Militarov wrote:OminousSpudd wrote:OminousSpudd wrote:Since you seem to base most of your assumptions on Mars... You actually do not know if the Russians have an idea about the SM-6, you do not know whether they have a counter, and you do not know how effective the SM-6 is, and you do not know that it is unparalleled (you use these buzzwords frequently, that's bias, btw). This is reality, lets get a bit grounded eh? I know you're on an anti-bias crusade, and you're a pessimist, so rather unreliable, but you could at least try to use lateral thinking.KiloGolf wrote:Isos wrote:But in a 1 vs 1 battle, Buyan or more probably Karakurt for this scenario can win if it's correctly commanded.
You see that's not how the world works.
There's 63 ABs out there, 5 Buyan-M and 0 Karakurts in existence, right now.
Harsh numbers my friend. Even with no air cover those little corvettes will be eaten for lunch just by the organic Seahawks carried from FIIA onwards.Isos wrote:SM-6 can be jammed, in my opinion, easily by the big jammers of a ship. I've read somewhere that a F-111 elec warefar jammed F-22s equipement (radar and radar receivers), so the SM-6 is not that a problem.
Anything can be jammed eventually, but right now this missile is 100% unknown quantity to the Russians. It is among the most modern gucci kit the USN is receiving and its performance is just unparalleled and highly classified.
If we are to go from Patriot (including PAC-3) or THAAD, I would not at all be so sure. The US has only ever demonstrated mediocre ability at intercepting 60s-70s era BMs, let alone AShMs, modern BMs. This is a known fact, demonstrated frequently in the field by users of such systems, now we could take these prior experiences and project them onto recent products, or we could just take manufacturer's statements at face value (of course in doing that, you have to accept things like that the F-35 is amazing, and that the F-22 has an RCS of 0.000000000000000001m2, not really navigable territory in my book, although, your defense of projects such as the DDG1000 etc. suggest that you do). Meanwhile, Russia can intercept an Onyx fired from an unknown location (to the interceptors) and successfully wipe it out using joint sensor communication with ground based radars and 1990s MiG-31BMs. Just because the US churns out equipment around the clock does not mean they are superior, especially if much of their technology falls on deep-rooted issues that a top-heavy and corrupt MiC can not deal with.What? Sorry, I couldn't hear you over the noise of an American staffer talking about full-spectrum dominance. What you say maybe true on a person-to-person basis, and more applicable during the Soviet times, but today? I do not see it anywhere to the same extent as coming from the West. Hell, saying it is the best is part & parcel of selling the damn things now... That's on an official level, and not just for the export market, but to their own country. Show me the same happening from the Ru side. Anyway, I do not recall saying Russian projects never fail. Lets stay on topic shall we?Militarov wrote:Actually Russians are the ones always using that legendary "нет аналога в мире" phase. Same words were used to describe dozens of later miserably failed projects. So i wouldnt judge there so quickly.Militarov wrote:Its highly doubtful Russians have any deeper knowledge on SM-6, i agree on that one... i base that asumption on fact that certain figures on certain military forums are working in Ru MOD and use forums to gather interesting data on certain items. There is one of them being very active member on Keypublishing for an example.
You wouldn't know. The Americans wouldn't know. Welcome to being an observer from afar. Logically, being a "new" system, the SM-6 should be unknown, yes, but how often has that been the case throughout history?
This obsessive navel gazing, like we influence what happens in the field, I see it here quite a bit. Members of Ru MoD browsing forums for information to use as official data? And that's what you would base their intel level on a weapons system off of? Come off it. Intel gathering is far more sophisticated than simply jumping on forums and reading about the latest hardware, the point is to be ahead of the curve, not read about it in the local paper over a morning coffee. We're not important, and the info discussed is only what we can see provided by official releases, which would have been read ten times over by proper staff already. To think that anything said here makes any difference at all, other than to the average joe, is incredibly detached from reality. If that was the case, I'd be seriously concerned about people posting deployment locations and numbers as we have in some of the threads here, and ex-service members would be being hauled up left right and center for leaking classified information.
Any useful bit of information could be useless information, imagine how simple it would be to spread disinformation if everyone was browsing everyone else's forum so as to devise the next strategy, weapon, battle.That's the point though, isn't it? I can say that Russia can destroy supersonic missiles and that they are unparalleled because some tests say they are... Or you could say the SM-6 is unparalleled because a bunch of tests say it is.Militarov wrote:Also you are doing same you accuse him of doing. Russians can do this or that... sure, with what % of repetitive success? We shot down F-16 in 1999. we couldnt repeat it. They jammed the shit out of us we couldnt listen to local radio.
... Or we could, idk, use a little bit of lateral thinking and compare history.
Actually yes, i have seen more than one Russian military manuals that are 100% made of data taken from Wikipedia, and no i am not joking. M1A1 Abrams manual i saw made by RuMOD was 100/100 translated Wikipedia article about it.
So ye, there is no really Russian James Bond hanging on elastic cables in some hangar in Area 51 spying on SM-6.
However they are not interested in tell-told things on the forums, they are interested in scans of the manuals, pictures, graphs... alot of which sooner or later appears on forums. That is giving less results, but costs almost nothing in terms of obtaining.
You are aware that is how we in Serbia knew when US aircraft were taking off the Aviano? Via one italian aircraft spotter forum. Real life is not James Bond shit... get used to it.
the point he is making, which I agree with, is that the US may not know either of Yakhonts or any of the systems. And he is also correct that the US missile defense systems, which their missiles fly very fast, have a shifty success rate at shooting down scuds yet will work against fast moving targets? Nah. As well, even if they managed to get a copy of said missile, much like electronics of MiG-31 was changed, so it can be done at MUCH cheaper for Onyx.