Iran–Russia strategic economic partnership

Militarov wrote:

GunshipDemocracy wrote:

Militarov wrote: Its not like Iran wants 100 liners in 2 years. They will obtain them though probably though 10 years deal or something of a sort. Russia could do the same with no particular issues.

Russia does not manufacture wide-body liners, if Iran buys MS-21 so this takes 2x longer then airbus.
Tu-204? how many per year now 1-2? can be max 8? so 100 in 15 years including developing prod capabilities?

They are just pragmatic. and nobody says they will not buy from Russia more nuclear PPs or even MS-21 one will be available.

I dont think Iran wants 100 wide body liners in a first place. They will most likely buy number of Airbus320Neo and some amount of wide bodys, they do not need 100 Airbus A330s, at least i dont see why would they.

They would not be interested in Tupolev for sure, here we are talking about Sukhoi 100, which can be produced in probably over 20 per year with no issues, maybe even more if orders existed. If they buy now Airbus, they will never again buy Russian liners simply due to logistics it would be too expencive and messy. They would have bought Russian liners if they had to before sanctions, now when they have ability to choose the wont.

Precisely. Russia screw it royally with Iran. It's still beyond me why Iran can't have indigenous nuclear arsenal. The haven't done any attacking wars the last 200 years in contrary they have been on defense countless times.  They have the population of France and some 6 times greater area, they are the biggest country of the Shia world and it's one of the most historic, oldest and greatest nations on the planet. For Russia and China to go along with the jewish paranoia was inconceivable by me from the very beginning.

Don't get your hopes too high with IRAN "partnership" with Russia.
They are openly pushing for a Gas pipeline to Europe to replace Russia Gazprom business
there. The president said recently *is ready* to replace Europe dependence on Russia Gas
Energy business with its own pipeline and is calling for Investors.. This is like the the 10th time
he calls for European investors to jump in the project and help them destroy Russia energy business with Europe..  The IRANIAN rats will stab anyone including Russia
if they could get a profit from it.  

and buying technology from Europe like there is no tomorrow, that also Russia could provide ,but choose with them. Like the dozens of Airbus planes . Simply Russia cannot look at Iran at any
other way than sales and nothing more.

Imagine that you have a restaurant for a decade in a key zone..and then a
so called "allied nation" goes and mount another restaurant right in front of yours to take away clients from you? What kind of "partners" and "friends" are that? it is really disgusting the
kind of ethics of the Iranian snakes , Russia helped them to get out of the sanctions and the first thing they do is stab Russia in the back.  THis is the only reason Kerry and Obama are talking
to IRAN , and lifted the sanctions to use IRAN to steal Russia business with Europe.

So don't get your hopes with the iranian rats in any alliance with Russia.
They betrayed Syria for 5 years ,even though they had a defense pact to help each other
and IRAN did nothing to help Syria fight the terrorist that Israel and Turkey send across borders. It is only when Russia jump to help that iran select a dozen hundred of volunteer
mercenaries that are not even Iranians but Iraquis.  So much for the Iranian "partnership".
Russia should not lower its guard with IRAN , is a living snake that will betray Russia at the first
opportunity or deal they receive from the west.  My view about IRAN is similar to North korea ,
is a regime that needs to fall and its dictator fanatical leadership both kim jon um and the Ayatola needs to be remove and a real secular free modern nation put in place. And down with the "Religious" fanatical states that impose by force or violence their ideas on all the population.
And neither i believe they should be allowed to have Nuclear weapons ,neither Israel. or Pakistan or North Korea.

Hannibal Barca wrote:

Precisely. Russia screw it royally with Iran. It's still beyond me why Iran can't have indigenous nuclear arsenal. The haven't done any attacking wars the last 200 years in contrary they have been on defense countless times.  They have the population of France and some 6 times greater area, they are the biggest country of the Shia world and it's one of the most historic, oldest and greatest nations on the planet. For Russia and China to go along with the jewish paranoia was inconceivable by me from the very beginning.

Iran is buying planes and giving money to (France) the same nations responsible for the war
against their allies Syria. Imagine if Syria began to close relations with Israel ,and start
giving spending money in Israel ,money they can use to buy more bombs against Palestinians,
would that be a betray to IRAN? of course it will.. And IRAN are seeking to get a pipeline with Turkey to Europe to help not only Erdogan economy to shutdown more Russian planes ,but to also damage Russia Gas business with Europe.

Iranian are RATS plain and simple , they marry with no one and their loyalty is with words
not actions. 5 years after Syria in the middle of a war , and not a single Iranian soldier sent
to Syria to fight , only volunteers iraquis and permega kurds. It was Putin who told Assad how
he have been left Alone without any neighbors help. So the message for Russia and so Syria
should be to have zero commitment with the Iranians . Syria got in trouble with Israel for following Iran interest and it blowback at them.. Assad was asked by Americans to end its relations with IRAN and make peace with Israel in 2011 ,before the foreign CIA revolution began. And he refused to not damage relations with IRAN.. and see how IRAN now behaves
that was given a chance to boost its economy. This is why Russia should never move a finger
for IRAN ,not even if the whole country is nuked by Israel.. Traitors that put in second place
the relations with their allies ,when an economic offer show up ,show not be defended.

If it was not by Russia airforce in Syria ,the Iranians will have never sent a single fighter to Syria. and IRAN have an obligation to defend Syria in case of war since they both have a defense pact for years..

and no im not suggesting any friendship with Israel , but Syria could have played better its cards and even avoided a war ,if just ditched IRAN and Hezbolah friendship and remain neutral nation in change for be left alone and in peace. Israel is attacking Syria ,helped organize the
CIA revolution , simply because of Syria relation with IRAN and Hezbolah. Moral of the Story ,
no nation in middle east ,neither Russia , should make any pact with the Iranian rats.
They will only operate only if anything is good profits for them.. and leave any relations for second or third place.

Vann7 wrote:

Hannibal Barca wrote:

Precisely. Russia screw it royally with Iran. It's still beyond me why Iran can't have indigenous nuclear arsenal. The haven't done any attacking wars the last 200 years in contrary they have been on defense countless times.  They have the population of France and some 6 times greater area, they are the biggest country of the Shia world and it's one of the most historic, oldest and greatest nations on the planet. For Russia and China to go along with the jewish paranoia was inconceivable by me from the very beginning.

Iran is buying planes and giving money to (France) the same nations responsible for the war
against their allies Syria.  Imagine if Syria began to close relations with Israel ,and start
giving spending money in Israel ,money they can use to buy more bombs against Palestinians,
would that be a betray to IRAN?  of course it will..  And IRAN are seeking to get a pipeline with Turkey to Europe to help not only Erdogan economy to shutdown more Russian planes ,but to also damage Russia Gas business with Europe.

Iranian are RATS plain and simple , they marry with no one and their loyalty is with words
not actions. 5 years after Syria in the middle of a war , and not a single Iranian soldier sent
to Syria to fight , only volunteers iraquis and permega kurds.  It was Putin who told Assad how
he have been left Alone without any neighbors help. So the message for Russia and so Syria
should be to have zero commitment with the Iranians .  Syria got in trouble with Israel for following Iran interest and it blowback at them.. Assad was asked by Americans to end its relations with IRAN and make peace with Israel in 2011 ,before the foreign CIA revolution began. And he refused to not damage relations with IRAN.. and see how IRAN now behaves
that was given a chance to boost its economy. This is why Russia should never move a finger
for IRAN ,not even if the whole country is nuked by Israel.. Traitors that put in second place
the relations with their allies ,when an economic offer show up ,show not be defended.

If it was not by Russia airforce in Syria ,the Iranians will have never sent a single fighter to Syria. and IRAN have an obligation to defend Syria in case of war since they both have a defense pact for years..

and no im not suggesting any friendship with Israel , but Syria could have played better its cards and even avoided a war ,if just ditched IRAN and Hezbolah friendship and remain neutral nation in change for be left alone and in peace.  Israel is attacking Syria ,helped organize the
CIA revolution , simply because of Syria relation with IRAN and Hezbolah. Moral of the Story ,
no nation in middle east ,neither Russia , should make any pact with the Iranian rats.
They will only operate only if anything is good profits for them.. and leave any relations for second or third place.

Let's not forget that Russia was also in on sanctions on Iran, remember when Medevev was having picnics in the US, the rest of your logic is just stupid.

As mentioned... Iran has been in prison rightly or wrongly and has to garner favour with friends and enemies to make sure they don't get put back again rightly or wrongly.

Iran was never going to be a new best buddy ally for Russia in the region... they have their own interests, just as Russia does.

The thing is that russia no longer has an ideology to push... just like China is not spreading communism wherever it goes, Russia no longer has that lodestone around its neck.

This means that Iran will have less problems in future with trade with Russia, but most trade deals of military and non military natures have strings attached. Iran buying airbuses is more than just buying civilian aircraft... it is an economic link with France that may be useful in the future if the US gets shitty and wants to put the sanctions back in place...

Either way, Iran is getting back open for business, which means another country that has some money to spend, a military force to upgrade with either military purchases or joint venture upgrades of existing systems and weapons. Previously Russia was not that successful, but in he near future I think they will be more so simply because they offer much better products now and are still reasonably priced. They are also in the process of rebuilding and upgrading their military forces so they can share a lot of information and offer partnerships rather than client customer type relationships.

Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E wrote:The current contracts contain little or no technology transfer but only consumption of products. These agreements also hurt the Iranian economy. See the contracts for the purchase of railway cars. This presented Iran in good quality here itself. The purchase is not necessary here and happened anyway.

A production line for TU204 / 214 in Iran would be the better way. 24 aircraft will be purchased and produced in Iran itself, further 24 from Russia. For this purpose, 2x24 as an option. This creates the look young well-educated people in Iran jobs and the country increases its quality in aircraft and the whole production line in this area.

This would require active push form Russian leadership, let´s agree invisible hand of free market is as real as Superman.

Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E wrote:
Also I see a serious suspicion that 32 billion US Dollar which has now been released must be spent in the West first. That is probably a clandestine Bedigung and a further test.

Me thinks too. Most probably this is a reason for gradual release of tranches.

Iran buys up to 127 Airbus aircraft

http://www.interfax.ru/business/491328

Moscow. On 25 January. INTERFAX.RU – Iran intends to modernize the civil air fleet and plans to buy up to 127 aircraft by the European aircraft company Airbus, reports Deutsche Welle.

The contract for the supply of machines may be signed in January. The Iranian side expects to receive the aircraft between 2016 and 2022, said Deputy Minister of transport and urban development of the country Fahriye Asghar Kashan.

Tehran is interested in buying 16 aircraft, the A350, designed for long distance flights, as well as other models - the A320, A330, A340. According to him, Iran is also ready to order the 8's biggest aircraft A380.

The country's leadership also is considering the acquisition of 100 aircraft of the American company Boeing.

Previously imposed U.S. trade sanctions against Iran remain in force, however, the Boeing Corporation can apply for a special exception to the rule. At the same time the representative of the American aviation concern stated that until a decision on the sale of aircraft to Iran will have to overcome many stages, reports the BBC.

Transport Minister of Iran Abbas Akhundi stated that the Airbus deal will be signed Monday during the visit of President Hassan Rouhani in Paris, write to Iranian media.

According to representatives of Western countries and Tehran, in the coming decade, Iran will need at least 400 aircraft to update the fleet of the country. The average age of Iran's civil aircraft is approximately 27 years.

European authorities have banned all Iranian aircraft in addition to 12 aircraft to use the airspace of EU countries due to the harmonization of international safety standards in civil aviation.

On the Iran Air website contains the information that its fleet consists of 43 aircraft. Iran Air has the compartment for cargo and low-cost subsidiary airline.

Fundi previously said that out of a total of 250 aircraft only 150 able to rise into the air. According to him, Iran will need at least 400 aircraft medium and long range, and 100 aircraft to service shorter routes. The Minister expressed the hope that the new European aircraft brand Airbus will start to arrive in the country at the end of March.

So Iran orders 127 airbus and eventually 100 Boeings but needs 500 planes ...so Russia will not get its share? I would not be so sure

GarryB wrote:As mentioned... Iran has been in prison rightly or wrongly and has to garner favour with friends and enemies to make sure they don't get put back again rightly or wrongly.

Iran was never going to be a new best buddy ally for Russia in the region... they have their own interests, just as Russia does.

The thing is that russia no longer has an ideology to push... just like China is not spreading communism wherever it goes, Russia no longer has that lodestone around its neck.

This means that Iran will have less problems in future with trade with Russia, but most trade deals of military and non military natures have strings attached.  Iran buying airbuses is more than just buying civilian aircraft... it is an economic link with France that may be useful in the future if the US gets shitty and wants to put the sanctions back in place...

Zionist push is so strong that Russia denied sales of S-300 and France Mistral. So buying is not really proof no sanctions happens again.

BTW China is spreading communism:face: ?

France has long lobbied for lifting the sanctions on Iran.

As far as under Chirac, which publicly said it wasn't even a problem if Iran got nukes... France was actually (out of the west) the one hurt the most by the sanctions in bilateral trade.

So that's not surprising, long and deep links too.



(Iconic photo of Khomeini coming back from is exile... Plane is an Airbus, crew is Air France, pilot helping him is french. Spend his last exile years in France).

Russia wins from the strategic point of view (having a better Iranian economy and having them in the SCO means a stronger ally in the middle east), France wins commercially... (I warn you so that you won't go " Putin is a traitor" France will likely get the nuclear deal too... because of a prior engagement. French enrichment industry was initially a joint Iranian/French project and funded mostly by Iranian oil money. France literally OWES Iran tons of enriched Uranium...)

It's likely going to be a mix of Russian and French that gets most contracts, possibly one big for the US if there was something they really were interested in.

That's how diplomacy works.

sepheronx wrote:http://sputniknews.com/politics/20160127/1033760242/canada-iran-sanctions.html

Canada wants to get in on the Iran aircraft market.  Don't forget, our crappy C-400's finally lost out in the end and Sukhoi Super Jet and MS-21 is a far better deal.  I guarantee you though Iran will go for it because of being simply vassals now.

I like alot Bombardier Global series, they can be modified to suit multiple military roles too http://businessaircraft.bombardier.com/en/aircraft/global/global6000.html

GunshipDemocracy wrote:Iran buys up to 127 Airbus aircraft

http://www.interfax.ru/business/491328

Moscow. On 25 January. INTERFAX.RU – Iran intends to modernize the civil air fleet and plans to buy up to 127 aircraft by the European aircraft company Airbus, reports Deutsche Welle.

The contract for the supply of machines may be signed in January. The Iranian side expects to receive the aircraft between 2016 and 2022, said Deputy Minister of transport and urban development of the country Fahriye Asghar Kashan.

Tehran is interested in buying 16 aircraft, the A350, designed for long distance flights, as well as other models - the A320, A330, A340. According to him, Iran is also ready to order the 8's biggest aircraft A380.

The country's leadership also is considering the acquisition of 100 aircraft of the American company Boeing.

Previously imposed U.S. trade sanctions against Iran remain in force, however, the Boeing Corporation can apply for a special exception to the rule. At the same time the representative of the American aviation concern stated that until a decision on the sale of aircraft to Iran will have to overcome many stages, reports the BBC.

Transport Minister of Iran Abbas Akhundi stated that the Airbus deal will be signed Monday during the visit of President Hassan Rouhani in Paris, write to Iranian media.

According to representatives of Western countries and Tehran, in the coming decade, Iran will need at least 400 aircraft to update the fleet of the country. The average age of Iran's civil aircraft is approximately 27 years.

European authorities have banned all Iranian aircraft in addition to 12 aircraft to use the airspace of EU countries due to the harmonization of international safety standards in civil aviation.

On the Iran Air website contains the information that its fleet consists of 43 aircraft. Iran Air has the compartment for cargo and low-cost subsidiary airline.

Fundi previously said that out of a total of 250 aircraft only 150 able to rise into the air. According to him, Iran will need at least 400 aircraft medium and long range, and 100 aircraft to service shorter routes. The Minister expressed the hope that the new European aircraft brand Airbus will start to arrive in the country at the end of March.

So Iran orders 127 airbus and eventually 100 Boeings but needs 500 planes ...so Russia will not get its share? I would not be so sure

You know, i am gonna laugh when the U.S decides to forbid France from exporting such "sensitive" aircraft to Iran.

AlfaT8 wrote: You know, i am gonna laugh when the U.S decides to forbid France from exporting such "sensitive" aircraft to Iran.

Depending on how close US bankruptcy is might be only "compensation for CO2" emissions or similar kinda BS

So Iran orders 127 airbus and eventually 100 Boeings but needs 500 planes ...so Russia will not get its share? I would not be so sure

The advantage Russia will have is that they can offer domestic production for Iran so it can boost its own local industries as well as expand its transport fleet.

Zionist push is so strong that Russia denied sales of S-300 and France Mistral. So buying is not really proof no sanctions happens again.

It will never guarantee to make Iran sanction proof but it creates supporters within countries that have vested interests to block sanctions motivated by politics. For the Mistral case, the ship builders in France are clearly not as powerful as the agriculture section in France. It would be interesting to see what Russia got for not delivering S-300s to Iran...

BTW China is spreading communism:face: ?

Please re read what I wrote. Chinas commercial export success is in part because it is not trying to impose its ideology along with selling and buying products. Russia does not have an ideology to sell now either, so it should be in the same situation.

(I warn you so that you won't go " Putin is a traitor" France will likely get the nuclear deal too... because of a prior engagement. French enrichment industry was initially a joint Iranian/French project and funded mostly by Iranian oil money. France literally OWES Iran tons of enriched Uranium...)

Funny you mention that because it was Iranian money that designed and built the UK Challenger tank with its Chobham armour... the british would have been stuck with crap tanks if it wasn't for Iran.

GarryB wrote:

So Iran orders 127 airbus and eventually 100 Boeings but needs 500 planes ...so Russia will not get its share? I would not be so sure

The advantage Russia will have is that they can offer domestic production for Iran so it can boost its own local industries as well as expand its transport fleet.

I agree that offsetting parts of aircraft production would help similarly as in india. With mutual benefit. In current state Russian actor need some time to reach peak. It is not only matter of machines but processes, skilled engineers/workers and capital...

GarryB wrote:

Zionist push is so strong that Russia denied sales of S-300 and France Mistral. So buying is not really proof no sanctions happens again.

It will never guarantee to make Iran sanction proof but it creates supporters within countries that have vested interests to block sanctions motivated by politics. For the Mistral case, the ship builders in France are clearly not as powerful as the agriculture section in France. It would be interesting to see what Russia got for not delivering S-300s to Iran...

Taking account on length of sanctions agricultural lobby is not powerful enough either.

i don't quite follow vann's vitriol against iran. the lifting of sanctions means that iran will now trade freely with ALL countries including Russia... as middle eastern nations they are acutely aware that they need to "spread" orders around even in unfavourable deals for the sake of buying economic/political legitimacy around the world. There's nothing wrong with that really. There'll definitely be business collaboration with Russia going forward AS WELL AS with other nations... as is the norm.

With regards to the question of airliners, I would say that Sukhoi have to slowly and surely build up brand awareness to build up its base in this very competitive and increasingly crowded market... with airbus, boeing, bombardier, embraer and now china and japan also muscling in to the short haul jet sector picking up business will depend a lot on financing deals, service facilities, uptime guarantees .... all producers are scrambling to do the exact same thing, and really there's not that much marginal difference in cost per passenger mile between all the offerings.... financing / leasing / insurance costs are probably a bigger factor than the planes themselves. Russian manufacturers need to come up with better finance / lease / insurance packages to make their products viable... when competing with the very financialised european / american offerings.

sheytanelkebir wrote:i don't quite follow vann's vitriol against iran. the lifting of sanctions means that iran will now trade freely with ALL countries including Russia... as middle eastern nations they are acutely aware that they need to "spread" orders around even in unfavourable deals for the sake of buying economic/political legitimacy around the world. There's nothing wrong with that really. There'll definitely be business collaboration with Russia going forward AS WELL AS with other nations... as is the norm.

With regards to the question of airliners, I would say that Sukhoi have to slowly and surely build up brand awareness to build up its base in this very competitive and increasingly crowded market... with airbus, boeing, bombardier, embraer and now china and japan also muscling in to the short haul jet sector picking up business will depend a lot on financing deals, service facilities, uptime guarantees .... all producers are scrambling to do the exact same thing, and really there's not that much marginal difference in cost per passenger mile between all the offerings.... financing / leasing / insurance costs are probably a bigger factor than the planes themselves.

Same here wtf?

He was possibly assuming that because the primary force behind the sanctions in the first place were western that perhaps that would be the last place they would spend their money once the sanctions were stopped.

Forgetting of course that Russia and Iran were never best buddies anyway and that Russia supported the sanctions too.

sepheronx wrote: But sourcing parts to India isnt actually helping Russia.  Instead, India wants to purchase more western systems even if it means no localized production which we are seeing, and then at same time demanding 50/50 share in a project they didnt fund or even develop anything for it.

And even the fact Russia offered Iran co production of SSJ-100, they are still buying other countries aircrafts.

As for the claim that bombardier has a setup already - thats a joke. i live in Canada so I may have a better clue here but Bombardier is a fricking mess of a company and nearly went bankrupt more than one time.  Now for the failure the C400 was, it needs bailing out again.

I am not saying Iran want spend billions in Russia and only there!  My point is let´s wait,  csome aces still can be in sleeve.  Please not ethat:

1) Why offset in production is bad? first Russia factories have no needed thru-put yet. Second production of parts for Russian planes requires assuming Russian standards, materials processes.  Besides you get automatically a partner inside country who wants to cooperate with you.

2) Sukhoi Civil part was according to press on verge of bankruptcy...

3) True Russia offered production according to press  but how many business delegations or incentives were given to Iran we do not know. My guess is that for some reason there is no visible push from Russia govt to help negotiate with Iran non military deals?

GarryB wrote:He was possibly assuming that because the primary force behind the sanctions in the first place were western that perhaps that would be the last place they would spend their money once the sanctions were stopped.

Forgetting of course that Russia and Iran were never best buddies anyway and that Russia supported the sanctions too.

Probably you´re right but I would rather say there is no love in intl relations only interest. Iran in foreseable future might be close to Russia but helping with deals (finacing?) also helps.

Was this ever confirmed, or was it denied?

Iran to buy Russian aerospace equipment and planes worth $21bln - report

magnumcromagnon wrote:Was this ever confirmed, or was it denied?

Iran to buy Russian aerospace equipment and planes worth $21bln - report

Never signed at least not for liners. Maybe some equipment will be sold tho, but liners seems like nope.

KAZAN, February 3. /TASS/. Russian truck maker Kamaz is ready to resume truck assembling in Iran. The assembly line of Kamaz worked in Iran from 2007 to 2010, Chief Executive of Kamaz Foreign Trade Company Rafail Gafeev told TASS on Wednesday.

More:
http://tass.ru/en/economy/854256

So when is Iran actually going to buy something from Russia? So far they are making deals with the West and China only.

George1 wrote:KAZAN, February 3. /TASS/. Russian truck maker Kamaz is ready to resume truck assembling in Iran. The assembly line of Kamaz worked in Iran from 2007 to 2010, Chief Executive of Kamaz Foreign Trade Company Rafail Gafeev told TASS on Wednesday.

More:
http://tass.ru/en/economy/854256

UVZ is ready to organize in Iran for licensed production of T-90S tanks
http://ria.ru/defense_safety/20160203/1369148833.html

In addition to licensed production of tanks, Uralvagonzavod is also interested to work in Iran for infrastructure projects in urban and rail transport, said earlier the management of the Corporation.

I hope this is just a beginning not all of exchange.