Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #9

franco wrote:It appears that Russian troops had to directly intervene to prevent the fall of the T-4 military airfield to the ISIS, who are claiming today that they destroyed 4 helicopters and 20 trucks on the ground in their attack.

https://www.almasdarnews.com/article/russian-marines-syrian-army-gain-ground-isis-eastern-homs/

There never was a risk to T4, they lost 3 SVBIED according to reddit about 2km from the base. Mil Mi 28 were involved.

KoTeMoRe wrote:

medo wrote:

OminousSpudd wrote:

Werewolf wrote:I don't know what kind of koolaid people have been consuming over the years but this retardation of "just old soviet weapons" nonsense is giving me cancer.

Soviet weapons to till this date one among the best that have been created, often with no equivalents in the west.

I think because the US had so much time to catch up after fall of Soviet Onion and so much more money to spend, its almost comical when their stuff gets shredded by "old, rusted, weak-Russia techknowledgy". It seems propaganda does not make your military gear any stronker than normal.

Specially if we also take into account, that UAE Mirage-2000 was shot down by old Strela-2 (SAM-7) in Yemen.

Actually that's not the worst. Worst is w still don't know how did that F15E of the RSAF lose its CFM during combat mission...

Well most sources claim it was puncture that caused tearing of the material.

Kadmos45 wrote:Does Russia have even clear strategy in Syria ?

Western backed terrorists will not disband on it's own, and it is obvious that SAA can't destroy them without massive help, which is forbidden due to this another insane "ceasefire".
Classical Catch-22 unfortunately.

Russia didn't have one earlier, but now they do have. It is with a planning that they entered the Syrian theatre in Sep 2015.
Unless the Syrian or Iranian air forces (which I will put below those of Syrian) attain significant capability the only option is for Russian support.

PapaDragon wrote:SAA already receives massive help and are still unable to accomplish anything remotely significant. Even after 5 years they still drive tanks straight into ATGMs without any infantry cover or recon. And when fired upon they scatter immediately without even shooting back.

Generalising situation will do no help. Coz we sitting in comfort away from the battlefield and without knowing the actual circumstances and

Russia already secured everything it needed. All that is left for them to do now is some geopolitical PR and jihadi headhunt.

PR?
With only a single (& crappy) English language visual media Russia can pull off a successful PR campaign? NO!

Why should Russians bleed for Syrian nation? Syrians definitely do not plan to bleed for Syria that much is clear as day.

I have seen such comments earlier also in this forum and to me it looks very stupid and selfish.... let me ask

WTF should Russian forces be there in Armenia and Transnistria???
Give them the weapons and let them fight it out if they want. Why should the Russians bleed for them??

Dont want to be harsh... but compared to Syria, Armenia and Transnistira have ZERO strategic value. You loose Syria you loose any foothold in the Mediterranean and the southern waters. And from there on it can only get worse for Russia.

How it goes from here depends solely on Syria and Iran. They either stop screwing around and start doing their job or some other solution emerges.

No one is screwing around or others here....its just that international terrorists changed their tactics and for a reversal (with minimal casualities) the big boy Russian airpower is needed, coz the other two still doesnt have it on that level. Iran even lower compared to Syria.

Militarov wrote:





"Project 141 Kashtan class KIL158 carried two patrol boats to Tartus Syria, possibly 2xProjekt 03160 Raptor"

So seems after all those were actually two Project ПВ1415 counter-sabouter fast boats, П-331 and П-407:

more Mustafas in Turkey I can se that parties with justice in names are populated by Russophobic morons also in Turkey


The Turkish Deputy has suggested to shoot down another Russian plane
http://ria.ru/world/20160516/1433864207.html

MOSCOW, may 16 — R-Sport. The Deputy of the Turkish Parliament Shamil Tayyar very painfully react to victory over CSKA Moscow in Istanbul Fenerbahce in the final of the basketball Euroleague. MP from Turkey's ruling party – the Party of justice and development is proposed to repeat the attack on the Russian VKS.

GarryB wrote:Russia can either support Syria or it can leave it to the western supported wolves.

At the end of the day Russia does not need to send in a huge amount of ground forces... its air support and ground based advisors should be enough to win.

It allows maximum support without risking too many soldiers.

If Russia sends in ground troops then the US will just do to them what they did to the Soviets in Afghanistan, and what the Soviets did to the Americans in Vietnam and Korea.

If Russia keeps using air power efficiently and effectively then the Syrian ground troops will prevail.

If Russia leaves then the US backed enemy will take over and there will be another country in the ME hostile to Russia... which will also undermine Iran as well.

It is also an opportunity to test tactics and weapons systems... and indeed to base S-400 systems next to Turkey... which is very much getting your own back...  

I presume mani contradict infos have little to do with real status. Like Russians left Syria,,,Russians left Iran... some western info war some "homemade experts" (like in Russian kp.ru - Saudis reform economy and Russia not, till 2030 Saudis´ economy is independent on oli. And oil will be cheaper and cheaper. What contradict facts but thenbad for facts:twisted: such idiot should be executed for treachery)

or some Russian intel to confuse enemies,,,

Another short video Tiger Forces with Russian advisers near Shaer Gas Fields. Rumor has it that ISIS may have blown something big up there resulting in a 4.4 magnitude earthquake.

https://twitter.com/syria_protector/status/732158778230112256

Zivo wrote:

I see they remembered to turn Shotra on this time

I don't understand neither CHina and India lame policies of if its not with us the problem
then we will ignore it. And Iranian weak support for Syria neither they can do far better a few hundreds advisors and 2,000 iraqui militia volunteers.. What happens in Syria is a Direct Threat to China and India too and even more to IRAN.  Americans and its coalition are simply
in an undeclared war against any Non Aligned Nation with NATO and US imperialism and they are invading those countries using Islamic extremist they recruit ,train and provide weapons.

So if ISIS or Alqaeda or Moderates cannibals/headchoppers that obama ,erdogan and nutanyahu sponsor in Syria are allowed to over run Syria. It will be really Dangerous for them, they will be
next. You will have then Syria and later IRAQ to fall too ,and now they will be able to use the oil
to finance an army of a million of terrorist. From the entire world ,that can attack China or IRAN ,or India.

So what China,India and IRAN are doing ,will be similar as if a gang of serial killers enters your city and then move to your neighborhood and they start murdering every family in city one after another ,without being stopped , not far from your house and you are aware that police will not come to the help and you simply turn around and say its not my problem.    Totally ignoring that what happens in Syria ,will happen to in their country later too for being not aligned with American Imperialism. They could be helping Syria and IRAQ with humanitarian help , with weapons ,with drones , or sending to the Syrian army night vision equipment or donating a few  t-72 tanks. they could even send a
recong warship or plane to help Russia ,with monitoring the movement of NATO airforce and Navy. So many things they can do. Donate equipment to fight terrorist or money to help Russia with the burden of the war ,even humanitarian help,will be a help. will mean Russia will not have to use its economy  too ,to feed Syria. without risking a single soldier life and they do nothing most of them.. There is no excuse for most of them to leave alone Russia ,because this is something
that will affect the entire world.  I really think Putin  have been a Disaster
is convincing its allied nations to cooperate with their 2-3 faction coalition.

This only show that the so called Shangai Cooperation Organization ,or any other military force
are just garbage , it will do nothing in case one of their members need help. And This is what
encourage Americans to continue the war in Syria because see Russia virtually alone. Had China or INDIA show some support other than words , lets say a 200 hundred "trainers" each and make Americans and Turkey suspicious that both nations are amassing a big army in secret to over run terrorist position ,they will have clear ,that the Syrian war ,is a war they cannot win.
It will send memories of the korean war ,where they have to retreat after invaded Syria.

But the lack of Support of China and India , and the weak support of IRAN only encourage
Turkey ,US and SAudis to continue sending more weapons because Russia is alone and it doesn't have the economy to hold a big army in Syria.  So is really Shameful , and disgusting
India and China irresponsible Behavior in the world. The war in Syria is on their interest that it ends ,because a victory of ISIS or Alqaeda will mean ,they will be re exported to another non aligned nation with NATO and win.

NATO is now interfering in Lybia again , watch Algeria or Egypt , they will experience freedom
fighters invasions too. India and China are a bunch of idiots. and do not deserve any advance military hardware from Russia at all ,since they make no difference with their foreign policies.

There is zero Excuse for China and India to be so distanced from the war in Syria ,when they could help a lot Russia without sending a single soldier. if they so much scared of losing a life there. donation of drones , or a dozen of tanks could help. This also not to mention the invaluable experience their military could get ,by sending a few of military to Syria , volunteers
to help. the nations with highest population in the world more than 1 billion each ,cannot send not even 50 soldiers each one to help Russia fight terrorism. so pathetic.

Zivo wrote:

Is this a T-90 or T-90A and how do you tell between the two?

An awesome pic of the Ka-52, wonder how the people inside the house/building felt..  

Yusha Yuseef ‏@MIG29_ May 17
#Russian KA 52 in Tartous countryside

Is this a T-90 or T-90A and how do you tell between the two?

Turret

ultron wrote:

Zivo wrote:

Is this a T-90 or T-90A and how do you tell between the two?

Cast vs Welded turret

Dima wrote:An awesome pic of the Ka-52, wonder how the people inside the house/building felt..  

Yusha Yuseef ‏@MIG29_ May 17
#Russian KA 52 in Tartous countryside
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ciq32IDWEAAoLBV.jpg:large

I remember once when single engine Gazelle landed close to me on a medivac gig, it was not pleasant at all.

This monster is probably 10 times worse

Dima wrote:An awesome pic of the Ka-52, wonder how the people inside the house/building felt..  

Yusha Yuseef ‏@MIG29_ May 17
#Russian KA 52 in Tartous countryside

This picture is not from Syria. I don't think RuAF use Ka-52 prototype in Syria.

Militarov wrote:

ultron wrote:

Zivo wrote:

Is this a T-90 or T-90A and how do you tell between the two?

Cast vs Welded turret

Which one is that? Cast or welded?

Different take on the Syrian army from WiB. Not the best of sites but what do you make of these extracts with the claimed Russian contribution? Sounds a bit like Ukraine, a magic 10K, but this contains actual unit names. No data on the sources.

The 4th Assault Corps also includes the Nusr Az Zawba’a Brigade of the SSNP and two brigades of the Ba’ath Party Militia, or BPM. Because these units lacked in firepower, they were reinforced by Russian army artillery batteries drawn from the 8th Artillery Regiment, the 120th Artillery Brigade, the 439th Guards Rocket Artillery Brigade and the 20th Rocket Regiment — the latter equipped with the TOS-1A.

To lessen the strain upon this force, four battalion-size task forces — drawn from the Russian 28th, 32nd, and the 34th Motor Rifle Brigades and the 810th Marines Brigade — secured the secondary lines and supply depots.

...................................

Essentially, all are private military companies, financed by businessmen close to Al Assad. Their operations in the eastern Homs and Palmyra areas are supported by battalion-size elements of the Russian 61st Marine Brigade and the 74th Guards Motor Rifle Brigade.

.......................

Ironically, the IRGC’s fire brigade in this part of Syria is the Al Qods of the PLA Brigade. These units are supported by Russian army troops, too, including those from the 27th Guards Motor Rifle Brigade and the 7th Guards Assault Division and several artillery batteries.

..................

Correspondingly, there is hardly anything to be seen of the actual SAA and very little of the NDF. It’s unlikely that Al Assad has more than 70,000 troops left under his command.

On the contrary, while Iranians are said to have about 18,000 troops in Syria, considering the average size of the brigades they and Iraqi Shi’a are deploying there, they more likely to oversee at least 40,000 combatants.

On the top of this all, one should not ignore the Russian military presence, which is also larger than media usually report. In addition to the units listed above, Moscow’s forces include elements of no fewer than four Spetsnaz brigades — the 3rd, 16th, 22nd and 24th, primarily responsible for the Hmemmem and Sanobar air bases near Latakia and Shayrat air base in southeastern Homs.

All told, the Russians have at least 10,000 — and more likely up to 15,000 — troops in Syria.

https://warisboring.com/whats-left-of-the-syrian-arab-army-eec39485df43#.aa7myylwx

JohninMK wrote:Different take on the Syrian army from WiB. Not the best of sites but what do you make of these extracts with the claimed Russian contribution? Sounds a bit like Ukraine, a magic 10K, but this contains actual unit names. No data on the sources.

The 4th Assault Corps also includes the Nusr Az Zawba’a Brigade of the SSNP and two brigades of the Ba’ath Party Militia, or BPM. Because these units lacked in firepower, they were reinforced by Russian army artillery batteries drawn from the 8th Artillery Regiment, the 120th Artillery Brigade, the 439th Guards Rocket Artillery Brigade and the 20th Rocket Regiment — the latter equipped with the TOS-1A.

To lessen the strain upon this force, four battalion-size task forces — drawn from the Russian 28th, 32nd, and the 34th Motor Rifle Brigades and the 810th Marines Brigade — secured the secondary lines and supply depots.

...................................

Essentially, all are private military companies, financed by businessmen close to Al Assad. Their operations in the eastern Homs and Palmyra areas are supported by battalion-size elements of the Russian 61st Marine Brigade and the 74th Guards Motor Rifle Brigade.

.......................

Ironically, the IRGC’s fire brigade in this part of Syria is the Al Qods of the PLA Brigade. These units are supported by Russian army troops, too, including those from the 27th Guards Motor Rifle Brigade and the 7th Guards Assault Division and several artillery batteries.

..................

Correspondingly, there is hardly anything to be seen of the actual SAA and very little of the NDF. It’s unlikely that Al Assad has more than 70,000 troops left under his command.

On the contrary, while Iranians are said to have about 18,000 troops in Syria, considering the average size of the brigades they and Iraqi Shi’a are deploying there, they more likely to oversee at least 40,000 combatants.

On the top of this all, one should not ignore the Russian military presence, which is also larger than media usually report. In addition to the units listed above, Moscow’s forces include elements of no fewer than four Spetsnaz brigades — the 3rd, 16th, 22nd and 24th, primarily responsible for the Hmemmem and Sanobar air bases near Latakia and Shayrat air base in southeastern Homs.

All told, the Russians have at least 10,000 — and more likely up to 15,000 — troops in Syria.

https://warisboring.com/whats-left-of-the-syrian-arab-army-eec39485df43#.aa7myylwx

A whole lot of BS.

70,000 troops. No. The Lebanese Army is 100,000, and pulls from a much smaller population. SAA and NDF are going to be well over 100k

"On the contrary, while Iranians are said to have about 18,000 troops in Syria"... and only ~350 have been killed since the start of the war.

JohninMK wrote:Different take on the Syrian army from WiB. Not the best of sites but what do you make of these extracts with the claimed Russian contribution? Sounds a bit like Ukraine, a magic 10K, but this contains actual unit names. No data on the sources.

The 4th Assault Corps also includes the Nusr Az Zawba’a Brigade of the SSNP and two brigades of the Ba’ath Party Militia, or BPM. Because these units lacked in firepower, they were reinforced by Russian army artillery batteries drawn from the 8th Artillery Regiment, the 120th Artillery Brigade, the 439th Guards Rocket Artillery Brigade and the 20th Rocket Regiment — the latter equipped with the TOS-1A.

To lessen the strain upon this force, four battalion-size task forces — drawn from the Russian 28th, 32nd, and the 34th Motor Rifle Brigades and the 810th Marines Brigade — secured the secondary lines and supply depots.

...................................

Essentially, all are private military companies, financed by businessmen close to Al Assad. Their operations in the eastern Homs and Palmyra areas are supported by battalion-size elements of the Russian 61st Marine Brigade and the 74th Guards Motor Rifle Brigade.

.......................

Ironically, the IRGC’s fire brigade in this part of Syria is the Al Qods of the PLA Brigade. These units are supported by Russian army troops, too, including those from the 27th Guards Motor Rifle Brigade and the 7th Guards Assault Division and several artillery batteries.

..................

Correspondingly, there is hardly anything to be seen of the actual SAA and very little of the NDF. It’s unlikely that Al Assad has more than 70,000 troops left under his command.

On the contrary, while Iranians are said to have about 18,000 troops in Syria, considering the average size of the brigades they and Iraqi Shi’a are deploying there, they more likely to oversee at least 40,000 combatants.

On the top of this all, one should not ignore the Russian military presence, which is also larger than media usually report. In addition to the units listed above, Moscow’s forces include elements of no fewer than four Spetsnaz brigades — the 3rd, 16th, 22nd and 24th, primarily responsible for the Hmemmem and Sanobar air bases near Latakia and Shayrat air base in southeastern Homs.

All told, the Russians have at least 10,000 — and more likely up to 15,000 — troops in Syria.

https://warisboring.com/whats-left-of-the-syrian-arab-army-eec39485df43#.aa7myylwx

Interesting read, some truth but mostly would disagree in detail. The main truth is that the Syrian Army is weak. I have identified about 36 brigades and regiments...not 20 however other then the Tiger, Desert Hawks and Republican Guard brigades, most Syrian Army units are between 1-2,000 men. All the Russian units actually exist... in Russia. Wouldn't be surprised to find 4 battalions operating but in a defensive role unless absolutely necessary. An error in that TOS's are operated by Chemical flame throwing units, not Rocket Artillery. As for foreign troops suspect all the Iranian, Afghani, Iraqi, Palestinian and Lebanese volunteers would be hard pressed to equal the 18,000 Iranian figure quoted as the lesser amount.

It seems that the PKK has shut down 2 Turkish helicopters in a few days:

1 AH-1 Cobra
1 CH-47 Chinook

The weakness of the air platforms when Surface-Air weapons appear is evident, (as it was in Ukraine).

If someone wants to find the reasons why Russia will not fly very much in Syria, here is surely the most important. Russia will not take many risks for their aircrafts and helicopters. Turkey will have hard time flying in its own air space, but also the conditions will be worse for the rest.

Obviously the Syrian rebels have not Surface-Air weapons, because who is providing them the weapons want not them to be used against "Coalition" aircrafts (US, Israel,...). But who has these Surface-Air weapons need not to give them to rebels to use them against Russian aircrafts and helicopters from Syrian territory.

I think it is logical to see more Russian land warfare in Syria. Surely as military help or by Syrian purchase. I find very interesting to see the Iveco LMV on Syria. I would say that Russia wants to be free of this foreign semi-armoured truck.

eehnie wrote:It seems that the PKK has shut down 2 Turkish helicopters in a few days:

1 AH-1 Cobra
1 CH-47 Chinook

The weakness of the air platforms when Surface-Air weapons appear is evident, (as it was in Ukraine).

If someone wants to find the reasons why Russia will not fly very much in Syria, here is surely the most important. Russia will not take many risks for their aircrafts and helicopters. Turkey will have hard time flying in its own air space, but also the conditions will be worse for the rest.

Obviously the Syrian rebels have not Surface-Air weapons, because who is providing them the weapons want not them to be used against "Coalition" aircrafts (US, Israel,...). But who has these Surface-Air weapons need not to give them to rebels to use them against Russian aircrafts and helicopters from Syrian territory.

I think it is logical to see more Russian land warfare in Syria. Surely as military help or by Syrian purchase. I find very interesting to see the Iveco LMV on Syria. I would say that Russia wants to be free of this foreign semi-armoured truck.

Turks do not have Chinnok at this point. Few on order, none in service.

Militarov wrote:

eehnie wrote:It seems that the PKK has shut down 2 Turkish helicopters in a few days:

1 AH-1 Cobra
1 CH-47 Chinook

The weakness of the air platforms when Surface-Air weapons appear is evident, (as it was in Ukraine).

If someone wants to find the reasons why Russia will not fly very much in Syria, here is surely the most important. Russia will not take many risks for their aircrafts and helicopters. Turkey will have hard time flying in its own air space, but also the conditions will be worse for the rest.

Obviously the Syrian rebels have not Surface-Air weapons, because who is providing them the weapons want not them to be used against "Coalition" aircrafts (US, Israel,...). But who has these Surface-Air weapons need not to give them to rebels to use them against Russian aircrafts and helicopters from Syrian territory.

I think it is logical to see more Russian land warfare in Syria. Surely as military help or by Syrian purchase. I find very interesting to see the Iveco LMV on Syria. I would say that Russia wants to be free of this foreign semi-armoured truck.

Turks do not have Chinnok at this point. Few on order, none in service.

I saw it in a video on youtube, but I will not link it because maybe illegal where I'm. It is not difficult to find if you want.

Militarov wrote:

eehnie wrote:It seems that the PKK has shut down 2 Turkish helicopters in a few days:

1 AH-1 Cobra
1 CH-47 Chinook

The weakness of the air platforms when Surface-Air weapons appear is evident, (as it was in Ukraine).

If someone wants to find the reasons why Russia will not fly very much in Syria, here is surely the most important. Russia will not take many risks for their aircrafts and helicopters. Turkey will have hard time flying in its own air space, but also the conditions will be worse for the rest.

Obviously the Syrian rebels have not Surface-Air weapons, because who is providing them the weapons want not them to be used against "Coalition" aircrafts (US, Israel,...). But who has these Surface-Air weapons need not to give them to rebels to use them against Russian aircrafts and helicopters from Syrian territory.

I think it is logical to see more Russian land warfare in Syria. Surely as military help or by Syrian purchase. I find very interesting to see the Iveco LMV on Syria. I would say that Russia wants to be free of this foreign semi-armoured truck.

Turks do not have Chinnok at this point. Few on order, none in service.

At least one was reportedly delivered back in April I think. I remember that Boeing put the first one for Turkey on temporary display after it was finished in January (according to the company newsletter).

The video showed the PKK hitting the CH-47. But the Chinook was not seen crashing. The video might very well be real and I couldn't find anything older yet. After all how many videos are out there of CH-47s being shot at by MANPADs there are to begin with. The relative silence (compared to the AH-1W downing) about the incident leads me to believe that the Chinook survived.