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    Open Skies Treaty on observation flights

    SeigSoloyvov
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Tue Nov 24, 2020 9:30 pm

    George1 wrote:US to Officially End Participation in Open Skies Treaty on 22 November

    https://sputniknews.com/military/202011221081238550-us-to-officially-end-participation-in-open-skies-treaty-on-november-22/

    It was an outdated treaty anyways, sates do what the treaty was designed for but better and you can do it whenever you want
    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible Tue Nov 24, 2020 9:36 pm

    kvs wrote:I think that militarily the US can do f*ck all to Russia and even China.   These provocations will be about trying to make both China
    and Russia look bad if they retaliate.    The toilet called America needs to be contained.   It and its EU vassals are loud screamers
    but they are a rotten facade (a real one).  

    They are already losing the plot.   Looks like the butt hurt is there from failing to bait Russia into a military intervention in NK.
    But that just shows you how stupid the yanquis are.   They failed to bait Russia with Ukraine now they think that they can
    bait it with Armenia.

    Every day that goes by makes Russia and China stronger as the US and its PC-rotted vassals decay.


    Well, the Russians did say they like the Democrats cause they are easily predictable.

    So that means they are aware of their plans and know what to do. I trust the Russians on this. China on the other hand, I don't know.
    kvs
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    Post  kvs Tue Nov 24, 2020 10:07 pm

    Americans really are retards. Look at some of the comments on the web by these assholes. They knee jerk defend this
    gross violation and the subsequent ludicrous statement by a two-bit admiral by invoking "conflicts exist".

    What fucking conflict just south of Vladivostok you brain-deprived specimens? There are no territorial or other
    conflicts in this region. The only conflict is that being instigated by you scumbags.

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    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible Tue Nov 24, 2020 10:11 pm

    But that is what it is. It's a conflict they are willing to accept that they can start because they think they have some bs moral superiority.

    But what they don't realize is that there is a whole world out there and not everyone is exactly as gung ho as America is.

    Of course they will try again and again. Which will prompt response from china and Russia to start doing the same to them.

    Maybe Russia should up the game and state that they don't recognize the sale of Alaska to the US government.

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    Rodion_Romanovic
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Tue Nov 24, 2020 10:22 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:But that is what it is. It's a conflict they are willing to accept that they can start because they think they have some bs moral superiority.

    But what they don't realize is that there is a whole world out there and not everyone is exactly as gung ho as America is.

    Of course they will try again and again. Which will prompt response from china and Russia to start doing the same to them.

    Maybe Russia should up the game and state that they don't recognize the sale of Alaska to the US government.
    By the way, Alaska apart, were there russian settlements also in oregon and (state of) Washington?

    Anyway, if they continue with this process of hate promotion and ignoring the so called "white trash", the poor people that live in old motorhouses or similar, with no money, no prospects for the future, no need of safe space in colleges because they will never be able to afford it and will never receive any subsidies because they are nor black neither LGBT, I do not believe that the US can continue exist for long in the same form. Maybe in a few years the main worry will be the division of the military assets among the various post US nations and there will be Chinese or Russian officials supervising the dismantling of warheads and strategic bombers...
    SeigSoloyvov
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Tue Nov 24, 2020 11:13 pm

    Rodion_Romanovic wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:But that is what it is. It's a conflict they are willing to accept that they can start because they think they have some bs moral superiority.

    But what they don't realize is that there is a whole world out there and not everyone is exactly as gung ho as America is.

    Of course they will try again and again. Which will prompt response from china and Russia to start doing the same to them.

    Maybe Russia should up the game and state that they don't recognize the sale of Alaska to the US government.
    By the way, Alaska apart, were there russian settlements also in oregon and (state of) Washington?

    Anyway, if they continue with this process of hate promotion and ignoring the so called "white trash", the poor people that live in old motorhouses or similar, with  no money, no prospects for the future, no need of safe space in colleges because they will never be able to afford it and will never receive any subsidies because they are nor black neither LGBT, I do not believe that the US can continue exist for long in the same form. Maybe in a few years the main worry will be the division of the military assets among the various post US nations and there will be Chinese or Russian officials supervising the dismantling of warheads and strategic bombers...

    No, there was a very small place in California during the early 1800's it but that's it.

    Look up Fortress Ross.
    PhSt
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    Post  PhSt Tue Nov 24, 2020 11:23 pm

    I do not believe that the US can continue exist for long in the same form. Maybe in a few years the main worry will be the division of the military assets among the various post US nations and there will be Chinese or Russian officials supervising the dismantling of warheads and strategic bombers

    I'd love to see the United Swines collapse and get dismembered into tiny microstates. Hopefully sooner than later attack
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Wed Nov 25, 2020 4:03 am

    It was an outdated treaty anyways, sates do what the treaty was designed for but better and you can do it whenever you want

    The US complained about the new START treaty because there is little to no verification.

    The Open Skies Treaty was a US idea from the 50s or 60s that allows each side to fly over the territory of the other members to verify and check things closely.

    I rather suspect the US thinks it can withdraw and then get information on Russian territory from its allies still members of the programme and therefore deny Russia any rights to overfly areas in the US.

    Russia is not stupid, and while the agreement is useful, Russia wont be played like that...

    Satellites follow predictable regular paths and are carefully and continuously monitored... signals turn off and things are moved inside when satellites come over... if satellites could do it then there would never have been any reason for the agreement as both the US and Russia have satellites.

    Maybe Russia should up the game and state that they don't recognize the sale of Alaska to the US government.

    It would be like getting the Ukraine back or the Baltic states back... sounds better than it would actually turn out to be... hostile idiots who wont appreciate all the billions of dollars needed to fix their backwater fucked up ways, and they will complain you didn't spend more on them... and why have you stopped spending money on them...

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    SeigSoloyvov
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Wed Nov 25, 2020 5:19 am

    You do realize the open skies treated you had to notify the flight path a head if time and you could not go off that course....It was an outdated treaty that changes nothing for either side.
    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Fri Jan 15, 2021 2:58 pm

    Russia will withdraw from the Open Skies treaty

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    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Fri Jan 15, 2021 3:56 pm

    magnumcromagnon wrote:Russia will withdraw from the Open Skies treaty

    Wasn't this thing dead already?

    Cleaning up Gorby's/Yeltsin's mess will take longer than USSR existed...

    kvs
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    Post  kvs Fri Jan 15, 2021 4:44 pm

    magnumcromagnon wrote:Russia will withdraw from the Open Skies treaty

    The yanquis snookered themselves again. The losers in Washington actually thought Russia would feel the obligation to
    accommodate this relic for the sake of its relations with the EU. But everyone in Russia knows full well that the EU is
    an Amerislime appendage.

    BTW, there has been no revolution in LEO observation that would nullify the value of aircraft surveillance. Recall something
    called the ionosphere. It is a nice lid for EM (why long range OTHRs work) and in particular very low amplitude emissions.
    Surveillance is not all about scanning high res surface images.

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:56 am

    You do realize the open skies treated you had to notify the flight path a head if time and you could not go off that course....It was an outdated treaty that changes nothing for either side.

    The new planes the Russians were using frightened the shit out of the Americans... these flights not only had to notify of course and times well in advance but officials from the country being overflown were allowed on board the aircraft and were allowed to look at the information being collected.

    The new Russian planes are all new and high tech and way better than the aircraft the US and other western countries are using, so they withdrew.

    It is not about seeing secret prototype aircraft on the ground at airfields, it is more about counting tanks and vehicles in open storage and looking at new military facilities and how busy they appear to be and how much wear and tear on the roads leading to or away from certain bases etc etc.

    Russia will withdraw from the Open Skies Treaty after Europe refuses to give guarantees that the information received will not reach the United States. In the opinion of Russian experts, further participation of Russia in DON does not make sense.

    Pretty obvious and necessary response. No sense in giving the US access to Russian airspace via its european poodles and being denied the same access to US airspace.

    According to information received by Moscow, the United States, having withdrawn from the treaty, forced the allies to sign an agreement on the transfer of data received by these countries during flights over Russia.

    Dirty pricks. But wait a minute... if satellites do this anyway why would they need to force their allies to violate this treaty... which stipulates that information gained via this treaty is not shared with countries that are not members of the treaty...

    “The United Kingdom is disappointed with Russia's decision to initiate the procedures necessary to withdraw from the Open Skies Treaty after prolonged non-compliance with [its terms]. The Treaty makes a valuable contribution to European security by increasing the transparency of military activities and fostering trust between countries. The United Kingdom calls on Russia to reconsider this decision, to return to full compliance with the treaty and to interact constructively with its other participants, "a ministry representative told TASS.

    Hahahahaha... yeah... return to full compliance... WTF does that mean?

    Did the US tell them to say this?

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    kvs
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    Post  kvs Sat Jan 16, 2021 6:39 am

    These clowns should listen to themselves talk. Non-compliance would mean not allowing overflights by signatory countries.
    Let's see these UK dirtbags give a single example of non compliance.

    All of these accusations are Goebbels style propaganda. Keep repeating a lie enough times and the sheep will start to think it is
    the truth. But as I posted here many times, who gives a rat's ass if the western lemming audience is worked over with drivel
    about how bad Russia is. There is no net gain from this propaganda.

    SeigSoloyvov
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Sat Jan 16, 2021 7:21 am

    for the 3rd time, you can do all of that with satellites...the treaty was a product of technology limitations that have long since been surpassed.. It is completely redundant at this point, the US or Russia will lose anything from it going away.

    Also, no the planes they are making do not frighten the shit out of us but hey you think what you want.
    SeigSoloyvov
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Sat Jan 16, 2021 7:22 am

    kvs wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:Russia will withdraw from the Open Skies treaty

    The yanquis snookered themselves again.   The losers in Washington actually thought Russia would feel the obligation to
    accommodate this relic for the sake of its relations with the EU.    But everyone in Russia knows full well that the EU is
    an Amerislime appendage.

    BTW, there has been no revolution in LEO observation that would nullify the value of aircraft surveillance.   Recall something
    called the ionosphere.   It is a nice lid for EM (why long range OTHRs work) and in particular very low amplitude emissions.
    Surveillance is not all about scanning high res surface images.


    LoL no we did not think that, we knew they were going to ditch it. It's common sense.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sat Jan 16, 2021 7:38 am

    I seem to remember the US complained about Russia not letting them fly their open skies flights near South Ossetia and Abkhazia and a few other places as well, but they ignore that the rules show that they didn't have to allow the US to fly within 10km of foreign borders which is what the border between South Ossetia and Russia and the border between Abkhazia and Russia are.

    I seem to think Russia also objected to the US not allowing them to fly over specific places in the US... can't remember the details though...

    for the 3rd time, you can do all of that with satellites...the treaty was a product of technology limitations that have long since been surpassed.. It is completely redundant at this point, the US or Russia will lose anything from it going away.

    It only went in to effect in about 2002... what massive breakthroughs have taken place in satellite technology since then?

    And if there is nothing to lose why did the US demand its bitches in the EU still party to the agreement give them information they collect?


    Also, no the planes they are making do not frighten the shit out of us but hey you think what you want.

    They tried to ban their use, and complained that that level of technology in a plane was not "fair".


    LoL no we did not think that, we knew they were going to ditch it. It's common sense.

    No going back now.

    To quote the orange one:

    “So I think what’s going to happen is we’re going to pull out and they (the Russians) are going to come back and want to make a deal,” Trump said. He added: “I think something very positive will work.”

    But that is not going to happen now... they are withdrawing and not grovelling for a new deal like Trump hoped. Same with New START. Same with INF treaty.

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    kvs
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    Post  kvs Sat Jan 16, 2021 7:59 am

    So basically no real cases of non-compliance by Russia. And in fact, the US brazenly non-complied.

    Another example of NATzO expecting Russia to bend over and take it was the Conventional Forces in Europe treaty.
    Russia was supposed to abide by a treaty that NATzO never ratified and grossly violated. The CFE lost all meaning
    with the advance of NATzO eastward.



    SeigSoloyvov
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Sat Jan 16, 2021 9:16 am

    Keep up with the timesss, sates are much better now.

    Trump may have thought that but anyone who has dealt with matters like these before knew they wouldn't try and make a new deal.

    According to whom did we make the EU sign such papers?

    Oh Moscow? sorry but no, only a moron believes what a government says without any proof.

    The only proof of this claim is the Kremlin so.....yeah no that's not fact.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sat Jan 16, 2021 9:43 am

    Keep up with the timesss, sates are much better now.

    Are they?

    Then why has the US bothered the last 18 years being part of this charade?

    The only proof of this claim is the Kremlin so.....yeah no that's not fact.

    So this is a non story... just like the ABM treaty and the CFE agreement and the INF treaty... two out of three is not bad right?

    Russia does not really lose from this, it is the west that sees reds under every bed that will fester and believe the worst is happening without being able to confirm it is not.

    It was OS flights that proved Russian forces were not massing on the border with the Ukraine like some idiots were suggesting.... funny the satellites didn't notice that... but who cares... what is the Ukraine going to do even if there were Russian forces massing anywhere inside Russian borders... they can put them anywhere they please.
    kvs
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    Post  kvs Tue Jan 19, 2021 7:59 pm



    So the situation that prompted the yanquis to crap their pants over Open Skies was the advent of the Tu-214ON. It
    has the ability to squeeze maximal value out of the treaty allowed flights. In addition, for most of the last 30 years
    Russia did not have the resources to properly monitor the USA under this treaty. So when the treaty got real,
    the Amerislimes took their ball and ran home to mommy, screaming threats all the way.

    George1
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    Post  George1 Wed Jun 02, 2021 4:38 pm

    The United States decided not to return to the Open Skies Treaty

    https://en.topwar.ru/183452-ssha-prinjali-reshenie-ne-vozvraschatsja-v-dogovor-po-otkrytomu-nebu.html
    kvs
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    Post  kvs Wed Jun 02, 2021 7:22 pm

    George1 wrote:The United States decided not to return to the Open Skies Treaty

    https://en.topwar.ru/183452-ssha-prinjali-reshenie-ne-vozvraschatsja-v-dogovor-po-otkrytomu-nebu.html

    Their loss. The deciders in Washington (or more accurately their puppet masters) believe that the US can achieve the
    recon from LEO. These morons have no education or understanding of physics. They think the the Keyhole satellites
    back in the 1980s could listen in on every conversation in the USSR. Supremacists always set themselves up for failure
    because they degenerate into a pool of hubris and wishful thinking. Since they are automatically superior, they do not
    understand just how much they have to try to keep up with the "mud hut dwellers".

    SeigSoloyvov
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Wed Jun 02, 2021 9:02 pm

    George1 wrote:The United States decided not to return to the Open Skies Treaty

    https://en.topwar.ru/183452-ssha-prinjali-reshenie-ne-vozvraschatsja-v-dogovor-po-otkrytomu-nebu.html

    Was an outdated and useless treaty anyways.
    Hole
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    Post  Hole Wed Jun 02, 2021 10:06 pm

    The idea at the core of this treaty was not to gain data on the other side but building up of trust.

    Sponsored content

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