nation is heading in the right direction. It isn't "commie propaganda" or "brainwashing" that makes them think this, but the clear and obvious improvements arond them and the rapidly modernising state of the nation. People see it, and they approve.

    Isos wrote:If this propaganda touches other parts of China it will destroy them. They can't let HKers win against HK gov (supported by China) but they can't neither send in the PLA because it will be brutal.

    China has so many more tools in its warchest than simply sending in the troops, but they don't need to anything just yet. The HK gov has played soft-ball up to now, and hasn't wanted to wield the stick, but if these anarchist thugs continue and the HK economy takes a dive, they will be forced to act, and it won't be the CCP that makes the call but the HK elites who don't want to see a collapse of their little fiefdom.

    Ypu need to stop reading the rubbish written by "experts" in our elite-owned corporate MSM echo chambers. They are nothing but whores and peddlers of mistruth, making a living by willingly serving the rich & powerful. They will say what their benefactors want to hear.
    GarryB
    GarryB


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    Post  GarryB Thu Dec 05, 2019 6:52 am

    To be honest, I still cant believe this thread exists and so much discussion going on here.

    I am glad it exists, because otherwise I would not have heard Big Gazzas post or KVS's reply above (posts 121 and 122).

    Now I understand what is happening... thanks for spelling it out and making it clear.

    Now that you do spell it out it makes sense and now seems pretty obvious... the HKers are just as jealous as the west over development and progress in China, and this is them acting out... and trying to damage it... just like the west... the Brits have taught them all they know.

    This thread is 99.9% the handywork of the same J-20Hotdog/etc, who goes all around with his highly racial, anti-chinese agenda and draws in unsuspecting poster into posting and thus succeeding in his agendas.

    Except that it hasn't worked.

    I know plenty of Chinese people and I like the vast majority, they are good people. I have no reason to fear a growing China than I do an all powerful last super power America... many of the Americans I know are good people too, but certainly less humble...

    This thread has not descended into threats and anger... I think China with a strong navy is a good thing, but those supporting China need to realise that a strong navy isn't just having the hardware. As I have mentioned, Saudi Arabia has the hardware... on paper they are better equipped than most of the smaller NATO members, but they are terribly vulnerable in many areas.

    As mentioned in the news recently, China, for all its production and spending on weapons doens't have a missile warning system to organise defence against a strategic attack... Russia is helping them out with that and in return China is apparently helping Russia with a few things too... this will make China stronger and better prepared and it will also help Russia too... what is not to like?
    China getting stronger and developing is not a problem for Russia, and Russia getting stronger and developing is not a problem for China either.

    It is not a problem for the US and NATO except that they make it so.

    The crisis in eastern ukraine destroyed ukraine. China doesnt want the same to happen in HK.

    China would be shit scared of something bad happening to Hong Kong, because it was the one part of China that was totally modern and economically powerful... but as Gazza and KVS have mentioned, now it is the red headed kid talking about freedom and rights like it knows better than mom and dad do about life and how things work in the real world. Maybe red headed child needs a good kicking... or at least a sudden dose of reality so it pulls its head in and starts behaving... it is not the golden boy it used to be... their other kids have grown up and are doing a better job of it without the British heritage bullshit.

    If this propaganda touches other parts of China it will destroy them.

    What you are saying here is that Russia can't let Russian people watch western media because if they do they will find out how evil and manipulative Putin really is and they will over throw him. It is the western people and the Hong Kong people here who are deluded... the BS propaganda that works on them wont work on the general population because the general population know better... they know what the situation was like in the 1990s and they know what effect Putin has had since then on their lives.

    The people of mainland China are not a group of simple peasants eeking out an existence on a collective farm, or living in some deathtrap soviet era apartment complex with a million other people per square kilometre... as BG mentioned... many Chinese cities are doing better than Hong Kong... but without its congestion or limited space issues.

    They can't let HKers win against HK gov (supported by China) but they can't neither send in the PLA because it will be brutal.

    They have Americans and Ukrainian Nazis on their side... how can they win?

    This will create more laws in the US to help those poor freedom fighters from that evil Chinese empire, which will mean Apple and other companies will withdraw production from China... Trump will salivate at that hoping they will create jobs in the US but it is too expensive, so they will probably go to Bangladesh, or perhaps somewhere in Africa... but Chinese companies will step up to the plate... for a while the Chinese consumers will suffer, but those American companies will bribe and cheat and get their products in there... but I suspect the Chinese companies are at a point where they can probably develop better products anyway so I actually think this will be good for China... China will likely focus on their Silk Roads and the Russian North Sea Route and trade with the EU instead of the US and ultimately it will the the US that gets shafted over all of this.

    It isn't "commie propaganda" or "brainwashing" that makes them think this, but the clear and obvious improvements arond them and the rapidly modernising state of the nation. People see it, and they approve.

    I remember in the late 1990s a british reporter in Beijing was interviewing a CEO of some American car company based in China and the American pointed out the window... and there were thousands of cars going past the building they were in... and he said when he arrived in China less than ten years before the traffic outside was all bicycles. Without a single hint of guilt, he said that at that point the Chinese in big cities were converting to cars, but his companys goal was to have the same effect out in the countryside too and the smaller towns and villages and have everyone driving cars instead of push bikes...

    Getting China and India to consume like the US does is what is killing this planet... the western disposable consumer society is horrendously wasteful and destructive and you could see it coming a mile away...


    China has so many more tools in its warchest than simply sending in the troops, but they don't need to anything just yet. The HK gov has played soft-ball up to now, and hasn't wanted to wield the stick, but if these anarchist thugs continue and the HK economy takes a dive, they will be forced to act, and it won't be the CCP that makes the call but the HK elites who don't want to see a collapse of their little fiefdom.

    The other irony is that 30 or more years ago this sort of wedge between a growing economy and the US would be economically fatal, but these days it is more a rite of passage... I think it will be good for China to break its trade ties with the US as will happen when HK ends up having to take real action... the west will claim it is hitler and stalin all rolled in to one, but the sanctions wont hurt China nearly as much as the west will hope it will, and lets face it people... be honest... the US is only 350-400 million people and most of them are not that wealthy any more... the US has a 22 trillion dollar debt and rising... it is in Chinas interests to look at other markets with more people... with people with money to spend, who are not mortgaged up to their eyeballs, and pay in real money that is not printed as it is needed and basically worthless when the brown stuff hits the whirling bits of plastic that shift air around the office...
    SeigSoloyvov
    SeigSoloyvov


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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Thu Dec 05, 2019 7:32 am

    GarryB wrote:
    If you mean can't the PLA could march into HK and fix the issue with ease, they simply don't wish to do that right now.

    Amusing... Russia fan boys are called up on the slow construction rate... we are saying they are getting the basics right on the smaller ships so that they will be right on the bigger ships to come. The technology is modular and scalable... it is not like the UKSK launcher on a Corvette is different to one on a Cruiser, so once all the problems are sorted out for the smaller ships on which they are new technology, then not only will the smaller ships be able to be mass produced in large production runs to suit the needs of the Russian Navy, but those systems and modules should be more mature and developed so larger vessels should be quicker and easier to get right and in production too.

    When we say there is no point in rushing in to mass production until they get everything working... otherwise they might end up like the F-35 with 300 in service but still with hundreds of problems that need to be fixed... it is cheaper to get it right and then mass produce than to mass produce and try to fix problems as they come up... which is likely what China is doing.

    The PLA wont march in to HK because the west will turn on them fully and all that money they make in western markets will dry up... which wont destroy their economy... they have enough people to sell products to themselves, but it will seriously stunt their growth and development and might lead to things they really don't want... like the US fully supporting Taiwan and lots of other countries doing the same resulting in Taiwan declaring full independence from China... which could be very very serious... and really not what China wants at all.

    The Value of Hong Kong is that it is an economic centre used by many who would not do the same in China... if they seize HK it stops being HK that it is now.

    I see people talking fantasy crap all the time when it's positive for Russia but if it's negative then it's "Pathetic fantasy".

    Pathetic = western government funded. Like rebellion in Siberia, or ISIS in control of Syria, or Russians actually going to the Ukraine to fight Ukrainians... you know... bullshit... specifically in this case it is China fighting Russia or India fighting China, because that would suit the US and the west right down to the ground... they would love it and they would do everything to encourage it and make it worse for all parties involved. They don't give a shit about who gets killed... look at the mourning the Syrian and Libyan and Iraqi dead because of what they do?

    So fantasy you like is okay but the fantasy you don't like is bad, Mhm of course.

    Oh please... giving lectures on double standards... are you still in Syria stealing Assads oil Mr Terrorist?

    What does build rates for the Russians have to do with a problem for HK and China, HK doesn't even make up a big percent of Chinese budget...I am ignoring this pointless rant.

    The statement was EASY to read. The Chinese army could March into HK and fix the problem but that would require brute force the Government is unwilling to use at this moment.


    Garry I call stuff like I see it good or bad for even the US. I haven't pushed Western propaganda I have stated facts and if people don't like it tough luck. So you are barking up the wrong tree.


    Except like 99 percent of people on this forum I double standards, when the US is wrong I say it, when Russia is wrong I say it. Really need to post that needless rant hey whatever suits you. You should try it sometime an objective mind is a wonderful thing.
    GarryB
    GarryB


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    Post  GarryB Thu Dec 05, 2019 11:26 am

    ]What does build rates for the Russians have to do with a problem for HK and China, HK doesn't even make up a big percent of Chinese budget...I am ignoring this pointless rant.

    This thread is about the rise of the Chinese navy and what threat, if any that poses to the Russian Navy... look for yourself at the name of the thread if you wont take my word for it...

    The issues China is having in HK will effect its future... depending on how it is handled, which will probably effect how the Chinese navy grows and develops, and Russian ship production rates would seriously effect what threat, if any a future Chinese navy would pose... if they stop making ships completely then even a steady increase would increase Chinas naval potential vs the Russian navy, whereas if Russia is sensible but consistent and gets mature corvette and frigate designs into mass production, and scales them up efficiently to create quality destroyers and cruisers then you could say the Russian navys future is going to be stable and it will be able to perform its missions... of course Russian ships wouldn't fight Chinese ships... Russia has missiles and aircraft that can do that much more efficiently, though they are designed to take on larger US forces, they will do for Chinese or British or French ships too.

    The Chinese army could March into HK and fix the problem but that would require brute force the Government is unwilling to use at this moment.

    This is not really Chinas problem, it is the government in Hong Kong that needs to sort this out... if the army needs to go in, it will likely be units from Hong Kong and not Main Land China.

    Garry I call stuff like I see it good or bad for even the US. I haven't pushed Western propaganda I have stated facts and if people don't like it tough luck. So you are barking up the wrong tree.

    So I like fantasy and you are impartial and fair.... riiight... I start all my most racist jokes with "I don't want to sound racist but... "

    I am not biased but Assad is evil and I kill people in a country I am in illegally while helping groups locally designated as terrorists, but I am not a propaganda mouthpiece... I speak the truth... whatever that used to be.

    You should try it sometime an objective mind is a wonderful thing.

    Fuck objective. Objective is pretending to see it from the other side but not actually doing so... the BBC says it is objective and showing all sides of the picture... objective is propaganda code for believe what I say without checking and hopefully when I say the opposite really happened in a months time on the 54th page in the bottom corner in Braille you will already believe it to be true.

    To paraphrase Senator George Bush Snr in the Mid 1980s... "I don't care what the facts are... America is not to blame".

    It is funny... 10 years ago when I did a search for this statement I got multiple hits... long lists in fact... now nothing... do you think the internet is not censored?

    Because of that I have adopted GWBs mantra... I don't care what the facts are... America is to blame...

    On 99% of issues I will be right, and the other 1% I doubt I will care.

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