Iran–Russia strategic economic partnership

Dima wrote:I simply can't understand why most of the time the Russians are so stupid with business/deals.

Iran sanctions have been lifted and we are hearing news of Iran planning to but over 100 airbus commercial aircrafts. WTF is the Russians doing.....why are the dumbos not having a strong promotion for selling Tu-204 family to Iran. It would be a real boost for Tupolev and Russian commercial aircraft industry (other than the selfish Sukhoi/Irkut gangs) as well as a first large sales for a well deserving aircraft that unfortunately had its birth at the start of a crippling crisis.

The Administration (Rohani ) from Iran is pro NATO. Not Chance for Russia Zivil Air Craft. The Parlaments Elections of Summer 2016 bring possibly a Change.

That is exactly what i get from that hogus bogus bullshit "nuclear deal" that is working directly against Iran and persians aswell against russia. Ahmadinejad wouldn't allow this pro US garbage to happen. I also distrust Modi on the same level as to much leaning with one ass cheek on a US/NATO chair, he will eventually fall on his ass and have india pillowing his fall for him.

Dima wrote:I simply can't understand why most of the time the Russians are so stupid with business/deals.

Iran sanctions have been lifted and we are hearing news of Iran planning to but over 100 airbus commercial aircrafts. WTF is the Russians doing.....why are the dumbos not having a strong promotion for selling Tu-204 family to Iran. It would be a real boost for Tupolev and Russian commercial aircraft industry (other than the selfish Sukhoi/Irkut gangs) as well as a first large sales for a well deserving aircraft that unfortunately had its birth at the start of a crippling crisis.

i understand where your coming from, but as some others have said about deals in EU to help open up other markets, but its still quite a good strategy, and besides Russia will get other deals such as the Nuclear plant program and military deals, its safer for Iran to do these types of deals with Russia than western countries because if Iran was ever to face tough sanctions again, areas such as military and Nuclear won't be affected as much as and its unlikely western countries would slap sanctions on deals and maintainence parts for passenger aircraft, but its still a little risky. I am hoping Iran will start to place massive deals for Russian military hardware soon which will help the Russian economy during this tough time.

d_taddei2 wrote:

Dima wrote:I simply can't understand why most of the time the Russians are so stupid with business/deals.

Iran sanctions have been lifted and we are hearing news of Iran planning to but over 100 airbus commercial aircrafts. WTF is the Russians doing.....why are the dumbos not having a strong promotion for selling Tu-204 family to Iran. It would be a real boost for Tupolev and Russian commercial aircraft industry (other than the selfish Sukhoi/Irkut gangs) as well as a first large sales for a well deserving aircraft that unfortunately had its birth at the start of a crippling crisis.

i understand where your coming from, but as some others have said about deals in EU to help open up other markets, but its still quite a good strategy, and besides Russia will get other deals such as the Nuclear plant program and military deals, its safer for Iran to do these types of deals with Russia than western countries because if Iran was ever to face tough sanctions again, areas such as military and Nuclear won't be affected as much as and its unlikely western countries would slap sanctions on deals and maintainence parts for passenger aircraft, but its still a little risky. I am hoping Iran will start to place massive deals for Russian military hardware soon which will help the Russian economy during this tough time.

The today released 23 billion US dollars, a partial pension of 120 billion, are probably on the condition freely come to need these to invest in the EU or USA. As Rohani is a member of a Western-oriented Iranian elite so destroys the independence and the Iranian way of all from his own hand. See the purchase of railways and Wagongs. Instead, the new own industry to strengthen here. Iran supplies from straight and destroyed gradually himself. West robbed again billion with extortion to later another country to attack and destroy with the kind help of Rohani and other.
Iran should strive for a better cooperation with the TU 204/214 and MS21 and strengthen with Russia both countries. Iran has well trained young students and the (German) machinebuilding and Russia's experience and resources. win win
With Rohani and other it is not. The will lead Iran only in the abyss.

Karl Haushofer wrote:

Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E wrote:

Dima wrote:I simply can't understand why most of the time the Russians are so stupid with business/deals.

Iran sanctions have been lifted and we are hearing news of Iran planning to but over 100 airbus commercial aircrafts. WTF is the Russians doing.....why are the dumbos not having a strong promotion for selling Tu-204 family to Iran. It would be a real boost for Tupolev and Russian commercial aircraft industry (other than the selfish Sukhoi/Irkut gangs) as well as a first large sales for a well deserving aircraft that unfortunately had its birth at the start of a crippling crisis.

The Administration (Rohani ) from Iran is pro NATO. Not Chance for Russia Zivil Air Craft. The Parlaments Elections of Summer 2016 bring possibly a Change.

How is it even possible that a pro-Western regime can come to power in Iran after the way the West has treated Iran for decades?

Iranian youth is said to be pro-Western as well.

Can we expect Iran to turn for the West and ditch Russia now? Iranian oil in the world market was certainly not helpful for Russia either.

Large parts of the country are exhibited not pro-Western but pro Ahmadinejad politics as the election of 2009. The people believed in an Iranian future despite the severe sanctions against the country.

But in parts of Iran's elite as well as large parts of the capital are per West. The attempted coup in 2009 came to power in 2013 and since then there have been enormous changes in the foreign policy as well as in domestic politics. The promotion of the domestic economy has been driven almost to zero. The Infrastructures projects put on hold.

Ahmadinejad himself is still very popular as show many videos. But it is largely isolated from politics and also by the media. It is virtually a coup and the geisliche leader himself is too weak.

Makes sense since ayatollah seems to say things contrary to what the current president says.

Hopefully Russia can still win contracts since newer sanctions are being placed on Iran by US and EU may follow.

There are no flies on the Iranians. Their business acumen goes back 1000s of years. They will negotiate with anyone but they will remember who their friends are. Don't forget that the Russians blotted their copybook when they didn't deliver the S-300 systems. Also, as already mentioned, there may be covert conditions or expectations on the money that the Western banks are releasing and Iran is not going to upset the bankers until its got all its money released. Some of that money may only exist on paper and it might suit the bankers to keep it in the 'virtual' Western bank system by transferring it to say Airbus rather than the Bank of Iran in Tehran.

As to the aircraft, Russia just does not have the production capacity to churn out a large number in a short time like Airbus does, or a large number of nearly new aircraft of a similar type to be bought second hand, or the possibility of early deliveries by other customers giving up their slots (there is a serious recession about to hit very hard that will cut air travel).

JohninMK wrote:There are no flies on the Iranians. Their business acumen goes back 1000s of years. They will negotiate with anyone but they will remember who their friends are. Don't forget that the Russians blotted their copybook when they didn't deliver the S-300 systems. Also, as already mentioned, there may be covert conditions or expectations on the money that the Western banks are releasing and Iran is not going to upset the bankers until its got all its money released. Some of that money may only exist on paper and it might suit the bankers to keep it in the 'virtual' Western bank system by transferring it to say Airbus rather than the Bank of Iran in Tehran.

As to the aircraft, Russia just does not have the production capacity to churn out a large number in a short time like Airbus does, or a large number of nearly new aircraft of a similar type to be bought second hand, or the possibility of early deliveries by other customers giving up their slots (there is a serious recession about to hit very hard that will cut air travel).

That is true. With the Il-96 only in talks about starting production again for long range flights, Sukhoi SSJ-100 and MS-21 are both shorter range jets. So that is still a void in Iran that Russia could fill.

Russia’s Lukoil signs oil prospecting deal in Iran — Press TV

TEHERAN, January 24. /TASS/. Russia’s oil major Lukoil has signed a contract on two exploration projects in Iran’s southern provinces, Iran’s Press TV said on Sunday citing Hormoz Qalavand, the director for exploration affairs of the National Iranian Oil Company (NIOC).
"Iran says it has signed a deal with Russia’s Lukoil over two exploration projects in the country’s southwestern oil-rich Khouzestan province," Press TV said.
According to Qalavand, Lukoil will prospect for hydrocarbon reserves in Dasht-e Abadan in Khouzestab and in the northern parts of the Persian Gulf. He said the project cost was estimated at about six million U.S. dollars. The Russian company, in his words, had already started works on the projects.
Lukoil has an experience of work on the Iranian market. In 2003, it entered in a consortium with Norway’s Norsk Hydro, 25 and 75% respectively, on a prospecting project at the Anaran block. In 2011, Lukoil quitted the project after economic sanctions had been imposed on Iran.
In April 2015, Lukoil resumed operation of its office in Iran.

More:
http://tass.ru/en/economy/851826

The deal is only worth about $6 mil.  While Iran signed contract with Italy in over $6B for metallurgy.

Strategic partnership my ass.  I knew this was gonna happen. "Oh, we are partners and we wont forget their help to us. But we wont help them economically".

sepheronx wrote:The deal is only worth about $6 mil.  While Iran signed contract with Italy in over $6B for metallurgy.

Strategic partnership my ass.  I knew this was gonna happen. "Oh, we are partners and we wont forget their help to us. But we wont help them economically".

Let´s wait for a moment yet. Nobody says there will be no deals.

sepheronx wrote:

JohninMK wrote:There are no flies on the Iranians. Their business acumen goes back 1000s of years. They will negotiate with anyone but they will remember who their friends are. Don't forget that the Russians blotted their copybook when they didn't deliver the S-300 systems. Also, as already mentioned, there may be covert conditions or expectations on the money that the Western banks are releasing and Iran is not going to upset the bankers until its got all its money released. Some of that money may only exist on paper and it might suit the bankers to keep it in the 'virtual' Western bank system by transferring it to say Airbus rather than the Bank of Iran in Tehran.

As to the aircraft, Russia just does not have the production capacity to churn out a large number in a short time like Airbus does, or a large number of nearly new aircraft of a similar type to be bought second hand, or the possibility of early deliveries by other customers giving up their slots (there is a serious recession about to hit very hard that will cut air travel).

That is true.  With the Il-96 only in talks about starting production again for long range flights, Sukhoi SSJ-100 and MS-21 are both shorter range jets.  So that is still a void in Iran that Russia could fill.

Its not like Iran wants 100 liners in 2 years. They will obtain them though probably though 10 years deal or something of a sort. Russia could do the same with no particular issues.

sepheronx wrote:The deal is only worth about $6 mil.  While Iran signed contract with Italy in over $6B for metallurgy.

Strategic partnership my ass.  I knew this was gonna happen. "Oh, we are partners and we wont forget their help to us. But we wont help them economically".

... I don't understand the fuss. Having a strategic partnership, DOES NOT MEAN they were going to become a client state. Have Italians, French and Germans cross Iranian airspace or waters, see what happens. Meanwhile Iran is actually giving absolute carte blanche to Russia to bomb the shit out of Saudi-financed scum.

They need goods and services Russia can't deliver at this point. Metallurgy contract 6 billion, Airbus contract another 6. These are deals of a lifetime with a serious premium risk. The Chinese will also get a cut, Russia will get a cut too. But then they will want to arm, and there's the rub. NO ONE will sell Iran, except China and maybe some backdoor biz from France, Spain or Italy. It's the way it is.

Militarov wrote: Its not like Iran wants 100 liners in 2 years. They will obtain them though probably though 10 years deal or something of a sort. Russia could do the same with no particular issues.

Russia does not manufacture wide-body liners, if Iran buys MS-21 so this takes 2x longer then airbus.
Tu-204? how many per year now 1-2? can be max 8? so 100 in 15 years including developing prod capabilities?

They are just pragmatic. and nobody says they will not buy from Russia more nuclear PPs or even MS-21 one will be available.

GunshipDemocracy wrote:

Militarov wrote: Its not like Iran wants 100 liners in 2 years. They will obtain them though probably though 10 years deal or something of a sort. Russia could do the same with no particular issues.

Russia does not manufacture wide-body liners, if Iran buys MS-21 so this takes 2x longer then airbus.
Tu-204? how many per year now 1-2? can be max 8? so 100 in 15 years including developing prod capabilities?

They are just pragmatic. and nobody says they will not buy from Russia more nuclear PPs or even MS-21 one will be available.

I dont think Iran wants 100 wide body liners in a first place. They will most likely buy number of Airbus320Neo and some amount of wide bodys, they do not need 100 Airbus A330s, at least i dont see why would they.

They would not be interested in Tupolev for sure, here we are talking about Sukhoi 100, which can be produced in probably over 20 per year with no issues, maybe even more if orders existed. If they buy now Airbus, they will never again buy Russian liners simply due to logistics it would be too expencive and messy. They would have bought Russian liners if they had to before sanctions, now when they have ability to choose the wont.

Militarov wrote: I dont think Iran wants 100 wide body liners in a first place. They will most likely buy number of Airbus320Neo and some amount of wide bodys, they do not need 100 Airbus A330s, at least i dont see why would they.

They would not be interested in Tupolev for sure, here we are talking about Sukhoi 100, which can be produced in probably over 20 per year with no issues, maybe even more if orders existed. If they buy now Airbus, they will never again buy Russian liners simply due to logistics it would be too expencive and messy. They would have bought Russian liners if they had to before sanctions, now when they have ability to choose the wont.

Is Russia only buying own planes? or U/EU carriers only own? I also do not think Iran would reject Russian liners but buy rather MS-21 or something like Il-96 then SJ-100. SJ-100 is on the same level "sanctions dependent ". They could not buy earlier as Russia did manufacture virtually none.

GunshipDemocracy wrote:

Militarov wrote: I dont think Iran wants 100 wide body liners in a first place. They will most likely buy number of Airbus320Neo and some amount of wide bodys, they do not need 100 Airbus A330s, at least i dont see why would they.

They would not be interested in Tupolev for sure, here we are talking about Sukhoi 100, which can be produced in probably over 20 per year with no issues, maybe even more if orders existed. If they buy now Airbus, they will never again buy Russian liners simply due to logistics it would be too expencive and messy. They would have bought Russian liners if they had to before sanctions, now when they have ability to choose the wont.

Is Russia only buying own planes? or U/EU carriers only own? I also do not think Iran would reject  Russian liners but buy rather MS-21 or something like Il-96 then SJ-100. SJ-100 is on the same level "sanctions dependent ". They could not buy earlier as Russia did manufacture virtually none.

Russians started bying foreign liners when domestic factories went to hell, even today they wouldnt be bying domestic if there wasnt pressure from the gov. Its big difference if you operate 3 types of foreign liners or 2 foreign and 1 domestic or 3 domestic. Also SSJ100 is being produced for quite a few years now, if they wanted it they could have ordered it even before 2010. And spares for SSJ would come via Russia when its about Western equipment not directly from suppliers if that was the point if sanction dependent part.

Russians needed money, if someone came to Tupolev in 2005. and said he wants 100 liners, they would sure as hell start production. Iran was simply waiting for sanctions to be halted to get Airbus or Boeing. At least that is what i get from whole this story. They tho had 6-7 major accidents featuring USSR/Russian liners and transport aircrafts which probably killed near 1000 people, that did not help much either.

I dont think any major EU/US based company operates anything Russian or Chinese. Some Fokkers, Bombardiers, Saabs occasionally but majority is Airbus/Boeing.

Militarov wrote:

GunshipDemocracy wrote:

Militarov wrote: I dont think Iran wants 100 wide body liners in a first place. They will most likely buy number of Airbus320Neo and some amount of wide bodys, they do not need 100 Airbus A330s, at least i dont see why would they.

They would not be interested in Tupolev for sure, here we are talking about Sukhoi 100, which can be produced in probably over 20 per year with no issues, maybe even more if orders existed. If they buy now Airbus, they will never again buy Russian liners simply due to logistics it would be too expencive and messy. They would have bought Russian liners if they had to before sanctions, now when they have ability to choose the wont.

Is Russia only buying own planes? or U/EU carriers only own? I also do not think Iran would reject  Russian liners but buy rather MS-21 or something like Il-96 then SJ-100. SJ-100 is on the same level "sanctions dependent ". They could not buy earlier as Russia did manufacture virtually none.

Russians started bying foreign liners when domestic factories went to hell, even today they wouldnt be bying domestic if there wasnt pressure from the gov. Its big difference if you operate 3 types of foreign liners or 2 foreign and 1 domestic or 3 domestic. Also SSJ100 is being produced for quite a few years now, if they wanted it they could have ordered it even before 2010. And spares for SSJ would come via Russia when its about Western equipment not directly from suppliers if that was the point if sanction dependent part.

Russians needed money, if someone came to Tupolev in 2005. and said he wants 100 liners, they would sure as hell start production. Iran was simply waiting for sanctions to be halted to get Airbus or Boeing. At least that is what i get from whole this story. They tho had 6-7 major accidents featuring USSR/Russian liners and transport aircrafts which probably killed near 1000 people, that did not help much either.

I dont think any major EU/US based company operates anything Russian or Chinese. Some Fokkers, Bombardiers, Saabs occasionally but majority is Airbus/Boeing.

Nope.  Russia got foreign airliners because of boeing and airbus lobbying and auditing organizations.  Essentially, competition was snuffed out due to this.  It was noted quite a while ago and recent video vann posted where they talked about this.

@Kote

And in a strategic partnership, countries need to help each other out.  Russia has all that is needed. You think Russia doesnt have a strong metallurgy industry? Theirs is one of the biggest and even India is purchasing from them. Same with US.  Airliners? Sukhoi Superjet is one of them available.   We were promised Russia would get billions in contracts.  So far? Those billions are not to Russia.

You people cannot see beyond a gun sight.  Economics is what will make Russia strong.  But these consulting firms is the factor as to why Sukhoi civil aircrafts are failing to get decent sales.  Total fucking failure on Russias authorities and business.  And Iran isnt helping at all.

sepheronx wrote:

Militarov wrote:

GunshipDemocracy wrote:

Militarov wrote: I dont think Iran wants 100 wide body liners in a first place. They will most likely buy number of Airbus320Neo and some amount of wide bodys, they do not need 100 Airbus A330s, at least i dont see why would they.

They would not be interested in Tupolev for sure, here we are talking about Sukhoi 100, which can be produced in probably over 20 per year with no issues, maybe even more if orders existed. If they buy now Airbus, they will never again buy Russian liners simply due to logistics it would be too expencive and messy. They would have bought Russian liners if they had to before sanctions, now when they have ability to choose the wont.

Is Russia only buying own planes? or U/EU carriers only own? I also do not think Iran would reject  Russian liners but buy rather MS-21 or something like Il-96 then SJ-100. SJ-100 is on the same level "sanctions dependent ". They could not buy earlier as Russia did manufacture virtually none.

Russians started bying foreign liners when domestic factories went to hell, even today they wouldnt be bying domestic if there wasnt pressure from the gov. Its big difference if you operate 3 types of foreign liners or 2 foreign and 1 domestic or 3 domestic. Also SSJ100 is being produced for quite a few years now, if they wanted it they could have ordered it even before 2010. And spares for SSJ would come via Russia when its about Western equipment not directly from suppliers if that was the point if sanction dependent part.

Russians needed money, if someone came to Tupolev in 2005. and said he wants 100 liners, they would sure as hell start production. Iran was simply waiting for sanctions to be halted to get Airbus or Boeing. At least that is what i get from whole this story. They tho had 6-7 major accidents featuring USSR/Russian liners and transport aircrafts which probably killed near 1000 people, that did not help much either.

I dont think any major EU/US based company operates anything Russian or Chinese. Some Fokkers, Bombardiers, Saabs occasionally but majority is Airbus/Boeing.

Nope.  Russia got foreign airliners because of boeing and airbus lobbying and auditing organizations.  Essentially, competition was snuffed out due to this.  It was noted quite a while ago and recent video vann posted where they talked about this.

@Kote

And in a strategic partnership, countries need to help each other out.  Russia has all that is needed. You think Russia doesnt have a strong metallurgy industry? Theirs is one of the biggest and even India is purchasing from them. Same with US.  Airliners? Sukhoi Superjet is one of them available.

You people cannot see beyond a gun sight.  Economics is what will make Russia strong.  But these consulting firms is the factor as to why Sukhoi civil aircrafts are failing to get decent sales.  Total fucking failure on Russias authorities and business.  And Iran isnt helping at all.

Yeah the problem is that Tehran needs carrots for its own purpose. You have to understand that by picking Russia and China alone, Iran doesn't get some other aspects of the dual trade.

For instance the Amafond deal with Italy is directly related to the Khodro plants that have been in disarray for almost a decade now. They're still assembling Peugeot 405's FFS. That's 1980's technology.

Also so we can get some context on this. The first actual MOU that Italians had with Iran was done in Moscow in 2013...at Litmash 2013. The same Russians were trying to get some of the same deals with Finmeccanica/Amafond. If that's NOT a recognition of a certain interest that Italian machinery has for Rasha, I don't know what that is.

Iran isn't helping? Yeah sure, Iran is helping with its blood and strategic interests (they're outsourcing most of their Nuclear Program to Russia FFS). Now chill, you're getting overworked. That's the kind of client State mentality Russia doesn't need to instill to its partners (FFS it didn't even do that to U crying).

Ok, so where are these billions that were potential for Russia?  I dont see it anywhere.  Few nuclear plants is nothing, and the amount further in loss of oil trade will not make things dandy.

I see Russias civil airlines are doing well, with all this trade to Iran.  Heck, Iran was sanctioned for 30 years because US didnt like them, then EU sanctioned them.  So what makes them think they wont get sanctioned again? Good luck buying spares.  Iranians died by a lot of plane crashes due to poor maintenance.  Lack of spare parts.  Not just from Russian jets either.

sepheronx wrote:Ok, so where are these billions that were potential for Russia?  I dont see it anywhere.  Few nuclear plants is nothing, and the amount further in loss of oil trade will not make things dandy.

I see Russias civil airlines are doing well, with all this trade to Iran.  Heck, Iran was sanctioned for 30 years because US didnt like them, then EU sanctioned them.  So what makes them think they wont get sanctioned again? Good luck buying spares.  Iranians died by a lot of plane crashes due to poor maintenance.  Lack of spare parts.  Not just from Russian jets either.

That's why it's called carrots. Iran bets on putting a carrot between the US and EU. That's as needed as buying from Rasha.

The other issue is also that the real problem for Iran is the banking sector. While Russia can fight back to a point Iran can't.

with the lifting of sanctions Iran doesn't want to isolate itself by only giving deals to Russia who currently has a raft of sanctions against it, Iran is on the path to try and win hearts and minds, if you think about it if it srikes up deals with many countries and gains a lot of investment as well, how many countries in the future are likely want to agree to sanctions when they have invested money into Iran and sign deals for Billions of $, but if they didnt have any deals etc then they would be more likely to agree to sanctions in the future. Iran wants to show the world it isn't a bad country that the USA, Israel and the media has been portraying, the more infulence Iran can exude the better. But Iran will want to re-arm its armed forces and quickly Russia, China and Belarus are the only countries that would be willing to do so. So i wouldnt be surprised if deals start to roll soon, but Iran can't be seen to hammer out massive arms deal as soon as the sanctions have been lifted as this would show it in a bad light proving to the world the USA, Israel and the media to be right that Iran wants to be an aggressive country. I just hope that Iran sticks to buying Russian made equipment after what Russia has done for them, and i certainly hope that it won't waste anymore money on its crappy home grown sub-standard aircraft, and instead buy Mig-29/35, Su-30/35, and Su-34 instead.

The current contracts contain little or no technology transfer but only consumption of products. These agreements also hurt the Iranian economy. See the contracts for the purchase of railway cars. This presented Iran in good quality here itself. The purchase is not necessary here and happened anyway.

A production line for TU204 / 214 in Iran would be the better way. 24 aircraft will be purchased and produced in Iran itself, further 24 from Russia. For this purpose, 2x24 as an option. This creates the look young well-educated people in Iran jobs and the country increases its quality in aircraft and the whole production line in this area.

The same could do together in the field of SoC ARM Iran with Russia. Or in the field of shipbuilding.

The government Rohani's pro West and that means also to loads as a market currying the Iranian development and jobs. What Achmadinischad wanted strictly and manufacturing declined in their own country itself makes Rohani broken now.

Also I see a serious suspicion that 32 billion US Dollar which has now been released must be spent in the West first. That is probably a clandestine Bedigung and a further test.