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    New UK-Italian fighter Tempest

    JohninMK
    JohninMK

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    Post  JohninMK Sat Mar 06, 2021 1:18 pm

    GarryB wrote:Actually going in to negotiations with the best deal... ie giving up everything your are prepared to give up and demanding things you are not prepared to give up is rather stupid.

    I'd say that the way the UK is going into the Tempest discussions is pretty sensible, gathering as many logical partners as possible, ideally at a State level. We are looking at the RAF's requirements 10-15 years from now, who knows what the F-35s are going to be like by then.

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sun Mar 07, 2021 4:37 am

    I mean it in the sense that in negotiations both sides expect some flexibility from the other party, but if you go in with the best deal you are prepared to offer them, first of all you are selling yourself short... there might be things you want but you wont ever get if you don't ask... it might be nothing to them but might be important to you.

    My point is that when negotiating you should certainly work out your bottom line where you give way the most you are prepared to give and get the bare minimum to make it actually worth while... but you hide that information... you never open with that offer.

    You look at a padded out ideal solution where you have a gun to their heads and can have anything an everything you want... that could be an opening offer... obviously they wont accept that because it will likely have nothing in it for them, but as you discuss you will give up stuff... especially stuff you don't really want, and you let them have some of their wants... the ones they seem to think are most important and you will end up with something that has to be better than your take it or leave it deal.

    They will feel you gave up a lot of things you seemed to want but will also feel they got what they wanted and you can both sign the agreement.

    Hopefully with the agreements regarding the Tempest go well, but keeping agreement and focus is going to be difficult and to keep funding... I mean if they can only give nurses and healthcare workers a 1% increase, how much can they commit to a plane like this?

    I would think if your politicians had any brains they would give the healthcare workers a 10% pay increase and offset the extra cost by giving themselves a pay cut of 10%... but those greedy censored would never consider that... I wonder how far from minimum wage those nurses and healthcare support people are getting, compared with the money UK politicians get along with the cars and free travel and other perks...

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    Finty
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    New UK-Italian fighter Tempest - Page 2 Empty Tempest: UK’s sixth generation fighter to enter design phase imminently

    Post  Finty Sun Jul 25, 2021 2:09 pm

    From way back in May...
    https://aero-mag.com/tempest-fighter-jet-bae-systems-26052021/

    Tempest: UK’s sixth generation fighter to enter design phase imminently

    The UK’s sixth generation fighter jet programme, Tempest, is on track and ready to enter the design phase imminently.
    Industry and government are expected to sign off the defence programme to enter its design phase in the next few weeks, according to a BAE Systems spokesman speaking to Defense News (DN).

    “We are making good progress on the route to the concept and assessment phase, with the shared aim of launching the next phase of an international program to jointly develop and deliver world-leading future combat air capability. We expect to agree the concept and assessment phase contract in the summer,” the spokesman told DN.

    The Tempest programme is being delivered by Team Tempest, a UK technology and defence partnership between the Ministry of Defence, BAE Systems, Leonardo UK, MBDA, Rolls-Royce and the RAF.
    In March it was announced that the UK government will invest £2 billion over four years to propel the next phase of the programme

    This week, a PwC report highlighted that Tempest will make an estimated £26.2 billion contribution to the UK economy between 2021 and 2050. It will also support on average 21,000 jobs per year, from development to operational service (2026-2050).

    BAE Systems’ site in Warton, Lancashire is applying digital technologies to advance manufacturing on the Tempest programme
    The report also said the programme will create high productivity employment with an average GVA per worker of £101,000, 78% higher than the UK national average and 42% higher than the country’s manufacturing average.

    Diane Shaw, EMEA aerospace, defence and security consulting leader, PwC, added: “As our research outlines, the scale of the Tempest programme is significant and expected to deliver wide-ranging benefits to the UK, stimulating investment in new technologies and promoting critical skills and capabilities that ensure the UK can continue to operate at the forefront of world-leading technology. The programme will stimulate R&D in regions most in need and generate wider economic benefits for these areas, supporting the UK Government’s levelling up priorities and contributing to the UK’s economic recovery and prosperity in the decades ahead.”

    Tempest is meant to enter service in 2035 and replace the Eurofighter Typhoons currently used by the RAF and Italian Air Force.
    The fighter jet will include new technologies including direct energy weapons, hypersonic weapons, optional manning and swarming drones.
    kvs
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    Post  kvs Sun Jul 25, 2021 4:25 pm

    What a ridiculous tag to call it sixth generation. It is fifth generation by definition. The fifth generation expires when
    substantial new technology and design appears and that is not likely in the next 20 years.

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Mon Jul 26, 2021 6:55 am

    All these amazing benefits to the UK economy... makes you wonder why they stopped designing and making their own aircraft in the first place...

    The programme with create high productivity and then says the people doing the work will get paid more than 70% more than current workers are paid who work in that area.

    That is not high productivity... that is high overheads...

    It will make a 26 billion pound contribution to the UK economy and it will only cost the government 500 billion pounds to fund it...  real value for money there...  Twisted Evil

    Is it too late for them to join the Su-75 programme?
    lyle6
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    Post  lyle6 Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:41 pm

    That's a lot of counting eggs that haven't hatched yet. Sure everything would go as planned, and not go horribly wrong as usual. What would it be this time? A fighter that overheats itself to death, vibrates its pilot to stupor, asphyxiates him as well? Whatever, can't wait.
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    limb

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    Post  limb Mon Jul 26, 2021 1:01 pm

    GarryB wrote:All these amazing benefits to the UK economy... makes you wonder why they stopped designing and making their own aircraft in the first place...

    The programme with create high productivity and then says the people doing the work will get paid more than 70% more than current workers are paid who work in that area.

    That is not high productivity... that is high overheads...

    It will make a 26 billion pound contribution to the UK economy and it will only cost the government 500 billion pounds to fund it...  real value for money there...  Twisted Evil

    Is it too late for them to join the Su-75 programme?

    Give them a break. Bongs blame  US lobbying and thatcher for axeing RAF projects in favor of US economic interests. TSR.2 is an example.

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    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK Mon Jul 26, 2021 1:36 pm

    limb wrote:
    Give them a break. Bongs blame  US lobbying and thatcher for axeing RAF projects in favor of US economic interests. TSR.2 is an example.

    It would be fascinating to find out how many senior UK politicians/civil servants/military who were involved in the F-35 decision ended up with some kind of role at L-M. But then were are not a corrupt country Rolling Eyes

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