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    BMD-4M and BTR-MD Rakushka:

    Hole
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    Post  Hole Tue Sep 14, 2021 1:24 pm

    BMD-4M and BTR-MD Rakushka: - Page 12 E_m9xq10
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    BMD-4M and BTR-MD Rakushka: - Page 12 E_m94u10

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    Post  Russian_Patriot_ Sat Sep 18, 2021 2:40 pm

    BMD-4M and BTR-MD Rakushka: - Page 12 Amlcwx10

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    Post  Podlodka77 Wed Oct 19, 2022 8:54 am

    October 19, 08:36
    Military operation in Ukraine
    TASS

    Rostec announced the supply of the BTR-MDM "Rakushka" for use during the SMO


    As noted in the state corporation, "in order for Russian soldiers to have equipment, weapons, equipment and ammunition at the front, Rostec factories work in several shifts"

    MOSCOW, 19 October. /TASS/. Enterprises of the holding "High-precision complexes" of the state corporation "Rostec" regularly supply the troops for participation in a special military operation (SVO) armored personnel carriers BTR-MDM "Rakushka", as well as a number of other armored vehicles. This was reported on Wednesday in the Telegram channel of the state corporation.

    "The SMO is a matter not only for the military, but also for the domestic defense industry. In order for Russian soldiers to have equipment, weapons, equipment and ammunition at the front, Rostec factories work in several shifts. Echelons with Proryv tanks are regularly sent to the army, Self-propelled guns "Malka", howitzers "Msta-S" from UVZ. The troops receive BMP-3, BMP-4M, BTR-MDM from "High-precision systems". And much more from enterprises from all over the country," the report says.

    BTR-MDM "Rakushka" is a Russian airborne armored personnel carrier, created at the Volgograd Tractor Plant. The machine has a mass of 13.2 tons and is armed with two machine guns. The crew consists of two people, and the number of landing soldiers reaches 13 people. "Rakushka" is intended for the transportation of personnel (landing), ammunition, spare parts, fuel and lubricants in the units of the Airborne Forces and the Marine Corps.

    https://tass.ru/ekonomika/16093445



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    Post  limb Sun Jul 02, 2023 11:43 am

    WHats the point of BMDs when the VDV are now frontline troops? What does the BMD-4 offer that the BMP-3M doesnt? Doing airdrops is suicide.
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    Post  GarryB Sun Jul 02, 2023 2:06 pm

    WHats the point of BMDs when the VDV are now frontline troops? What does the BMD-4 offer that the BMP-3M doesnt? Doing airdrops is suicide.

    Such a comment can be better directed to western airborne troops that don't have air dropped armour.

    A british or american force dropped by parachute behind enemy lines is a very weak force with poor mobilty... they have nothing like the BMD to support their operations.

    That means if they have to take an airfield or other target deep behind enemy lines they have to land relatively close to the target because their mobility is not great and they would be horribly vulnerable in any attack on any Warsaw Pact airfield or target even deep behind enemy lines because at the very least the enemy will have BTR level vehicles with 14.5mm HMGs that would shred any vehicle western airborne units operate in.

    In comparison the VDV drop with armour so you can drop them 50-100km away from the target in the middle of nowhere... they land and mount up their vehicles and drive to the objective... BMDs would cover decent distances rather quickly... only a very stupid enemy would have their own deep rear areas mined because that would make logistics impossible for their own forces and cause civilian casualties.

    The VDV force can then drive in BMDs to the enemy airfield and attack it... an enemy airfield will likely have air defence but not much else except probably a few M113s and a few squads of troops... a VDV force with BMD-4s with 100mm rifled guns and 30mm cannon as well as vehicles with Kornet and 120mm mortar armed vehicles would walk all over any troops at that airfield... remember the VDV landed 50-100km away so the enemy might have detected the landing but have no idea what the target might have been... by the time they work out what they are doing the VDV will be in control of the air field and be landing reinforcements by aircraft which of course can include much heavier vehicles to secure the area and perhaps lead to an attack on a nearby facility deep in the enemies rear... perhaps a landing at a nearby coast could lead to naval infantry forces joining up with VDV forces and landed ground forces to take something bigger nearby...

    The point is that the BMD offers mobility and speed and firepower and while it might lack heavy armour it wont be used on the front line against enemy armour, it will be used as a mobile reserve or roaming around in the enemies rear smashing supply lines and blowing shit up... meaning the enemy will have to send forces from other places to deal with them.

    VDV deep behind enemy lines could call in air support or long range artillery or drone attacks to cause some real damage and confusion in the enemies rear areas.

    Without the BMD you would have to drop much closer to your target which might have air defences making an airdrop rather dangerous...

    But then a fake air drop of dummies could be used as a distraction to test enemy air defences anyway.

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    Post  GunshipDemocracy Sun Jul 02, 2023 2:50 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    WHats the point of BMDs when the VDV are now frontline troops? What does the BMD-4 offer that the BMP-3M doesnt? Doing airdrops is suicide.

    Such a comment can be better directed to western airborne troops that don't have air dropped armour.

    True all that but IMHO limb's question was referring to why now VDV uses BMD not BMP-3M.

    @limb - well they use BMD simply because VDV was send there to get experience too and BMD is their vehicle. Otherwise you would need to reequip eventfully retrain troops and not use them.
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    Post  GarryB Mon Jul 03, 2023 2:20 am

    Ironically his comment of doing air drops being suicide... it would be with BMP-3Ms... they are too heavy.

    When the Soviet Union was in Afghanistan in the 1980s the VDV swapped their BMD-1 and 2 vehicles for better armed and equipped BMP-2Ms, but I am not so sure the BMD-4M is a lot worse than the BMP-3M... obviously there is a weight difference, but there is also a power to weight difference too which is in favour of the airborne vehicle and the electronics and equipment on the BMD-4M should be pretty good in comparison.
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy Mon Jul 03, 2023 11:48 am

    GarryB wrote:Ironically his comment of doing air drops being suicide... it would be with BMP-3Ms... they are too heavy.


    airdropping VDV in places with strong AAD is suicidal, but who ever said this was planned this way? looks like limb is a man who can find a problem for every solution  lol1  lol1  lol1



    GB wrote: When the Soviet Union was in Afghanistan in the 1980s the VDV swapped their BMD-1 and 2 vehicles for better armed and equipped BMP-2Ms, but I am not so sure the BMD-4M is a lot worse than the BMP-3M... obviously there is a weight difference, but there is also a power to weight difference too which is in favour of the airborne vehicle and the electronics and equipment on the BMD-4M should be pretty good in comparison.

    IMHO when BMD is lighter then armor is thinner ...anyway BMD or BMP are not to fight on the battlefield with high saturation of Carl Gustav or RPGs. Transporting troops or long distance fire support.

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    Post  lancelot Mon Jul 03, 2023 12:30 pm

    They basically took out one roadwheel from the BMP-3 and made it shorter. Et voila here you have a BMD-4M.
    The BMD-4M should have roughly the same armor protection. It is just that because the vehicle is smaller it can carry two infantrymen less. 5 vs 7.

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    Post  GarryB Mon Jul 03, 2023 12:58 pm

    airdropping VDV in places with strong AAD is suicidal, but who ever said this was planned this way? looks like limb is a man who can find a problem for every solution  

    It is the fully mechanised nature of the VDV which allows to be dropped in locations well away from enemy air defences that makes landings possible and the BMD is a core part of that... looking forward to new models with the 57mm gun mounts with either the grenade launcher or s-60 guns...

    IMHO when BMD is lighter then armor is thinner ...anyway BMD or BMP are not to fight on the battlefield with high saturation of Carl Gustav or RPGs. Transporting troops or long distance fire support.

    They deliver infantry who do the fighting with the BMDs retiring to a position where they can use their optics to find targets and engage them as their troops advance.

    The combination of 100mm direct fire HE rounds and 30mm auto cannon and 30mm grenade launchers is devastating.

    It is the 21st C, there are not going to be many battlefields with no RPG or CGs or land mines or ATGMs...

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    Post  limb Tue Jul 04, 2023 9:44 pm

    It is the fully mechanised nature of the VDV which allows to be dropped in locations well away from enemy air defences that makes landings possible and the BMD is a core part of that

    In the SMO the VDV has ABSOLUTELY NEVER BEEN AIRDROPPED BY IL-76s, for very good reason. Theyere ONLY used as frontline troops.

    MHO when BMD is lighter then armor is thinner ...anyway BMD or BMP are not to fight on the battlefield with high saturation of Carl Gustav or RPGs. Transporting troops or long distance fire support.

    And yet they are doing just that, risking unnecessary losses, which could be mitigated by giving the VDV BMP-3s. the VDV divisions in the ukraine get MBTs FFS

    well they use BMD simply because VDV was send there to get experience too and BMD is their vehicle. Otherwise you would need to reequip eventfully retrain troops and not use them.
    These are elite troops that are less replaceable, using more vulnerable IFVs in an ATGM and artillery heavy environment. If "thats just their vehicle", why do VDV get T-90s, mstas, etc but not BMP-3s?

    The BMD-4M should have roughly the same armor protection. It is just that because the vehicle is smaller it can carry two infantrymen less. 5 vs 7.
    It doesnt. It has a weaker aluminium alloy, while the BMP-3 gets a spaced armor array of both RHA and aluminiun.
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    Post  GarryB Wed Jul 05, 2023 6:15 am


    In the SMO the VDV has ABSOLUTELY NEVER BEEN AIRDROPPED BY IL-76s, for very good reason. Theyere ONLY used as frontline troops.

    They have never used ICBMs or SLBMs either, I suppose they are a waste of time too?

    Unlike ICBMs and SLBMs the VDV and their armour can be used in a range of different ways, many of which remain very useful.


    And yet they are doing just that, risking unnecessary losses, which could be mitigated by giving the VDV BMP-3s. the VDV divisions in the ukraine get MBTs FFS

    The threats they face in the Ukraine I would suggest the level of protection on a BMD-4M is probably not a huge amount different from the protection provided by a BMP-3M, the main difference in weight is because the BMD is smaller.

    These are elite troops that are less replaceable, using more vulnerable IFVs in an ATGM and artillery heavy environment. If "thats just their vehicle", why do VDV get T-90s, mstas, etc but not BMP-3s?


    Possibly because the protection level increase a BMP-3M provides is not deemed relevant, while they have experience and training with the BMD4 under their belts.

    It doesnt. It has a weaker aluminium alloy, while the BMP-3 gets a spaced armor array of both RHA and aluminiun.

    I would suggest the BMD-4 most likely does have spaced armour because it does not add a weight penalty, and most smaller vehicles use aluminium armour because for the same weight it is thicker and stronger.

    For very light vehicles like the BRDM-2 having a 5mm steel armour plate runs risks... using the equivalent weight of Aluminium... say 10-12mm of aluminium is more rigid structurally even if it offers only similar armour protection or slightly less the thicker metal is actually better overall.

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    Post  T-47 Mon Sep 11, 2023 12:21 pm

    BMD-4M and BTR-MD Rakushka: - Page 12 F5vkep10

    This thing popped up on internet.

    Sauce: https://twitter.com/dontbecringey/status/1701175468706447774?s=20

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    Post  Hole Mon Dec 04, 2023 12:53 pm

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    Post  GarryB Tue Dec 05, 2023 4:26 am

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    Post  Hole Sun Feb 11, 2024 11:50 am

    BMD-4M and BTR-MD Rakushka: - Page 12 Screen67
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    BTR-MDM with full cage armor package

    BMD-4M and BTR-MD Rakushka: - Page 12 Screen69
    The cage is not only Anti-Drone. Can be used to launc drones, too.  Very Happy

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